Withrow vs. Glen Este

[the_one_32]

went to the game last night (i really went to watch my colerain cards get beat) and was really looking forward to seeing a good game but withrow was just playing around in the 1st half and then turned it on in the 2nd half. Glen este's tallest player was maybe 6'2" or 6'3" and at times they quadruple teamed yancy gates who seemed not interested in playing defense at all ( i dont blame him). But all this talk of him being lazy is ridiculous because what i saw was his teammates forgetting that your best player should touch the ball everytime down court. Instead the other guys like to run down court take a stupid crazy layup for jack up a three. I dont blame yancy at all for gettin frustrated i blame his teammates for being to nieve.

And to my surprise I saw a total of 7 UC players last night... in the stands was Darnell Wilks, Anthony McClain (saw anthony stand next to yancy and is anthony is 6'11" then yancy is 6'10"), Alvin Mitchell (whom assistant coach larry davis talked to for about an hour), Rashad Bishop, I saw kenny belton outside tryin to get in the doors before the steps i guess to go lift weights and he was locked out... finally i saw jamual warren wondering outside the arena.

[Catmandu]

At least Mitchell is still around!

[boxout]

Sounds like a lot of team support!!! The more I hear about Gates the more I think if he went to St. Anthoony's in NJ he would've been a McDonald's ALL AMERICAN... Cincy kids seem to never get in unless they do all teh summer camps... Just my opinion..

[Irishbearcat]

Playing on the AAU teams, and going to the shoe camps (Nike) helps alot.

[the_one_32]

alvin seemed to be in a bad mood he didnt speak very much... anthony looked quiet as well, rashad looked like the jokester and darnell was animated especially when a white boy from glen este threw down a nasty dunk at the end of the 1st half when a half court shot fell short and he came from the other side of the rim and dunked it although it didnt count

[Kindog202]

Any idea on Yancey's numbers from the game last night?

[the_one_32]

yancy had 12 points, 6 rebounds, and a couple of blocked shots but i mean he should have scored 40 if he teammates would have gotten him the ball i mean he had low post position every time down the floor and just held his man down on the block like he was a 3 year old... but he did have some powerful dunks

[tophat]

Anthony is 7' tall. They've measured him at that height. Several people have stated that Gates is 6'10''.

[Bearcat_NTS]

Yancy had 12 points and six rebounds

[cincyjmax54]

went to the game last night (i really went to watch my colerain cards get beat) and was really looking forward to seeing a good game but withrow was just playing around in the 1st half and then turned it on in the 2nd half. Glen este's tallest player was maybe 6'2" or 6'3" and at times they quadruple teamed yancy gates who seemed not interested in playing defense at all ( i dont blame him). But all this talk of him being lazy is ridiculous because what i saw was his teammates forgetting that your best player should touch the ball everytime down court. Instead the other guys like to run down court take a stupid crazy layup for jack up a three. I dont blame yancy at all for gettin frustrated i blame his teammates for being to nieve.

And to my surprise I saw a total of 7 UC players last night... in the stands was Darnell Wilks, Anthony McClain (saw anthony stand next to yancy and is anthony is 6'11" then yancy is 6'10"), Alvin Mitchell (whom assistant coach larry davis talked to for about an hour), Rashad Bishop, I saw kenny belton outside tryin to get in the doors before the steps i guess to go lift weights and he was locked out... finally i saw jamual warren wondering outside the arena.



WOW...we're we watching the same game. Yancy Gates is the biggest waste of talent I have ever seen. He did one thing the entire night. He put himself in a position to dunk the ball. He did not move on offense, he played defense when the ball came to him. He stood at the top of the key waiting to cherry pick. He tossed up about 3 airballs while he was double teamed in the corner. I have never seen a lazier player in my life. After not touching the ball 5 or 6 possesions instead of saying something on the bench, he goes over to yell at his teammates while the ball is in the air after he wasnt the one shooting. Yancy wasnt even the best player on the court for his team. The big boy on the other block was incredibly more productive. Yancy Gates has all the tools if he put forth any effort. I am not taking away his athleticism or size because its an incredible package, but he is a waste of talent. When he was on the bench he was just lounging around not paying any attention to the game as if his feces didnt stink. Withrow should have played with 4. All Yancy did was dunk the ball when he had the oppertunity to. However, they were thunderous.

[SLMadiCat]

Coming from the same guy who said McElroy is a horrible player...hmmm.

[MDW79]

Trust me, he's the best player on his team.

[SLMadiCat]

And McElroy is not horrible...and Mick Cronin is a better coach then the men's and women's Woodward JV coach...and it was a good idea to play the best player as opposed to playing all the Freshman..I could go on and on.

It's funny to hear someone say that about the person who is the best player in Cincinnati (Player of the year this year, I believe) who often plays against terrible competition, be called a waste of talent. What did he do against Moeller, what did he do against BJ Mullens, what did he do against Semardo Samuels?

[MDW79]

Good point. BJ Mullins, the cant miss 7 footer was held to somthing like 14 pts 16 rbs while Yancy had something like 28pts and 13rbs. He probably gets somewhat bored at the prep level. Everyone knows AAU is where these guys make their mark and get noticed. This will sound ridiculous, and it is, but once these guys sign their LOI, if it's Nov of their senior year, what motivation do they have to really do anything but try not to get hurt? I'm sure they want to win but night in and out Yancy competition is probably just isnt very motivating. Him getting fired up for playing against some Glen Este kids would be like UC getting fired up to play against NKU's women's team.

[MikeInClifton]

Yancy wasnt even the best player on the court for his team. The big boy on the other block was incredibly more productive. Yancy Gates has all the tools if he put forth any effort.

Gates has historically played up to the competition. In the game against American Christian, he was very active. I've seen equal number of lazy games and good effort games from him.

Withrow is favored to beat Talawanda and their next opponent would be Oak Hills (17-5). If Withrow wins that, plan on attending the game on March 5th at 8pm at the Cintas. This will likely be Elder (17-4) or HH Wayne (20-2).

[Kindog202]

I agree completely, I don't think we'll see him goofing around if they are playing Moeller, Elder or St. X. Yancy seems like a bright enough kid to understand that he won't be able to goof around next year at UC.

[Kindog202]

So, what do you think Mike? Is Yancy a lazy player because he is so much better than the competition most nights? Do you think that will be a problem next year or can we expect him to play hard all the time?

[BearcatCJR23]

My take on Yancy for next year is that right not it's a coin flip on how he will react. I would not be surprised if he came in and was lazy and didn't meet expectations as a freshman (as alot of UC freshman have, not a big deal, its being a freshman, learning the ropes). The only kids you see hustle in high school are those that don't have all the talent in the world and need a 100% effort to even compete. The list is long of high school athletes like Yancy will all the talent in the world that don't try in high school because they dont have to. He will be fine in college playing against better competition and if not, Mick will get on him and have him ride the pine and i think he will change quickly.

[cincyjmax54]

Well
1) After watching Gates and if that was my only game to judge him on...I would take McElroy any night over Gates.

2) I wasnt trying to say that Gates wasnt the best player on the team. I was saying last night there were 3 or 4 teammates that played way better. I thought that the other post player they had played way better.

All I am trying to say is that it was the laziest player I have ever seen. He looks like his head his ready to pop it is so big. I am thoroughly sure that when he gets his butt whipped next year by Kenny Belton, he will no longer be able to act the same. He will then become a great player based on his potential size and athleticism. For those of you who like to read my former posts...I think UC did hire a JV Woodward head coach that rode coattails of the great Bob Huggins and Rick Pitino. This year he has grown on me...as I think he is not as bad a coach as I once thought. He gets his guys to go hard for him. But for those of you who want to say I told you so...I dont really care because I had the right to complain and groan about Huggins firing because it was the worst program decision in the history of the university. They could have handled it in one hundred different ways....and Huggins still could have been fired for the haters.

I digress...

When I see a Division 1 recruit...they should stand out on the court. There should be no question right away. When you see a D 1 Big East recruit ranked in the top 15 of his class...you should spot them a mile away. McElroy and Gates have not met that criteria...or their hype. All I am saying is that last night I witnessed an incredible waste of talent. I can understand why he is rated high...but I havent seen much criticism and I thought I should throw my 2 cents in.

[Kindog202]

I also wanted to comment that I think it was a good sign that Mitchell was out watching the game yesterday. As big of a disappointment as he has been this year, I still have confidence that he can be a significant contributor down the road for us. I hope he realizes it and makes the necessary adjustments as Hicks did after returning to the team during his freshman year. He has a chance to be a part of some very special teams over the next few years if he wants to.

[NorrisHopper30]

Gates does play up to competition, he went 20/12 against Moeller I believe. Also, I guess i'm missing what you all see in McElroy. I've seen him play 4 times over the years and he looks the same now as he did at the beginning of sophomore year. His stats seems to increase though when he's not playing in the GCL.

[BasketBySteveLogan]

Hey CincyJMax54... reading your posts make my brain hurt.. a lot

Why would Yancy go full out 100% against a team of little white guys when the game is meaningless? It's basically just a case of Senior-itis... just because he's a highly ranked recruit doesnt mean he's not a human being like us

My senior year I got accepted to college in the fall, and I slept thru classes, skipped classes, and never studied for any tests or anything the rest of the way. Most people do that. Yeah it's lazy but big deal.

Also, this was the ONLY game you have seen him, right? And you're already dubbing him "the laziest player" you have ever seen...

Ever seen BJ Grove before buddy?

Not surprised though with your early jumping to conclusions habit... thinking Mick Cronin road coat tails and all that *****... totally ignoring his obvious recruiting success and of course his success at Murray St...

[Scheids21]

I havent seen yancy play but I hear hes phenomenal (IF he tries that is). I HAVE seen Mcelroy play and he is less than impressive. Still a junior, but has a lot to do before he sees a minute on the court for the cats.

[cincyjmax54]

You can defend his laziness if you want to but what about the airballs from behind the arc fading away one pass into a possesion. Glen Este boxed out well but it seemed as if you slightly put a body on him he quit. He might have left his feet once or twice for a dunk and a blocked shot underneath his chin but that was about all. I can remember maybe one time he jumped for a rebound and it wasnt because he was in good position. Say what you want and maybe if you see Yancy from the stands he'l give you a high five or something at UC but for other than that reason you act like hes your buddy or something. Why defend a horrible basketball player because nerds have him ranked high on recruiting pages. I am not trying to say he is a bad recruit. He is an absolute monster and quite the athlete. Most of that supercedes his horrible instincts and decisions but watch the game once in awhile. He was a whiner with a horrible attitude. It is becoming more and more typical to forget about the game and more about the numbers and rankings.

[Corporateballa]

I've seen him play 20 times over the last 3 years. He is a pro. Unique blend of size, skill, and athleticism. No wasted talent...his talent will make him a millionaire.


Well
1) After watching Gates and if that was my only game to judge him on...I would take McElroy any night over Gates.

2) I wasnt trying to say that Gates wasnt the best player on the team. I was saying last night there were 3 or 4 teammates that played way better. I thought that the other post player they had played way better.

All I am trying to say is that it was the laziest player I have ever seen. He looks like his head his ready to pop it is so big. I am thoroughly sure that when he gets his butt whipped next year by Kenny Belton, he will no longer be able to act the same. He will then become a great player based on his potential size and athleticism. For those of you who like to read my former posts...I think UC did hire a JV Woodward head coach that rode coattails of the great Bob Huggins and Rick Pitino. This year he has grown on me...as I think he is not as bad a coach as I once thought. He gets his guys to go hard for him. But for those of you who want to say I told you so...I dont really care because I had the right to complain and groan about Huggins firing because it was the worst program decision in the history of the university. They could have handled it in one hundred different ways....and Huggins still could have been fired for the haters.

I digress...

When I see a Division 1 recruit...they should stand out on the court. There should be no question right away. When you see a D 1 Big East recruit ranked in the top 15 of his class...you should spot them a mile away. McElroy and Gates have not met that criteria...or their hype. All I am saying is that last night I witnessed an incredible waste of talent. I can understand why he is rated high...but I havent seen much criticism and I thought I should throw my 2 cents in.

[SLMadiCat]

Why defend a horrible basketball player because nerds have him ranked high on recruiting pages.

Seriously, save face and stop posting. Horrible basketball player?

[cincyjmax54]

Horrible fundamentals...all he has is athleticism...if anyone has the game tape please let me know. I would love for you to point some things out for me. Might as well take my word for it. 12 points and 6 rebounds against a team with no one over 6"3. You tell me where his priorities are. I think he had like 3 or 4 dunks. Hmmm... what was he doing the whole game. Could it have been sulking and whining at teammates until he could put up another bad shot? Or was he waiting at the top of the key to cherry pick to please the crowd?

I would be happy to just hear that it was a fluke and things are going bad because of team issues and his suspension but instead I havent heard one good argument.

[BearcatCJR23]

Yancy Gates has been dominant, is dominant and will continue to be dominant. He will come to play 100% when he has a lot to play for and is not playing with and against lower level talent. CincyJMax54, have you ever heard of Michael Beasely. I do believe he got knocked for his effort too in high school. He's a pretty good player, I suppose, hahahaha. He shows up with effort occassionally (or every night). I am not saying Gates will be him, just saying lack of effort in big time players is very common in high school, so drop the knock against him. He plays to the level of his opponents talent like everyone does.

As for McElroy, he will be a solid role player. Is he going to be an all american? No. He probably won't even be All Big East. He might be 7th/8th player on the team. Remember Josh Duncan? Not even the best player on his team his senior year. Averaged around 15ppg just like McElroy is. Very similar player but with a couple more inches in height than McElroy. Well, he developed a jump shot and beefed up quite a bit at Xavier and is a pretty good player now (i hate saying that). Imagine what the UC strength coaches will do with McElroy and he has another whole year at LaSalle. Its not often a GCL player averages 25 ppg or is a big time standout. They play top level talent night in and night out and have very solid players around them that can score too. McElroy will be a solid overall contributor.

[SLMadiCat]

Horrible fundamentals...all he has is athleticism...if anyone has the game tape please let me know. I would love for you to point some things out for me. Might as well take my word for it. 12 points and 6 rebounds against a team with no one over 6"3. You tell me where his priorities are. I think he had like 3 or 4 dunks. Hmmm... what was he doing the whole game. Could it have been sulking and whining at teammates until he could put up another bad shot? Or was he waiting at the top of the key to cherry pick to please the crowd?

I would be happy to just hear that it was a fluke and things are going bad because of team issues and his suspension but instead I havent heard one good argument.

Might as well take your word for it? Go back and look as all your previous posts. Or just scroll up to see mine, I summed up most of your posts pretty well. I'm not sure I'd ever take your word for it.

If you would be happy to just hear that it was a fluke, read what the other knowledgeable posters have to say. How about he outplayed the guys I've mentioned above, all whom are top 5 players in their class. Is that not enough?

[Thegreatone]

As CK (Carl Kremer) has said he is the most talented player he has ever coached against and he is the best coach in Ohio and has played against Top D-1 talent and future NBA players.

[dp3113]

No one said he will be bad at UC. All they said is he is lazy. Quit defending his laziness and making excuses. What has the kid done? he hasn't won any titles, he has no reason to be "bored with competition" when he has never proven to dominate D1.

I can maybe see that argument for Lebron in high school, since he had titles his freshman and sophomore year. Yancy doesn't even come close.

And the Beasley comparison- please. Beasley was the #1 high school player in America. don't even compare the two. Gates won't be coming close to averaging 27 pts and 12 boards a game like Beasley.

[the_one_32]

ok ima say this again it looked as though he played bad because honestly 99% of the time he was WIDE open in the post dominating his man and jus holdin him on the block but his teammates would rather chuck ugly threes up drive the lane and throw a bad pass... rule #1 in basketball is on offense your BEST player should touch the ball at LEAST once every time... look at lebron, kobe, michael jordan, eric gordon, tyler hansborough... every time they are on offense they touch the ball... yancy would have had 40 if he would have gotten the ball more and most the time his teammates would throw up threes without warning leaving him in no position to rebound... anyone go to the game? did u see the white boy dunk?

[MDW79]

I'm looking to see him play here. I cant wait to see how he matches up with the Big East physical play. What kind of defense was Glen Este running with 6'3 post players and no scholarship talent? Whoever their coach is, he should a get D1 head coaching job NOW. Let's see how is here with some incentive and Mick and staff guiding him before you brand him lazy b/c you saw a couple b.s. HS games. If it's the State final, then maybe just maybe I care how hard he's trying. Funny, many people think he'll be gone in 2-3 years, but he's "not even the best player in his HS team."

[cincyjmax54]

No one said he will be bad at UC. All they said is he is lazy. Quit defending his laziness and making excuses. What has the kid done? he hasn't won any titles, he has no reason to be "bored with competition" when he has never proven to dominate D1.

I can maybe see that argument for Lebron in high school, since he had titles his freshman and sophomore year. Yancy doesn't even come close.

And the Beasley comparison- please. Beasley was the #1 high school player in America. don't even compare the two. Gates won't be coming close to averaging 27 pts and 12 boards a game like Beasley.

Thank you!...someone with some sense has spoke up. Carl Kremer gets the best athletes in the city for basketball. He and his assistants are quite the recruiters. Carl has a good lisp and thats about all. His assistants and Dan Ragland are the brains. Dave Caldwell is Glen Este's coach. They ran a lot of 3-2 zone. He is a great coach in his first year over there. The white boy dunk was sweet.

[BearcatCJR23]

No one said he will be bad at UC. All they said is he is lazy. Quit defending his laziness and making excuses. What has the kid done? he hasn't won any titles, he has no reason to be "bored with competition" when he has never proven to dominate D1.

I can maybe see that argument for Lebron in high school, since he had titles his freshman and sophomore year. Yancy doesn't even come close.

And the Beasley comparison- please. Beasley was the #1 high school player in America. don't even compare the two. Gates won't be coming close to averaging 27 pts and 12 boards a game like Beasley.


dp3113........here is my direct quote....."I am not saying Gates will be him, just saying lack of effort in big time players is very common in high school, so drop the knock against him." there was no comparison talent wise whatsoever, just that Beasely also got knocked for his effort too in high school.

[NorrisHopper30]

Thank you!...someone with some sense has spoke up. Carl Kremer gets the best athletes in the city for basketball. He and his assistants are quite the recruiters. Carl has a good lisp and thats about all. His assistants and Dan Ragland are the brains. Dave Caldwell is Glen Este's coach. They ran a lot of 3-2 zone. He is a great coach in his first year over there. The white boy dunk was sweet.

Moeller has two "athletes" on their varsity team. Withrow has more athletes than Moeller, Moeller is just better coached.

[Bearcat Jeff]

First of all it is amazing to me that we still get Huggins comments after 3 seasons. Mick Cronin is doing a tremendous job coaching at the University of Cincinnati. Any poster who discredits him simply does not know anything about college basketball. Every coach in this league acknowledges that Mick has this program way ahead of where it should be under the circumstances. Secondly, Yancey Gates is a tremendously gifted, talented player who is also lazy. However, most high school kids are because the elite ones get by on talent alone. That is what makes the adjustment to D1 so difficult for most of them. He is being recruited for his talent. The coaches job is to get him to play hard every play. That is more of a reflection on his coach than him in my opinion.

[Thegreatone]

His assistants and Dan Ragland are the brains. .

You have no idea how insane that quote is. Rags is my boy and all but the brains of anything is borderline insane. CK is the best coach in the state and it shows every year. His opinion of Yancy is one I respect because of his history.

[cincyjmax54]

You have no idea how insane that quote is. Rags is my boy and all but the brains of anything is borderline insane. CK is the best coach in the state and it shows every year. His opinion of Yancy is one I respect because of his history.

That was said tongue in cheek...I just like rags. Once again if you were at the game that I saw you would have seen Yancy Gates and laughed. That is my major point. You would have laughed at him. The moping around, the whining, hes a punk with a bad attitude right now. I am sure based on his physical ability he will be able to dominate when he wants to. But as a former high school basketball player myself, or anything that I did for that matter in sports, I always tried my best and worked hard. I did not take any games as jokes or whine and complain to teammates on the other end of the court. It was humerous to me. He thought he was the Don of basketball or something when he wasnt even playing as the best player on his team on this particular night.

[cincyjmax54]

First of all it is amazing to me that we still get Huggins comments after 3 seasons. Mick Cronin is doing a tremendous job coaching at the University of Cincinnati. Any poster who discredits him simply does not know anything about college basketball. Every coach in this league acknowledges that Mick has this program way ahead of where it should be under the circumstances. Secondly, Yancey Gates is a tremendously gifted, talented player who is also lazy. However, most high school kids are because the elite ones get by on talent alone. That is what makes the adjustment to D1 so difficult for most of them. He is being recruited for his talent. The coaches job is to get him to play hard every play. That is more of a reflection on his coach than him in my opinion.

If you read my post earlier I said that Mick has suprised me and I think he has done a better job than I expected so far. He gets his guys to play pretty hard for him. What I was knocking was not Mick...but the way the program handled the situation by throwing us under the dumpster for 3 years. You cannot recruit without knowledge of who the coach will be the following year. We did it to Huggins for the last years of his tenure as well as Andy Kennedy. It could have been handled a hundred different ways and for that reason I feel it is necessary to bitch about it until the program was back on its feet. I feel we are in pretty decent shape now and Mick has done a nice job. But dont tell me I told you so, because it still took 3 years by no fault of Cronin.

[cincyjmax54]

Moeller has two "athletes" on their varsity team. Withrow has more athletes than Moeller, Moeller is just better coached.

Michael Davenport is the best athlete in the GCL. Tony Harris is quite the athlete. Tony Rack is no slouch. Quinn McDowel is an athlete. They also have a little size. Matt Roberts is 6"10 and Wulker is at least 6"7 I believe. McDowel is 6'6. That part isnt coaching. Sussli is the real brains. They only have about 8 coaches. Let's just say it isnt the man with the lisp that gets it all done. If you put Flemming or any other decent coach with that roster they are going to win state championships too.

[Bearcat Jeff]

If you read my post earlier I said that Mick has suprised me and I think he has done a better job than I expected so far. He gets his guys to play pretty hard for him. What I was knocking was not Mick...but the way the program handled the situation by throwing us under the dumpster for 3 years. You cannot recruit without knowledge of who the coach will be the following year. We did it to Huggins for the last years of his tenure as well as Andy Kennedy. It could have been handled a hundred different ways and for that reason I feel it is necessary to bitch about it until the program was back on its feet. I feel we are in pretty decent shape now and Mick has done a nice job. But dont tell me I told you so, because it still took 3 years by no fault of Cronin.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I agree it could have been handled much better and agree we are on the right track now.

[MikeInClifton]

Lets focus on the words and not the writers of the words, folks.

[MikeInClifton]

Michael Davenport is the best athlete in the GCL. Tony Harris is quite the athlete. Tony Rack is no slouch. Quinn McDowell is an athlete. They also have a little size. Matt Roberts is 6"10 and [Daniel] Wulker is at least 6"7 I believe. McDowell is 6'6. That part isnt coaching. Sussli is the real brains. They only have about 8 coaches. Let's just say it isnt the man with the lisp that gets it all done. If you put Flemming or any other decent coach with that roster they are going to win state championships too.

As a side note, all of the above players listed in bold played for Alex Meacham's Shining Star AAU program last spring and summer.

Wulker was part of the team that finished 7th in the country at AAU Nationals last July and McDowell and Rack were on the team the won the State of Ohio AAU Championship last year.

[NorrisHopper30]

If you put Flemming or any other decent coach with that roster they are going to win state championships too.

Fleming can't even control his own players, the talent on Moeller was nowhere near what St Edwards had last year, but Moeller's coaching won it. Eds had 4 high D1 (Michigan State, Indiana, Pitt (he transferred to CSU though), and that freshman that transferred to Oak Hill Academy) prospects on that team.

[NorrisHopper30]

Yancy Gates had 33 points 15 rebounds and 4 blocks and lead Withrow to an OT win over Talawanda tonight.

[the_one_32]

yeah wat a waste of talent huh.... everyone who said that needs to apologize

[cincyjmax54]

hmmm...maybe he tried this game. Thats encouraging. I wasn't at the game but thats better than 12 and 6. Im sorry boys.

[NorrisHopper30]

I guess he reads BearcatNews.