The Big East Really is Ridiculous

[bearcatmark]

I am in the process of watching the WVU v UCONN game (pretty awesome game so far btw, though the refs have had some tight whistles so far). Anyways i went online and started looking up Lunardi's bracketology...i mean i know the Big East is good...but the top is utterly ridiculous. Conceivably WVU, UConn, Pitt, Georgetown and Syracuse are all positioned to make a run at a 1 seed (looking at computer ratings to this point). Louisville, Marquette, Notre Dame, and Villanova are all positioned for 1-4 seeds if they play well enough. Just unreal. It's not just that there are 9 possible tourney teams...it is how amazing the top 8 look.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I am in the process of watching the WVU v UCONN game (pretty awesome game so far btw, though the refs have had some tight whistles so far). Anyways i went online and started looking up Lunardi's bracketology...i mean i know the Big East is good...but the top is utterly ridiculous. Conceivably WVU, UConn, Pitt, Georgetown and Syracuse are all positioned to make a run at a 1 seed (looking at computer ratings to this point). Louisville, Marquette, Notre Dame, and Villanova are all positioned for 1-4 seeds if they play well enough. Just unreal. It's not just that there are 9 possible tourney teams...it is how amazing the top 8 look.

UConn vs WVU is a heckuva game, back-n-forth.

[Forsure21]

Let's go WVU. Man this game is great. Both teams playing hard, physical basketball.

[jeffto]

Is 30% FG shooting the new gold standard? UNC, Kansas or UCLA would eat either team for lunch with that kind of shooting

[Forsure21]

It is just so refreshing to see teams and players play hard and bang around. WVU just missed shots for the most part. Some were contested and blocked, but a lot were just bricked. Again, shot 30 percent and with hard play, WVU still had a chance to win the game.

[jeffto]

It is just so refreshing to see teams and players play hard and bang around. WVU just missed shots for the most part. Some were contested and blocked, but a lot were just bricked. Again, shot 30 percent and with hard play, WVU still had a chance to win the game.They didn't play very hard going for rebounds (50-27). Very little contribution from the freshmen against tough competition. It's a good thing Conn shot so poorly or WVU would have been blown out.

"Banging around" doesn't always equal quality basketball, especially when you give the other team almost 2 1/2 times more free throws.

[BearcatAlum1]

Does anyone else think that Thabeet gets hacked all the time and the refs don't call fouls? I've seem a more than one game in which Thabeet doesn't get calls when there is a blatant foul. I think the refs tend to do this because of his size. The idea that, "you're bigger, so that doesn't hurt" theory.

Alum1

[ralph1950]

What a really poor coaching job by the guy from WVU. WVU down by 2 points with under 3 minutes to go gets out on a 4 on 1 fast break. The West Virginia player with the ball, rather than pass off for the tieing 2 point basket, pulls up and takes a 3, misses, and the UConn guy gets the rebound. What kind of coaching is that? WVU chokes and does not score the last 3 minutes of the game and UConn wins.

[BearcatAlum1]

What a really poor coaching job by the guy from WVU. WVU down by 2 points with under 3 minutes to go gets out on a 4 on 1 fast break. The West Virginia player with the ball, rather than pass off for the tieing 2 point basket, pulls up and takes a 3, misses, and the UConn guy gets the rebound. What kind of coaching is that? WVU chokes and does not score the last 3 minutes of the game and UConn wins.

Didn't think you would go there Ralph? That is pretty antagonistic...

Alum1

[Forsure21]

They didn't play very hard going for rebounds (50-27). Very little contribution from the freshmen against tough competition. It's a good thing Conn shot so poorly or WVU would have been blown out.

"Banging around" doesn't always equal quality basketball, especially when you give the other team almost 2 1/2 times more free throws.

I don't like pretty basketball. I like hard nosed, earn everything kind of basketball. You saw that in that game. UCONN is a very good team. THe fact is WVU played without their starting PG, shot 30 percent from the field, and still were in position to win the game.

[jlr1523]

This BigEast talk is starting the kill me. I agree with everything thats said, it's just painful to see UC not being a part of the hype. The conference is good as it could possibly be but UC is still stuck in the bottom 5. Im starting to wonder if the program will ever return to where it was and compete in the Big East.

[LongTimer]

This BigEast talk is starting the kill me. I agree with everything thats said, it's just painful to see UC not being a part of the hype. The conference is good as it could possibly be but UC is still stuck in the bottom 5. Im starting to wonder if the program will ever return to where it was and compete in the Big East.

That's a legitimate concern. It is a big mountain to climb right now. Hopefully, we have the right man for the job!

[Bearcat Cafe]

Is 30% FG shooting the new gold standard? UNC, Kansas or UCLA would eat either team for lunch with that kind of shooting
Terrible shooting plus pathetic rebounding. Great game by WVU. Yuck.

[bearcatmark]

I wrote this on another board, but my impressions of the game were as follows.

If you are a WVU fan you could not be happy with how much you got outrebounded by last night. The first timeout of the game was literally after UCONN's second possession because WVU's freshman point guard tried to leak out for a fast break instead of boxing out his man. That turned into an offensive rebound on the long rebound and put back.

I thought a lot of the turnovers UCONN had were the direct result of the WVU defense. They didn't play a full court, pressing style, but they got UCONN completely out of their comfort zone on offense. UCONN wants to score in transition and i think they had 2 transition points the entire game. The WVU players were always back on defense, always making sure the Huskies had to work to get their shots. The guards did a pretty good job pressuring the ball enough to make shooting difficult, but also making sure they were not going to get beat with dribble penatration (another area where UCONN excells). There were some obvious size mismatches inside and to get around these West Virginia's big men got ball side on nearly every play so that the only pass possible to the big men was over the top. Every now and then they'd leave an angle for a good entry, but this often resulted in turnovers when Uconn would try to through the lob and the helpside defense would arrive on the backside just as the ball was getting there. Of course because WVU played a lot of helpside defense with their interior big men, it made for a lot of offensive rebounding opportunities. In generally i did not think WVU's big men rebounded poorly, just that situations often put them out of position and made rebounding more about athleticism than anything else...Uconn is really athletic. That being said I was very unimpressed with WVU's guards on the glass...particularly the freshman point guard.

Uconn is almost automatic when they catch the ball around the rim. Jeff Adrian just does not miss in there. To me the Huskies are still the team to beat in the conference. They are 4 deep in the backcourt and just as deep up front. Every one of them can finish around the rim. Their only weakness is they do not excell shooting threes, but as they prooved against Gonzaga (in probably the best game i watched all season) they can hit them when it matters most.

I thought this was a great big east basketball game. To beat Uconn you have to take them out of their game. WVU controlled the tempo and denied all transition offense. They made it difficult for the Huskies to pass the ball to the interior (though partly to the detriment of rebounding). Uconn's big men made it really hard for WVU to score inside. Ruoff and Butler really struggled with their perimeter games and WVU clearly missed Mizzoula on offense who was along with Alexander their best player throughout their sweet 16 run last season. This should be a fun yaer in the Big East.

[ralph1950]

I don't like pretty basketball. I like hard nosed, earn everything kind of basketball. You saw that in that game. UCONN is a very good team. THe fact is WVU played without their starting PG, shot 30 percent from the field, and still were in position to win the game.

UC has been without its starting PG the entire season. WVU is choke city. Ruoff pulls up on a 4 on 1 fastbreak to shoot a 3 when down 2 at the end of the game, he misses and the 1 UConn guy there gets the rebound, what kind of coaching is that? Poor coaching ability at crunch time.

[LongTimer]

UC has been without its starting PG the entire season. WVU is choke city. Ruoff pulls up on a 4 on 1 fastbreak to shoot a 3 when down 2 at the end of the game, he misses and the 1 UConn guy there gets the rebound, what kind of coaching is that? Poor coaching ability at crunch time.

Ralph, please get your facts straight. Cam Thouroughman rebounded the missed three pointer and got fouled by the UCONN player going over the back. The announcers questioned the 3-point shot and alluded to the fact that WVU got lucky that they got the rebound and drew the foul. When you are trying to revisit the tired old subject of the former coach and his abilities, at least post the truth!

[bearcatmark]

UC has been without its starting PG the entire season. WVU is choke city. Ruoff pulls up on a 4 on 1 fastbreak to shoot a 3 when down 2 at the end of the game, he misses and the 1 UConn guy there gets the rebound, what kind of coaching is that? Poor coaching ability at crunch time.

Yes Ruoff missing a wide open three late in the game, while down 2 to the most talented team in the Big East is poor coaching. Your act is getting old Ralph. If you have any really comments on the Big East teams (which is what this thread is about) share them. If you are just going to find any thing you can possible to rip on the former coach...take the act elsewhere.

[GoCats1994]

...i mean i know the Big East is good...but the top is utterly ridiculous. Conceivably WVU, UConn, Pitt, Georgetown and Syracuse are all positioned to make a run at a 1 seed (looking at computer ratings to this point). Louisville, Marquette, Notre Dame, and Villanova are all positioned for 1-4 seeds if they play well enough. Just unreal. It's not just that there are 9 possible tourney teams...it is how amazing the top 8 look.

Agreed that there are a lot of good teams in the BE. And I also agree that each of the teams you mention above has the chance to be seeded very high. Although math is math...

There are 16 teams playing 18 games each in the conference. When the season is over, there will be 288 wins, and 288 losses in the BE schedule. The 288 losses add up from a relative conference strength perspective.

I realize there are many factors that impact teams getting invited & seeded. Although unless a couple of the BE teams come close to running the table, the # losses will mount and potentially reduce the number of "attractive" teams.

I still like the BE's chances during tourney time...teams will certainly be battle tested. Although I think the number of 1 and 2 seeds the BE receives will be less than people might think. I think getting 2 of the top 8 seeds is realisitc. 4 (or perhaps as many as 5) out of the top 16 is my best guess.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Who cares about that shot? If it goes in everyone would love it. However, still scratching my head over how any team, especiailly a Bob Huggins coached team, gets absolutely embarassed on the boards as badly as they did last night. Out of position all night long (out of man to man D which makes it worse) and honestly WVU didn't look to want the ball. That's tough to defend.

[bearcatmark]

Who cares about that shot? If it goes in everyone would love it. However, still scratching my head over how any team, especiailly a Bob Huggins coached team, gets absolutely embarassed on the boards as badly as they did last night. Out of position all night long (out of man to man D which makes it worse) and honestly WVU didn't look to want the ball. That's tough to defend.

I pointed out the rebounding thing in my analysis of both teams up above...but i think the rebounding was as much the result of the necessary help defense being played. Once you help on interior defense you make rebounding more a battle of athleticism... Uconn had better athletes. They are going to outrebound everyone. Clealry WVU needs to do a better job (particularly the guards), but i think they sacrafised some rebounding to make sure the Uconn big men did not just catch the ball easily in the post.

[LongTimer]

Who cares about that shot? If it goes in everyone would love it. However, still scratching my head over how any team, especiailly a Bob Huggins coached team, gets absolutely embarassed on the boards as badly as they did last night. Out of position all night long (out of man to man D which makes it worse) and honestly WVU didn't look to want the ball. That's tough to defend.

John Beilein recruited soft players who were great shooters. They played a 1-3-1 zone defense. staying away from man-to-man almost entirely. That was the knock on them when they went to the elite 8 a couple years ago. They shot lights out, but were a poor rebounding team, but were pretty effective playing a somewhat gimmick defense. The current coach recruits tough physical players and stresses rebounding and man-to-man defense. He is a year and a half into coaching a team of his young recruits and the players from the former coach. I think it is easier to teach good fundamental defense than it is to teach rebounding which is size and toughness related. Holding UCONN to 61 points shows the strides made on defense. But, you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. Half his roster is still a different breed of animal than he usually has to work with.

[LongTimer]

Agreed that there are a lot of good teams in the BE. And I also agree that each of the teams you mention above has the chance to be seeded very high. Although math is math...

There are 16 teams playing 18 games each in the conference. When the season is over, there will be 288 wins, and 288 losses in the BE schedule. The 288 losses add up from a relative conference strength perspective.

I realize there are many factors that impact teams getting invited & seeded. Although unless a couple of the BE teams come close to running the table, the # losses will mount and potentially reduce the number of "attractive" teams.

I still like the BE's chances during tourney time...teams will certainly be battle tested. Although I think the number of 1 and 2 seeds the BE receives will be less than people might think. I think getting 2 of the top 8 seeds is realisitc. 4 (or perhaps as many as 5) out of the top 16 is my best guess.

The Big East teams will beat up on each other so much and incur more losses than a typical powerhouse team might incur. For that reason, #1 seeds will be tough to get, simply due to the number of losses that the league champion will probably have. Besides Pitt, just about everyone in the league has already incurred a surprising loss on the road, or a disappointing loss at home.

[jeffto]

I knew it was going to happen. A few in the vocal minority are trying to turn this into a WVU forum. Would a Geo/Syr discussion be allowed on the UC basketball forum. Calling it a Big East discussion is just a backdoor way to try praise the former coach, which is fine - somewhere else! Come on Mike and Keith!

[ralph1950]

Yes Ruoff missing a wide open three late in the game, while down 2 to the most talented team in the Big East is poor coaching. Your act is getting old Ralph. If you have any really comments on the Big East teams (which is what this thread is about) share them. If you are just going to find any thing you can possible to rip on the former coach...take the act elsewhere.


You do not pull up and shoot a 3 when you have a 4 on 1 fast break down 2 late in the game. The players are not listening, BH has lost the team.

[ralph1950]

John Beilein recruited soft players who were great shooters. They played a 1-3-1 zone defense. staying away from man-to-man almost entirely. That was the knock on them when they went to the elite 8 a couple years ago. They shot lights out, but were a poor rebounding team, but were pretty effective playing a somewhat gimmick defense. The current coach recruits tough physical players and stresses rebounding and man-to-man defense. He is a year and a half into coaching a team of his young recruits and the players from the former coach. I think it is easier to teach good fundamental defense than it is to teach rebounding which is size and toughness related. Holding UCONN to 61 points shows the strides made on defense. But, you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. Half his roster is still a different breed of animal than he usually has to work with.

It is good for WVU that Belien's recruits are still around because when they are gone they will not win anything.

[LongTimer]

This past week points out why the Big East is a BEAST this year. Lots of upsets and surprises. I think we have two surprises of our own in store this week.

I wish certain people would ignore me like they said they would. But then, if they ignored me, they wouldn't have anything to post. I really think that they need a group hug or something to help bring the kindness out in them. Until then, I will continue to post so that they have some material. I obviously provide a needed service to many in here and I am happy to oblige.

Now, can we get focused on tonight and help make this league even more ridiculous. It's time to make it the Big East 10!

[bearcatmark]

I knew it was going to happen. A few in the vocal minority are trying to turn this into a WVU forum. Would a Geo/Syr discussion be allowed on the UC basketball forum. Calling it a Big East discussion is just a backdoor way to try praise the former coach, which is fine - somewhere else! Come on Mike and Keith!

What are you talking about? This thread has provided an honest assessment of Uconn and WVU from a game last night...which i was watch and inspired me to look up the strength of the Big East (9 top 25 teams right now). A few haters of the former coach have tried to make the thread about him, but the reason of us talked about what both teams did last night. That is highly relevance to UC since we play the Huskies THIS FRIGGIN WEEKEND. I think WVU showed what you need to do to slow down the Huskies defensively..that is pretty damn relevant to Cincinnati.

[BearcatAlum1]

This past week points out why the Big East is a BEAST this year. Lots of upsets and surprises. I think we have two surprises of our own in store this week.

I wish certain people would ignore me like they said they would. But then, if they ignored me, they wouldn't have anything to post. I really think that they need a group hug or something to help bring the kindness out in them. Until then, I will continue to post so that they have some material. I obviously provide a needed service to many in here and I am happy to oblige.

Now, can we get focused on tonight and help make this league even more ridiculous. It's time to make it the Big East 10!

What is it you do for a living? Or is "LongTimer" a reference to your age and you're retired? I only ask because you are always on this forum making a post.

Alum1

[jeffto]

What are you talking about? This thread has provided an honest assessment of Uconn and WVU from a game last night...which i was watch and inspired me to look up the strength of the Big East (9 top 25 teams right now). A few haters of the former coach have tried to make the thread about him, but the reason of us talked about what both teams did last night. That is highly relevance to UC since we play the Huskies THIS FRIGGIN WEEKEND. I think WVU showed what you need to do to slow down the Huskies defensively..that is pretty damn relevant to Cincinnati.I agree that some aspects are relevant, but I don't remember people starting threads to discuss the Geo./CT game (or any other BEAST matchup), which are just as relevant.

Also, your intent in starting the thread is irrelevant when the Huggins Apologists start their hijacking.

[ME80]

I agree that some aspects are relevant, but I don't remember people starting threads to discuss the Geo./CT game (or any other BEAST matchup), which are just as relevant.

Also, your intent in starting the thread is irrelevant when the Huggins Apologists start their hijacking.

If that is the case no one would ever start a thread on this forum because each one gets hijacked....just like this one since we are no longer talking about Uconn our next opponent ;)

[jeffto]

If that is the case no one would ever start a thread on this forum because each one gets hijacked....just like this one since we are no longer talking about Uconn our next ? opponent ;)You're right about the hijacking. I couldn't care less what Huggins is doing now. He was a good coach for us, but he's gone now. We play his team 1+ times a year. If we need to talk about him it should be in advance of those games.

I believe Prov. is our next game and people usually start threads titled "XXX Game Thread" to discuss upcoming games.