David Stern and Miles Brand agree to two year limit

[jkwuc89]

On my way back to work after lunch, I was listening to ESPN Radio and unless I misheard it, it appears that NBA commissioner David Stern and NCAA President Miles Brand have agreed to increase the NBA age limit to 20 which would effectively require college players to stay in school for two years.

The NBA has a right through its CBA to set an age limit. The NFL does this and an attempt to challenge it which reached the U.S. Supreme Court failed. So, the NBA has a pretty strong legal precedent in their back pocket if someone decides to challenge this.

[CincyBeerCo]

On my way back to work after lunch, I was listening to ESPN Radio and unless I misheard it, it appears that NBA commissioner David Stern and NCAA President Miles Brand have agreed to increase the NBA age limit to 20 which would effectively require college players to stay in school for two years.

The NBA has a right through its CBA to set an age limit. The NFL does this and an attempt to challenge it which reached the U.S. Supreme Court failed. So, the NBA has a pretty strong legal precedent in their back pocket if someone decides to challenge this.

Thats great news for everyone....except that talented 19 year old that blows his knee out and misses out on millions.

[SLMadiCat]

I'm not a big fan of this decision for the athletes, though I'm sure it helps the NBA. I'm not sure what it'd do for the NCAA.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I think it is wonderful. It will help players develop better and be more mature upon entering the NBA. It'll also help put an end to the parasite agents preying on 18 year old kids.

[jeffto]

I'm not a big fan of this decision for the athletes, though I'm sure it helps the NBA. I'm not sure what it'd do for the NCAA.
It helps the elite teams the most. They get their 5 star one&done's for another year. Goodbye parity.

[Lobot]

On my way back to work after lunch, I was listening to ESPN Radio and unless I misheard it, it appears that NBA commissioner David Stern and NCAA President Miles Brand have agreed to increase the NBA age limit to 20 which would effectively require college players to stay in school for two years.

The NBA has a right through its CBA to set an age limit. The NFL does this and an attempt to challenge it which reached the U.S. Supreme Court failed. So, the NBA has a pretty strong legal precedent in their back pocket if someone decides to challenge this.

This doesn't surprise me since I had heard it was coming a few weeks ago. However I think it increases the chance of the one and done types taking off for Europe for their first two years just for the money and then declaring for the draft two years later. I think this is basically going to become a grey market for the players. I know if I were in some sort of family financial difficulty or just greedy, I'd hire a European agent and hop a plane.

[jkwuc89]

I will readily admit a strong bias towards college basketball over the NBA. Matter of fact, I don't much care for NBA basketball at all. The only time I might watch a game is during the playoffs. So, I really like this decision. I want to see the top players go to college and stay in college. I think it makes the college game better.

[cincycpaw]

It helps the elite teams the most. They get their 5 star one&done's for another year. Goodbye parity.

Interesting point.

But it could also help some of the fringe teams that hit the jackpot with a player build into a more consistant program. Still the big schools, but the non-elite programs.

[jeffto]

This doesn't surprise me since I had heard it was coming a few weeks ago. However I think it increases the chance of the one and done types taking off for Europe for their first two years just for the money and then declaring for the draft two years later. I think this is basically going to become a grey market for the players. I know if I were in some sort of family financial difficulty or just greedy, I'd hire a European agent and hop a plane.They'd probably make more money going to tOSU. :D

But seriously, I hadn't thought of that angle. It does make sense. But then again there's the old cliche: Out of sight, out of mind.

[OhioFootball]

This is huge news for the elite programs like UCLA, UNC, and Kansas.

[SLMadiCat]

Interesting point.

But it could also help some of the fringe teams that hit the jackpot with a player build into a more consistant program. Still the big schools, but the non-elite programs.

But they might have a harder time hitting the jackpot if the player knows that now he has to be there two years. They might decide to play it safe with the elite programs.

[Lobot]

They'd probably make more money going to tOSU. :D

But seriously, I hadn't thought of that angle. It does make sense. But then again there's the old cliche: Out of sight, out of mind.

They aren't out of mind. Half the players in the draft are Europeans at this point. Bargnani went first last year I believe.

[jeffto]

Interesting point.

But it could also help some of the fringe teams that hit the jackpot with a player build into a more consistant program. Still the big schools, but the non-elite programs.Good point - I was too narrow in my definition. The big gainers would be the teams that get a McD's AA or two (or three) year in and year out, but any team that got one of those players will definitely benefit from the rule change.

[jeffto]

They aren't out of mind. Half the players in the draft are Europeans at this point. Bargnani went first last year I believe.I wasn't thinking so much the NBA scouts, but rather the market value of a high profile college career. To a lot of these kids the NBA paycheck is becoming less important than the ancillary deals - shoes, etc. They want to "Be like Mike."

Europe won't build that market value as much as a high profile college career.

[Doss]

and many other who were not really ready.

Thats great news for everyone....except that talented 19 year old that blows his knee out and misses out on millions.

[Bearcat Jeff]

On my way back to work after lunch, I was listening to ESPN Radio and unless I misheard it, it appears that NBA commissioner David Stern and NCAA President Miles Brand have agreed to increase the NBA age limit to 20 which would effectively require college players to stay in school for two years.

The NBA has a right through its CBA to set an age limit. The NFL does this and an attempt to challenge it which reached the U.S. Supreme Court failed. So, the NBA has a pretty strong legal precedent in their back pocket if someone decides to challenge this.
When does this go into effect? Is it beginning next season?

[jeffto]

When does this go into effect? Is it beginning next season?
The last I read it was 2011, but I believe it must be approved by the player's union. They'll probably rubber stamp it since it also helps current players stay in the game a little longer.

[shaunsimpson]

Standing in line for lunch so sorry if this point has been made.....this helps the middle and bottom of the 1st teir. Instead of stockpiling talent year in and out it will give these teams the four and five star players who don't want to play behind a 1 snd done player.

Can a 18 year old go to the NBADL? They do have Europe to go to. Koufos from OSU was offered 3 mill last year to play in Greece. There are other avenues if they don't want to play in college. Playing in the NBA is not a right.

[Flanntastic]

so North Carolina, ucla, memphis, kansas and Duke will get richer, it helps them allot, hurts everybody else

[jkwuc89]

Unless the NBA Players Union and the owners prematurely reopen the CBA for this and other issues, a new age limit cannot go into effect until the next CBA is negotiated and signed.

[jeffto]

Unless the NBA Players Union and the owners prematurely reopen the CBA for this and other issues, a new age limit cannot go into effect until the next CBA is negotiated and signed.And I believe that would be for the 2011 season.

[Bcatfan08]

I like this a lot. This will help both the NCAA and NBA out. Either you have them stay in college for two years or not at all. One year is silly because the kids don't even go to school for that one year if they are going pro. If they have to go for two years then they'll be forced to actually attend classes to play. This also helps kids get developed and ready for the NBA game. Then we don't have kids like DaJuan Wagner and Sebastian Telfair go pro and ride the bench for the majority of their careers.

The arguement saying that this hurts the kid that's ready and gets a career ending injury is pretty weak. This isn't football. Just name me the last time a kid stayed an extra season in college basketball and had a career ending injury that lost him millions. That arguement works in football, but isn't too realistic in basketball.

[qsilvr2531]

Standing in line for lunch so sorry if this point has been made.....this helps the middle and bottom of the 1st teir. Instead of stockpiling talent year in and out it will give these teams the four and five star players who don't want to play behind a 1 snd done player.

Can a 18 year old go to the NBADL? They do have Europe to go to. Koufos from OSU was offered 3 mill last year to play in Greece. There are other avenues if they don't want to play in college. Playing in the NBA is not a right.

Neither is going to college, but schools aren't about to start holding their athletes to the same admission standards as the rest of the students?

This is another example of the NCAA looking out for itself rather than student athletes. Hopefully kids will start taking the Europe route, especially if they are being offered that kind of money (if Koufas turned that down he's absolutely crazy, especially if he leaves OSU after one year).

[Matt1982]

Age limits are stupid, professional sports should be about selecting the best available players in the world, which doesn't mean a player has to have loads of experience, Beasley, Durant, Oden, among many others prove that. I think the teams are pressured into taking these hyped freshmen because ESPN and the other sports media outlets with their "mock drafts" and all the other so called draft tools they come up with.

This is switching gears a bit, but one thing that has always bothered me is guarenteed money to college players signing into professional sports without having ever set foot on a professional court/field. You see in baseball with salary arbitration that players are rewarded based on performance deserving contracts, why then do we insist on paying multi million dollar contracts to college athletes who we have no idea what his ability will be against top tier competition.

[SLMadiCat]

I agree, I just don't see how it benefits the players. If they are ready then who cares how old they are?

[qsilvr2531]

I like this a lot. This will help both the NCAA and NBA out. Either you have them stay in college for two years or not at all. One year is silly because the kids don't even go to school for that one year if they are going pro. If they have to go for two years then they'll be forced to actually attend classes to play. This also helps kids get developed and ready for the NBA game. Then we don't have kids like DaJuan Wagner and Sebastian Telfair go pro and ride the bench for the majority of their careers.

The arguement saying that this hurts the kid that's ready and gets a career ending injury is pretty weak. This isn't football. Just name me the last time a kid stayed an extra season in college basketball and had a career ending injury that lost him millions. That arguement works in football, but isn't too realistic in basketball.

If a kid doesn't develop while practicing year round for an NBA team (as opposed to for about 6 months in college, and even then they spend far fewer hours per day than an NBA player does), he isn't going to develop his game in college. The benefits of playing in 30 games don't come close to outweighing the benefits of practicing year round, especially when you have access to the better facilities and coaching the NBA offers.

The success rate of HS players drafted by the NBA isn't any worse (I think it is actually better) than the success rate of the college guys that get drafted.

I agree with you that one year is silly. Forcing people to go to class when they have no desire to is also silly.

[jkwuc89]

Perhaps European football (a.k.a. soccer) has the correct model. Most of the big clubs have youth academies where young talent (think middle school) is brought in to train with the club's youth coaching staff. The players still attend school but their soccer training is guided by the professional club.

[qsilvr2531]

Perhaps European football (a.k.a. soccer) has the correct model. Most of the big clubs have youth academies where young talent (think middle school) is brought in to train with the club's youth coaching staff. The players still attend school but their soccer training is guided by the professional club.

Of the major US sports, I like baseballs system the best because it protects the athletes the most. However, the European system is very good as well.

[levydl]

I will readily admit a strong bias towards college basketball over the NBA. Matter of fact, I don't much care for NBA basketball at all. The only time I might watch a game is during the playoffs. So, I really like this decision. I want to see the top players go to college and stay in college. I think it makes the college game better.

Yes, who cares about these kids' lives. I like college basketball, so force them into college even when it's not needed or wanted.

[jkwuc89]

Let's do a little math, shall we?

There are now 316 schools playing D-1 basketball. If each school gives out its full allotment of scholarships (which we know is not true but for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that it is), that comes to 4,108 athletes receiving scholarships to play basketball.

Now, let's also assume for the sake of this discussion that for any given year, 1/4 of those playing college basketball either graduate or make themselves eligible for the NBA draft. That comes to 1,207 college athletes who are now eligible to be drafted.

There are currently 30 teams in the NBA. Each team gets two draft picks. That means that during any given year, just 60 players worldwide will be drafted. And of those, only first round selections totalling 30 get a guaranteed contract. Even though we know this is not true, for the sake of this post, we will assume that all 60 draftees are college athletes eligible for the draft.

Using the numbers above:


Only 5.8% of all eligible players will get drafted
Only 2.4% of all eligible players will get a guaranteed contract


That means that 97.6% or 1,177 athletes will not have a guaranteed future in the NBA. For those that fall into this pool, I think it is EXTREMELY beneficial for them to attend college and get an education.

There are precious few jobs in the real world that pay a decent wage with just a high school diploma. In my opinion, having rules in place that keeps kids in school is a good thing.

[shaunsimpson]

so North Carolina, ucla, memphis, kansas and Duke will get richer, it helps them allot, hurts everybody else

I disagree with this. When you know a star player is leaving after one year you will most likely go to that school if you are a star player. You know that the other guy will 80% be gone so there is not much risk.

Lets look at UNC. They have two of the top PF (Zeller will probably play C in college) coming in next year. In 2009 they have another top level PF coming in.

Obviously I am not in the mind of the players in 2009, but if Zeller and Ed Davis were forced to stay 2 years would John Henson go there in 2009? Mabye he would, but as a rule I would guess no.

It may benifit them because they get the top talent for 2 years more often than other schools, but I don't think they are getting richer in talent.

[SLMadiCat]

Let's do a little math, shall we?

There are now 316 schools playing D-1 basketball. If each school gives out its full allotment of scholarships (which we know is not true but for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that it is), that comes to 4,108 athletes receiving scholarships to play basketball.

Now, let's also assume for the sake of this discussion that for any given year, 1/4 of those playing college basketball either graduate or make themselves eligible for the NBA draft. That comes to 1,207 college athletes who are now eligible to be drafted.

There are currently 30 teams in the NBA. Each team gets two draft picks. That means that during any given year, just 60 players worldwide will be drafted. And of those, only first round selections totalling 30 get a guaranteed contract. Even though we know this is not true, for the sake of this post, we will assume that all 60 draftees are college athletes eligible for the draft.

Using the numbers above:


Only 5.8% of all eligible players will get drafted
Only 2.4% of all eligible players will get a guaranteed contract


That means that 97.6% or 1,177 athletes will not have a guaranteed future in the NBA. For those that fall into this pool, I think it is EXTREMELY beneficial for them to attend college and get an education.

There are precious few jobs in the real world that pay a decent wage with just a high school diploma. In my opinion, having rules in place that keeps kids in school is a good thing.

Maybe in theory I'd agree with you but what makes you think that because a kid is supposed to attend college for two years that he is getting a degree? A lot of athletes that attend for four years don't even get a degree. In addition, you are assuming that the degree they get is worth something to begin with. You think it is coincidince that the majority of basketball players from a lot of these schools are majoring in criminal justice? I'd like to see how many of them are currently in that career.

Almost all of these high schoolers are over 18 and could choose to fight in the army, so why can't they decide to go to the NBA if they so choose so?

[qsilvr2531]

Let's do a little math, shall we?

There are now 316 schools playing D-1 basketball. If each school gives out its full allotment of scholarships (which we know is not true but for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that it is), that comes to 4,108 athletes receiving scholarships to play basketball.

Now, let's also assume for the sake of this discussion that for any given year, 1/4 of those playing college basketball either graduate or make themselves eligible for the NBA draft. That comes to 1,207 college athletes who are now eligible to be drafted.

There are currently 30 teams in the NBA. Each team gets two draft picks. That means that during any given year, just 60 players worldwide will be drafted. And of those, only first round selections totalling 30 get a guaranteed contract. Even though we know this is not true, for the sake of this post, we will assume that all 60 draftees are college athletes eligible for the draft.

Using the numbers above:


Only 5.8% of all eligible players will get drafted
Only 2.4% of all eligible players will get a guaranteed contract


That means that 97.6% or 1,177 athletes will not have a guaranteed future in the NBA. For those that fall into this pool, I think it is EXTREMELY beneficial for them to attend college and get an education.

There are precious few jobs in the real world that pay a decent wage with just a high school diploma. In my opinion, having rules in place that keeps kids in school is a good thing.

This math seems to demonstrate that very few players are actually drafted in the NBA, which suggests (at least to me) that if you have the opportunity you probably should take it when it is available, because it is very tough to get a guaranteed contract.

What percent of players that actually declare for the draft at the earliest possible moment (after one year of college last year, or after HS in previous years) fail to get drafted and are also barred from playing in college? What percent do not receive guaranteed contracts?

Really, I'm not sure what you are trying to demonstrate with these numbers. The new rule doesn't do anything to get more players college diplomas, it actually does less. Because the majority of HS players that are capable of playing in Div 1 basketball but choose to declare for the NBA draft get drafted, each one of those frees up another college scholarship. And because the type of player most likely to leave for the NBA early is also most likely to leave after 1 or 2 years, they are actually very unlikely to get the college degree that would afford them a chance at job in "real world."

So we've got more players leaving early and fewer players even attempting to finish their college degree. The only way this rule gives more opportunities for college degrees is if, by forcing them to go to college, they are less likely to be drafted by the NBA. So we've decreased their earning potential in order to force them to attend college.

The funny thing is, we are talking about essentially taking away one of the jobs (and an exceptionally high paying one) that someone with a college degree can get, and we're using the fact that those jobs are hard to come by as the justification.

[MikeInClifton]

On my way back to work after lunch, I was listening to ESPN Radio and unless I misheard it, it appears that NBA commissioner David Stern and NCAA President Miles Brand have agreed to increase the NBA age limit to 20 which would effectively require college players to stay in school for two years.

The NBA has a right through its CBA to set an age limit. The NFL does this and an attempt to challenge it which reached the U.S. Supreme Court failed. So, the NBA has a pretty strong legal precedent in their back pocket if someone decides to challenge this.

Keith - you and I will likely forever disagree on this topic.

BTW - in an interview before the Final Four games on Saturday Stern and Brand together said they would work towards it. The phrase "have agreed to increase the NBA age limit" would not be an accurate reflection of the words I heard them say Saturday.

[MikeInClifton]

Perhaps European football (a.k.a. soccer) has the correct model. Most of the big clubs have youth academies where young talent (think middle school) is brought in to train with the club's youth coaching staff. The players still attend school but their soccer training is guided by the professional club.

One dominant topic in the Stern / Brand interview I saw was a new model to "youth basketball' (aka: AAU/summer/Club basketball) for high school age athletes.

I will agree that youth basketball could use a dose of common sense and regulation. It could even be said the source of the major problem (NBA feels a age limit is required) is youth basketball.

Fix one, you fix them both.

[Bcatfan08]

If a kid doesn't develop while practicing year round for an NBA team (as opposed to for about 6 months in college, and even then they spend far fewer hours per day than an NBA player does), he isn't going to develop his game in college. The benefits of playing in 30 games don't come close to outweighing the benefits of practicing year round, especially when you have access to the better facilities and coaching the NBA offers.

The success rate of HS players drafted by the NBA isn't any worse (I think it is actually better) than the success rate of the college guys that get drafted.

I agree with you that one year is silly. Forcing people to go to class when they have no desire to is also silly.

So you're saying that practicing year-round with an NBA team is more useful than playing in games in college? I highly doubt that and I doubt he'll get as much attention being a bench player on an NBA team as being a starter on a college team. The facilities may be better in the pros, but they are a business and they want to win now. The NBA isn't a developmental league and teams won't hesitate to send a player to the D-league to get better. These players are much better off getting the full attention of their coaches and getting major PT in college than going pro and sitting a few years before getting their shot. I know players like Michael Beasley and Derrick Rose are ready now, but there are too many kids that aren't ready and they go early only to ride the bench for their careers.

[Cats'12]

They aren't out of mind. Half the players in the draft are Europeans at this point. Bargnani went first last year I believe.

Actually, he went two years ago. A certain fellow named Oden went first last year.

Good point on the international players.

[MikeInClifton]

Let's do a little math, shall we?

There are now 316 schools playing D-1 basketball.

Actually, there are 341.

However, you cannot do the numbers for all 341 and treat them equally. If you do, you are running with the assumption that the 13 scholarship athletes at the NJ Institute of Technology (who finished 0-29 this season) have the same chance at pro basketball careers as the players for Memphis and Kansas.

Frankly, I doubt that any of the players for Davidson or Western KY who both made it to the Sweet 16 this year) planned on NBA careers.

I give credit to the intelligence of these players as seniors in high school. They know what their chances are to go to the NBA. And most know that its somewhere between slim and none. Because if they were talented enough for a possible NBA career, the Big Six conferences would have been recruiting them.

You know I'm heavily involved in AAU basketball. Believe me - these kids know their chances for the NBA.

[qsilvr2531]

So you're saying that practicing year-round with an NBA team is more useful than playing in games in college? I highly doubt that and I doubt he'll get as much attention being a bench player on an NBA team as being a starter on a college team. The facilities may be better in the pros, but they are a business and they want to win now. The NBA isn't a developmental league and teams won't hesitate to send a player to the D-league to get better. These players are much better off getting the full attention of their coaches and getting major PT in college than going pro and sitting a few years before getting their shot. I know players like Michael Beasley and Derrick Rose are ready now, but there are too many kids that aren't ready and they go early only to ride the bench for their careers.

So what do you think those players on the bench do during practice, just sit there and watch the starters play? Yes, I think practicing for full day throughout the entire year with NBA level coaches is more beneficial than playing in 30 (or as many as about 40 if you go deep in a couple tournaments) games per year but only practicing a fraction of the time with coaches that are generally not as high caliber.

I don't know how NBA practices are run, but I did work for the Detroit Tigers in their spring training clubhouse for a short period of time and they literally practiced from dawn until roughly 10 pm, especially if there was a game that day.

[shaunsimpson]

This protects the players who leave right from HS or after their first year and are drafted in the 1st round with no guarentee $. Just because it doesn't protect the 1st round players doesn't mean that it doesn't protect the players. With the return benifits many schools offer this is an advantage. After 2 years these kids have a basis and more of an education then they would have had. This 2 year education and the maturity can lead to the players being more responsible and hopefully will add to fewer problems. Hopefully it is like the opposite of playing for Rich Rodriguez which leads to a life of crime and trouble (OK, cheap shot for the Chris Henry and Pacman fans out there).

[MDW79]

Aren't all first round picks given a guaranteed contract? I thought that was the main sticking point in Logan's deal, b/c he was drafted right outside the 1st round. If I remember correctly, his brilliant agent worked him a deal that was all incentive based and he got nothing.

[jeffto]

This protects the players who leave right from HS or after their first year and are drafted in the 1st round with no guarentee $. Just because it doesn't protect the 1st round players doesn't mean that it doesn't protect the players. With the return benifits many schools offer this is an advantage. After 2 years these kids have a basis and more of an education then they would have had. This 2 year education and the maturity can lead to the players being more responsible and hopefully will add to fewer problems. Hopefully it is like the opposite of playing for Rich Rodriguez which leads to a life of crime and trouble (OK, cheap shot for the Chris Henry and Pacman fans out there).I think everyone drafted in the 1st gets a guarantee.

I think Keith's point was that of all the student athletes playing college basketball, this rule will impact a minuscule percentage, so I believe the argument should not focus on those few players, but rather on whether it helps the vast majority of players. I can't see how it has any impact at all on most college players.

However the top 25-30 college programs where most one&dones go will have a distinct advantage of having NBA caliber players for one more year.

Long term, it won't impact recruiting. If North Carolina has their power forward locked in for two years, they just won't recruit the two&done PF. Duke will get him that year and Carolina will be after the two&done the following year.

[Irishbearcat]

It sure helps college basketball, and it will help the NBA too, as the rookies will have a greater following from the fans of the college/conference.

[ralph1950]

The rich get richer. A guy who knows he is stuck in school for 2 years is going to go to a school where he has a legit chance of winning the NCAA Tourney. This rule will be a big benefit to the big boys. They may as well have 2 NCAA Tourneys, the Big tourney for the 73 BCS schools and a second tourney for the 272 non-BCS schools at least they then they will have a chance of winning something.

[Kindog202]

I didn't have time to read all the posts so maybe it's been covered already but when does this age limit go into affect?

[jeffto]

I didn't have time to read all the posts so maybe it's been covered already but when does this age limit go into affect?Ummmh, that would be cheating. :D

I believe I read that the earliest is 2011.

[MikeInClifton]

I can't see how it has any impact at all on most college players.

It doesnt.

Here is the full NBA Draft breakdown over the last five years * -
Draftees from the -
"Big 6" Conferences - 52%
Foreign - 26%
Non-Big 6 colleges - 14%
High School players - 7%
Special - 1%

When you look at just first round draftees, you get
"Big 6" Conferences - 57%
Foreign- 20%
Non-Big 6 colleges - 14%
High School players - 10%

I feel this data shows that players who attend colleges outside the Big 6 need to honestly realize that their chances of a being an NBA player are small and should plan their college careers accordingly. But the NBA and the NBAPA shouldn't create a rule to prevent the foolishness of a freshman from a non-BCS conference school from putting his name in the draft, unless he is scoring 20+ a game and is at a program with an RPI that isn't triple digits. You cant outlaw Stupid.

Obviously this data overlaps the time in which the one year wait rule was instituted, otherwise others would have been moved into the "High School" category. The 2006 and 2007 drafts had no HS players.

Freshmen Greg Oden and Kevin Durant and four other college freshmen all went in the 'lottery' (the first 13 picks) implying that they likely would have been drafted in the first round the previous year if the rules would have allowed. All six attended 'Big 6' schools.

This year, it is predicted that as many as nine college freshmen could be in the first 13 picks of the Draft.

And even after the data shows that the 'Big 6' get the bulk of the draftees, I'm still in favor of letting HS players enter the NBA Draft.

* I included the players of schools that are currently in the Big East in the 'Big Six' category. There were 10 total players that had their careers overlap in both conferences (Maxiell and JWhite, 3 from Marq, 2 from Louisville, two from DePaul and one from So. Fla) I decided that most viewed them as 'high major' programs even though they were in Conf USA.

[MikeInClifton]

One dominant topic in the Stern / Brand interview I saw was a new model to "youth basketball' (aka: AAU/summer/Club basketball) for high school age athletes.

I will agree that youth basketball could use a dose of common sense and regulation. It could even be said the source of the major problem (NBA feels a age limit is required) is youth basketball.

Fix one, you fix them both.

A self-reply but I just found this (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLN4g38nYBSYGYxqb6kW hCjggRb31fj_zcVP0A_YLc0IhyR0VFAABTEJw!/delta/base64xml/L0lDU0lKQ1RPN29na21BISEvb0VvUUFBSVFnakZJQUFRaENFSV FqR0VBLzRKRmlDbzBlaDFpY29uUVZHaGQtc0lRIS83XzBfNVVW LzgyNDMx?WCM_PORTLET=PC_7_0_5UV_WCM&WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/NCAA/NCAA+News/NCAA+News+Online/2008/Assocation-wide/NCAA+partners+with+NBA+on+youth+basketball+initiat ive+-+04-07-08+NCAA+News).

"The NCAA has partnered with the NBA, the National Federation of State High School Associations, USA Basketball, the men’s and women’s coaches associations, shoe companies and the Amateur Athletic Union in an initiative to add new structure to youth basketball."

[bearcatd]

anybody seeing a story on this? I have not seen anything about it. not doubting, just would like to read about it.

[MikeInClifton]

http://www.nba.com/news/ncaa_nba_080407.html

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2008-04-07-ncaa-nba-youth_N.htm

Somewhat of a counterpoint -
http://cms.ibj.com/ASPXPages/6iframes/FrontEndArticlesDetailPage.aspx?ArticleID=12528&NoFrame=1

[Lobot]

The rich get richer. A guy who knows he is stuck in school for 2 years is going to go to a school where he has a legit chance of winning the NCAA Tourney. This rule will be a big benefit to the big boys. They may as well have 2 NCAA Tourneys, the Big tourney for the 73 BCS schools and a second tourney for the 272 non-BCS schools at least they then they will have a chance of winning something.

Maybe the rich don't get richer. If you're a top recruit playing behind other top recruits, say at Duke or UNC, maybe you get buried on the bench for your first two years and don't see the light of day until your Jr. year. This defeats the purpose of going to the big boys. I think these players would be better off going elsewhere to get exposure unless their big goal in life is to win an NCAA Championship instead of going to NBA right away. People have been bringing up Stephen Curry. This guy got tons of exposure at a little tiny school.

I wish I had stats on how hard it is to be a single player in NCAA DIV 1 and pull off a NCAA ring versus the stats of getting to the NBA. Not only does your team have get lucky enough to get through the field of 64 but you have to be lucky enough to be on the team that does it. That leaves about 13 players in all of Div 1's 341 teams that pull that off.