Was last year's team more talented?

[Corporateballa]

I was wondering "how did last year's team win 8 BE games"?...I think that last year's starting 5 might be better than this year's:

It would be hard to argue that Deonta Vaughn was better last year.
Jamal Warren would start on the current team.
John Williamson was a far more productive player than Mike Williams.
Marcus Sikes had some huge games playing out of position (8 treys at
Georgetown)
Marvin Gentry had a couple of big games when he was healthy.
If Adam H. could make a lay-up, they would have won at least two more BE
games.

Never imagined that I would ever consider this thought. I'm interested in what others think.

[BeastUC]

Maybe not more talented,but they we're seniors and also played with far more heart and drive.It's amazing what an emotional leader can do for a team who's down.

[Joe_Pong]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I am going to repeat what I have been saying since before the season started. This team does not have more than two players who are Big East caliber starters (at least for a team with hopes of being competitive), and one of them is playing out of position. And the other one has the talent but is not there yet.

Can we finally agree that those people who thought this team was loaded did not know what they were talking about?

[Bearcat POE]

I was wondering "how did last year's team win 8 BE games"?...I think that last year's starting 5 might be better than this year's:

It would be hard to argue that Deonta Vaughn was better last year.
Jamal Warren would start on the current team.
John Williamson was a far more productive player than Mike Williams.
Marcus Sikes had some huge games playing out of position (8 treys at
Georgetown)
Marvin Gentry had a couple of big games when he was healthy.
If Adam H. could make a lay-up, they would have won at least two more BE
games.

Never imagined that I would ever consider this thought. I'm interested in what others think.

No way, they played TOGETHER, and with HEART,they counted on eachother

[Matt1982]

THIS IS MY PROBLEM

1. in games we get WAXED... he STILL doesn't mix it up with Wilks and Mcclain. HOW FREAKING BAD CAN THEY BE.

2. There is ZERO strategy change with this coaching staff regardless if we're up by 10 or down by 30

3. Mick NEVER accepts blame. It's always, this guy didn't do this well enough, or that guy didn't do what he was supposed to do, or the other team just played better than us tonight. It's starting to sound like Marvin Freakin' Lewis out there when Mick talks.

Last year we had a team that was fun to root for even despite it's deficiencies. You knew they were going to give you effort, hustle, intensity, heart, enthusiasm. All this current team gives us is the look of a deer in headlights. They appear to have no clue what the heck is going on or what to do. Once the wheels start to come off there is no turn around in this team. That falls SQUARELY on Mick for not lighting a fire under these kids' rear ends.

I never thought I'd say it, but right now, give me Bobby Knight to run the show. We need some discipline, some toughness, that is exactly what Mr. Knight would do. Sorry if I just opened up a can of worms by mentioning Bobby Knight, but the bottom line is, the experiment is over, it failed. Mick is not the guy to get us back to prominence. We need a proclaimed legend, a leader, someone who can step in and make their mark RIGHT NOW.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I was wondering "how did last year's team win 8 BE games"?...I think that last year's starting 5 might be better than this year's:

It would be hard to argue that Deonta Vaughn was better last year.
Jamal Warren would start on the current team.
John Williamson was a far more productive player than Mike Williams.
Marcus Sikes had some huge games playing out of position (8 treys at
Georgetown)
Marvin Gentry had a couple of big games when he was healthy.
If Adam H. could make a lay-up, they would have won at least two more BE
games.

Never imagined that I would ever consider this thought. I'm interested in what others think.

No, the 2009 Cats are > talented. The 2008 Cats played with > heart.

[Forsure21]

Last years team was more talented IMO. Like I said, this team will struggle to win 5 confrence games. WHo on the team is talented? Outside of Gates and Vaughn im not sure if anyone is talented. Like I said, I don't care about recruit rankings etc. I care about production and you expect TALENT to produce, but nobody on this team is good enough. Like I have been saying, and I don't want to be right about this, but this team will not win more then 12 confrence games in the next 2 years IMO. Cronin won't be able to bring in production players until he proves he can coach.

[Forsure21]

Im concerned about peoples expectations of being talented are? Nobody on this team is very good? WHy can nobody but me and a few others see this problem.

What makes somebody talented? THeir HIGH SCHOOL rankings or production? Or maybe the way the square up to the basket? Im just not so sure what talent people are seeing?

[JohnFrancis]

Gee, an UNRANKED Boston College team can muster up enough energy and go into Chapel Hill and win.....

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Gee, an UNRANKED Boston College team can muster up enough energy and go into Chapel Hill and win.....

With players (generally) unranked in HS ratings...

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Last years team was more talented IMO. Like I said, this team will struggle to win 5 confrence games. WHo on the team is talented? Outside of Gates and Vaughn im not sure if anyone is talented. Like I said, I don't care about recruit rankings etc. I care about production and you expect TALENT to produce, but nobody on this team is good enough. Like I have been saying, and I don't want to be right about this, but this team will not win more then 12 confrence games in the next 2 years IMO. Cronin won't be able to bring in production players until he proves he can coach.

Each of the healthy scholarship players is talented. Every single 1 of them.

[letharion]

Maybe not more talented,but they we're seniors and also played with far more heart and drive.It's amazing what an emotional leader can do for a team who's down.

Agreed. I expected for Deonta and Williams to fill the role but it's not happened.

[Mick's Da Man]

I'm mostly concerned with the lack of a recognizable offensive philosophy. I'm also concerned that these beatings are affecting player confidence, which I think has been low most of the season.

[coach]

i was criticized for my opinion after the x loss that this was the worst two loss team in the country, but unfortunately i feel even more certain at 4. i think the thing that concerns me the most, other than the correct two big east player reference, is how little the players seem to be improving. this, coupled with the lack of any offensive structure and/or options leads back to coaching more than anything. these guys don't seem to be listening or following anything they are hitting them with. Horrible basketball period.

Also, as frustrating as Adam was, he was much more of a factor than Williams is. At least he could rebound. This could be a very long season.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

i was criticized for my opinion after the x loss that this was the worst two loss team in the country, but unfortunately i feel even more certain at 4. i think the thing that concerns me the most, other than the correct two big east player reference, is how little the players seem to be improving. this, coupled with the lack of any offensive structure and/or options leads back to coaching more than anything. these guys don't seem to be listening or following anything they are hitting them with. Horrible basketball period.

Also, as frustrating as Adam was, he was much more of a factor than Williams is. At least he could rebound. This could be a very long season.

It better not be another season like the previous 2. UC hasn't had 3 straight losing seasons since the middle of the Tony Yates era. I don't wanna go back.

[Thegreatone]

No, the 2009 Cats are > talented. The 2008 Cats played with > heart.

I completely agree.

John Williamson is the symbol of that.

[bearcat1518]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I am going to repeat what I have been saying since before the season started. This team does not have more than two players who are Big East caliber starters (at least for a team with hopes of being competitive), and one of them is playing out of position. And the other one has the talent but is not there yet.

Can we finally agree that those people who thought this team was loaded did not know what they were talking about?

Well, the Cats do have:
A stud who's been starting in the Big East since he was a true frosh and has has shown he can be a star in the league (Vaughn)

3 players in the top 130 in the 07 class (McClain, Bishop and Mitchell) and most think that Larry Davis would have been if he had not been hurt his senior year.

A former McDonald's All-American in Williams

A top 25 player in 08 class with Yancy Gates

And for comparison:
Notre Dame only has 2 Top 130 players since 2005 class (Harangody #104 in 06, Tory Jackson #118 in 06)
Pitt has only 3 Top 130 palyers since 2005 class (Blair 07, Brown 06, Robinson #110 in 08)
Marquette only has 1 Top 130 player since 2005 class (Haywood in 06)
West Virginia has only 2 Top 130 players since 2004 class (Ebanks #11 in 08 and Jones #73 in 08)

I'm just saying...it's not like all teams in the Big East are loaded with Top 25 recruits (although a few are). I think we need to do a better job developing the talent we do have.

[bearcat1518]

And yes, I realize that prospect rankings don't mean everything...but I'm simply using the Top 130 as a measuring stick for comparison.

[NorrisHopper30]

This team is much more talented than last years team. There is no debate, look at the records.

[LongTimer]

Well, the Cats do have:
A stud who's been starting in the Big East since he was a true frosh and has has shown he can be a star in the league (Vaughn)

3 players in the top 130 in the 07 class (McClain, Bishop and Mitchell) and most think that Larry Davis would have been if he had not been hurt his senior year.

A former McDonald's All-American in Williams

A top 25 player in 08 class with Yancy Gates

And for comparison:
Notre Dame only has 2 Top 130 players since 2005 class (Harangody #104 in 06, Tory Jackson #118 in 06)
Pitt has only 3 Top 130 palyers since 2005 class (Blair 07, Brown 06, Robinson #110 in 08)
Marquette only has 1 Top 130 player since 2005 class (Haywood in 06)
West Virginia has only 2 Top 130 players since 2004 class (Ebanks #11 in 08 and Jones #73 in 08)

I'm just saying...it's not like all teams in the Big East are loaded with Top 25 recruits (although a few are). I think we need to do a better job developing the talent we do have.

These are good points. This team has lots of talent. But, it is underachieving and playing like a team with no talent. That is coaching! Whatever Mick is doing isn't working right now. Even most of our wins were unimpressive, but the UNLV win looks very good now. The problem is that we were playing better back then. We are getting worse now. What has changed.....well, Biggie is out of the picture now. Wilks played a whopping 2 minutes. Six players played more than Dixon. You can really question how Mick is handling these three guys. We are out-rebounded by a small team known for it's guard play. Gates gets 3 rebounds. The defense is non-existant. Marquette shoots 60% from the 3....54% overall. I can go on and on. It was just a poorly prepared team that did not execute anything! Micks playing time breakdown just makes no sense. It's just BAD!!! Period!!!

[bubbachunk]

No but they played better. No having a true PG is killing us there is no doubt about it. Remember when Warren was out with a broken hand last year and how bad we looked?

[bearcat1518]

These are good points. This team has lots of talent. But, it is underachieving and playing like a team with no talent. That is coaching! Whatever Mick is doing isn't working right now. Even most of our wins were unimpressive, but the UNLV win looks very good now. The problem is that we were playing better back then. We are getting worse now. What has changed.....well, Biggie is out of the picture now. Wilks played a whopping 2 minutes. Six players played more than Dixon. You can really question how Mick is handling these three guys. We are out-rebounded by a small team known for it's guard play. Gates gets 3 rebounds. The defense is non-existant. Marquette shoots 60% from the 3....54% overall. I can go on and on. It was just a poorly prepared team that did not execute anything! Micks playing time breakdown just makes no sense. It's just BAD!!! Period!!!

Agree on all your points. Especially on the Dixon part. When he's in the game...Things usually start to happen for the 'Cats.