how many years are you going to give mick?

[bearcatfan93]

i give him untill 09-10 season and we beter be in the tourney or i will not be a happy camper

[Bp4thebest]

that year will be the year he has the talent to make the tourney easy.. if he doesnt coach them well enough to get that team to the tourney ill never be convinced that he will win a championship... i expect that team to be ranked and a top 6 seed and make a run in the tourney

[DMoney_70]

The '09-'10 season will be the first season that this team will have a truly full roster of Mick's talent. What I can't believe is that 4 games into this season, with undertalented seniors (not Mick's fault), 1 injured junior (also the projected star), 1 sophmore and the rest freshmen and some of you folks want to put time tables on this guy?

The reality of the situation is that this program was gutted and put at least 3 years behind schedule to return to competitiveness. You're just going to have to be patient. There's not a better guy out there for this job that would even consider it than Mick Cronin.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

i give him untill 09-10 season and we beter be in the tourney or i will not be a happy camper

As many as it takes. 5 years, 7 years, whatever.

[jplog]

I think the '09-'10 year is fair. I also bet that he gets past the second round.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I think the '09-'10 year is fair. I also bet that he gets past the second round.

He's never won an NCAA game in his career yet. (0-2 at Murray State) On what do you base your Get Past The Second Round prediction???

[cincycat1]

Mick gets a pass for atleast the first 3 years. After that he will have his guys, running his system and i expect to be back in the tournament.

[BigCat911]

Mick gets a pass for atleast the first 3 years. After that he will have his guys, running his system and i expect to be back in the tournament.
3 to 5 years.....whatever it takes! I agree with the earlier post "who would have took over the program the way it was dismantled" we are damn lucky to have Mick!!!

[jplog]

He's never won an NCAA game in his career yet. (0-2 at Murray State) On what do you base your Get Past The Second Round prediction???

Because his last name isn't Huggins.

[ralph1950]

As many years as it takes.

[ralph1950]

It took Dean Smith 21 years to win a NCAA Tourney at North Carolina. Mick should get at least the same.

[james jr]

i give him untill 09-10 season and we beter be in the tourney or i will not be a happy camper

I think 09-10 is a good barometer. However, I would like to see steady improvement until then. Like say at least 15-15 this year and 18-12 next year! GO CATS!!!!!

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Because his last name isn't Huggins.

That coach made 1 FF, 2 more E8, and 1 more S16 among 20 W in NCAA.

20-14 or 0-2. Hmm.

[bearcatfan93]

That coach made 1 FF, 2 more E8, and 1 more S16 among 20 W in NCAA.

20-14 or 0-2. Hmm.
im just sayin i love mick cronin but if he cant have a winning season in 3 or so years im not gonna support him at all

[jeffto]

im just sayin i love mick cronin but if he cant have a winning season in 3 or so years im not gonna support him at all

I predict you'll still be supporting him 10 years from now!

Not only that we'll put memories of our former great coaches (Wiethe, Smith, Jucker, etc.) in a hallowed place in our minds, but Mick will come to define UC basketball for a long time to come.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I predict you'll still be supporting him 10 years from now!

Not only that we'll put memories of our former great coaches (Wiethe, Smith, Jucker, etc.) in a hallowed place in our minds, but Mick will come to define UC basketball for a long time to come.

UC coaches have rarely lasted 10 years. Not Wiethe, not Smith, not Jucker, not Baker, not Catlett, not Badger, not Yates.

Only 1 coach has lasted 10+ years in modern UC history.

[Bearcat82]

As many as he wants...we're lucky to have Mick

[Deaf_Bearcat]

It took Dean Smith 21 years to win a NCAA Tourney at North Carolina. Mick should get at least the same.

This is true. However, I believe it took him a few years to send his team to his first NCAA tourney.

Not counting Mick's last season because of UC's major rebuilding season, I am giving him 3 years to send UC back to the NCAA tourney. Otherwise, we could chant "Please get a new coach!".

[jeffto]

UC coaches have rarely lasted 10 years. Not Wiethe, not Smith, not Jucker, not Baker, not Catlett, not Badger, not Yates.

My glass is half full.

[mlb]

As many as he wants...we're lucky to have Mick

Wow, you are easy to please. I wish I had you as a boss or client... it wouldn't matter how I perform on the job.

[MikeInClifton]

It took Dean Smith 21 years to win a NCAA Tourney at North Carolina. Mick should get at least the same.

Boeheim (30), Tark (21), Lute (24) and Calhoun (27) took their time too.

I think Mick should be given until his current freshmen are seniors.

[TheDog]

Due to Cronin's reputation as a recruiter, he should have the talent to compete by the time Vaughn is a senior. If not, then I would question his ability to coach, which I am definitely not sold on at this point.

[schottjy]

As many as he wants...we're lucky to have Mick

Really? Lucky to have him? Wow. I guess we outbid the other major universities when we stole him away from his illustrious position at Murray State.

Not to knock Mick, but your groveling makes it sound like we're a mid-major school who has to get lucky/keep to have a coach. We've been a perennial top 25 team with a
history of success.

I'll give Mick this season to prove he can coach (note coach != win) and another 2 or 3 till his recruiting efforts can bear some fruit before making a real decision.

[mlb]

Mick doesn't have to win a national title any time soon, but he has to make UC a national contender again within the next 3 to 4 years.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

My glass is half full.

I don't know about your glass but something is (half full).

The only modern era UC coach to stay 10+ years is the one we can't talk about. And he stayed longer than he (maybe) should have.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Boeheim (30), Tark (21), Lute (24) and Calhoun (27) took their time too.

I think Mick should be given until his current freshmen are seniors.

That's the first time I've ever seen MC mentioned with Dean Smith, Tark, Lute, Boeheim, and Calhoun. Pretty good company.

Mick will get at least 7 years, probably more to produce a high caliber UC program.

[Cats4Ever]

I hate to keep comparing the situations, but Kelly brought in a new QB, and some new WR's, and he has a record win year.

Cronin has his second year players in, and they haven't improved from last year, despite only losing McGowan. They need to get a whole lot better.

But it was a struggle to win.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I hate to keep comparing the situations, but Kelly brought in a new QB, and some new WR's, and he has a record win year.

Cronin has his second year players in, and they haven't improved from last year, despite only losing McGowan. They need to get a whole lot better.

But it was a struggle to win.

To compare these two situations is ridiculous!!! The football team is loaded with experience across the board. They are not solely relying on freshmen. The basketball team is a patchwork team with players that have 1 or less year of experience and the seniors are juco players that were leftovers. That is not a shot at the players that is reality. It is amazing that there are so many people out here that have zero understanding of this programs circumstance. They lost their best player, have a post guy that hasn't played competitively in two years, their best on the ball defender and only true point guard is out, have 5 freshmen, and 1 first year guy on the floor, and 99% of their experience comes from players that were leftover in the recruiting wars. It is a miracle we were able to put a team on the court at all last season. There was a reason these players weren't signed when Mick got them. Their potential was limited so their growth is limited!!! Give Mick at least 2 full legitimate recruiting classes before you judge him. There is not one college basketball coach that is dealing with what our coach has to overcome. Look at Baylor as a similar situation and the struggles they have gone thru to get back to a competitive level. IT TAKES TIME!!!!!!!!!

[Bearcat-in-Italy]

Here's my thought process:

Year 1 06/07 - Can't even count it. He had zero opportunity to recruit and had to grab whatever he could. We were probably lucky to get as many wins as we did last year.

Year 2 07/08- Gimme a break. The program's reputation is completely damaged, and Mick has to try to rebuild everything, reputation, recruiting caliber, etc. "His guys" are freshman. Another 18 loss year.

Year 3 08/09 - Need to see some improvement in recruiting and on the court performance - hope for a .500 season.

Year 4 09/10 - Now his first first "real" recruiting class are Juniors, need to be >.500 and make the NIT

Year 5 10/11 - This is the year you need to see a solid winning season and NCAA appearance - 2nd round would be nice. If we are in Year 5 and we are not in the tourney, not competing day in and day out, and not winning more than 18 games...that's a real problem.

Year 6 11/12 - if year 5 is less than expected, this is a put up or shut up year. If not 19+ wins then Mick has to go.

This to me is a realistic timetable. It's sad, but the house that Bob built is not going to be quickly re-established IMO. The manner in which it was blown up has resulted in this mess. I hope I am wrong, and that Mick can exceed this timetable.

[London 'Cat]

Here's my thought process:

Year 1 06/07 - Can't even count it. He had zero opportunity to recruit and had to grab whatever he could. We were probably lucky to get as many wins as we did last year.

Year 2 07/08- Gimme a break. The program's reputation is completely damaged, and Mick has to try to rebuild everything, reputation, recruiting caliber, etc. "His guys" are freshman. Another 18 loss year.

Year 3 08/09 - Need to see some improvement in recruiting and on the court performance - hope for a .500 season.

Year 4 09/10 - Now his first first "real" recruiting class are Juniors, need to be >.500 and make the NIT

Year 5 10/11 - This is the year you need to see a solid winning season and NCAA appearance - 2nd round would be nice. If we are in Year 5 and we are not in the tourney, not competing day in and day out, and not winning more than 18 games...that's a real problem.

Year 6 11/12 - if year 5 is less than expected, this is a put up or shut up year. If not 19+ wins then Mick has to go.

This to me is a realistic timetable. It's sad, but the house that Bob built is not going to be quickly re-established IMO. The manner in which it was blown up has resulted in this mess. I hope I am wrong, and that Mick can exceed this timetable.

This is realistic. I expect this season to be along the same lines as last year; the team has no player with more than one year of D1 experience. Next season will probably not be much better, but the team should improve some as compared to this year. When Vaughn is a senior, Mick will need to demonstrate that he can coach by winning the games they should, ie against the mid-majors, and upsetting one or two of the top teams in the BEast. If not, I will begin to doubt his ability to return the program to its former status.

[Thegreatone]

Although it maybe the most realistic it is not what I want. I think we can/should be in the NCAA tourny in 09. Basically I feel we should be a year ahead of what you saying. This is a learning curve year but we can get to .500. This will be a new team when Jamual Warren is back because it will give us the ability to press teams. We can not press now because we dont have a legitimate back up for Vaugn. Wilks is getting more comfortable and he will be huge when it comes to pressing with his length and athleticism.

This season is nothing like last year because we can see the talent. Last year you couldnt see a future, with this year team the future is clear. I am pleased with all the freshman, Alvin will be fine. He is clearly pressing right now. I like Belton too, he may not be able to contribute a whole lot for a couple years but right now he is big and strong and I am sure is doing some work on people in practice. I think .500 is achievable.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Anyone who pushes the panic button before 2010 is taking lessons from UK fans. This is a Steve Austin 6 Million Dollar Man total rebuild in progress....

Going to take 4 full recruiting classes to get to the NCAAs....and 2006 when we needed enough warm bodies to field a team doesn't really count.

[Irishbearcat]

As many as it takes. 5 years, 7 years, whatever.

I'm with ya on that one. He is about the best out there who would even come to Cincy. Plus, he is a tireless recruiter. He'll do just fine. His prime team could just be 2 more years out.

[Nerf]

How long? Let's put it this way: I think it's far too early to start having this conversation.

[Thegreatone]

As a fan I am in it for the long hall and I couldnt be happier with Mick and I fully expect nothing but excellence from him and his staff. However my standards are high and will always be high, the past has set a high bar that I am not willing to lower. When we accept anything below excellent that is what we will get, I am realistic and understand that we need to be patient.

[jplog]

I hate to keep comparing the situations, but Kelly brought in a new QB, and some new WR's, and he has a record win year.

Cronin has his second year players in, and they haven't improved from last year, despite only losing McGowan. They need to get a whole lot better.

But it was a struggle to win.

Dude, get a clue! Cronin's leftover recruits can't be counted against him. We were lucky to even field a team last year. Kelly walked into a great situation and has more of an uncertainty to his situation than Mick. Can Kelly recruit BE caliber players? We'll see.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Anyone who pushes the panic button before 2010 is taking lessons from UK fans. This is a Steve Austin 6 Million Dollar Man total rebuild in progress....

Going to take 4 full recruiting classes to get to the NCAAs....and 2006 when we needed enough warm bodies to field a team doesn't really count.

The 2007 team (with those warm bodies) competed pretty well most of the time. So far, 2007 is better than 2008 team.

So far.

[Mick's Da Man]

I predict you'll still be supporting him 10 years from now!

Not only that we'll put memories of our former great coaches (Wiethe, Smith, Jucker, etc.) in a hallowed place in our minds, but Mick will come to define UC basketball for a long time to come.

I agree.

After the 2009-2010 season, all these negative foolish doubters will be on board and eating crow.

Plus, Mick will be restocking with good recruiting classes every year, but less dependent on rookies to get it done, with a solid group of veteran players to lean on.

Once he gets over the hurdle of a winning season, an NCAA Tournament appearance, and silences the Huggs lovers.........he will be here a long time. And everyone will be happy that he started so young and lives and loves the city of Cincinnati.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I agree.

After the 2009-2010 season, all these negative foolish doubters will be on board and eating crow.

Plus, Mick will be restocking with good recruiting classes every year, but less dependent on rookies to get it done, with a solid group of veteran players to lean on.

Once he gets over the hurdle of a winning season, an NCAA Tournament appearance, and silences the Huggs lovers.........he will be here a long time. And everyone will be happy that he started so young and lives and loves the city of Cincinnati.

Regardless how the next 15 years go, I'd think any Bearcat fan would fondly remember the 1990's and early 2000's. Only makes sense to me.

[Kindog202]

Regardless how the next 15 years go, I'd think any Bearcat fan would fondly remember the 1990's and early 2000's. Only makes sense to me.

I will always fondly remember those years and what it meant for the future of the school (without those years, we would not be in the Big East today). However those years are in the past and I am looking forward to what the future holds for this program.

[Bearcat1996]

In no way is UC lucky to have Mick, more like Mick is lucky to have this job! Don't get me wrong, he will work his tail off and not embarrass UC, but he will not win enough games to stay more than 5 years. He will, however, leave the program attractive enough for UC to entice a bigger name, with more charisma. Mick does not connect with fans nearly the way a certain former coach did.

[jeffto]

Regardless how the next 15 years go, I'd think any Bearcat fan would fondly remember the 1990's and early 2000's. Only makes sense to me.As long as you're posting on here chances are we'll never forget.

I do fondly remember those years but would rather this forum spend 99% of its time on the present/future.

[Mick's Da Man]

In no way is UC lucky to have Mick, more like Mick is lucky to have this job! Don't get me wrong, he will work his tail off and not embarrass UC, but he will not win enough games to stay more than 5 years. He will, however, leave the program attractive enough for UC to entice a bigger name, with more charisma. Mick does not connect with fans nearly the way a certain former coach did.


Funny stuff.

[cincycpaw]

If the 2009-2010 Bearcats are not a NCAA Tourney team...maybe 1 year after that.

[CincyBeerCo]

In no way is UC lucky to have Mick, more like Mick is lucky to have this job! Don't get me wrong, he will work his tail off and not embarrass UC, but he will not win enough games to stay more than 5 years. He will, however, leave the program attractive enough for UC to entice a bigger name, with more charisma. Mick does not connect with fans nearly the way a certain former coach did.

Completely disagree! I think we are very lucky to have someone that will put every once of energy he has into rebulding a program that he holds above any other (Not only do I think he connects w/ the fans...he is a fan). He has learned form 2 of the very best active coaches (Huggs and Little Ricky) and has already demonstrated success as a head coach. The negativity here kills me. He has really only had one recruiting period to put BEast caliber players on the court since he took over (and that was the late one when most of the talent was already gone), and we are already talking about when he should get canned?!?!?! WTF?!?!!? Let the man work his magic and he will have us back where we belong as soon as he possibly can. If it take us 5 years to rebound from the debacle of a situation he inherrited, so be it. I don't think that there are many (if any) other coaches that could do it any sooner. GO MICK...GO CATS!!!

[Bearcat1996]

Completely disagree! I think we are very lucky to have someone that will put every once of energy he has into rebulding a program that he holds above any other (Not only do I think he connects w/ the fans...he is a fan). He has learned form 2 of the very best active coaches (Huggs and Little Ricky) and has already demonstrated success as a head coach. The negativity here kills me. He has really only had one recruiting period to put BEast caliber players on the court since he took over (and that was the late one when most of the talent was already gone), and we are already talking about when he should get canned?!?!?! WTF?!?!!? Let the man work his magic and he will have us back where we belong as soon as he possibly can. If it take us 5 years to rebound from the debacle of a situation he inherrited, so be it. I don't think that there are many (if any) other coaches that could do it any sooner. GO MICK...GO CATS!!!

The thing is, Bearcat Basketball is hardly generating a buzz from the community right now. Most casual fans could care less about the program now and Mick has not done a very good job in connecting (or reconnecting) with the casual fans in this regard, in my opinion. Maybe he believes that winning in a couple years will bridge this gap and bring fans back. I hope so, but by then, it may be too late.

[ralph1950]

In no way is UC lucky to have Mick, more like Mick is lucky to have this job! Don't get me wrong, he will work his tail off and not embarrass UC, but he will not win enough games to stay more than 5 years. He will, however, leave the program attractive enough for UC to entice a bigger name, with more charisma. Mick does not connect with fans nearly the way a certain former coach did.

1. Mick has a 6 year contract

2. At UC, basketball is now the filler (simply something to do) between the end of football season and the start of spring football practice, it is not to be taken all that seriously.

[CincyBeerCo]

The thing is, Bearcat Basketball is hardly generating a buzz from the community right now. Most casual fans could care less about the program now and Mick has not done a very good job in connecting (or reconnecting) with the casual fans in this regard, in my opinion. Maybe he believes that winning in a couple years will bridge this gap and bring fans back. I hope so, but by then, it may be too late.

My thought is this: Look at it from a purely sales point of view. Insert any product. Say it is in the testing phase or you just haven't work out all of the glitches yet. While you want to sell as many as possible, you don't want to over-hype that you have a great product and then not deliver to those standards. You may lose customers forever.

I know this comparisson might not be completely accurate, but Mick might just not want to use up all of his good will with the community by pleading with them to come out and see what unfortunatly this year has been a pretty sub-par product.

BK pleaded for fan support knowing that he already had an established product. The on-field performance lived up to the standard (exceeded really), and the customers (for the most part) emptied the shelves.

My guess is that as soon as Mick has something to sell, he's gonna come with an all out marketing blitz!

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

As long as you're posting on here chances are we'll never forget.

I do fondly remember those years but would rather this forum spend 99% of its time on the present/future.

Its future will be compared to those years (AND the late 1950's and early 1960's) rather than the late 1970's and 1980's. At least I hope so.

[Bearcat1996]

My thought is this: Look at it from a purely sales point of view. Insert any product. Say it is in the testing phase or you just haven't work out all of the glitches yet. While you want to sell as many as possible, you don't want to over-hype that you have a great product and then not deliver to those standards. You may lose customers forever.

I know this comparisson might not be completely accurate, but Mick might just not want to use up all of his good will with the community by pleading with them to come out and see what unfortunatly this year has been a pretty sub-par product.

BK pleaded for fan support knowing that he already had an established product. The on-field performance lived up to the standard (exceeded really), and the customers (for the most part) emptied the shelves.

My guess is that as soon as Mick has something to sell, he's gonna come with an all out marketing blitz!

Good analogy. Maybe this is true and things will work out for him. Its just, at this point, Mick's not oozing confidence and charisma as BK and BH did in the past. I hope this turns out to be a non-issue in the next couple years!

[Nerf]

Good analogy. Maybe this is true and things will work out for him. Its just, at this point, Mick's not oozing confidence and charisma as BK and BH did in the past. I hope this turns out to be a non-issue in the next couple years!

BH oozed a lot of things, but charisma was not one of them. He would be the first person to tell you that.

[Bearcat1996]

BH oozed a lot of things, but charisma was not one of them. He would be the first person to tell you that.

I disagree

[levydl]

The thing is, Bearcat Basketball is hardly generating a buzz from the community right now. Most casual fans could care less about the program now and Mick has not done a very good job in connecting (or reconnecting) with the casual fans in this regard, in my opinion. Maybe he believes that winning in a couple years will bridge this gap and bring fans back. I hope so, but by then, it may be too late.

What's he supposed to do? When was the last time a team coming off a last place finish in the league and an 11-19 record (after 15 years of high achievement) generated a buzz in a community?

The fans are used to winning basketball. There's expectations built in. And the stands weren't even consistently packed at this time of year when we were good. I've been to all the games and it's tough to watch them struggle. I understand why people don't want to go. I see some promise in the young kids, but it's not very entertaining watching a game and thinking about 2-3 years from now.

But what do you think Mick can do to get a "buzz" going when the team is not very good? What isn't he doing that he could be? How long do you think the buzz Brian Kelly created would have lasted if he went 6-6 this year? In Cincinnati, you win games and people will come; you lose, and people will stay away. It has nothing to do with a coach's community outreach ability. Mick should stick to coaching and recruiting. When he starts winning big, the buzz will follow.

[CincyBeerCo]

Huggs was a pretty captivating, almost larger than life figure. When he entered a room, there was a definite persona that came with him. I would say he had plenty of charisma.

[Nerf]

I didn't say he wasn't a winner, or didn't have a winner's confidence. He most certainly did. But it was his success and confidence that allowed him to overcome the fact that as a public speaker he was a bump on a log. People got to know him and understand/appreciate his dry sense of humor etc. because they wanted to, and they wanted to because he won.

That's the point, when Mick starts winning suddenly people will be hanging on his every word and wanting to understand him better.

[Bearcat1996]

What's he supposed to do? When was the last time a team coming off a last place finish in the league and an 11-19 record (after 15 years of high achievement) generated a buzz in a community?

The fans are used to winning basketball. There's expectations built in. And the stands weren't even consistently packed at this time of year when we were good. I've been to all the games and it's tough to watch them struggle. I understand why people don't want to go. I see some promise in the young kids, but it's not very entertaining watching a game and thinking about 2-3 years from now.

But what do you think Mick can do to get a "buzz" going when the team is not very good? What isn't he doing that he could be? How long do you think the buzz Brian Kelly created would have lasted if he went 6-6 this year? In Cincinnati, you win games and people will come; you lose, and people will stay away. It has nothing to do with a coach's community outreach ability. Mick should stick to coaching and recruiting. When he starts winning big, the buzz will follow.

It has everything to do with the coaches outreach ability. Remember, Dantonio won and the buzz was not that great, either. What I am saying is, maybe it's the person, not the position. Maybe Mick is incapable of creating interest. Time will tell.

[Oldtimer_UC_fan]

In no way is UC lucky to have Mick, more like Mick is lucky to have this job! Don't get me wrong, he will work his tail off and not embarrass UC, but he will not win enough games to stay more than 5 years. He will, however, leave the program attractive enough for UC to entice a bigger name, with more charisma. Mick does not connect with fans nearly the way a certain former coach did.


Well, St. Louis U. got Rick Majerus, and, the job at UC is FARRRRRR more attractive than that one.

[Nerf]

Unless we know exactly who else expressed an interest in this job, we'll never know if we're lucky to have Mick or not. Although I don't suspect there were a litany of HoF coaches lining up for the opportunity to be the object of ridicule for 4-5 years while they cleaned up the mess.

[Bearcat1996]

Unless we know exactly who else expressed an interest in this job, we'll never know if we're lucky to have Mick or not. Although I don't suspect there were a litany of HoF coaches lining up for the opportunity to be the object of ridicule for 4-5 years while they cleaned up the mess.

I agree with you. Mick was probably the best choice given the situation, however, if he proves he can't coach (within 2-3 years we will likely know) then he will most likely be gone and the program will be more attractive than when MC took over.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Unless we know exactly who else expressed an interest in this job, we'll never know if we're lucky to have Mick or not. Although I don't suspect there were a litany of HoF coaches lining up for the opportunity to be the object of ridicule for 4-5 years while they cleaned up the mess.

Very few were interested, but Mick would have been the choice even if 100's were interested.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

What's he supposed to do? When was the last time a team coming off a last place finish in the league and an 11-19 record (after 15 years of high achievement) generated a buzz in a community?

1989-90, I think it was.

[Nerf]

1989-90, I think it was.

Sorry I guess I missed out on those 15 previous years of high achievement prior to 1989-90.

[levydl]

It has everything to do with the coaches outreach ability. Remember, Dantonio won and the buzz was not that great, either. What I am saying is, maybe it's the person, not the position. Maybe Mick is incapable of creating interest. Time will tell.

What did Dantonio win? His team was never rated in the top 25, never sniffed at a league title, and was never in contention for a good bowl game. If Mick wins like Dantonio did, I will be incredibly disappointed.

Tell me what Mick could do involving community outreach to get people to come see a bad product, especially when they're used to seeing a top 35 team every single year for a decade and a half.

Only the diehards want to come to watch young, up and coming talents and the players from last years' poor team play low major programs competitively and (presumably, though wish it isn't so) get smoked by top 50 teams. No one could "sell" UC basketball games right now. When Mick's teams start winning, everyone will be back.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Sorry I guess I missed out on those 15 previous years of high achievement prior to 1989-90.

I gave a partial answer. The 1990 team achieved more than expected.

[Nerf]

I gave a partial answer. The 1990 team achieved more than expected.

No, you gave no answer at all. In addition to not having 15 years of previous high achievement, the team the year before 1989-1990 went 15-12, not 11-19. They finished 5th in their conference, not last place. Your "answer" was just you looking for yet another opportunity to invoke the memory of BH, even though it was completely inaccurate and inappropriate.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

No, you gave no answer at all. In addition to not having 15 years of previous high achievement, the team the year before 1989-1990 went 15-12, not 11-19. They finished 5th in their conference, not last place. Your "answer" was just you looking for yet another opportunity to invoke the memory of BH, even though it was completely inaccurate and inappropriate.

15-12 in Metro and no postseason invite is COMPARABLE TO 11-19 in BEast.

The years of 1992, 1993, 1996, 2000, and 2002 were High Achievement.

The years of 2003, 2004, and 2005 were less so. It's 2007, almost 2008. Few people (outside of Cincy) remember the Bearcat teams of the 1990's.

[Nerf]

15-12 in Metro and no postseason invite is COMPARABLE TO 11-19 in BEast.

The years of 1992, 1993, 1996, 2000, and 2002 were High Achievement.

The years of 2003, 2004, and 2005 were less so. It's 2007, almost 2008. Few people (outside of Cincy) remember the Bearcat teams of the 1990's.

They made the postseason from 1990-2006, I'm fairly certain that is what levydl was referring to when he mentioned 15 years of "high achievement".

The 2007 team had an 11-19 record and finished dead last in their conference record AFTER 15 years of "high achievement",

You honestly believe that having a winning record and finishing 5th place in "one of the nation's top conferences in the 1980's" (your words) is comparable to last place in the Big East in 2007?

Sorry, I don't buy it, he asked a very simple question, without qualifiers:

"When was the last time a team coming off a last place finish in the league and an 11-19 record (after 15 years of high achievement) generated a buzz in a community?"

And you tried twisting it around so you could bring up the previous coach's regime once again. It's getting tiresome.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Texas A&M in 2004. They were 0-16 in B12 (7-21 overall) in 2003, then went 8-8 (21-10 overall) in 2004 to earn NIT bid.

Minnesota Golden Gophers are generating a huge buzz in Twin Cities this year after going 9-22 last year. Virtually the same players but a new coach.

[ralph1950]

I will give Mick no less then the same number of years it took Dean Smith to win an NCAA tourney at North Carolina, 21 years.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I will give Mick no less then the same number of years it took Dean Smith to win an NCAA tourney at North Carolina, 21 years.

Any comparison between the two is premature (at best).

Dean Smith made 3 FF in his first decade of coaching at UNC.

That kept him in Chapel Hill.

[jeffto]

What a meaningless thread. We should all be ashamed of ourselves for wasting bandwidth on such drivel.

[SLMadiCat]

What a meaningless thread. We should all be ashamed of ourselves for wasting bandwidth on such drivel.

I agree. What is premature is a discussion on how much time Mick has here. He hasn't even had a chance to prove himself yet. I know this is a discussion board, but c'mon, give the guy a chance. If he isn't producing wins in the next few years, then it is time to bring out the discussion. Not now.

[611116]

I will give Mick no less then the same number of years it took Dean Smith to win an NCAA tourney at North Carolina, 21 years.
Ralph--

It's all about grades now. Wins and losses mean nothing.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Ralph--

It's all about grades now. Wins and losses mean nothing.

Never true in athletics. It's always (eventually) about W and L = $ to UC.

[jeffto]

Now we're responding to obviously sarcastic comments. I think 611116 knows that.

[Mick's Da Man]

15-12 in Metro and no postseason invite is COMPARABLE TO 11-19 in BEast.

The years of 1992, 1993, 1996, 2000, and 2002 were High Achievement.

The years of 2003, 2004, and 2005 were less so. It's 2007, almost 2008. Few people (outside of Cincy) remember the Bearcat teams of the 1990's.


Geez, please don't invoke the memories of 2000 and 2002. Two of the worst season ending memories I have for the BH Bearcat teams.

Frickin' Kenyon going down in 2000 and eventually losing to Tulsa early on, and then frickin' Logan and Stokes going 31-4 but losing to UCLA in a wild one.

Yikes. I'd like to forget both of those.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Geez, please don't invoke the memories of 2000 and 2002. Two of the worst season ending memories I have for the BH Bearcat teams.

Frickin' Kenyon going down in 2000 and eventually losing to Tulsa early on, and then frickin' Logan and Stokes going 31-4 but losing to UCLA in a wild one.

Yikes. I'd like to forget both of those.

Why would a Bearcat fan want to forget the only 30+ W season in Bearcat history (and only #1 seed in NCAA) plus the #1 team in the nation???

[jeffto]

Why would a Bearcat fan want to forget the only 30+ W season in Bearcat history (and only #1 seed in NCAA) plus the #1 team in the nation???With you on this forum Tom we won't be able to forget anything about the Huggins years. (P.S. That's not encouragement)

We all wish the end of that season turned out differently, but what on earth does it have to with the 2007-08 UC Bearcats.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

With you on this forum Tom we won't be able to forget anything about the Huggins years. (P.S. That's not encouragement)

We all wish the end of that season turned out differently, but what on earth does it have to with the 2007-08 UC Bearcats.

It's a discussion forum. The other poster said he/she wanted to forget those 2 years. I don't. The 2000 team was the best UC team in recent years. The 2002 team was a favorite (of mine) because it over-achieved expectations.

No mention of the coach whatsoever. Team = players.

[mlb]

After tonights game I'm thinking it is time to bring a real X's and O's guy in sooner rather than later.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

After tonights game I'm thinking it is time to bring a real X's and O's guy in sooner rather than later.

Disagree. Ed Badger got 5 years, Tony Yates 6 years. Neither faced what existed in 2006. (Yates had a similar depleted roster in 1983)

Cronin deserves a minimum of 6 years to show what he can do. He has 6 year contract.

[Cats4Ever]

Who do we have on the bench as bench coach? They sure aren't earning their money.

Need for Mick to get it going.

Next game is in a week - he has time to make things better - if he is any kind of coach at all.

[BearcatDrew]

If UC doesn't make the NCAA tournament next year, you fire him! I'm really sick of hearing wait til we have enough talent and Micks recruits are in. It doesn't really matter how much talent you have if you don't know how to coach. Over the years UC has had some teams that lack talent but still worked their butts off and made it to the NCAA tournament.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Who do we have on the bench as bench coach? They sure aren't earning their money.

Need for Mick to get it going.

Next game is in a week - he has time to make things better - if he is any kind of coach at all.

Cronin is HC. Larry Davis is Associate HC. Both have Div I coaching experience.

[Cats4Ever]

Cronin is HC. Larry Davis is Associate HC. Both have Div I coaching experience.

Murray state - got that one. Big time program prepared him well.

Davis was successful where?

Are you really happy with what the team is doing now? I know McClain had his foot stepped on beginning of the second half, but what happened to Wilks in the first half? And what is up with Mitchell? Can't recall a player getting tossed in a long while - mick said he had a guy ready to go in, but another case of a player at the table and the guy on the court getting his final foul.

Williamson disappeared, Vaughn was quiet, and post game mick said they weren't listening to him.

Ever hear a coach admit that to the supporters before?

[SLMadiCat]

Murray state - got that one. Big time program prepared him well.

Davis was successful where?

Are you really happy with what the team is doing now? I know McClain had his foot stepped on beginning of the second half, but what happened to Wilks in the first half? And what is up with Mitchell?

I'm sure most, if not everyone, is upset with where the program is. But many aren't surprised. These aren't all top-10 freshman, they are good freshman who will take time to develop. The problem is with the so-called veterans. I thank them for coming to UC because it could have been worse, but most really are Big East (and even conf-USA) caliber players.

Murray state - got that one. Big time program prepared him well.
Can't recall a player getting tossed in a long while - mick said he had a guy ready to go in, but another case of a player at the table and the guy on the court getting his final foul.


Another case? Who was the other one to get ejected?


Williamson disappeared, Vaughn was quiet,

Vaughn will have off nights. He has been playing a lot of minutes so far this year. Some nights he will be great, others not. Keep in mind this is a Sophomore transitioning to PG while having to be the leader of the team.

Williamson is not very good, I've been saying it for a while now. He works pretty hard, but he has no outside shot, no touch around the basket, and is undersized.


and post game mick said they weren't listening to him.

Ever hear a coach admit that to the supporters before?

Uhh, yes, I've heard it many times, from a previous beloved coach. You need help? How about "I don't know Chuck, they just don't listen". That help?

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Murray state - got that one. Big time program prepared him well.

Davis was successful where?

Are you really happy with what the team is doing now? I know McClain had his foot stepped on beginning of the second half, but what happened to Wilks in the first half? And what is up with Mitchell? Can't recall a player getting tossed in a long while - mick said he had a guy ready to go in, but another case of a player at the table and the guy on the court getting his final foul.

Williamson disappeared, Vaughn was quiet, and post game mick said they weren't listening to him.

Ever hear a coach admit that to the supporters before?

Never used the word Successful. I said Div I HC experience.

Larry Davis coached at Furman.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I'm sure most, if not everyone, is upset with where the program is. But many aren't surprised. These aren't all top-10 freshman, they are good freshman who will take time to develop. The problem is with the so-called veterans. I thank them for coming to UC because it could have been worse, but most really are Big East (and even conf-USA) caliber players.

Another case? Who was the other one to get ejected?

Vaughn will have off nights. He has been playing a lot of minutes so far this year. Some nights he will be great, others not. Keep in mind this is a Sophomore transitioning to PG while having to be the leader of the team.

Williamson is not very good, I've been saying it for a while now. He works pretty hard, but he has no outside shot, no touch around the basket, and is undersized.

Uhh, yes, I've heard it many times, from a previous beloved coach. You need help? How about "I don't know Chuck, they just don't listen". That help?

Not upset. Puzzled.

No idea.

Vaughn is SG, not PG. UC will discover that (eventually).

Williamson averaged 13+ ppg and 7.5 rebounds on a bad knee last year. He's not playing very good this year. But he was good last year.

That coach has almost 600 career W. This coach hasn't hit 100 W yet.

[Nerf]

Never used the word Successful. I said Div I HC experience.

Larry Davis coached at Furman.

Davis is also credited by Dave Odom with finding Tim Duncan when Davis was Odom's assistant at Wake.

[SLMadiCat]

Williamson averaged 13+ ppg and 7.5 rebounds on a bad knee last year. He's not playing very good this year. But he was good last year.

He was just okay last year. Even last year he had too many missed bunnies. PF's need to be able to make a layup, and he can't.


That coach has almost 600 career W. This coach hasn't hit 100 W yet.

That's irrelevant to the question asked. He asked: "Ever hear a coach admit that to the supporters before?" The answer to which is 'yes'.

[Bearcat Jeff]

He was just okay last year. Even last year he had too many missed bunnies. PF's need to be able to make a layup, and he can't.



That's irrelevant to the question asked. He asked: "Ever hear a coach admit that to the supporters before?" The answer to which is 'yes'.

The former coach always had veterans to rely on as well. Why does it have to be stated over and over that the circumsatnce of this team/coach is unique? Tom please let go of the whole Huggs thing. He is gone forever. You never miss an opportunity to invoke his name do you?

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

He was just okay last year. Even last year he had too many missed bunnies. PF's need to be able to make a layup, and he can't.

That's irrelevant to the question asked. He asked: "Ever hear a coach admit that to the supporters before?" The answer to which is 'yes'.

I didn't offer a subjective evaluation. Williamson averaged 13+ ppg and 7.5 rebounds against BEast schedule last year.

It is relevant because the 600 W coach has more experience than the 100 W coach, ergo knows better what to do about it. And does it.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

The former coach always had veterans to rely on as well. Why does it have to be stated over and over that the circumsatnce of this team/coach is unique? Tom please let go of the whole Huggs thing. He is gone forever. You never miss an opportunity to invoke his name do you?

A veteran coach (such as Tubby Smith at Minnesota) gets more out of the same players than a younger coach (such as Dan Monson).

Minnesota was 9-22 last year but likely to flip those numbers this year.

My point simply is that we are used to veteran coaching at UC. We no longer have that. The same results are not likely to occur.