Ref's racially biased?

[Catmandu]

I think they call this the Duke effect! LOL

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2857469

[jon b]

yea, I read it. I agree with those that say that it is making conclusions on flawed data. I wish I could have reviewed the paper, I would have trashed it.

But it will sell papers!

[Thegreatone]

As Tim Duncan would say about this article "It's retarded"

[shaunsimpson]

I think they get their cause and effect backwards here.

[Bearcat_DF]

I played HS sports for a Dayton Public School, we always new we were going to give up additional points, because the officiating would not be quite fair.

A year ago, I went to a state playoff game between Mason and Forest Park. Forest Park completely owned Mason in the first half. After the half, Mason played better defense and kept themselves in the game, but they were still down a couple of score in the 4th quarter. Then the flags started falling - Mason ends up tying to go to overtime.

I went to see a friends' son play , so I didn't have a vested interest in the game. The sad thing is that I look at my friend at the beginning of the 4th quarter and predicted we would all of a sudden see a barrage of penalties.

I can still remember one play, Forest Park broke a long run and 15 yards behind the play there is a holding.

Oh yeah, Forest Park was predominantly African American, Mason was predominantly white, and the officiating crew was white.


There is a reason for the term - homered. I know this is on ancedotal data, but I do not believe it is a stretch to actually find a difference.


I seem to remember an interesting study on a different aspect of officiating. The color of a team's uniform was correlated to the number of penalties called against a team. This study was of the NFL. Teams that had black in their uniform had more penalties. The whole thing may have been skewed by the Oakland Raiders, they were the most penalized.

Go Cats!
DF

[ME80]

II can still remember one play, Forest Park broke a long run and 15 yards behind the play there is a holding.

DF

Which brings up an interesting point. Is a penalty not a penalty if it doesn't affect the play? Being a ref in any sport is hard enough to begin with without adding another level of subjectivity. The losing team always feels that the calls went against them.

And by the way, being at most of Mason's games if I remember correctly, it wasn't a holding call but rather a clip when an offensive lineman basically pushed a defender down from behind. Yes it was at least 15-20 yards behind the runner but it was still a foul. If I am thinking of the correct play everyone in the stands commented how the coach was going to drill the kid for making a very stupid decision with the runner obviously already clear of the pack.

[qsilvr2531]

yea, I read it. I agree with those that say that it is making conclusions on flawed data. I wish I could have reviewed the paper, I would have trashed it.

But it will sell papers!

I don't really see a problem with the conclusions in the paper. What do you feel is wrong about the conclusions? Is it the fact that they don't use individual calls by referees or is it something else?

[Bearcat_DF]

Which brings up an interesting point. Is a penalty not a penalty if it doesn't affect the play? Being a ref in any sport is hard enough to begin with without adding another level of subjectivity. The losing team always feels that the calls went against them.

And by the way, being at most of Mason's games if I remember correctly, it wasn't a holding call but rather a clip when an offensive lineman basically pushed a defender down from behind. Yes it was at least 15-20 yards behind the runner but it was still a foul. If I am thinking of the correct play everyone in the stands commented how the coach was going to drill the kid for making a very stupid decision with the runner obviously already clear of the pack.


ME 80 - A couple of points.

1) - In college basketball, by and large, especially post play - a foul is not a foul unless it affects play - specifically, all the banging in the post (all fouls by the book - remember basketball is by rule - a non-contact sport) are not a foul unless one player gains an unfair advantage. But that is not my point and I'm not agruing that the ref should not have called a clip or a hold if it did in fact occur. Matter of fact, if it was a clip at that point on the play, it would have been a real cheap shot and the player should have been ejected.

2) I went to watch Mason and Forest Park won the game, so I do not think my perspective was tainted by rooting for Forest Park (I wasn't) or by the fact they lost - they didn't.

3) I would like to see the tape - because yes, if a player made a clip or a hold 15 yards behind the play, it would be really stupid. However, most of the fans would have been watching the runner and how the play finishes. I suspect it is very unlikely that any of those fans actually saw the penalty (including myself).

4) I suspect we could get the tape, and if we did, I would be willing to wager that we would find - there were more penalties called in the fourth quarter and that those penalties were predominantly against Forest Park.

And my main point - it was predictable. I looked at my buddy and mentioned, watch and see if the yellow hankies don't start coming out - and they did.

Go Cats!
DF

[ME80]

DF...as I said "if I am thinking about the right play". I guess my question is what are you actually getting at? How often have you seen a basketball game where one team has 10 fouls the other team two and before you blink an eye it is 10 to 8. I think refs in general have a way of evening things out. It may not be right but I think their "human nature" wants to have others view them as being fair.

[Bearcat_DF]

DF...as I said "if I am thinking about the right play". I guess my question is what are you actually getting at? How often have you seen a basketball game where one team has 10 fouls the other team two and before you blink an eye it is 10 to 8. I think refs in general have a way of evening things out. It may not be right but I think their "human nature" wants to have others view them as being fair.

My point is that every predominantly black school in the nation will tell you - if you go against a white team and their is a white officiating crew - the officiating won't be fair.

[ME80]

My point is that every predominantly black school in the nation will tell you - if you go against a white team and their is a white officiating crew - the officiating won't be fair.

Wow, that is something that should be discussed off this board!