Should We Be Concerned? [Archive]

coach

11-29-2011, 08:25 AM

no we should not. we only have two scholarships as shaq thomas will be back next year. with this big of a frosh class, they likely will have to use at least one if not both for jucos. juco recruiting is typically done in the feb-apr timeframe. they will likel need some instant help offensively depending on who pans out this year once we get thru march.

Major ----de Coverley

11-29-2011, 08:54 AM

not a lot of "instant help" offensively in the Juco ranks anymore. Instant warm body and role player is about all to expect.

CincyEngGrad02

11-29-2011, 09:06 AM

coach Cronin could take 5 guys named Harry and win. I'm not worried a bit.

BearcatAlum1

11-29-2011, 11:42 AM

not a lot of "instant help" offensively in the Juco ranks anymore. Instant warm body and role player is about all to expect.

Darius Odom Johnson and Jae Crowder at Marquette would disagree...

Nurideen Lindsay at St Johns.....

There are a bunch of guys that can contribute in the JC ranks.

Best Body

11-29-2011, 04:30 PM

Depth looks very thin right now, and we lose Yancy and Dion after this year. I hope the freshmen start contributing but I am really starting to worry about the future as well. Should we be concerned that we have nobody signed for the 2012 recruiting class?

Absolutely yes. There are between 17-18 unsigned players from the top 100 left, depending on which one you look at. Mick MUST get at least one of these players. UC is losing its most talented player (possibly 2 best players), and sorry but this current class of freshman is underwhelming. More 3 star guys aren't going to cut it in the BE, if you look at how many of the top 100 are going to other BE schools.

This Andrew White kid is exactly what the program needs, and Mick needs to start signing these kids vs. "getting in on them" or whatever.

If South Florida, Providence, Syracuse, West Virginia, UCONN, etc. not to mention Xavier can sign these players, UC ought to be able / must be able to, as well to keep pace with these teams.

cmm27

11-29-2011, 06:25 PM

UC needs to stop keeping pace and start lapping some of those teams.

coach

11-30-2011, 08:49 AM

UC needs to stop keeping pace and start lapping some of those teams.

that's not going to happen for various reasons. there is plenty of scoring help int the juco ranks. the difficult part with jucos is transitioning them to a more organized offensive game. most of them play a lot of one on one ball(r patterson) and it takes a while to fit in. heck, look at marshall the other night, robert goff is a prime example.

Best Body

11-30-2011, 09:30 AM

UC needs to stop keeping pace and start lapping some of those teams.

baby steps: I'll settle for getting close first, then keeping pace. At that point we can start hoping to pass and lap them.

Best Body

11-30-2011, 09:34 AM

that's not going to happen for various reasons. there is plenty of scoring help int the juco ranks. the difficult part with jucos is transitioning them to a more organized offensive game. most of them play a lot of one on one ball(r patterson) and it takes a while to fit in. heck, look at marshall the other night, robert goff is a prime example.

If UC continues to get outrecruited by X, South Florida, and Providence, and by more than half of the BE conference, something needs to change.

I did read an article yesterday on CBSsports website that ranked Murray States assistant coach as one of the top assistants in recruiting. I wonder if he worked with Mick before, and if so, perhaps he needs to be offered to do so again.

coach

11-30-2011, 10:01 AM

GoBearcats31

11-30-2011, 10:37 AM

Best Body

11-30-2011, 11:06 AM

Who would you specifically want from x, usf or providence? Holloway signed with indiana and basically fell into miller's lap when sampson imploded. Same with Crawford and Lavender. You are reading to many recruiting sites. The last big guy x signed was Frease and he isn't exactly setting the world on fire.

Providence has two 5 star players coming in next year, and has the highest ranked 2012 recruiting class in the BE.

X has a 4 star PG coming in, rated in the 40s or 50s - 3rd ranked recruiting class for non BCS schools (after memphis and Houston).

USF is probably the worst program in the BE, yet they have a top 100 player signed for 2012.

UC is losing Gates and Dixon, and has zero 2012 recruits signed, and almost all of the top players are committed elsewhere.

My point was that UC needs to replace a couple of its most talented players after this year, and has failed to do so, thus far. And if USF, X and Providence can get these players, UC should also be able to do so. I realize UK, Duke, Kansas and O$U are going to get whomever they want, but there are good players out there available to BE schools, and I am concerned UC isn't getting them.

I actually don't look at recruiting sites very often, but this thread made me look into it. Of course, all I need to do is look at this forum to see that UC has nobody coming at all, at this point, which is cause enough for concern.

coach

11-30-2011, 11:22 AM

Providence has two 5 star players coming in next year, and has the highest ranked 2012 recruiting class in the BE.

X has a 4 star PG coming in, rated in the 40s or 50s - 3rd ranked recruiting class for non BCS schools (after memphis and Houston).

USF is probably the worst program in the BE, yet they have a top 100 player signed for 2012.

UC is losing Gates and Dixon, and has zero 2012 recruits signed, and almost all of the top players are committed elsewhere.

I actually don't look at recruiting sites very often, but this thread made me look into it. Of course, all I need to do is look at this forum to see that UC has nobody coming at all, at this point, which is cause enough for concern.

Providence has two kids coming in one who is from providence and the other who is right there in ct. They are local guys who are not always going to leave town. X has the local point guard sc as well. We will not add a pg with either of our open scholly's. USF's recruiting class right now is two juco's and the hawkins kid who has taken a liking to going to florida from michigan. We only have two openings next year. When you already have 5 frosh this year, you can't just add 2 more frosh in the fall. It does not work that way. We are not coached by Callipari.

Best Body

11-30-2011, 11:47 AM

Providence has two kids coming in one who is from providence and the other who is right there in ct. They are local guys who are not always going to leave town. X has the local point guard sc as well. We will not add a pg with either of our open scholly's. USF's recruiting class right now is two juco's and the hawkins kid who has taken a liking to going to florida from michigan. We only have two openings next year. When you already have 5 frosh this year, you can't just add 2 more frosh in the fall. It does not work that way. We are not coached by Callipari.

The point is there are plenty of good players availabe such that schools in UC's category can get them. I am not specifically concerned with excuses as to why UC didn't get 3 or 4 of them. But rather that they have signed none.

If there was not interest in Mick's part, there wouldn't have been one of the remaining players on campus recently (white), so the Calipari deflection is lame. Mick knows he needs to replace the talent that he is losing, otherwise the kid wouldn't have visited.

The thread was basically should we be concerned. I certainly am. I think Mick is also.

coach

11-30-2011, 02:46 PM

Best Body

11-30-2011, 04:03 PM

Recruiting in this day and age is a much more precise science than you seem to understand. With 13 scholly's you cannot just recruit the highest rated player in order to win recruiting rankings. You have obviously never coached bball.

Please - That's just more denial. True, I have never coached Div 1 basketball, but alot of mediocre recruiters have, and most have eventually failed b/c of that.

You are dead wrong that recruiting is complicated - O$U, UK, UNC, Syracuse, etc. win the recruiting rankings and then put the best teams on the floor. The better players you recruit, the better team you have. You can spin it all you like to make it appear that Mick is doing well, but this team needs more talent for next season, and as of now, it will not be getting any.

Sure, if you had a loaded team like Ohio State (who has no signed recruits), you don't always go get some additional studs. But try to find one highly rated player that couldn't help this team next year, or for that matter start right away. If they don't get the fairly highly rated kid that Mick had visit recently, it's b/c he didn't want to come here/liked it better elsewhere, not b/c he wasn't a good fit on the roster.

This team flat out needs a great shooter (amongst other things). It has two open scholarships. There is no precision scientific reason to not have recruited a big time player - If UC ends up with an unheralded recruit it is b/c it was the best player Mick could get to come here, period.

Helicopter

11-30-2011, 04:52 PM

This team has solid PG play next year: Cash/Guin
Good forwards: Jackson/Mooj
Good Wings: Shaq/SK

And a giant dearth at the 5. They really have no acceptable Yancy replacement. Are also lacking "star power" unless Shaq is more than we expected. This team will really really struggle unless we land a big prospect.

coach

11-30-2011, 05:24 PM

Please - That's just more denial. True, I have never coached Div 1 basketball, but alot of mediocre recruiters have, and most have eventually failed b/c of that.

You are dead wrong that recruiting is complicated - O$U, UK, UNC, Syracuse, etc. win the recruiting rankings and then put the best teams on the floor. The better players you recruit, the better team you have. You can spin it all you like to make it appear that Mick is doing well, but this team needs more talent for next season, and as of now, it will not be getting any.

Sure, if you had a loaded team like Ohio State (who has no signed recruits), you don't always go get some additional studs. But try to find one highly rated player that couldn't help this team next year, or for that matter start right away. If they don't get the fairly highly rated kid that Mick had visit recently, it's b/c he didn't want to come here/liked it better elsewhere, not b/c he wasn't a good fit on the roster.

This team flat out needs a great shooter (amongst other things). It has two open scholarships. There is no precision scientific reason to not have recruited a big time player - If UC ends up with an unheralded recruit it is b/c it was the best player Mick could get to come here, period.

Now you have really gone off the deep end. You're comparing UC and it's 5k fans a game to recruiting OSU, Syracuse, NC and UK? We are only in on a fraction, and i mean fraction, of the guys they get. If you are holding out for that group on an annual basis, you're kidding yourself.

BearcatAlum1

11-30-2011, 09:10 PM

Can I ask the reason why Yancy is considered so dominant?

What are his career numbers? Are they really that irreplaceable?

Best Body

12-01-2011, 11:01 AM

Now you have really gone off the deep end. You're comparing UC and it's 5k fans a game to recruiting OSU, Syracuse, NC and UK? We are only in on a fraction, and i mean fraction, of the guys they get. If you are holding out for that group on an annual basis, you're kidding yourself.

I was making a point that the better you recruit, the better you are, and that fact isn't debatable. Sometimes you need to make the obvious examples to make a point. Of course, UC isn't in that tier. But as I stated in an earlier post, teams like USF, X, Providence, WV, and on and on, are getting better recruits than UC, and seem to be in the 2nd recruiting tier. UC seems to be in a 3rd or 4th tier, and this is cause for concern for the future.

I don't think we can afford to rationalize mediocre recruiting. It is possible to get great recruits to UC. There have been highly rated players that have committed here in the past, including under Mick. But the past couple of classes have been plain mediocre. I thought when Stephenson was signed, UC had turned the corner, but no recruits since that guy have been anything to be super excited about. And maybe 5k are showing up b/c the basketball is boring due to the fact that we don't have exciting players.

Best Body

12-01-2011, 11:02 AM

Can I ask the reason why Yancy is considered so dominant?

What are his career numbers? Are they really that irreplaceable?

Yancy's career numbers are not great, but if you look at the 2nd half of the season last year, when he finally woke up (and started playing dominant), that is when UC turned the corner in the BE and really started playing well.

Bearcat Otto

12-01-2011, 11:48 AM

He still tends to stand around some and he dribbles away from the basket when he gets the ball on the blocks (this especially drives me crazy) to shoot a fadeaway, but he is getting better.

cmm27

12-01-2011, 01:35 PM

The fade away shot from two feet away from the rim drives me nuts.

Bearcat Otto

12-01-2011, 02:12 PM

When you are 6'9", 260# ANY fade away shot is not the right move!

GoBearcats31

12-01-2011, 04:17 PM

Can I ask the reason why Yancy is considered so dominant?

What are his career numbers? Are they really that irreplaceable?

Is he replaceable? Sure. But, running with the theme of this thread, as of today do you feel that confident that Jackson and Mbodj and Gaines can carry this team in the post next year without another legit big body in there?

coach

12-01-2011, 04:32 PM

I was making a point that the better you recruit, the better you are, and that fact isn't debatable. Sometimes you need to make the obvious examples to make a point. Of course, UC isn't in that tier. But as I stated in an earlier post, teams like USF, X, Providence, WV, and on and on, are getting better recruits than UC, and seem to be in the 2nd recruiting tier. UC seems to be in a 3rd or 4th tier, and this is cause for concern for the future.

I don't think we can afford to rationalize mediocre recruiting. It is possible to get great recruits to UC. There have been highly rated players that have committed here in the past, including under Mick. But the past couple of classes have been plain mediocre. I thought when Stephenson was signed, UC had turned the corner, but no recruits since that guy have been anything to be super excited about. And maybe 5k are showing up b/c the basketball is boring due to the fact that we don't have exciting players.

USF, X, Providence and Wv have not out recruited us over the period you have to look at which is the past 4 years.

Best Body

12-02-2011, 09:33 AM

USF, X, Providence and Wv have not out recruited us over the period you have to look at which is the past 4 years.

I would definately disagree with X. I would be on the fence with WV. If UC lands no one in 2012, I think the incredible class Providence has (1st in the BE) propels them to being equal from 2009-2012.

USF: I was really trying to make the point that if the worst (perhaps) program of the 16 currently in the BE can get a strong recruit.....

CincyEngGrad02

12-02-2011, 11:41 AM

Something you have to look at as well with WVU, is that they've landed Juwan Staten and Aaric Murray. Although not freshmen, they will both top 100 players in college basketball next year.

weez1414

12-02-2011, 05:57 PM

Something you have to look at as well with WVU, is that they've landed Juwan Staten and Aaric Murray. Although not freshmen, they will both top 100 players in college basketball next year.

Huggs is quietly putting a serious squad together for next year.

coach

12-02-2011, 09:42 PM

I would definately disagree with X. I would be on the fence with WV. If UC lands no one in 2012, I think the incredible class Providence has (1st in the BE) propels them to being equal from 2009-2012.

USF: I was really trying to make the point that if the worst (perhaps) program of the 16 currently in the BE can get a strong recruit.....

My friend. Do a little detail work. X, with whom you disagree with, had two of their freshman from last year's class leave after one year. Those are not another coaches recruits, those were mack's recruits. They are basically playing right now with two of miller's guys, frease and lyons, holloway, who they got from iu after sampson got canned, and several transfer players. Oh yea, i forgot, we missed out on griffin mackenzie. whoops.

Best Body

12-08-2011, 10:48 AM

My friend. Do a little detail work. X, with whom you disagree with, had two of their freshman from last year's class leave after one year. Those are not another coaches recruits, those were mack's recruits. They are basically playing right now with two of miller's guys, frease and lyons, holloway, who they got from iu after sampson got canned, and several transfer players. Oh yea, i forgot, we missed out on griffin mackenzie. whoops.

Why don't Miller's guys count toward X outrecruiting UC over the past handful of years? Also, X seems fairly loaded now, including freshman. Also they have a highly rated PG coming in next year. Aside from the name on the front of their uniforms, they have a great looking program right now.

cincycpaw

12-08-2011, 11:32 AM

My friend. Do a little detail work. X, with whom you disagree with, had two of their freshman from last year's class leave after one year. Those are not another coaches recruits, those were mack's recruits. They are basically playing right now with two of miller's guys, frease and lyons, holloway, who they got from iu after sampson got canned, and several transfer players. Oh yea, i forgot, we missed out on griffin mackenzie. whoops.

Here's the reality. Mick has under-performed as a recruiter. Let's see how he does this year as a coach and teacher. He better do well.

DBSUC1982

12-08-2011, 03:53 PM

Could we just sign ONE pure-shooting zone buster? Just ONE,... please?

waterhead

12-28-2011, 10:32 AM

Could we just sign ONE pure-shooting zone buster? Just ONE,... please?

I get what you are saying here but I just wanted to point something out. Over last season and this one Killa and Wright have been making threes at .391 and .377 respectively. Both are above 40% this year with the meat of the schedule still to come I realize. In relation to career averages...here are the top 5 bearcats...

Williams .401
Burton .394
Durden .385
Logan .378
Van Exel .358

Now I am not saying Killa or Wright can make some of the shots that these guys did...in your face with quick release. But...I don't think a pure zone buster is a do or die priority. We have Killa, Wright, Dixon, Parker, Guyn, Davis, Sanders...all seem to be "capable" of knocking down 35% or more. Right now it would be the least of my concerns. If I had a choice between C, PF, SF, SG, PG...I would take a top notch C or PF first...then PG or SF. SG would be last on my list this year.

weez1414

12-29-2011, 04:35 PM

I get what you are saying here but I just wanted to point something out. Over last season and this one Killa and Wright have been making threes at .391 and .377 respectively. Both are above 40% this year with the meat of the schedule still to come I realize. In relation to career averages...here are the top 5 bearcats...

Williams .401
Burton .394
Durden .385
Logan .378
Van Exel .358

Now I am not saying Killa or Wright can make some of the shots that these guys did...in your face with quick release. But...I don't think a pure zone buster is a do or die priority. We have Killa, Wright, Dixon, Parker, Guyn, Davis, Sanders...all seem to be "capable" of knocking down 35% or more. Right now it would be the least of my concerns. If I had a choice between C, PF, SF, SG, PG...I would take a top notch C or PF first...then PG or SF. SG would be last on my list this year.

With any ex CAT you named and I know their the best of the best, I just don't have the confidence when the ball goes up that I had with who you named. When Wright and Killa shoot i'm still a little stunned when it goes in. You could throw Bobbitt in also I don't know the numbers but when he shot I felt good as with the others. But I'll take a sharpshooter anyday.

waterhead

12-29-2011, 07:43 PM

I get what you are saying but Killa is still early in his sophomore season and is our leading scorer and has a very good 3 point ratio. I am going to withold judgement until about midway through next season:) I am not stunned by any means when his shots fall...quite the opposite with me.

GoCats1994

12-30-2011, 10:00 AM

With any ex CAT you named and I know their the best of the best, I just don't have the confidence when the ball goes up that I had with who you named. When Wright and Killa shoot i'm still a little stunned when it goes in. You could throw Bobbitt in also I don't know the numbers but when he shot I felt good as with the others. But I'll take a sharpshooter anyday.

It's because we remember Williams, Burton, Durden, Logan & Van Exel as being "clutch". The current group of Bearcats simply don't yet have that many wins or big-game memorable moments under their belts.

B-Team

01-01-2012, 10:06 PM

Is he replaceable? Sure. But, running with the theme of this thread, as of today do you feel that confident that Jackson and Mbodj and Gaines can carry this team in the post next year without another legit big body in there?

Interesting post to reflect back upon now (one month later).

With how things have gone over the past month, I think we'll be looking at some version of the 4-guard lineup being implemented full-go next year.

That being said, how comfortable do you now feel with the post men being Jackson, Gaines, and Moodj? Regardless, I think they'll still pick up at least one big man for next year, but I guess their play over the last 6 games at least gives me some hope heading into next season.

cmm27

01-02-2012, 08:17 AM

Why wouldn't Ellis be in that mix?

B-Team

01-02-2012, 08:52 AM

Whoops, just forgot about Ellis when posting that last night!

GoBearcats31

01-02-2012, 08:53 AM

Interesting post to reflect back upon now (one month later).

With how things have gone over the past month, I think we'll be looking at some version of the 4-guard lineup being implemented full-go next year.

That being said, how comfortable do you now feel with the post men being Jackson, Gaines, and Moodj? Regardless, I think they'll still pick up at least one big man for next year, but I guess their play over the last 6 games at least gives me some hope heading into next season.

Yes, interesting to look back on what I said. Still don't know much about Mbodj, but if he can play up to the potential (what we saw in flashes earlier), I wouldn't be as concerned as I might have been. Could still see Mick going after a juco, but maybe now a frosh big wouldn't be so bad. Gaines will be important. Mick said in post-game radio show last night that Gaines wasn't really ready for situation to play late last night. Hopefully he's ready next year!

I feel comfortable with the four guards next year, but someone will need to fill the role of Dixon (someone who can get to the rim, someone who can score, etc.). Dixon is replaceable, but not sure if Guyn can jump into that role right now with Cash, Parker, Kilpatrick. Certainly a great defensive player in the making, but needs to continue to improve his offensive game. I'd at least like to see a solid guard added to the mix who can at least contribute major minutes when Parker and Wright are graduated.

None of this is negative, just addressing some things. But I'm not really looking too much ahead as I want to keep enjoying this year's team. But obviously recruiting is a year-round part of Mick's job.

bearcat josh

01-02-2012, 09:53 AM

Im hoping Shaq Thomas can fill that void a little bit next year. Known as a slasher and a high flyer. Gaines development is gonna be important for this program. I believe he will become a very useful player for the Cats. He seems to have good work ethic and wants to get better. I would like them to pick up that big man Obekpa. He will be at the UC/Louisville game, hopefully he comes away impressed.

GoBearcats31

01-02-2012, 09:59 AM

Kindog202

01-02-2012, 06:31 PM

I think you see a starting lineup next year of Cash, SK, Parker, Thomas/Sanders and Mbodj/Jackson. This team next year will be even more suited to running the 4 guard offense...

Thewhiteboy

01-02-2012, 09:24 PM

2012 recruiting outlook

1G:Guyn-<ANOTHER
2G:Wright-Parker-JDavis
3G:Kilpatrick-Sanders
4G:Thomas-<ANOTHER
5C:JJackson-Mbodj-Gaines-Ellis

BearcatAlum1

01-02-2012, 11:05 PM

Thomas will be nice at the 3 or 4. Parker is probably better suited to play the "bigger" guard spot of the 4 guards...

Parker plays really good defense on post players, despite giving up 4-6 inches.

cincycpaw

01-03-2012, 10:10 AM

Parker plays really good defense on post players, despite giving up 4-6 inches.

He seems to have been the spark.

Thewhiteboy

01-10-2012, 03:02 PM

2012 recruiting outlook

1G:Guyn-<ANOTHER
2G:Wright-Parker-JDavis
3G:Kilpatrick-Sanders
4G:Thomas-<ANOTHER
5C:JJackson-Mbodj-Gaines-Ellis

I believe MickC and his coaching staff are great recruiters, They know
what ths need too bring in too make this team Bigeast finals next year.
combo guard
combo Forward/guard