4 Bearcats In Rivals (Final) Top 150

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?SID=910&Year=2007&ra_key=1611

Henry #52 - McClain #54 - Mitchell #106 - Bishop #129 on the list.

[red_n_black_attack]

Is Corey Stokes (#28 on the list) any relation to Leonard?

[FleXcursion]

He has a younger brother but I believe his name is Loren.

[CincySuperFan]

That's the best class we've had in a few years. We've had a couple of good players, but not a whole class this good.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

That's the best class we've had in a few years. We've had a couple of good players, but not a whole class this good.

http://www.bearcatnews.com/recruiting/list/inactive

Here's a look back at UC classes going back to 2000.

Top 10 rated classes were 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2004.

[waterhead]

Well I sure hope we get back to that kind of consistency being in the top 10. I hope the 08' class is the first of many for Mick. It will be hard to be consistent until the scholarships even out though. I expect two big years follwed by two lean years (in quanitity not quality) for at least one more 4 year recruting cycle.

[juckerrules]

http://www.bearcatnews.com/recruiting/list/inactive

Here's a look back at UC classes going back to 2000.

Top 10 rated classes were 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2004.

Just proves one of two things:

1)The recruiting class ratings don't mean that much
2) UC was incredibly inept - 3 top ten recruiting classes in a row should equate to at least one final four

[General Woundwort]

Just proves one of two things:

1)The recruiting class ratings don't mean that much
2) UC was incredibly inept - 3 top ten recruiting classes in a row should equate to at least one final four

Well, the big problem with the classes of that era was the rather high number of "busts":

Vince Banks (never got on the court), Mike Pilgrim (ditto), Roy Bright, Soulymane, Whaley, Antwan Jones.

The 2005 class was an even worse example of this: Tyree Evans and Abdul Herrera never got on the floor (Evans never even made it to campus), Tilford and Coleman disappeared without ever making an impact.

Retaining and developing players is incredibly important; part of that is not signing too many guys who are going to struggle with eligibility or other (*cough*Whaley*cough*) issues.

I fully expect that there will be disappointments in any recruiting class, but they are going to need to avoid the high rates of attrition this team suffered during the 2002-2006 period.

[waterhead]

Just proves one of two things:

1)The recruiting class ratings don't mean that much
2) UC was incredibly inept - 3 top ten recruiting classes in a row should equate to at least one final four

I wouldn't narrow it down to those two things but I also won't say you're entirely incorrect. If you take a look back at some of those classes some of those kids never played, or played very little and left or were problematic. Guys like Banks, Pilgrim, Bright, Downey come to mind.

I don't think it was necessarily the rankings or even the coaching. I just think we were recruiting a lot of the wrong type of kids. Grade issues, trouble makers, and bad attitudes. Of course Downey transferred.

[Oldtimer_UC_fan]

I wouldn't narrow it down to those two things but I also won't say you're entirely incorrect. If you take a look back at some of those classes some of those kids never played, or played very little and left or were problematic. Guys like Banks, Pilgrim, Bright, Downey come to mind.

I don't think it was necessarily the rankings or even the coaching. I just think we were recruiting a lot of the wrong type of kids. Grade issues, trouble makers, and bad attitudes. Of course Downey transferred.

Quite frankly, I don't think our recruiting has been the same since a guy named Cronin left for Louisville. I'm sure BH having a heart attack didn't help, and of course his tumultous last couple of years. Downey was a good recruit, but really, when you look at the rest, there was nothing special there.

[Flanntastic]

Bearcat teams are good because they out hussle, out work, not because of recruiting rankings, Bob made them out work everybody. I hope Mick can do the same. I know Mick will be a better recruiter than Bob, but will he make them mean?

[IKnowMoreThanYou]

Corey Stokes is no relation to Leonard Stokes. A previous poster in this thread was correct, that Leonard does have a younger brother, Loren, who has been a 1st team all conference player the last few years out at Hofstra University in Long Island, NY. I believe he's a senior this year and is very similar to his brother, maybe an inch or two shorter, with an excellent mid range game and hot and cold from the 3 point line.

The incoming Cincy recruiting class has the potential to be one of the best in recent memory and if the players coming in approach what they are capable of they will be the foundation for the resurgence of UC hoops. Most of the guys coming in should be four year players who Mick can develop and should get some good experience so that when the seniors on this year's team depart the 2008 team won't rely solely on the incoming freshman.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Just proves one of two things:

1)The recruiting class ratings don't mean that much
2) UC was incredibly inept - 3 top ten recruiting classes in a row should equate to at least one final four

UC won 3 of 4 games (420 W, 140 L) it played from 1990 through 2006. Pretty good "inept" performance over 17 years.

UC won 11 of 30 games in 2007. Perhaps "inept" applies to that, given that UC lost AT LEAST 5 winnable games last season.

[jkwuc89]

I tend to agree with point #1....recruiting class rankings are overhyped and are certainly no guarantee of future performance.

[jeffto]

UC won 3 of 4 games (420 W, 140 L) it played from 1990 through 2006. Pretty good "inept" performance over 17 years.


Greatness is bestowed on those who win the most important games. In this case those games are Sweet 16 and beyond.

Tell the Atlanta Braves how important those regular season wins are.

Inept may be the wrong word. Perhaps "underachievers" fits better.

[Oldtimer_UC_fan]

Greatness is bestowed on those who win the most important games. In this case those games are Sweet 16 and beyond.

Tell the Atlanta Braves how important those regular season wins are.

Inept may be the wrong word. Perhaps "underachievers" fits better.

Are you in St. Louis?

[waterhead]

I think it's a shame that labels like "underachievers" and "inept" need to be bestowed on our kids or our teams. Some of our kids and teams were overachievers in my mind. Some of these teams faced incredible odds and played quite well in my opinion. Every college program should be so fortunate to have such and underachieving inept program and players. I live in Atlanta and most of the fans here are pretty happy that they have a playoff team virtually every year whether they win the World Series or not.

Sorry, I just don't like lumping all teams together and labeling them. Some may have underachieved and sure overall it's dissapointing that we haven't seen the final 4 more. I for one am glad to have been along for the ride and I enjoyed every minute of it.

[Doc Brock]

UC won 3 of 4 games (420 W, 140 L) it played from 1990 through 2006. Pretty good "inept" performance over 17 years.

UC won 11 of 30 games in 2007. Perhaps "inept" applies to that, given that UC lost AT LEAST 5 winnable games last season.

I think the term was applied to the top recruiting classes after 2000, so applying wins from 1990-2000 wouldn't be appropriate for this argument.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Greatness is bestowed on those who win the most important games. In this case those games are Sweet 16 and beyond.

Tell the Atlanta Braves how important those regular season wins are.

Inept may be the wrong word. Perhaps "underachievers" fits better.

UC was 2-5 in NCAA games from 1964 through 1989.

UC was 20-14 in NCAA games from 1992 through 2005.

I'd take the latter results over the former ANY DAY.

Mick Cronin has yet to win a single NCAA game.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I think the term was applied to the top recruiting classes after 2000, so applying wins from 1990-2000 wouldn't be appropriate for this argument.

Even so, UC in the Decade of the 2000's ranks highly among D1 schools.

Despite considerable slippage in 2007 with the 11-19 record, UC has one of the best records in D1.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I tend to agree with point #1....recruiting class rankings are overhyped and are certainly no guarantee of future performance.

The 1992 Bearcats were composed largely of leftovers and transfers.

The 1992 Bearcats made FF.

The 2002 Bearcats were similarly constructed.

The 2002 Bearcats had 31 W and are the only #1 seed in UC basketball history.

[JR71]

We did have some bad luck there with our recruits not all making it on the court. You know what though the same thing could happen next year. Mick has recruited several kids that have academic problems. It is very possible that McClain,Bishop,Henry,and Davis might not make it here next year. I guess we could include Bost because I feel like he will be a bearcat but we all know about his grade issues. These kids were talented enough though for Mick to take a chance just as Huggins did.

As for the players used as examples. We all know that Bright was suppose to be the model student just as he was in high school. Herrera and Banks were both screwed over by the NCAA one for an english class and the other for missing by 1 point on the SAT after he had already passed it earlier. I could go on but like I said anytime you bring a recruit in you are taking a chance.

[jeffto]

Let's hope Davis doesn't have problems - he sat out all year. He should have had plenty of time to study!

[jon b]

As for the players used as examples. We all know that Bright was suppose to be the model student just as he was in high school. Herrera and Banks were both screwed over by the NCAA one for an english class and the other for missing by 1 point on the SAT after he had already passed it earlier. I could go on but like I said anytime you bring a recruit in you are taking a chance.

Based on what I have heard about the Herrara situation, I am not sure he was so much screwed as the one of the first ones caught. He was using his ESL (English as a second language) class to count as both his English and foriegn language requirements. I guess the NCAA had missed a few of these in previous years, but he did not slip through. Basically a year earlier and he probably would have played.

Correct me if this is wrong, but otherwise I agree with the NCAA ruling.

[JR71]

They accepted his english 2 and english 3 classes but refused to accept his english 1 class. Now to me that doesn't make sense especially since they have been doing the same thing for years with foreign players attending high schools here. His high school still doesn't understand what the problem was. As far as they were concerned they had done everything right and he should have been able to play.

[CroninCrazy]

Kind of sounds like Adam H., where he *thought* he did everything correctly, but in the end he can't play.

[jon b]

They accepted his english 2 and english 3 classes but refused to accept his english 1 class. Now to me that doesn't make sense especially since they have been doing the same thing for years with foreign players attending high schools here. His high school still doesn't understand what the problem was. As far as they were concerned they had done everything right and he should have been able to play.

Did they accept his ESL2 and 3 as both English and foriegn language credit, but not 1? or did they simply not accept 1 for credit period? I am not really interested in what they did "for years" if they were correcting mistakes. It always sucks when the change hurts or affects you, but I have no issue with not counting English for both credits in general.

OTOH, if the NCAA does tend to have an eltist attitude, even while changing rules. Sometimes they appears as if they are the 7-year old who keeps changing the rules of the game to suit their current situation more so that to be fair. I am trying to figure out where I think this one lies.

Thanks for your earlier answer!

[JR71]

I don't think it had anything to do with trying to get the classes to meet both the english and foriegn language requirement. They just for some reason accepted his ESL2 & ESL3 classes but not the ESL1 class. They didn't exactly give an explanation for this which is why the coaches and the media would say he was pretty much screwed by the NCAA. I've tried looking for some more details but I haven't had any luck.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I don't think it had anything to do with trying to get the classes to meet both the english and foriegn language requirement. They just for some reason accepted his ESL2 & ESL3 classes but not the ESL1 class. They didn't exactly give an explanation for this which is why the coaches and the media would say he was pretty much screwed by the NCAA. I've tried looking for some more details but I haven't had any luck.

I knew 2 of the coaches at the time. They were flabbergasted that Herrera wasn'r ruled eligible as a frosh.