Logan or K-Mart

[Thegreatone]

Who is better in your opinion. Kenyon was the POY according to everybody but Steve finished 3rd in the AP I believe. I understand they were two totally different positions but the question is if you were starting a team who would you take. I am one the believes a dominate big man is key, but a point gaurd is the quarterback. Steve was a better "basketball" player IMO, but Kenyon was the better athlete obviously. This is a fun debate I have with my friends and it ALWAYS carries to the question who was the best bearcat team in the last 20 years sense we are all younger. I always take 2002. Any way who is it, Kenyon or Steve?

[cincycpaw]

If I had to pick 1 and only 1, it'd be K-mart.

He was absolutely dominating his senior year. Steve was unbelievable, but still had his physical limitations that ended up hurting him and the team in the tourney. And Kenyon made a difference on both ends of the floor.

Let's compare:

Heart - Push
Head - Push
Athletic Ability - Kenyon
Skill - Logan
Leadership/Make other better - Push
Offensive Difference maker - Logan (slim)
Defensive Difference Maker - Kenyon (Huge)
Ability to win a game on your own - Push (Logan - Souther Miss ; Kenyon - Depaul)
Energy - Kenyon

Man I miss both these guys, but if I were drafting 1st and had my pick of the 2....Kenyon all the way.

[yhkim79]

I don't think there is even really much of a comparison. K-Mart was undoubtedly the most influential player (as a senior) in the past 20 years for UC basketball. Perhaps it's just me, but when I think Logan (a great player in his own right), I think how he took Dejuan Wagner (Memphis). When I think K-Mart, I think how he took Lance Williams, Quentin Richardson, Steven Hunter, Rashon Burno and Bobby Simmons (I believe 3 of 5 went to the NBA) and just about the rest of DePaul in the last two minutes when UC was trailing by 6+ points.

[cincycpaw]

This is a fun debate I have with my friends and it ALWAYS carries to the question who was the best bearcat team in the last 20 years sense we are all younger. I always take 2002. Any way who is it, Kenyon or Steve?

Oh, and you're crazy, it's the 1999-2000 team. The De-facto national champs. ;)

[MicksTheGuy]

This is an easy debate. Logan was a great player but he was an offensive player. Kenyon could change a game offensively and defensivley. Players were afraid to come into the paint when Kenyon was around.

Logan maybe my all time favorite because he never bad mouthed the program after Huggs was given the boot like Kenyon did. I would like to see Mick do something to bridge the gap between the program and the past player's like Kenyon but some of that has to be Kenyon too.

Anyway, the point is that no doubt in my mind that Kenyon was by far the better player. Not even close.

[MicksTheGuy]

I actually think the better argument would be who was the better player between Dontonio Wingfield, Fortson and Kenyon? Especially if all three stayed to their senior years! Fortson was unstopable in the paint. Wingfield could do things, like hit the three that Fortson and Kenyon could never do. Kenyon was the best player in the nation his senior year. Who would you take first of those three? I would take Wingfield as long as I don't have to worry about his grades :p

[waterhead]

That's like picking between your mom and your dad. Who do you love the most? How about this for an all time starting lineup?

Martin
Fortson
Robertson
Van Exel
Logan

Sorry to the elders I don't know much before the Huggins era. Bonham?

[cpawfan]

Logan maybe my all time favorite because he never bad mouthed the program after Huggs was given the boot like Kenyon did.

Has anybody from the media given Logan a platform to state his opinion?

It is easier to find Waldo than it is to find Logan

[cpawfan]

I actually think the better argument would be who was the better player between Dontonio Wingfield, Fortson and Kenyon? Especially if all three stayed to their senior years! Fortson was unstopable in the paint. Wingfield could do things, like hit the three that Fortson and Kenyon could never do. Kenyon was the best player in the nation his senior year. Who would you take first of those three? I would take Wingfield as long as I don't have to worry about his grades :p

Neither Wingfield nor Fortson could change a game defensively.

[bearcatmark]

I don't think there is even really much of a comparison. K-Mart was undoubtedly the most influential player (as a senior) in the past 20 years for UC basketball. Perhaps it's just me, but when I think Logan (a great player in his own right), I think how he took Dejuan Wagner (Memphis). When I think K-Mart, I think how he took Lance Williams, Quentin Richardson, Steven Hunter, Rashon Burno and Bobby Simmons (I believe 3 of 5 went to the NBA) and just about the rest of DePaul in the last two minutes when UC was trailing by 6+ points.

You also forgot the way he thoroughly dominated Marcus Fizer... unbelievable year... Kenyon was magnificent...

I disagree with the person who said it was Lo's limitations that hurt us in the tourney. Lo played a great game...not his best mind you...but a great game. Stokes was out of his mind that game. It was the limitations of our front line against NBA quality big men. Gadzurik was a very tough matchup... that Knight guy hit some miracle shots... and Kapono was a tough matchup.

That was one of those tourney games i felt both teams deserved to win..both played amazingly well.

[CincySuperFan]

No Doubt, Kenyon wins!!!!!

[richard k.]

That's like picking between your mom and your dad. Who do you love the most? How about this for an all time starting lineup?

Martin
Fortson
Robertson
Van Exel
Logan

Sorry to the elders I don't know much before the Huggins era. Bonham?
I'm not sure who'd I'd take out - would have to give it some real thought and I can't afford to spend what little brain power I have left, but there are a number of "old" timers I'd consider, like Bonham, Hogue, etc., but it's hard to leave out a Basketball HOF'er in Twyman.

[Thegreatone]

I know Kenyon brought a lot, but Steve played the the gaurd position, he could create his own shots while Kenyon relied on other to get him the ball. Steve could hit a shot from ANY where on the court and actually I believe did not miss a shot for 3 months. He was money from the line, that is what i missed last year that one guy at the end of the game that you just knew it was over. The 2002 team great. Immanuel (sp?) was an excellent shut down defender, Donald Little will never get the credit he deserves as a ball player because he has a clown, J-max off the bench, field williams, steve logan who just was awesome that year and that is just a few. I understand that the 1999 team was awesome and the best in the nation but here are some reasons THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEATEN THE 2002 TEAM:

1. Gaurd play wins you games, who would you rather have a senior Steve Logan or a freshman Kenny Satterfield (whom I hate more than any other UC bearcat ever). Barker was the strongest SOB.
2. Donald Little could match the defense of K-Mart, I know it liek blashpemy to say that, but he could have broken the shot block record. He was awesome defensivley, I know he could not have matched K-marts offense in any way, but D he could have with any body!
3. 2002 was more experienced, the 99' team relied on 2 freshman, very good, but still the 2002 team was loaded with experience.
4. Better basketball players, not as athletic, but better ball players. Did not rely on as much on one player.

[jeffto]

I'm not sure who'd I'd take out - would have to give it some real thought and I can't afford to spend what little brain power I have left, but there are a number of "old" timers I'd consider, like Bonham, Hogue, etc., but it's hard to leave out a Basketball HOF'er in Twyman.

There are several you'd have to consider: Pat Cummings, Roger McC, Tom Thacker, Ron Reis (That's for you Tom :) ). Bonham could shoot the lights out. No telling what he could have done with a 3 pt. line.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

There are several you'd have to consider: Pat Cummings, Roger McC, Tom Thacker, Ron Reis (That's for you Tom :) ). Bonham could shoot the lights out. No telling what he could have done with a 3 pt. line.

I remember Ron Reis, Sr. I was disappointed when his son (Ron Reis, Jr) signed with Santa Clara instead of UC in the 1980's.

[Kindog202]

The '99-'00 was by far and away the best team of the Huggins era. You had a front line of Kenyon, Tate, Fletcher, Little and Mickeal and a backcourt of Satt, Johnson and Logan. That team is too big and talented for the '02 team. It was by far the best team in college basketball that year, as I remember one sportswriter commenting that Kenyon's injury gave the other 63 teams in the field a chance to win the national title. In fact if I was to rank Huggins teams, at best I would rank the '02 as the 4th best team behind: (1). '99-'00 2.) '91-'92 3.) '92-'93 and then maybe the '02 team although an argument could be made for the '95-'96 team that went to the Elite Eight as 4 and the '02 team as 5.

Also, Kenyon far and away would I take if I was starting a team over Logan, not even close. Don't get me wrong, Steve had a lot of heart, was a fearless and great/big-time shooter and is one of my all-time favorite Bearcats. However, Kenyon brought much more to the table. Above everything else, Kenyon was a big time intimidator. I think I remember reading an article where they were interviewing Kenyon or maybe Huggs and he said they would walk out on the court, look at the other team and know they had given up just seeing Kenyon and the rest of the 'Cats out on the court warming up. Mt favorite Kenyon moments are when he would grab shots out of midair, you see players do this every once in a while now, but Kenyon made a fairly routine habit out of doing this. I also like when he would leave his man to come help and swat shots as well.

[MicksTheGuy]

TheGreatOne:

Are you on Crack? Let me help you with that #1 team. As I look at my signed basketball these are the names I can read. Logan, Saterfield, DMarr Johnson, Kenyon Martin, Pete Mickel, Jermaine Tate, Donald Little, Fletcher. Man what a team. Only losses to Xavier, Temple and Saint Louis. I can't believe we waxed them 84-41 five nights earlier and then lost to them. Yeah I know that is when Kenyon got hurt but still the should have crushed those guys.

[juckerrules]

That's like picking between your mom and your dad. Who do you love the most? How about this for an all time starting lineup?

Martin
Fortson
Robertson
Van Exel
Logan

Sorry to the elders I don't know much before the Huggins era. Bonham?

You would have to bump someone for Jack Twyman...early 50's
16 + rebounds/game, 20+ pts/game....went on to 6 NBA all-star selections...arguably the best player to ever play at UC other than the big O...although it's hard to compare eras - imagine what a beast Kenyon would have been in 1954!!

[james jr]

I know Kenyon brought a lot, but Steve played the the gaurd position, he could create his own shots while Kenyon relied on other to get him the ball. Steve could hit a shot from ANY where on the court and actually I believe did not miss a shot for 3 months. He was money from the line, that is what i missed last year that one guy at the end of the game that you just knew it was over. The 2002 team great. Immanuel (sp?) was an excellent shut down defender, Donald Little will never get the credit he deserves as a ball player because he has a clown, J-max off the bench, field williams, steve logan who just was awesome that year and that is just a few. I understand that the 1999 team was awesome and the best in the nation but here are some reasons THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEATEN THE 2002 TEAM:

1. Gaurd play wins you games, who would you rather have a senior Steve Logan or a freshman Kenny Satterfield (whom I hate more than any other UC bearcat ever). Barker was the strongest SOB.
2. Donald Little could match the defense of K-Mart, I know it liek blashpemy to say that, but he could have broken the shot block record. He was awesome defensivley, I know he could not have matched K-marts offense in any way, but D he could have with any body!
3. 2002 was more experienced, the 99' team relied on 2 freshman, very good, but still the 2002 team was loaded with experience.
4. Better basketball players, not as athletic, but better ball players. Did not rely on as much on one player.

Although the 2002 team was one of my favorite teams, IMO, the 2000 team would have been too much for them to cope with. Too much overall talent and team quickness. You may be forgetting Tate and Mickeal. Yes, McElroy was a shut down defender but he would have to guard DJ and no 6-4 player in the country could do that! Donald Little was an awesome intimidator but he could not match K-Mart's intensity. I believe the defensive pressure and the relentess offense would have worn the 2002 team down and after a close game for about 30 minutes the 2000 team would win by 12-14 points.

[Thegreatone]

this is all true, but point gaurds win games and Satterfield was such a joke, the biggest problem I had with him was he didnt leave after one year. A senior All-American point gaurd Steve Logan would not have been able to be stopped. Please understand that you can not ride 2 freshman point gaurds to the promise land. Maybe I just didnt like Satterfield for whatever reason but he has to be the most over hyped players I have ever seen, I think I would have taken the Darnell Burtons over him. Although I did like Fletcher, he was a great role players and always hit that corner shot. the 2002 team was a number 1 seed in the tourny.

[SLMadiCat]

I loved Logan, but KMart simply could not be stopped. Logan, with a solid game plan could be slowed, but I don't think anyone could stop Martin. That game against DePaul is still one of the all time greatest individual performances of all time, imo.

[cincycpaw]

You also forgot the way he thoroughly dominated Marcus Fizer... unbelievable year... Kenyon was magnificent...

I disagree with the person who said it was Lo's limitations that hurt us in the tourney. Lo played a great game...not his best mind you...but a great game. Stokes was out of his mind that game. It was the limitations of our front line against NBA quality big men. Gadzurik was a very tough matchup... that Knight guy hit some miracle shots... and Kapono was a tough matchup.

That was one of those tourney games i felt both teams deserved to win..both played amazingly well.

You slightly misunderstood...Logan being guarded by a 6'7" point guard or whatever certainly limited him and Leny picked up the slack but we couldn't get it done (that's debatable considering the hammering Stokes took at buzzer when tied).