Who is the best player in the GMC?

[Former Lurker]

I don't usually check out this forum, but I'm wondering...

1. Who are the best players in the GMC and GCL?

2. Is Mick recruiting them?

3. Who else is recruiting them?

Thanks in advance for any info!

[GoBearcats31]

http://gmcsports.com/bkStatistics.aspx?sat=14&div=1
http://gclsports.com/bkStatistics.aspx?sat=14&div=-1

Don't see high major D1 talent here, unless any of the studs in the conferences are freshmen or sophomores

[catsfan32]

Jaaron Simmons from Kettering Alter is getting some looks from major D1 schools. He is only a sophomore but leads the GCL in points. He has only been held to under 10 points 2x this year and has pretty good size for a PG, about 6'1. I have personally seen him play 3 times and he is pretty good, but has a way to go before I consider him a high major recruit

[Former Lurker]

Jaaron Simmons from Kettering Alter is getting some looks from major D1 schools. He is only a sophomore but leads the GCL in points. He has only been held to under 10 points 2x this year and has pretty good size for a PG, about 6'1. I have personally seen him play 3 times and he is pretty good, but has a way to go before I consider him a high major recruit

Lots of very solid players from Alter through the years. Mick needs to try recruiting some local kids, IMHO. There's only one place that the best players in Cincinnati/Dayton can stay local & still play BE basketball, and it's not IU, UK, OSU, UD, or X.

As far as I can tell, Mick hasn't played that angle since he signed Yancey.

[levydl]

Lots of very solid players from Alter through the years. Mick needs to try recruiting some local kids, IMHO. There's only one place that the best players in Cincinnati/Dayton can stay local & still play BE basketball, and it's not IU, UK, OSU, UD, or X.

As far as I can tell, Mick hasn't played that angle since he signed Yancey.

Cronin had the McElroy kid and Chane Behanan locked up but ended up with neither, for different reasons. Siebert from Princeton went to OSU - he would have been nice, not sure how hard UC recruited him. McKenzie from Moeller is at XU but rarely plays. Who else? Not really too many BE players around here recently.

[shaunsimpson]

McElroy didn't develop into a big east talent. He is averaging 4 and 3 as a sophomore for BGSU. Too many people got into Shane's ear.

Of the 2011 class the only one player would have liked to see is Aaron Thomas from Withrow. No other kid was really a big East talent in the southern part of the state. Next year is Hawkins from Dayton and he has a Cincinnati offer, but we have not done well with Ohio Red in the past. Semaj Christon is the only other name out there that I have heard of and I know Brian Snow on Rivals is a big fan of his, but don't know about him qualifying or interest.

[catsfan32]

Cincinnati metro has a ton of kids that are being evaluated. Devin Williams (Taft), Josh Davenport (Moeller), Semaj Christian (Winton Woods), kid at Middletown that slips my name, DJ Wingfield Jr., Johnson Jr (PG somewhere in cincy)... There are also a handful of kids in Dayton that the staff has shown interest in, and evaluated/brought to games on several occasions, specifically: Maverick Morgan at Springoro (6'10" 2013), Deonte Hawkins of Dayton Dunbar (6'7" 2012) and Simmons of Kettering Alter (6'1" 2013).

To say that the staff is not evaluating the locals and SW Ohio is falsehood. Let's be honest. Not every kid can play in the BE, and it is rare to make a BE caliber team from one city (unless NY, Philly, etc.), and even that doesn't happen.

These are names off the top of my head.

[Former Lurker]

To say that the staff is not evaluating the locals and SW Ohio is falsehood. Let's be honest. Not every kid can play in the BE, and it is rare to make a BE caliber team from one city (unless NY, Philly, etc.), and even that doesn't happen.

These are names off the top of my head.

I can't say that Cronin doesn't recruit this area enough. I don't know that to be true. But I do notice fewer local guys on the roster now than under some prior coaches.

No Big East talent here? Maybe...but it seems that other programs find their share of talent in these parts. That's why I asked, of the top players in the area, who is recruiting them, if not Mick? I saw where that player last year signed with OSU. How hard did Mick push to land him? It seems like most kids who think they're the next Jordan would rather play in the BE than B10, kinda the opposite of the effect we've got to fight in football.

I agree that you can't put together a big-time program just from the Cincinnati-Dayton area. On the other hand, you can get a nice core, to which you then add a couple of NBA-types for which you've scoured the nation and/or world, to get a team that can run deep into the tournament.

I guess with Cronin I just have the gut feeling that he's too much about hype and recruiting "stars" than finding fundamentally sound players. If Ron Harper or Wally Szczerbiak came along today, would Cronin recruit them, or would he turn up his nose and say they're "just MAC players?" How is it that you have a team whose "best" player shoots 48 freaking % from the FT line?

I don't mean to rant, but there's something fundamentally wrong with the process of fan identification vis-a-vis this program. The record is decent this year, but the fans are mostly down on the program, and staying away from the Shoe. You can only blame the Huggs firing for so long. I'm still searching for answers, but a lot of the criticism revolves around players with low BB IQ and low motivation. A bit more local flavor might help people warm up to the program.

[BearcatAlum1]

^ Interesting.

If Wally or Ron came around, I'm sure that most would think they're MAC players. They didn't have it out of HS and transformed into NBA players. Hardwork and dedication, no doubt. There is a reason both went to Miami OH, and not Cincy, Ohio State, UK, etc. Neither is a good/great athlete, so they fall under the radar. That's recruiting and life.

The comment about 5/3 getting fans is a different matter. Fans remember Huggs and teams that dominated CUSA. 14-2, 13-3 in CUSA was expected. Now, 11-7 in the BE is a very good record.

It's all relative, but objectvity shows we've done well, all things considering. Hopefully we build off the Ville win and make the NCAA.

[levydl]

I can't say that Cronin doesn't recruit this area enough. I don't know that to be true. But I do notice fewer local guys on the roster now than under some prior coaches.

No Big East talent here? Maybe...but it seems that other programs find their share of talent in these parts. That's why I asked, of the top players in the area, who is recruiting them, if not Mick? I saw where that player last year signed with OSU. How hard did Mick push to land him? It seems like most kids who think they're the next Jordan would rather play in the BE than B10, kinda the opposite of the effect we've got to fight in football.

I agree that you can't put together a big-time program just from the Cincinnati-Dayton area. On the other hand, you can get a nice core, to which you then add a couple of NBA-types for which you've scoured the nation and/or world, to get a team that can run deep into the tournament.

I guess with Cronin I just have the gut feeling that he's too much about hype and recruiting "stars" than finding fundamentally sound players. If Ron Harper or Wally Szczerbiak came along today, would Cronin recruit them, or would he turn up his nose and say they're "just MAC players?" How is it that you have a team whose "best" player shoots 48 freaking % from the FT line?

I don't mean to rant, but there's something fundamentally wrong with the process of fan identification vis-a-vis this program. The record is decent this year, but the fans are mostly down on the program, and staying away from the Shoe. You can only blame the Huggs firing for so long. I'm still searching for answers, but a lot of the criticism revolves around players with low BB IQ and low motivation. A bit more local flavor might help people warm up to the program.

You really think Cronin looks at Rivals for his recruiting and sees how many stars a guy has? LOL.

[shaunsimpson]

The problem is that many focus on the high school, but in basketball it is often the AAU team that has more influence. Their AAU coaches influence where they go a lot. Look at Ohio Red. Almost their entire team is at OSU and very few have every came to UC. This is one of and has been the best AAU team in the program.

And the Mick only recruits stars is a joke. Killpatrick looks to have the most raw talent on this team and he was a 3 star.

You can complain about recruiting all you want, but what is Mick's selling point right now? Until he wins consistently then it is going to be finding kids who fit the system.

[GoBearcats31]

The problem is that many focus on the high school, but in basketball it is often the AAU team that has more influence. Their AAU coaches influence where they go a lot. Look at Ohio Red. Almost their entire team is at OSU and very few have every came to UC. This is one of and has been the best AAU team in the program.

And the Mick only recruits stars is a joke. Killpatrick looks to have the most raw talent on this team and he was a 3 star.

You can complain about recruiting all you want, but what is Mick's selling point right now? Until he wins consistently then it is going to be finding kids who fit the system.

AAU basketball is definitely more important, though the high school season is a coach's chance to see them play in a better team environment (and make an impression on the kid by showing up for a game or practice).

I've never had much issue with getting a lot of 3 stars. I think guys like SK can be likened to Mike Zimmer's Bengals D in 2009. Those guys were people that others passed up on and weren't give a chance. Kilpatrick and hopefully the likes of UC's less-heralded 2010 guys (Davis, Guyn, Ellis) can be guys that shine, despite being overlooked by a lot of great programs. Guyn dropped off the map a couple years back, while Davis fell from a Top 50/60 recruit to a solid 3-star in the last year.

[Former Lurker]

And the Mick only recruits stars is a joke. Killpatrick looks to have the most raw talent on this team and he was a 3 star.

You can say that, but I see very little evidence that he thinks "outside the box" when recruiting.

You can complain about recruiting all you want, but what is Mick's selling point right now? Until he wins consistently then it is going to be finding kids who fit the system.

Mick's selling point for now is that he's got the only BE program in Ohio, and not a bottom-dweller, at that. If a kid wants to play BE basketball, and stay close enough to home for parents and friends to get to games without a plane ticket or hotel room, there's not much competition. I don't mean to cast any aspersions, but I think that the basketball BE has just that little extra bit of cachet over the B10 or SEC. (The reverse is true in FB.)

It will help recruiting if he can be seen to put some guys in the NBA, but that hasn't happened yet. Perhaps in time.

[icehole3]

Ive seen a lot of AAU bball and Ive seen Taft play 3 times this yr, Ive also seen the pre-season prep all star game, Thomas (Withrow) saw him twice, super fast 6-6 guard with decent handle, Taft has 2 legit players Washington 6-5 center, power player good post moves, reminds me of Hicks, Orlando Berry 5-6 point guard fastest kid Ive seen yet, he's the reason Taft's were theyre at. Withrow has a 6-7 big man Devin Williams who is pretty active and they also have a kid I think he's a freshman or soph who's a legit 6-9 maybe 6-10 and can play, will be the talk of the town by the time he's a senior, Mick has to be all over this kid.

[levydl]

You can say that, but I see very little evidence that he thinks "outside the box" when recruiting.

Mick's selling point for now is that he's got the only BE program in Ohio, and not a bottom-dweller, at that. If a kid wants to play BE basketball, and stay close enough to home for parents and friends to get to games without a plane ticket or hotel room, there's not much competition. I don't mean to cast any aspersions, but I think that the basketball BE has just that little extra bit of cachet over the B10 or SEC. (The reverse is true in FB.)

It will help recruiting if he can be seen to put some guys in the NBA, but that hasn't happened yet. Perhaps in time.

Lance was drafted and is on a team (I think he still is anyway).

You're overselling the only Ohio team in the Big East.

OSU has the biggest athletic budget in the country (or close to). The entire school caters to athletes. It's huge and bball players are treated like rockstars. And it's not like they're a mid-major. Plus, Cincinnati is kind of it's own little spot in the corner of Ohio. OSU is huge throughout the rest of the state. Look at the guys from Ohio they have signed under Matta, they're all from central or northern OH: Mullens, Lauderdale, Sullinger, Koufas, Diebler, Weatherspoon, Craft, Buford, Lighty. The only ones I can think of that aren't are Sibert from Cincy and Dequan Cook from Dayton (who played AAU ball with Conley and Oden). UC pulled a few from Cleveland over the years - Logan, Levett, and Patterson (via JV), but Cincinnati doesn't have nearly the cache up there that OSU does. To say there's not much competition is ridiculous.

[Former Lurker]

Lance was drafted and is on a team (I think he still is anyway).

He's listed on the Pacers' roster on their website, but hasn't appeared in a regular season game. More importantly, he was only here a year, and is not seen as a player the coaching staff developed into NBA talent like Fortson or Martin.

OSU has the biggest athletic budget in the country (or close to). The entire school caters to athletes. It's huge and bball players are treated like rockstars. And it's not like they're a mid-major. Plus, Cincinnati is kind of it's own little spot in the corner of Ohio. OSU is huge throughout the rest of the state. Look at the guys from Ohio they have signed under Matta, they're all from central or northern OH: Mullens, Lauderdale, Sullinger, Koufas, Diebler, Weatherspoon, Craft, Buford, Lighty. The only ones I can think of that aren't are Sibert from Cincy and Dequan Cook from Dayton (who played AAU ball with Conley and Oden). UC pulled a few from Cleveland over the years - Logan, Levett, and Patterson (via JV), but Cincinnati doesn't have nearly the cache up there that OSU does. To say there's not much competition is ridiculous.

I said there's not much competition from other BE teams, not from other conferences' teams; you're bashing a straw man. Shaunsimpson asked what Mick's selling point is, and I responded with the obvious answer. If you don't agree, why don't you offer your own answer?

If Matta has central and northern Ohio locked-up; that's all the more reason for Mick to work Cincy, including NKy. Sure, OSU has a bigger profile than us in Cols. & Cle., but you didn't argue with my assertion that the BE has a bigger profile than the B10. There are always going to be kids whose dream it is to play for OSU or Indiana, but there are others who look forward to playing in MSG in front of the national media, and for whom trying to notch victories over GTown and UConn, etc., is a bigger deal than the prospect of playing Minnesota and Iowa.

[GoBearcats31]

Mike Dyer (Enquirer): Winton Woods senior point guard Semaj Christon being recruited by UC, West Virginia, Iowa and others, says WW coach Donnie Gillespie

[levydl]

He's listed on the Pacers' roster on their website, but hasn't appeared in a regular season game. More importantly, he was only here a year, and is not seen as a player the coaching staff developed into NBA talent like Fortson or Martin.

I said there's not much competition from other BE teams, not from other conferences' teams; you're bashing a straw man. Shaunsimpson asked what Mick's selling point is, and I responded with the obvious answer. If you don't agree, why don't you offer your own answer?

If Matta has central and northern Ohio locked-up; that's all the more reason for Mick to work Cincy, including NKy. Sure, OSU has a bigger profile than us in Cols. & Cle., but you didn't argue with my assertion that the BE has a bigger profile than the B10. There are always going to be kids whose dream it is to play for OSU or Indiana, but there are others who look forward to playing in MSG in front of the national media, and for whom trying to notch victories over GTown and UConn, etc., is a bigger deal than the prospect of playing Minnesota and Iowa.

What's the difference where the competition comes from?

You're right, if the kid's parameters are: (1) Big East school, (2) in Ohio, then Cronin should be able to lock him up. Isn't it crazy that it doesn't work that way? Who are the Big East players from Ohio? As far as I can tell, Yancy and Cam Thoroughman from WVU are the only ones, oh, and some freshman at Pitt who hasn't played in a game. OSU has more in their starting lineup. It appears that Ohio kids don't value playing in the Big East over a bunch of other considerations. Where are these kids that you speak of?

I don't think any Big East team - not Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, U of L - has more cache and name recognition for kids in Ohio than OSU. Even they have to fight it out with Mich. St. for northern Ohio kids.

I agree that Cronin should lock up Cincinnati. I pointed out how few Big East caliber players there have been from Cincinnati in his tenure. He got Yancy. He passed on McElroy after getting him. He had and lost Behanan. And I don't know what he did with Sibert. Who are all these kids from Cincy he's missing on?

[shaunsimpson]

Lance was drafted and is on a team (I think he still is anyway).

You're overselling the only Ohio team in the Big East.

OSU has the biggest athletic budget in the country (or close to). The entire school caters to athletes. It's huge and bball players are treated like rockstars. And it's not like they're a mid-major. Plus, Cincinnati is kind of it's own little spot in the corner of Ohio. OSU is huge throughout the rest of the state. Look at the guys from Ohio they have signed under Matta, they're all from central or northern OH: Mullens, Lauderdale, Sullinger, Koufas, Diebler, Weatherspoon, Craft, Buford, Lighty. The only ones I can think of that aren't are Sibert from Cincy and Dequan Cook from Dayton (who played AAU ball with Conley and Oden). UC pulled a few from Cleveland over the years - Logan, Levett, and Patterson (via JV), but Cincinnati doesn't have nearly the cache up there that OSU does. To say there's not much competition is ridiculous.

Way overselling the only Big East team in Ohio considering a good part of the state is as close to Pitt or WVU as Cincinnati.