2008-2009

[Bearcat Jeff]

It looks unlikely that the 'Cats are going to sign anybody else so let's look at what we have and how it all fits. I look for much more pressing and believe this team will be vastly improved as far as low post scoring is concerned. The PG position worries me from the standpoint of a freshman running the team, but Cashmere played big time AAU and international events so he will be as prepared as anybody coming to D1. I look for a line up of Wright, Vaughn, Bishop, Williams, Toyloy with Davis, Aldridge, Gates, and McClain the first three off the bench. To me the five biggest questions are:

Where do Wilks and Mitchell fit in?
Can Gates play effective low post defense at this level?
Can Mike Williams live up to the hype?
Is McClain going to be healthy enough to improve his footwork?
Will Davis see time at point?

Again, I believe Larry Davis will be vastly improved and think Bishop will average 10 ppg and 5 boards next season. With the new board rules maybe we can have a good discussion now without the thread going south.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I meant to say Davis, Aldridge, Gates and McClain would be the first four off the bench not three.

[Kindog202]

I agree with you on 4 of the starting 5 but don't be surprised to see Gates start at center. I know his preference is to play next to a big man, but he is big and strong enough to guard the center spot now. Also, I want Wright to be our PG from the start but wouldn't be surprised to see Vaughn slide over to the PG and Davis start as the SG. Also, hopefully Biggie is completely healthy and is able to compete for a starting spot.
**
I too think they are done recruiting this year, Mick alluded to it the other night when he was talking to Brantley and Brennamen in the booth at the Red's game.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I agree with you on 4 of the starting 5 but don't be surprised to see Gates start at center. I know his preference is to play next to a big man, but he is big and strong enough to guard the center spot now. Also, I want Wright to be our PG from the start but wouldn't be surprised to see Vaughn slide over to the PG and Davis start as the SG. Also, hopefully Biggie is completely healthy and is able to compete for a starting spot.
**
I too think they are done recruiting this year, Mick alluded to it the other night when he was talking to Brantley and Brennamen in the booth at the Red's game.
I too think there is a possibility of Gates at center. The only reason I went with Toyloy is because I know his desire is to play the 4 spot. Also agree with your Vaughn at point statement and think we will see that some.

[red_n_black_attack]

I disagree completely! McClain will be starting center. Toyloy, Wilks, Gates, and Bishop will compete for the two starting spots at 3 and 4. My prediction is Gates will be first person off the bench. I also think Vaughn and Davis will be starting guards, with Cash seeing significant playing time. Now this is how the first 8-15 games will progress - dare I say it? - barring injuries. After so many games, the starters may change to include Cash and Gates/and/or Wilks. At that point in the season, I see the starters playing at least 28 minutes apiece, with substitutions to change pace or give a rest, but the subs will be in only a minute or two at a time, then the starters back in. Mick has a philosophy of playing his best five to give them a shot at winning (which I expect will be every game). 22-23 wins is not improbable, remember folks newcomers will take some time to groom and most of the rest of the BEast will also be relying on some newcomers.

2008/09 WILL BE A RETURN TO GLORY!

GO CATS!!

[solomon33]

RE: Where do Wilks and Mitchell fit in? Wilks, fits in towards the end of the bench, 7+ min/game, Mitchell-scoring option off the bench if he is out of the dog house
Can Gates play effective low post defense at this level? Very early against the cupcakes-yes, middle of the year he is gonna struggle on d, by mid conference he will be banging w/ the big boys
Can Mike Williams live up to the hype? If he gets 2 years to do so-yes, one year-no he will have a little rust to shake off but will have a solid if unspectacular season- 10-12 pts and 7-9 reb/game
Is McClain going to be healthy enough to improve his footwork? Yes, biggie's footwork will hipnotize you next season!
Will Davis see time at point? Yes but on a limited basis, 4-6 min/game or in times of vaughn/wright foul trouble.
Hope that helps Kinney, you know I try to unanswer all your concerns as soon as possible...

[CincyBeerCo]

I disagree completely! McClain will be starting center. Toyloy, Wilks, Gates, and Bishop will compete for the two starting spots at 3 and 4. My prediction is Gates will be first person off the bench. I also think Vaughn and Davis will be starting guards, with Cash seeing significant playing time. Now this is how the first 8-15 games will progress - dare I say it? - barring injuries. After so many games, the starters may change to include Cash and Gates/and/or Wilks. At that point in the season, I see the starters playing at least 28 minutes apiece, with substitutions to change pace or give a rest, but the subs will be in only a minute or two at a time, then the starters back in. Mick has a philosophy of playing his best five to give them a shot at winning (which I expect will be every game). 22-23 wins is not improbable, remember folks newcomers will take some time to groom and most of the rest of the BEast will also be relying on some newcomers.

2008/09 WILL BE A RETURN TO GLORY!

GO CATS!!

Don't forget Williams @ the 4 spot. I do agrre w/ you about McClain starting and Gates being 1st off of the bench, or playing 3 for bigger lineups.

[red_n_black_attack]

Don't forget Williams @ the 4 spot. I do agrre w/ you about McClain starting and Gates being 1st off of the bench, or playing 3 for bigger lineups.

DOH!!! My post should've read four guys competing for ONE spot (I had completely forgotten Mike Williams - thanks).

One thing is for sure, if you want to see the court, you had better hustle in practice. There are plenty of bodies to throw into the rotation (with Gates and Toyloy getting some time at the 5, maybe even Bishop). Competition in practice will make a better team.

[JerseySean]

The more I see all of these names bantered about, the more excited I get for the upcoming season. Even if we don't make the tourney, I think the year after looks exceptionally exciting. But I still have my heart set on a tourney bid this year!

Williams, Gates, and Biggie all on the court at the same time? I'm getting goosebumps!

[CincyBeerCo]

The more I see all of these names bantered about, the more excited I get for the upcoming season. Even if we don't make the tourney, I think the year after looks exceptionally exciting. But I still have my heart set on a tourney bid this year!

Williams, Gates, and Biggie all on the court at the same time? I'm getting goosebumps!

Yup...If they all perform up to talent/expectations, we will have a pretty imposing front court....BRING BACK "INTIMIDATE, DOMINATE, CELEBRATE!" :) Best slogan ever!

[Doss]

The only hype our players get is herein.

Vaugn was all Big East but that is 11 players not a traditional 5.
Williams hype ended on the UT bench for 2 years.
McClain(I can't stand the foot pain) has not shown anythng.
Gates may be great but after years of watching we have all seen heralded frosh be busts. Does any on remember Sandy Pomerantz who was hyped to be a white Big O?
Cashmere may turn out to be silky smooth or unravel.

I used to see coaching get more out of lesser players, can mick just get them to play to there talent level????????

[UC/XU fan]

Doss brings such a positive outlook. Unfortunately, some of his points are true. If McClain is in the starting lineup, this team is headed nowhere. For the life of me, I can't understand what people on this board saw out of McClain last year to think he could possibly start in the Big East. I just hope he can contribute his senior year. And Wilkes is in the same boat. I don't care how "athletic" he's supposed to be. Does he even weight 100lbs? The rest of the team has enough talent to make some noise this year. As with most teams, PG play will make or break this team. Hopefully Mick can get enough wins before conference play starts and we'll be a NCAA bubble team with 8 or 9 conference wins.

[SLMadiCat]

Vaughn could possibly have been all Big East with only five players named. He never saw Williams play at Texas (and forgets who he had to win playing time over).

Wilks (there is no 'e') does weigh over 100 lbs and with additional weight training he should bulk up pretty well. It's not just athleticism, he has skill as well and you will eventually get to see it.

I saw a lot of things Biggie did well last year. Unfortunately he was like most freshman centers - raw. Thabeet as a freshman was very similar to Biggie and after his sophomore year he was a possible first round candidate.

[Kindog202]

RE: Where do Wilks and Mitchell fit in? Wilks, fits in towards the end of the bench, 7+ min/game, Mitchell-scoring option off the bench if he is out of the dog house
Can Gates play effective low post defense at this level? Very early against the cupcakes-yes, middle of the year he is gonna struggle on d, by mid conference he will be banging w/ the big boys
Can Mike Williams live up to the hype? If he gets 2 years to do so-yes, one year-no he will have a little rust to shake off but will have a solid if unspectacular season- 10-12 pts and 7-9 reb/game
Is McClain going to be healthy enough to improve his footwork? Yes, biggie's footwork will hipnotize you next season!
Will Davis see time at point? Yes but on a limited basis, 4-6 min/game or in times of vaughn/wright foul trouble.
Hope that helps Kinney, you know I try to unanswer all your concerns as soon as possible...

Sol, thanks for the quick response although I was not the one posting these questions, I was merely giving my opinion on the present thread and responding in kind to Bearcat Jeff. Glad to see you back on the board though...

[anbuc88]

The only hype our players get is herein.

Vaugn was all Big East but that is 11 players not a traditional 5.
Williams hype ended on the UT bench for 2 years.
McClain(I can't stand the foot pain) has not shown anythng.
Gates may be great but after years of watching we have all seen heralded frosh be busts. Does any on remember Sandy Pomerantz who was hyped to be a white Big O?
Cashmere may turn out to be silky smooth or unravel.

I used to see coaching get more out of lesser players, can mick just get them to play to there talent level????????

I missed not having BIG TIME mentioned in your post. For having watched basketball for as long as you pruport, your knowledge of the game is clearly lacking. You judge MC's coaching and results based on what he did with leftover JUCO's and a raw freshman class and conclude that he is thus not BIG TIME. If it was so easy to succeed with the parameters that he was given, why don't other coaches follow suit. There is no reason to recruit during the year, just wait for the end of March, offer those JUCO's that have not committed to high profile programs and you should be guaranteed a trip to the NCAA tournament. Why wait for him to have enough talent to compete in arguably the toughest conference before coming to a conclusion on his coaching ability?

[Matt1982]

Vaughn, Davis, Aldridge, Williams, Gates. Mcclain only if he improved physically, otherwise, he will still be a fill in center

[Scheids21]

I missed not having BIG TIME mentioned in your post. For having watched basketball for as long as you pruport, your knowledge of the game is clearly lacking. You judge MC's coaching and results based on what he did with leftover JUCO's and a raw freshman class and conclude that he is thus not BIG TIME. If it was so easy to succeed with the parameters that he was given, why don't other coaches follow suit. There is no reason to recruit during the year, just wait for the end of March, offer those JUCO's that have not committed to high profile programs and you should be guaranteed a trip to the NCAA tournament. Why wait for him to have enough talent to compete in arguably the toughest conference before coming to a conclusion on his coaching ability? This would make too much sense, but then again I'm not a BIG TIME fan such as Doss.

Hahaha now that is funny...well put

[catscratchfever]

The only hype our players get is herein.

Vaugn was all Big East but that is 11 players not a traditional 5.
Williams hype ended on the UT bench for 2 years.
McClain(I can't stand the foot pain) has not shown anythng.
Gates may be great but after years of watching we have all seen heralded frosh be busts. Does any on remember Sandy Pomerantz who was hyped to be a white Big O?
Cashmere may turn out to be silky smooth or unravel.

I used to see coaching get more out of lesser players, can mick just get them to play to there talent level????????

with 16 teams in a conference an 11 player all conference team equates to a 5 man in smaller leagues.

McClain was a 17 year old 7 footer (roughly) give the guy a chance to grow into his body...ever heard of weight training?

Gates...way to be negative..what makes you think he will be a bust?
same with Cashmere...

your posts are tiring...UC could land the #1 player in the country and you would have something negative to say about it.

like an earlier poster stated, in one breath you say that the players have no talent...in the next breath you say that the head coach cannot get them to play to their talent level?? doesn't make sense man...

[levydl]

Stop taking the bait. You don't have to set the record straight every time one of these people posts some negative and derogatory - everyone but 2-3 people agrees with you anyway. It's not that difficult to act as if he's not posting.

Cash, Vaughn, Bishop, Williams, and Gates start. Aldridge could take Bishop's starting spot once he's eligible and gets his feet wet.

[catscratchfever]

Stop taking the bait. You don't have to set the record straight every time one of these people posts some negative and derogatory - everyone but 2-3 people agrees with you anyway. It's not that difficult to act as if he's not posting.

Cash, Vaughn, Bishop, Williams, and Gates start. Aldridge could take Bishop's starting spot once he's eligible and gets his feet wet.

you are right...good call

it's just tough to stand by while someone spews their venom about the school and team that i love!

[jeffto]

The only hype our players get is herein.

Vaugn was all Big East but that is 11 players not a traditional 5.
Williams hype ended on the UT bench for 2 years.
McClain(I can't stand the foot pain) has not shown anythng.
Gates may be great but after years of watching we have all seen heralded frosh be busts. Does any on remember Sandy Pomerantz who was hyped to be a white Big O?
Cashmere may turn out to be silky smooth or unravel.

I used to see coaching get more out of lesser players, can mick just get them to play to there talent level????????I remember Sandy Pomerantz. He left UC on his own and concentrated on academics at Washington Univ. in St. Louis. Became a successful attorney and set all the scoring records in basketball at Wash U.

If a Debbie Downer is going to cite someone she should pick an appropriate example. Like Ron Krick.

[Doss]

that Sandy was a bust at UC, not what he did at a low mid major school like Washington U.


I remember Sandy Pomerantz. He left UC on his own and concentrated on academics at Washington Univ. in St. Louis. Became a successful attorney and set all the scoring records in basketball at Wash U.

If a Debbie Downer is going to cite someone she should pick an appropriate example. Like Ron Krick.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Let's try to keep a thread on course for once. There is a log jam at SF but it is a good thing when we debate the line up and we are left wondering where players like Wilks and Mitchell fit in. Traditionally players show a vast improvement between their frosh and soph seasons and I think this season will be no different across the board. Apparently whatever issues Mitchell had were worked out and let's not forget that Wilks was a top 50 recruit in his class who left high school early to attend U.C. Athletically he is gifted but physically he was underdeveloped. Could be tough in the press with his length.

[Bearcat_DF]

It seems the important thing is to try to figure out the primary rotations.

Unfortunately, given the youth of this team, I don't think we will have many players who can play multiple positions. For example, by his senior year, Leonard Stokes could slide between 1, 2, 3 and the team was experienced enough to make those adjustments on-court between possessions.

I think Vaughn is the only player who has demonstrated that skill level.

Given his learning curve last year, I can imagine Bishop being able to play both the 2 and the 3.

Aldridge may be able to play the 3 and 4.

I'm curious about Mike Williams. He has a lot of experience and a couple of years now in Cronin's system. So, we might see him able to switch between the 4 and 5. That would be a huge help because then we could get the two players who I anticipate being our best post players on the court at the same time.

I think someone should be getting a K-Mart compilation dvd together for Yancy Gates so that he can start developing his range of skills so that he gets out of the mind set of 4 vs 5 and sees that the more skills he has, the more valuable he is going to be when he goes to the next level. Still, I think it is too much to ask of a freshman. He will be doing well to figure the offense, defensive switches and set plays from the 4 position.

Of course, if we play a lot of motion offense, that could minimize the need for players knowing a specific position. It just makes running set plays difficult.

So, having said that - here are the options I think Cronin will have

PG - Vaughn, Wright, Dixon
SG - Davis, Vaughn, Bishop, Mitchell
SF - Bishop, Aldridge, Mitchell, Wilks
PF - Williams, Gates, Belton
C - Tolvoy, McCain, Williams

As I look at this - it looks like we are in for a bumpy ride. We are relying on players who have not demonstrated skills at the D-1 level at the two key positions - 1 and 5.

While Vaughn is a great off guard, if we have to rely upon him at the point, we are in trouble. Wright may be able to get to a place to start. However, when I think of freshmen point guards who have done well at UC - Kenny Satt and Devan Downey, they had the luxury of joining very veteran teams. Wright won't have the luxury.

Go Cats!
df

[Bearcat Jeff]

You make some valid points. I do believe Vaughn will play some point I just don't think he will start there. Cashmere Wright will be given the opportunity right away and get alot of minutes especially in ooc play. if U.C. signs Roburt Sallie that could really stir things up as well. My guess is it won't happen but who knows? Mitchell could be a wildcard if his attitude is right. I think this team will be better than some think. Mike Williams was the acknowledged team leader when he went down with the injury. It is hard to lead from the bench. His work ethic and leadership will be huge for this team. There was not see a true leader on the floor last season. There is depth and plenty of talent. If they come together as a team it will be very interesting.

[Kindog202]

Who is Robert Sallie? Never heard of him before?

[Bearcat_NTS]

JUCO guard ready for visits

City College of San Francisco point guard Roburt Sallie has confirmed to CatsPause.com . . . .

saw this on ncaabbs, but looks like some good schools are after him

Do not post premium content here.

[Inchickinkick]

Since the season will not be starting for another 3 months......
Here are my projections......

=======================
pg; Vaughn-Wright-
-------------------------------
sg; Mitchell Davis-Ward-Miller
-------------------------------
sf; Bishop-Wilks
--------------------------------
pf; Williams-Aldridge-Belton
-------------------------------
C; McClain-Toylor-Gates
-------------------------------

[anbuc88]

Since the season will not be starting for another 3 months......
Here are my projections......

=======================
pg; Vaughn-Wright-
-------------------------------
sg; Mitchell Davis-Ward-Miller
-------------------------------
sf; Bishop-Wilks
--------------------------------
pf; Williams-Aldridge-Belton
-------------------------------
C; McClain-Toylor-Gates
-------------------------------
Uh, yeah. Ward just comitted to Texas and is not on the roster. Gates as a 5 star recruit is 3rd on your depth chart at center, not even playing PF. Respectfully disagree.

[Kindog202]

BCL is now reporting that Sallie is going to take a visit here. It seems to me that Mick is not completely satisfied with what he has at the point guard position. First he gets a verbal from Ward (who by the way, will head to Austin now to become a Longhorn), after Ward falls through, he seemed to target Maze who Pearl (rat) came in and stole away. Now he is looking at adding another PG. I don't think he feels completely confident that Wright will come in and play a ton of minutes right away and does not want to use Vaughn there for a ton of time for obvious reasons.

[Kindog202]

Maybe he meant Dixon as he does not have him listed anywhere. No way Gates is third on the depth chart list at center. He either starts at center or backs up Williams at power forward. Anyway you look at it, I believe Williams and Gates will see a lot of the court together at the same time.

[jeffto]

I think there will be unlimited opportunity for everyone to practice their way into playing time. Vaughn is the only one with guaranteed minutes. The practices should be intense!

[SLMadiCat]

BCL is now reporting that Sallie is going to take a visit here. It seems to me that Mick is not completely satisfied with what he has at the point guard position. First he gets a verbal from Ward (who by the way, will head to Austin now to become a Longhorn), after Ward falls through, he seemed to target Maze who Pearl (rat) came in and stole away. Now he is looking at adding another PG. I don't think he feels completely confident that Wright will come in and play a ton of minutes right away and does not want to use Vaughn there for a ton of time for obvious reasons.

I don't think it ever matters who is on the roster, Mick will always be recruiting someone just in case. If he feels he can get another good PG to come in, I would guess he would do it regardless of how good he thinks Cashmere is.

[Bearcat_DF]

I don't think it ever matters who is on the roster, Mick will always be recruiting someone just in case. If he feels he can get another good PG to come in, I would guess he would do it regardless of how good he thinks Cashmere is.

There is a huge downside to that strategy. If he picks up another player Alridge or someone else doesn't get a scholarship. It is late for a player to go get a team. Do that a couple of times and I suspect the word will get out to not sign with UC until the last moment because you don't want to be left hanging without a team come June or July . . .

Go Cats!
df

[Inchickinkick]

Uh, yeah. Ward just comitted to Texas and is not on the roster. Gates as a 5 star recruit is 3rd on your depth chart at center, not even playing PF. Respectfully disagree.

Dion Dixon my mistake thanks for pointing that out.....

[Inchickinkick]

Since the season will not be starting for another 3 months......
Here are my projections......

=======================
pg; Vaughn-Wright-
-------------------------------
sg; Mitchell Davis-Dixon-Miller
-------------------------------
sf; Bishop-Aldridge-Wilks
--------------------------------
pf; Williams-Gates-Belton
-------------------------------
C; McClain-Toylor

[Nerf]

BCL is now reporting that Sallie is going to take a visit here. It seems to me that Mick is not completely satisfied with what he has at the point guard position. First he gets a verbal from Ward (who by the way, will head to Austin now to become a Longhorn), after Ward falls through, he seemed to target Maze who Pearl (rat) came in and stole away. Now he is looking at adding another PG. I don't think he feels completely confident that Wright will come in and play a ton of minutes right away and does not want to use Vaughn there for a ton of time for obvious reasons.

Probably concerned that the last Bearcat PG from Georgia named Wright (Marko) broke his foot as a freshman, forcing Damon Flint into that role.

Mick mentioned not long ago on the radio that he thought that really hurt Damon's progress.

[Matt1982]

its really a pointless question if you think about it, i am sure through the first 10 games we will see 5 different starting lineups at the minimum until mick sees the chemistry he's looking for.

[Scheids21]

Cronin would love to have a true point guard that Cash can learn from. Honestly, I'd rather throw him in there from day 1 than put Vaughn there. As we've seen in the past, our offense just can't function with Vaughn at point.

[Inchickinkick]

Cronin would love to have a true point guard that Cash can learn from. Honestly, I'd rather throw him in there from day 1 than put Vaughn there. As we've seen in the past, our offense just can't function with Vaughn at point.

I feel we can play Deonta Vaughn at the point guard next year, cause last year we really didn't have anybody else besides Deonta that could consistently score. i belive mick has filled that void with Aldridge and Mike Williams