Reason(s) why we shouldn't be worried..

[Cincinnatisportsfanatic]

So we lost our first game.. Not a big deal. It was our first road test not to mention our first real test against a good program. I didn't get to watch the game but listening to it i got the feel our defense played pretty well but we just couldn't hit back to back shots and get into a rhythm. I think we should bounce back today and get back on track with a win.

[Mick's Da Man]

Alot of panic on multiple UC message boards about last night's game.

And alot of people are going to look stupid in a few months.

It's one game. They shot poorly and did some dumb things, but the defense was solid. Things have come too easily offensively up 'til now. It's a good lesson. I'd rather they have a bad game now they can learn from, than later when it means more.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Alot of panic on multiple UC message boards about last night's game.

And alot of people are going to look stupid in a few months.

It's one game. They shot poorly and did some dumb things, but the defense was solid. Things have come too easily offensively up 'til now. It's a good lesson. I'd rather they have a bad game now they can learn from, than later when it means more.

UC is much > talented than UNLV. Tonight will be W by double digits.

This particular UNLV team is weaker than most teams coached by Lon Kruger.

[ucjoerat140]

I didn't get to see or listen to the game last night but I did look at the box score. I have a few questions.... It seems to me that they just had an off night of shooting? They took a lot of 3s and didn't really make many. Also I was wondering if foul trouble played a role? I think Yancy and Williams were in trouble throughout the game. It also seems that maybe Florida state just played harder than we did. Is deonta going to be fine at point?

[Cincinnatisportsfanatic]

One thing we do need to improve on is turnovers. We aren't that good of a team where we can turn the ball over 18 times a game and win.

[Billy Don]

I didn't get to see or listen to the game last night but I did look at the box score. I have a few questions.... It seems to me that they just had an off night of shooting? They took a lot of 3s and didn't really make many. Also I was wondering if foul trouble played a role? I think Yancy and Williams were in trouble throughout the game. It also seems that maybe Florida state just played harder than we did. Is deonta going to be fine at point?

I think Deonta is going to struggle at point at least until he gets some help. Guys not knowing where to be makes it tough on a point guard.

[Cincinnatisportsfanatic]

Mike Williams came out looking like all world but then picked up two quick fouls and sat most of the first half. And too many 3's hoisted up that fell short of the rim. Some poor shooting for sure.

[Joe_Pong]

Come on people! This team is going to struggle all year against quality competition. Like I said in a thread I started back on November 18 (entitled An Objective Look - which I tried to state GENTLY that we are not very good so as not to piss off the hypersensitive people) our starting lineup is full of a bunch of players who would be bench players on a team that has any hopes to compete at a higher level. We have 2 starting caliber players right now maximum, and one of them is being wasted by playing out of position. Like I said, enough of this crap about us being 10 deep. Yes, we have 10 bodies we can throw out there to make us 10 players deep, but 8 of the 10 should be coming off the bench. Rashad Bishop is not starting material at SF, period. We have no starting caliber 2 guard (since Vaughn is now playing PG). We have a committe of guys we throw out there at the shooting guard position in the hopes that one of them might get hot. And we have no PG. Williams is a decent player at PF - although nothing special. McClain, Gates, and Toyloy are all still bench quality players at this point at the other front court spot.

The other point I made, in response to some craziness about all our scoring options - we have one double digit scorer! Vaughn is the only guy we can count on to produce double digits. That is not the sign of a good team. We have no idea from night to night if and from who we will get scoring.

Another point I made was that you can get by without a PG when facing scrubs, but we will be exposed when playing against any sort of quality competition.

I also commented how this is an abyssmal FT shooting team and some people argued with me. But the stats don't lie. Our team FT% is in the same range as Shaq's.

So some of the angry responses to the game just amuse me. You should not be so surprised that we lost the game pretty handily.

[TmacGoCats]

[QUOTE=Joe_Pong;41862]You should not be so surprised that we lost the game pretty handily.[/QUOTE

That is probably the worst game we will play all year, now that doesn't mean we wont lose by more then 11 the rest of the way, but think about, our shooting was awful and we only lost by 11. Even though we played horrible the entire game, we were never out of contention until the very end. So we didn't lose "handily". I was expecting a win and i'm disappointed in the loss, but don't give up on the team just because of one game.

And for those of you who went on any message board and called the team garbage, don't come back here and jump on the bandwagon when we start winning again.

[Joe_Pong]

[QUOTE=Joe_Pong;41862]You should not be so surprised that we lost the game pretty handily.[/QUOTE

That is probably the worst game we will play all year, now that doesn't mean we wont lose by more then 11 the rest of the way, but think about, our shooting was awful and we only lost by 11. Even though we played horrible the entire game, we were never out of contention until the very end. So we didn't lose "handily". I was expecting a win and i'm disappointed in the loss, but don't give up on the team just because of one game.

And for those of you who went on any message board and called the team garbage, don't come back here and jump on the bandwagon when we start winning again.

How can I be basing this on one game when these are statements I made almost two weeks ago? The Florida State game just confirmed what I thought about this team before. There was nothing new or different about the game we lost. All the same issues that arose in the FSU game existed when we were playing the cupcakes. People just chose to ignore them because we were able to win the games.

Now, if I was one of these people who were talking about how loaded we are, how we had so many great offensive weapons, and how we were 2 deep at every position and then changed my mind after ths loss, yo might have a point. But I never bought into that crap. If you dispute any of my observations about this team, then feel free to argue or point out where I am wrong.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Alot of the same folks that were talking about the potential of this team are putting them down today and are in panic mode. This is a young team and last night brought them back down to earth. They will be fine "if" Vaughn can play with poise. He doesn't have to be spectacular just solid and I hope he learns that quickly. Davis continues to play well and will get better as the season progresses. Penetration would have opened the inside, but instead they tried to force passes in where no lane existed. Again, this is correctable thru teaching. Defense played well outside of rebounding in the first 10 minutes of the second half. This team will be fine.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Come on people! This team is going to struggle all year against quality competition. Like I said in a thread I started back on November 18 (entitled An Objective Look - which I tried to state GENTLY that we are not very good so as not to piss off the hypersensitive people) our starting lineup is full of a bunch of players who would be bench players on a team that has any hopes to compete at a higher level. We have 2 starting caliber players right now maximum, and one of them is being wasted by playing out of position. Like I said, enough of this crap about us being 10 deep. Yes, we have 10 bodies we can throw out there to make us 10 players deep, but 8 of the 10 should be coming off the bench. Rashad Bishop is not starting material at SF, period. We have no starting caliber 2 guard (since Vaughn is now playing PG). We have a committe of guys we throw out there at the shooting guard position in the hopes that one of them might get hot. And we have no PG. Williams is a decent player at PF - although nothing special. McClain, Gates, and Toyloy are all still bench quality players at this point at the other front court spot.

The other point I made, in response to some craziness about all our scoring options - we have one double digit scorer! Vaughn is the only guy we can count on to produce double digits. That is not the sign of a good team. We have no idea from night to night if and from who we will get scoring.

Another point I made was that you can get by without a PG when facing scrubs, but we will be exposed when playing against any sort of quality competition.

I also commented how this is an abyssmal FT shooting team and some people argued with me. But the stats don't lie. Our team FT% is in the same range as Shaq's.

So some of the angry responses to the game just amuse me. You should not be so surprised that we lost the game pretty handily.Joe I think, and thought originally, that you had some valid points. I too said that if we do not find another option at point guard that we would struggle. Again, if Vaughn can just be solid I think we'll be a middle of the pack team. I disagree with the shooting guard statement. I think Davis will develop into a solid sg. A young team shoots too many jump shots. When they learn to penetrate from the perimeter the offense will improve.

[Cincinnatisportsfanatic]

Just like how everyone panicked when our football team lost the 2nd game of the year to Oklahoma.. Look at us now!!

[TmacGoCats]

[QUOTE=TmacGoCats;41866]

How can I be basing this on one game when these are statements I made almost two weeks ago? The Florida State game just confirmed what I thought about this team before. There was nothing new or different about the game we lost. All the same issues that arose in the FSU game existed when we were playing the cupcakes. People just chose to ignore them because we were able to win the games.

Now, if I was one of these people who were talking about how loaded we are, how we had so many great offensive weapons, and how we were 2 deep at every position and then changed my mind after ths loss, yo might have a point. But I never bought into that crap. If you dispute any of my observations about this team, then feel free to argue or point out where I am wrong.

You made valid points about the objectivity of this years UC team (2 weeks ago), and i agree with you..........i just don't like the fans that come on these boards and are so down about a particular game and give up on the whole season. On a side note i don’t think you have been one of those fans, you were just taking a non-bias observation.

But i still think this team can win 18-20 games and give a good push for the NCAA and fall back on the NIT. We played so bad last night and we were still in the game! That was a totally different story last year. We had to play awesome every night to win or even make it a close game.

I still don’t see how we won 8 conference games last year (I think Cronin prepared them well), we have way better players this year, and if we don’t win at least 8 again this year then we underachieved.

[SLMadiCat]

I think it rests on Vaughn. If he steps it up at the point, they'll be alright. M. Williams is solid and I think he is a starter on most Big East teams. Gates is still a stud and he'll come around as he becomes more comfortable. Hopefully Wilks starts to take Bishops position because I don't really think Bishop adds much. It'll take some time, but they'll be good.

[UCBRCT05]

I am really not sure why the people that bash this team are even on this board posting. If you are so unhappy with the team then move on. We had a bad game, move on.

I am excited for this team no matter what this is a better team then we have had in years. It is still a young team but the talent is there. Mitchell has shown some flashes so far this year of what he is capable of. We had a poor shooting nite, we will get better. Remember last year we won 8 games in the big east, this team is ALOT better!

Support UC

[Mick's Da Man]

The last time I looked at the calendar it was still November. Hmmm.

Let's see.....we play games in December, January, February, and most likely March.

Alot of basketball to be played and learned from.

Alot of talent on this basketball team.

[Cincinnatisportsfanatic]

I just hope some of these people that make some of these poor comments on here do not ever have kids. Cause you will be disappointed when they don't live up to your hype!! This teams needs to be coached up and taught just like every young team out there.. Now if next year or at the end of this year they are still making those same mistakes then yes we have a valid point to be nervous. I'm not into prediction's from some people on this board unless you can truely prove to me to be a fortune teller if not then leave that to the weirdo's and freaks! This team has talent and has shown it before. They had one bad game which was their first road game as a team. Now with that said if we lose tonight then yea you have a valid reason to whine and complain about how this team isn't living up to your expectations..

[ralph1950]

Who is worried? The 1961 Championship team started the season 5-3, the third loss was a 17 point blowout at St. Louis University and most everyone wanted Jucker fired at that time. They won the next 22.

[Thegreatone]

Who is worried? The 1961 Championship team started the season 5-3, the third loss was a 17 point blowout at St. Louis University and most everyone wanted Jucker fired at that time. They won the next 22.

That is why we are a tag team the ralph covers old school and I got new school

[Cincinnatisportsfanatic]

Good point Ralph. I for one am not going to be satisfied with a 15 win season this year but i'm not expecting huge things this year. We simply jacked up way to many wild shots last night which cost us the game. If we can make some shots and play the same D we should be fine tonight. Let's GO CATS!!!

[jeffto]

UC is much > talented than UNLV. Tonight will be W by double digits.

This particular UNLV team is weaker than most teams coached by Lon Kruger.Since you're so adept at correcting others, I would be remiss in not pointing out that ">" means greater than (or more than). Please try to use your symbols correctly. Also, when using a W to indicate "win" an "a" is required.

You obviously did not attend the same UC as I.

[Corporateballa]

UC is much > talented than UNLV. Tonight will be W by double digits.

This particular UNLV team is weaker than most teams coached by Lon Kruger.


Have you seen them play? Have you forgotten that this is a home game for UNLV???

[Corporateballa]

UC is much > talented than UNLV. Tonight will be W by double digits.

This particular UNLV team is weaker than most teams coached by Lon Kruger.

Your comments are off base:

UNLV Runnin’ Rebels

Overall Rank: #28

Conference Rank: #1 MWC

2007-08: 27-8, 12-4, 2nd

2007-08 postseason: NCAA

The Mountain West Conference had a good 2007-2008 campaign and should again in 2008-2009. And once again UNLV will be towards the top. The Runnin’ Rebels return three starters from the team that fell in the second round of the NCAA Tournament to the eventual national champions. Coach Lon Kruger has done a great job building the program up over the last few years. If that trend continues, UNLV will be tough to stop.

[1984grad]

vaughn cannot play the point. if we don't have somebody that can run the point then we will have a long year.

[CincyBearcat95]

Joe, I think you make some good points, but I definitely disagree with your statement that the "starting lineup is full of a bunch of players who would be bench players on a team that has any hopes to compete at a higher level."

The last 2 years Mick's brought in top 20 recruiting classes. You give credit to Vaughn and Williams which is correct. The fact is that those two top 20 classes are only freshmen and sophomores. Further, Vaughn as you've stated should not be playing the point. Cash was that guy for this year even as a freshman, which shows how badly we needed a point guard. Cash is out and that as much as being a young team is what is hurting us, not talent.

If Mick can develop these guys into players that can utilize that talent, we will be a team that can make a deep run into March. That might take a year or two, but I saw the same thing with the Jayhawks. When they started off as a team and were young, they did not resemble anything like the team that won the National Championship.

While I'm bummed to see our first loss, I in no way am ready to throw in the towel on this team. As was said before, there's a lot of ball left to play and this team will improve over the season - they all do.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Since you're so adept at correcting others, I would be remiss in not pointing out that ">" means greater than (or more than). Please try to use your symbols correctly. Also, when using a W to indicate "win" an "a" is required.

You obviously did not attend the same UC as I.

Internet lingo. Read up on it.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Your comments are off base:

UNLV Runnin’ Rebels

Overall Rank: #28

Conference Rank: #1 MWC

2007-08: 27-8, 12-4, 2nd

2007-08 postseason: NCAA

The Mountain West Conference had a good 2007-2008 campaign and should again in 2008-2009. And once again UNLV will be towards the top. The Runnin’ Rebels return three starters from the team that fell in the second round of the NCAA Tournament to the eventual national champions. Coach Lon Kruger has done a great job building the program up over the last few years. If that trend continues, UNLV will be tough to stop.

I'm pretty sure UC played the 2008-09 UNLV team yesterday. It would be quite unusual for UNLV to bring back last year's team for just 1 game.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Joe, I think you make some good points, but I definitely disagree with your statement that the "starting lineup is full of a bunch of players who would be bench players on a team that has any hopes to compete at a higher level."

The last 2 years Mick's brought in top 20 recruiting classes. You give credit to Vaughn and Williams which is correct. The fact is that those two top 20 classes are only freshmen and sophomores. Further, Vaughn as you've stated should not be playing the point. Cash was that guy for this year even as a freshman, which shows how badly we needed a point guard. Cash is out and that as much as being a young team is what is hurting us, not talent.

If Mick can develop these guys into players that can utilize that talent, we will be a team that can make a deep run into March. That might take a year or two, but I saw the same thing with the Jayhawks. When they started off as a team and were young, they did not resemble anything like the team that won the National Championship.

While I'm bummed to see our first loss, I in no way am ready to throw in the towel on this team. As was said before, there's a lot of ball left to play and this team will improve over the season - they all do.

Cronin is a superb recruiter. Perhaps the best in the Big East. UC has gobs of talent, 2 deep at each spot.

There are no more excuses. 20 W. Just W again. The talent is there.

[YouGuessedItFrankStallone]

There are no more excuses. 20 W. Just W again. The talent is there.

Do you ever get tired of being a broken record?

Why is it so important to you that everyone knows you're predicting 20 wins this year that you include the prediction in 75% of your posts?

[bearcatbret]

The Ralph - this team will not win their next 22 games. However, they should get to 20 wins and in finish at 8 in the BEast. They should be dancing. However, I would take the NIT at this point in the rebuilding era. Just do not go to the ABC tourney and lose in the first round.

[TmacGoCats]

I think UNLV only lost 2 players from last years roster. One averaged like 3 points the other averaged like 5. correct me if i'm wrong

[Thegreatone]

I am too lazy to look it up but if it is true I would like to hear what 58' response is to that.

[TmacGoCats]

2007-08 UNLV Men's Basketball Roster

1 Wink Adams G 6-0 200 Jr.
15 Corey Bailey F 6-5 215 Sr. ***6 points per game
12 Troy Cage F 6-5 190 Fr.
45 Joe Darger F 6-7 225 Jr.
22 Beas Hamga C 7-0 225 Fr.
10 Scott Hoffman G 6-3 180 So.
24 René Rougeau G 6-6 205 Jr.
0 Mareceo Rutledge G 6-3 225 Jr.
34 Matt Shaw F 6-8 240 So.
31 Curtis Terry G/F 6-5 205 Sr. ***10 points per game
5 Kendall Wallace G 6-4 190 Fr.
33 Tre'Von Willis G 6-4 200 So.

It sounds funny to say this, but UNLV losing those 2 guys is equivalent to us losing Williamson- 11.6ppg and Adam H- 6.4ppg

[Bearcats_Rule]

The UNLV team we just beat was getting votes to be in the top 25. 26th in one poll and like 29th in the other... It was a good road win for the young cats... UNLV is a good team this year, and previous couple years...

[CincyBearcat95]

Cronin is a superb recruiter. Perhaps the best in the Big East. UC has gobs of talent, 2 deep at each spot.

There are no more excuses. 20 W. Just W again. The talent is there.

Talent alone does not win the games. He has to bring them along and improve their games. To win 20 games, they must play like a team, not just as 10 individuals and that takes time.

This was always the knock on Lavin at UCLA. He'd bring in amazing talent and they wouldn't improve in the 4 years they played.

Take the Charlie Weis situation for example. He has a ton of 4 and 5 star freshman and sophomores, but they only won 6 games this year. When they are juniors and seniors they could easily be at 10 wins.

This team will be very good. Mick just needs time to develop them. Any expectations that they will be this amazing team simply because they had great talent in high school is not realistic.

[CincyBearcat95]

That said, I hope they win 20 games this year, but the Big East is unbelievable this year so to say 20 wins no excuses is simply ignorant because you are not looking at who they play at all.

[Mick's Da Man]

What's really comical is all this alluding to how many returning starters are competition are playing, and how we should be able to beat all of them. Yet UNLV, Florida State and others return far more starters than we do.

Our only returning starters this year? Vaughn - who was playing SG last year and is now the PG (Warren was last year's PG) and the sophomore Bishop at SF.

Adam H., John Williamson and Jamual Warren were our other starters last year.

You'd think people would remember that, including the fact it's ONLY NOVEMBER.

Give them some damn time. Sheesh. I like what I see so far, but quit expecting miracles.