Bottom Line - Talent AND Experience Upgrade

[bcatwilly]

Even with the last couple losses it seems that Mick has largely put to rest any concerns that he can't coach. And the team is definitely better than last season due to a talent infusion, and quite frankly just having more bodies available in general.

Having said that, Seton Hall started two legitimate Big East quality seniors today against the Bearcats to complement sophomore Eugene Harvey and some of their freshman etc. Jamar Nutter and Brian Laing have plenty of Big East experience and some talent to boot, recall Nutter being the same guy who helped knock off Coach Kennedy's squad on the road in the game that probably cost them an NCAA bid that year.

John Williamson is definitely not a bad player as a two year Bearcat player and now senior, and I really enjoy watching him commpete hard out there. Not having him on the court more today really hurt. Having said that, beyond Vaughn there just aren't other guys that have enough experience AND talent (the combination is key) to match on paper at least a team even like Seton Hall.

Which is why Mick does need to think long and hard about how best to hand out minutes the rest of the way because you definitely want some of the young talent to start getting some valuable experience.

[Thegreatone]

I agree with the post. Williamson is a true bearcat.

[Corporateballa]

Williamson is a consistent contributor. Warren would be a terrific backup PG. He has way too many holes in his game to be counted on for 30+ minutes per game. Adam H., Sikes, Gentry...well I am glad that they came here when we had nothing, but they are not BE talents. We have Vaughn and not much else right now.

If Mike Williams were playing, this team would be a lock for the NIT, and a bubble NIT team. They would have won today and vs. UCONN...not to mention Belmont and BGSU. In spite of that, Mick has this team at .500 in the BE after 8 games. Way to go guys! The future is bright.

Sent from my iPhone
Even with the last couple losses it seems that Mick
has largely put to rest any concerns that he can't coach. And the team is definitely better than last season due to a talent infusion, and quite frankly just having more bodies available in general.

Having said that, Seton Hall started two legitimate Big East quality seniors today against the Bearcats to complement sophomore Eugene Harvey and some of their freshman etc. Jamar Nutter and Brian Laing have plenty of Big East experience and some talent to boot, recall Nutter being the same guy who helped knock off Coach Kennedy's squad on the road in the game that probably cost them an NCAA bid that year.

John Williamson is definitely not a bad player as a two year Bearcat player and now senior, and I really enjoy watching him commpete hard out there. Not having him on the court more today really hurt. Having said that, beyond Vaughn there just aren't other guys that have enough experience AND talent (the combination is key) to match on paper at least a team even like Seton Hall.

Which is why Mick does need to think long and hard about how best to hand out minutes the rest of the way because you definitely want some of the young talent to start getting some valuable experience.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

(UC notes today) Senior point guard Jamual Warren tallied six assists and three turnovers against the Pirates to maintain his better than 2-to-1 assist to turnover ratio.

[Thegreatone]

Please dont over hype Jamal Warren BCF. He is the most over-rated player on this board by far. We wont be losing much next year without him.

[nolte50uc]

Please dont over hype Jamal Warren BCF. He is the most over-rated player on this board by far. We wont be losing much next year without him.

WOW! -was that posted to start a firestorm or do you really think that? JW will be the biggest loss next year, hands down.

[bearcatfan93]

Please dont over hype Jamal Warren BCF. He is the most over-rated player on this board by far. We wont be losing much next year without him.

have u been watching any bearcat games? when jamual isnt in the whole offense is out of sink. deonta cant get open etc. he creates things for the team

[mboston67]

I agree JW has been extremely valuable. But in my eyes. And this is completely my opinion. He has regressed the past 2 weeks. He's taking foolish shots, making silly passes, playin suspect D at times. No doubt since he came back he's been the glue. But something has happened in my eyes where he is not playing like the same player 2 weeks ago.

[OhioFootball]

I agree JW has been extremely valuable. But in my eyes. And this is completely my opinion. He has regressed the past 2 weeks. He's taking foolish shots, making silly passes, playin suspect D at times. No doubt since he came back he's been the glue. But something has happened in my eyes where he is not playing like the same player 2 weeks ago.

And what is UC's record in the last two weeks? Without Warren UC will probably have a major struggle early in the year and possibly another wasted year next year. It's not easy running a team at this level but it's an absolute necessity in order to win BE games.

[mboston67]

I agree.... IMO he needs to get back to running the offense not so much trying to create it. Also if Adam H misses one more shot off the glass I'm going to punch somthing......... again.

[tophat]

Warren has been indespensable to our resurgence, no question. His assertiveness and leadership have sparked this team. But his skills still fall short of what we need to compete the way we want to in the BE. Without a PG who's better able to shoot, score and create better for others, too much of the load will continue to fall on Vaughn. Warren also makes too many errors at critical junctures -- it's happened three games in a row. He nearly lost the Pitt game with late mistakes, he helped lose the UConn game with a really bad late mistake, and today he had three TOs within a short span in the 1st half when we lost offensive momentum. He had no TOs in the 2nd half because SH's pressure was much less then. Cash will have to make the adjustment, but he will be a significant upgrade.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Please dont over hype Jamal Warren BCF. He is the most over-rated player on this board by far. We wont be losing much next year without him.

Check UC record w/o Warren in November and early December, then compare it to UC's record with JW back in the lineup. You'll quicky see his value.

[GoCats1994]

UC now 2-18 on the road under Cronin.

I understand the need for talent. Although at some point, you have to start winning the close ones. Talent is usually not the deciding factor when the game is within one or two points and their are only a couple of minutes left. Coaching, desire, effort, etc also play into the mix.

In other words, I understand that the (lack of) talent has kept them from this point in competing on the road against some of the league's powerhouses. Although, I do not think it explains one-point losses last year (@ Providence, @ Syracuse) a 4-point loss last year (@ Rutgers), or a 3-point loss yesterday @ Seton Hall.

Trying not to be overly critical... I completely understand the building process. I would just like to see them continue to make progress. Yesterday, in my opinion, was a game you can put in the "should have" won category. They did not lose the game because of the lack of talent.

[STKohls]

Trying not to be overly critical... I completely understand the building process. I would just like to see them continue to make progress. Yesterday, in my opinion, was a game you can put in the "should have" won category. They did not lose the game because of the lack of talent.

You make some good points, but remember that Seton Hall had 2 starters scoreless until the waning minutes of the game, and others on their team were able to step up and hit big shots. When Williamson went out, and Vaughn struggled, who on UC had the talent to step up and hit big shots? Yes, Mitchell had 2 good 3 pointers, but Bishop and Gentry had 4 points between them, and both of our centers missed some crucial shots. I think some talent (or experience, in this case) would have made a tremendous difference yesterday.

[levydl]

You make some good points, but remember that Seton Hall had 2 starters scoreless until the waning minutes of the game, and others on their team were able to step up and hit big shots. When Williamson went out, and Vaughn struggled, who on UC had the talent to step up and hit big shots? Yes, Mitchell had 2 good 3 pointers, but Bishop and Gentry had 4 points between them, and both of our centers missed some crucial shots. I think some talent (or experience, in this case) would have made a tremendous difference yesterday.

Others on their team? Their starters scored all but 6 of their points. 3 of their starters accounted for 53 of their 64 points. UC's bench scored 20 points, by comparison.

[YouGuessedItFrankStallone]

UC now 2-18 on the road under Cronin.

I understand the need for talent. Although at some point, you have to start winning the close ones. Talent is usually not the deciding factor when the game is within one or two points and their are only a couple of minutes left. Coaching, desire, effort, etc also play into the mix.

In other words, I understand that the (lack of) talent has kept them from this point in competing on the road against some of the league's powerhouses. Although, I do not think it explains one-point losses last year (@ Providence, @ Syracuse) a 4-point loss last year (@ Rutgers), or a 3-point loss yesterday @ Seton Hall.

Trying not to be overly critical... I completely understand the building process. I would just like to see them continue to make progress. Yesterday, in my opinion, was a game you can put in the "should have" won category. They did not lose the game because of the lack of talent.

As much as I love our seniors, especially Williamson and Warren, the BEast is maybe the top conference in the nation, and a lot of people seem to forget that Mick is effectively taking a knife to a gunfight every night in conference play. Does anyone really think we won't see vastly improved results with all the current freshmen gaining a year of experience and the current Juco seniors replaced by the likes of Gates, Wright, and Williams? (Not to mention a rapidly rising superstar in Deonta).

If anything, I think Mick has worked wonders to make so many forget how un-talented (can't think of a nicer way to say it) the current roster is.

[Mick's Da Man]

I think Warren has been solid for this current team. But I will be more than happy if Cashmere Wright is a true PG and scorer. I know he will need some time, but honestly, other than McClain, both Cashmere and Gates are higher ranked than any player that came in this season. Bishop, Mitchell, LDavis, Belton were all ranked outside the top 100. McClain varied between about 50 and 80 on most recruiting sites. Wilks was an '08 recruit that got to move up. He was in the 50-70 range on most sites.

Wright is rumored to be moving up on some sites from the 70's range to much higher. So is Yancy. Yancy got dropped low on some sites, but is rumored to be moving back up. Both could be top 50 recruits before it is all said and done. But the proof will be in the pudding next year as to how much they contribute.

I think Cash's strength might be the issue with him.

[STKohls]

Others on their team? Their starters scored all but 6 of their points. 3 of their starters accounted for 53 of their 64 points. UC's bench scored 20 points, by comparison.

Yes, others, ie. Nutter, who scored 20 points (10 above his average) while shooting 80% on his 3-pointers. He may be a starter, but he's not one of Seton Hall's top 3 scorers. He still had the talent and experience to step up during a game when they needed him. If one of our starting non-scorers (Bishop, Warren, or Adam H) had thrown down 20 points, don't you think it would have been a different game?

In another year I'd expect Mitchell, Bishop, McClain or Davis to be able to step up and score 20 in any given game, but they're not there yet.

[levydl]

Yes, others, ie. Nutter, who scored 20 points (10 above his average) while shooting 80% on his 3-pointers. He may be a starter, but he's not one of Seton Hall's top 3 scorers. He still had the talent and experience to step up during a game when they needed him. If one of our starting non-scorers (Bishop, Warren, or Adam H) had thrown down 20 points, don't you think it would have been a different game?

In another year I'd expect Mitchell, Bishop, McClain or Davis to be able to step up and score 20 in any given game, but they're not there yet.

I thought you meant others besides their starters stepped up. Nutter's a 5th year senior who's in his 3rd year averaging double figures. And he's their 4th leading scorer. He's a pretty good player who scored 19 at Providence the game before.

[tophat]

UC now 2-18 on the road under Cronin.

I understand the need for talent. Although at some point, you have to start winning the close ones. Talent is usually not the deciding factor when the game is within one or two points and their are only a couple of minutes left. Coaching, desire, effort, etc also play into the mix.

In other words, I understand that the (lack of) talent has kept them from this point in competing on the road against some of the league's powerhouses. Although, I do not think it explains one-point losses last year (@ Providence, @ Syracuse) a 4-point loss last year (@ Rutgers), or a 3-point loss yesterday @ Seton Hall.

Trying not to be overly critical... I completely understand the building process. I would just like to see them continue to make progress. Yesterday, in my opinion, was a game you can put in the "should have" won category. They did not lose the game because of the lack of talent.


With all due respect, this is absurd. Talent ususally IS a deciding factor in a close game. That's when you need blue chip players to make big plays, which is precisely our problem: we only have ONE guy who currently fits that description, and the opposing team recognizes that only too well. Look around the BE and tell me how many teams you see with only ONE double figure scorer. It's rediculous. If we were losing by 20 or 30, people would cite that as evidence Mick can't coach. Now that he's got this team to where it's competitive in most of these games, in spite of obvious deficiencies, the close scores are cited as evidence he can't coach. It's alot harder to overcome personnel deficiencies on the road.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I think Warren has been solid for this current team. But I will be more than happy if Cashmere Wright is a true PG and scorer. I know he will need some time, but honestly, other than McClain, both Cashmere and Gates are higher ranked than any player that came in this season. Bishop, Mitchell, LDavis, Belton were all ranked outside the top 100. McClain varied between about 50 and 80 on most recruiting sites. Wilks was an '08 recruit that got to move up. He was in the 50-70 range on most sites.

Wright is rumored to be moving up on some sites from the 70's range to much higher. So is Yancy. Yancy got dropped low on some sites, but is rumored to be moving back up. Both could be top 50 recruits before it is all said and done. But the proof will be in the pudding next year as to how much they contribute.

I think Cash's strength might be the issue with him.

Agree. Warren is GOOD but Wright will be BETTER. Bob Gibbons (THE BEST) has Gates #26 and Wright #69 in the 2008 class. He compares UC's 2 recruits to DUKE and KENTUCKY (best 2-man recruiting classes), not bad!

[ME80]

Agree. Warren is GOOD but Wright will be BETTER. Bob Gibbons (THE BEST) has Gates #26 and Wright #69 in the 2008 class. He compares UC's 2 recruits to DUKE and KENTUCKY (best 2-man recruiting classes), not bad!

I also think Warren does a decent job as PG. One of things that hurts the Bearcats now and has in the past also is when the PG is not a scoring threat. Let's face it, opposing teams do not view Warren as a large threat on the offensive end so doubling Vaughn becomes an easier thing to do. There is a fine line when playing the point, you need to distribute the ball effectively but at the same time take advantage of what the defense gives; and if they give the point guard a chance he should be able and confident enough to burn them. With this all said, I do believe that Warren has not been as aggresive over the last few games, maybe the flu is still sticking with him.

[BasketBySteveLogan]

You guys wouldnt be saying any of this if we had pulled out these 2 games.. we lost by 1 and by 3 in tough games....

It's a young team in a brutal conference...

Youre gonna have stretches like this... Mick is doing an outstanding job

To start 4-4 against these 8 teams is pretty remarkable all things considered

[Mick's Da Man]

Nobody is criticizing Mick.

I've been concerned about the one dimensional offense most of the season. I saw this coming. I'm just surprised we only lost by 3 to Seton Hall considering Vaughn shot terribly and Williamson went out with the groin injury. Pretty remarkable to be honest.