Final Thoughts

[psax889906]

I am signing off of Bearcatnews for a while. The site is currently not worth my time or passion for UC athletics because of the constant pessimism and rambling rhetoric. I hope that over time the site can return to a place where intelligent, thoughtful and considerate discussion can take place concerning all facets of the UC athletics program.

I want to leave you all with a final thought, one which I've been using often over the past few weeks and which holds very, very strong:

Indiana University is 5-12 and 0-5 in the Big Ten. The only team in the conference without a single in conference victory. Looking at the schedule (take a look for yourself... http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=84 ) how many more games will they win this year? UC won 12 in Mick's first season.

Go 'Cats

Psax889906

[FleXcursion]

I am signing off of Bearcatnews for a while. The site is currently not worth my time or passion for UC athletics because of the constant pessimism and rambling rhetoric. I hope that over time the site can return to a place where intelligent, thoughtful and considerate discussion can take place concerning all facets of the UC athletics program.

I want to leave you all with a final thought, one which I've been using often over the past few weeks and which holds very, very strong:

Indiana University is 5-12 and 0-5 in the Big Ten. The only team in the conference without a single in conference victory. Looking at the schedule (take a look for yourself... http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=84 ) how many more games will they win this year? UC won 12 in Mick's first season.

Go 'Cats

Psax889906

You may want to sign back on and change that 12 to an 11.

Bye 'sacks.

[Matt1982]

See ya, it is people like you who refuse to accept the truth. We're not doing well, Mick's not getting the job done so we complain about it, doesn't mean we're not "intelligent" fans. Some people just need to realize disagreements doesn't mean someone is right and someone is wrong... it's a debate, get over it!

[ralph1950]

See ya, it is people like you who refuse to accept the truth. We're not doing well, Mick's not getting the job done so we complain about it, doesn't mean we're not "intelligent" fans. Some people just need to realize disagreements doesn't mean someone is right and someone is wrong... it's a debate, get over it!

Mick is very much getting the job done, he has done a remarkable job in rebuilding the team. The team is progressing each and every year. Last year the team lost to Belmont, Bowling Green, Illinois State, and UAB, this year the team beat Western Illinois, Mississippi State, UNLV, and UAB.

It is just a matter of time. You cannot rebuild a Big East team in 3 years starting with 0 players and 0 recruits.

[jlr1523]

I am signing off of Bearcatnews for a while.......
Psax889906

This truly is a sad day for Bearcat fans everywhere.:rolleyes:

[Thegreatone]

I am signing off of Bearcatnews for a while. The site is currently not worth my time or passion for UC athletics because of the constant pessimism and rambling rhetoric. I hope that over time the site can return to a place where intelligent, thoughtful and considerate discussion can take place concerning all facets of the UC athletics program.

I want to leave you all with a final thought, one which I've been using often over the past few weeks and which holds very, very strong:

Indiana University is 5-12 and 0-5 in the Big Ten. The only team in the conference without a single in conference victory. Looking at the schedule (take a look for yourself... http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=84 ) how many more games will they win this year? UC won 12 in Mick's first season.

Go 'Cats

Psax889906

I hope you reconsider. THis is a good website and I wouldnt let a few idiots ruin in. I like you as a contributor and you bring a lot to the board. Hopefully my man love makes you reconsider, but seriously you should stay tho.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

You cannot rebuild a Big East team in 3 years starting with 0 players and 0 recruits.

Too bad Z and Goin / Thomas weren't aware of that in 2005.

There were several players on scholarship then (not 0) and UC signed plenty of recruits that spring.

[Not Guilty]

Too bad Z and Goin / Thomas weren't aware of that in 2005.

There were several players on scholarship then (not 0) and UC signed plenty of recruits that spring.

There was one player on scholarship and two walk-ons in Brandon Miller and Ronald Allen. Every single player was not Big East caliber though.

And there were no recruits when Mick Cronin was hired. Stop trying to deceive. We all know what happened. You act like you can just trick everyone and its really embarrassing for you.

[Bp4thebest]

I am signing off of Bearcatnews for a while. The site is currently not worth my time or passion for UC athletics because of the constant pessimism and rambling rhetoric. I hope that over time the site can return to a place where intelligent, thoughtful and considerate discussion can take place concerning all facets of the UC athletics program.

I want to leave you all with a final thought, one which I've been using often over the past few weeks and which holds very, very strong:

Indiana University is 5-12 and 0-5 in the Big Ten. The only team in the conference without a single in conference victory. Looking at the schedule (take a look for yourself... http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=84 ) how many more games will they win this year? UC won 12 in Mick's first season.

Go 'Cats

Psax889906

you leave us b/c of "rambling rhetoric" but you leave us with something you been using often the past two weeks? and yeah it was 11 buddy.. look's like you leaving is contributing to the cause already!

[Doss]

Great idea. If people won't play by your rules you take your ball and go home. We knew you on the playground in Finneytown.

[Scheids21]

Everyones so bitter.......:(

[Billy Don]

I am signing off of Bearcatnews for a while. The site is currently not worth my time or passion for UC athletics because of the constant pessimism and rambling rhetoric. I hope that over time the site can return to a place where intelligent, thoughtful and considerate discussion can take place concerning all facets of the UC athletics program.

I want to leave you all with a final thought, one which I've been using often over the past few weeks and which holds very, very strong:

Indiana University is 5-12 and 0-5 in the Big Ten. The only team in the conference without a single in conference victory. Looking at the schedule (take a look for yourself... http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=84 ) how many more games will they win this year? UC won 12 in Mick's first season.

Go 'Cats

Psax889906

It's tough to be a UC basketball fan right now! After 4 long years being an experienced UC basketball fan I've went into my Tony Yates mode. I've got my bearcat basketball heart on idle. In about a year from now I can rev it up again when we play Arkansas- Pine Bluff. Mitchell and the boys will just kick their rear end! Until then.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

There was one player on scholarship and two walk-ons in Brandon Miller and Ronald Allen. Every single player was not Big East caliber though.

And there were no recruits when Mick Cronin was hired. Stop trying to deceive. We all know what happened. You act like you can just trick everyone and its really embarrassing for you.

Ronald Allen was not a walk-on.

Devan Downey and the guard from Louisville (forget his name, Mr Basketball in KY) WERE on scholarship, too.

Plenty of recruits were signed in spring of 2006 (is what I said).

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

It's tough to be a UC basketball fan right now! After 4 long years being an experienced UC basketball fan I've went into my Tony Yates mode. I've got my bearcat basketball heart on idle. In about a year from now I can rev it up again when we play Arkansas- Pine Bluff. Mitchell and the boys will just kick their rear end! Until then.

Not for me. I enjoyed following the Bearcats of Yates and Badger just like those of Jucker or Baker, Catlett or Huggins. And yes, the Cats of Cronin and Kennedy, too.

[cincycpaw]

And now this mesage board has everything...

the extreme optimisim...the extreme pessimism....apathy...and...

The extreme drama queen signing off. I'll never understand why it is that when people don't like a message board and don't want to discuss things there any more, that they feel like they have to create a post.

[cincycpaw]

Not for me. I enjoyed following the Bearcats of Yates and Badger just like those of Jucker or Baker, Catlett or Huggins. And yes, the Cats of Cronin and Kennedy, too.

Really? Man, it's tough to enjoy them now. Not that I'm going anywhere. Go Bearcats!

[Cats4Ever]

What a bandwagon poster. He'll be back. 25 characters.

[ralph1950]

Too bad Z and Goin / Thomas weren't aware of that in 2005.

There were several players on scholarship then (not 0) and UC signed plenty of recruits that spring.

Z and Goin were not the ones who got the DUI and got themselves fired. The only scholarship players were Ced McGowen and Ron Allen, which were next to nothing. There were no Big East recruits available that spring, the recruits signed were signed merely to field a team for the 06-07 season which set the rebuilding process back 2 years. You have to recruit kids starting no later than their freshman year in high school to have a shot at them, this coming year is the first freshman in high school class Mick has had the opportunity to recruit from that point.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Ronald Allen was not a walk-on.

Devan Downey and the guard from Louisville (forget his name, Mr Basketball in KY) WERE on scholarship, too.

Plenty of recruits were signed in spring of 2006 (is what I said).Ronald Allen was given a scholarship by Andy Kennedy to fill out his roster that was thin. It was an emergency "gift" to Mr. Allen. Downey and Tilford both left the program when Mick became head coach so Mick never had the benefit of either playing. That left Mick with McGowan and Allen. He signed his roster in a 3 month recruiting whirlwind so this program could just put a team on the court. To see this team of juco's compete over two seasons was a testament to Mick and Staff. There is no way anybody on here can legitimately debate the lack of foundation and starting point of the Mick Cronin era. Blame whoever you want, Huggs or Z, fact is that Mick took over a depleted program and has had to build this program from the ground up. Vaughn was and is the only player on this roster with two seasons experience and he was part of the thrown together class.

[YouGuessedItFrankStallone]

Stick around psax! It'll make it all the more enjoyable for you in a year or 2 when Mick's built a winner and we get to bump all these old "Fire Mick" posts and watch these haters change their screen names :D

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Z and Goin were not the ones who got the DUI and got themselves fired. The only scholarship players were Ced McGowen and Ron Allen, which were next to nothing. There were no Big East recruits available that spring, the recruits signed were signed merely to field a team for the 06-07 season which set the rebuilding process back 2 years. You have to recruit kids starting no later than their freshman year in high school to have a shot at them, this coming year is the first freshman in high school class Mick has had the opportunity to recruit from that point.

Pure, unadulterated BS. Phil Cox got DUI-ed a few years ago but UC covered it up. Hence it was not possible to fire others for that offense. At least not easily.

If anyone was to get fired after DUI, it should have been done in 2004 (not 2005) and the coaching change made THEN (not 2006).

There were 4 players ON SCHOLARSHIP in March 2006. McGowan, Allen, DOMONIC TILFORD, and DEVAN DOWNEY. Mick ran 1 off and let the other 1 go.

Cronin was recruiting plenty of players in 2005 and 2006 at HS and JuCo level. He signed a bunch each year (2006, 2007, 2008) at UC.

[ralph1950]

Pure, unadulterated BS. Phil Cox got DUI-ed a few years ago but UC covered it up. Hence it was not possible to fire others for that offense. At least not easily.

If anyone was to get fired after DUI, it should have been done in 2004 (not 2005) and the coaching change made THEN (not 2006).

There were 4 players ON SCHOLARSHIP in March 2006. McGowan, Allen, DOMONIC TILFORD, and DEVAN DOWNEY. Mick ran 1 off and let the other 1 go.

Cronin was recruiting plenty of players in 2005 and 2006 at HS and JuCo level. He signed a bunch each year (2006, 2007, 2008) at UC.

It is your statement that is pure unadulterated BS. McGowen could not play a lick, Ron Allen could not play a lick, Dominic Telford could not play a lick, you are proving my statement that BH's 03,04, 05 recruiting classes were absolutely horrible. Downey was the only decent player of the lot, and Downey would not commit to staying at UC, he wanted to go to Ole Miss with AK, so Mick recruited Deonta Vaughn to take his place.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Pure, unadulterated BS. Phil Cox got DUI-ed a few years ago but UC covered it up. Hence it was not possible to fire others for that offense. At least not easily.

If anyone was to get fired after DUI, it should have been done in 2004 (not 2005) and the coaching change made THEN (not 2006).

There were 4 players ON SCHOLARSHIP in March 2006. McGowan, Allen, DOMONIC TILFORD, and DEVAN DOWNEY. Mick ran 1 off and let the other 1 go.

Cronin was recruiting plenty of players in 2005 and 2006 at HS and JuCo level. He signed a bunch each year (2006, 2007, 2008) at UC.Let's not forget that Huggins walked out on an agreement. he was to serve the remaining two seasons on his contract as U.C. Head Coach. Had he honored his agreement, rather than walking out in August (he was not fired) the school could have hired a coach and had some continuity similiar to the Purdue situation a few years back. This is the part you all like to leave out. Huggins Was Not Fired!!! He left in August. If he valued the program and the fans as some on here contest, he would have looked out for the best interest of both. he chose to look out for himself, as he did at K. St. and one day will at W. Virginia. Great coach with a sub-par moral compass. Bob Huggins is equally at fault with the admin on this one. Regardless of useless stats and die hard Huggins fans sensibilities. He abandoned the program he helped rebuild and left it for dead.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

It is your statement that is pure unadulterated BS. McGowen could not play a lick, Ron Allen could not play a lick, Dominic Telford could not play a lick, you are proving my statement that BH's 03,04, 05 recruiting classes were absolutely horrible. Downey was the only decent player of the lot, and Downey would not commit to staying at UC, he wanted to go to Ole Miss with AK, so Mick recruited Deonta Vaughn to take his place.

Pure 100% baloney again. Are you an Elder alum by chance???

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Let's not forget that Huggins walked out on an agreement. he was to serve the remaining two seasons on his contract as U.C. Head Coach. Had he honored his agreement, rather than walking out in August (he was not fired) the school could have hired a coach and had some continuity similiar to the Purdue situation a few years back. This is the part you all like to leave out. Huggins Was Not Fired!!! He left in August. If he valued the program and the fans as some on here contest, he would have looked out for the best interest of both. he chose to look out for himself, as he did at K. St. and one day will at W. Virginia. Great coach with a sub-par moral compass. Bob Huggins is equally at fault with the admin on this one. Regardless of useless stats and die hard Huggins fans sensibilities. He abandoned the program he helped rebuild and left it for dead.

Never said he was fired. UC paid him 3 years worth of $alary to leave early.

IF a coaching change was going to be made, it should have been done in 2004 or 2005, not spread over 3 seasons.

Z had no balls. Literally or otherwise.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Let's not forget that Huggins walked out on an agreement. he was to serve the remaining two seasons on his contract as U.C. Head Coach. Had he honored his agreement, rather than walking out in August (he was not fired) the school could have hired a coach and had some continuity similiar to the Purdue situation a few years back. This is the part you all like to leave out. Huggins Was Not Fired!!! He left in August. If he valued the program and the fans as some on here contest, he would have looked out for the best interest of both. he chose to look out for himself, as he did at K. St. and one day will at W. Virginia. Great coach with a sub-par moral compass. Bob Huggins is equally at fault with the admin on this one. Regardless of useless stats and die hard Huggins fans sensibilities. He abandoned the program he helped rebuild and left it for dead.

He was forced out in August 2005. UC said Take This (3 years $alary) or you will be fired. Read the linked information here on BN website.

[ralph1950]

Pure 100% baloney again. Are you an Elder alum by chance???

Once again your statement is 100% baloney. My statement was 100% accurate.

[Bearcat Jeff]

He was forced out in August 2005. UC said Take This (3 years $alary) or you will be fired. Read the linked information here on BN website.
Wrong, the settlement was part of the terms of his departure. The original agreement was that he would coach the remaining part of his contract. Two separate issues. he felt hamstrung by the situation and began a negotiation to get out of the remaining terms of the contract. Let's keep the issues straight.

[Bearcat Jeff]

He wanted 2 more years to effectively recruit. That's when the buyout process began.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Reported by ESPN: On May 16, Huggins held a news conference and said he would honor the rest of his contract -- a public airing that did not sit well with Zimpher & Co., according to the letter released Tuesday. After a brief détente, UC says in the same letter that Huggins' people resumed agitating in July for a contract extension. The answer remained no.

As we know what followed was the ultimatum and options for his departure. He could have honored his word and coached the remainder of his contract. He chose to once again try a power move against the administration. Huggins himself admitted to asking for an extension. That was the final piece that led to his dismissal. Now the facts are clear. Thank you.

[ralph1950]

He wanted 2 more years to effectively recruit. That's when the buyout process began.

He should have been punished by forcing him to coach the remaining 3 years of his contract with the players he had recruited.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Actually it was a 3 year extension or to have the roll over clause re-instated on his contract. I have attached the letter from the university.

On at least four occasions, from a period of May 16, 2005 to this summer, the University has been contacted either through you or personally by Mr. Huggins through various University officials or friends of the University, concerning the possibility of reinstating either the four-year roll over or extending the contract. Most recently, I received a call from you in early July requesting that we meet to discuss these same contract issues. Thus, on July 12, we met and I memorialized that meeting in my August 8, 2005 letter to you. As set forth in the letter, you made three requests during our meeting. First, you sought a three-year extension, which would extend the contract to five years. In the alternative, you sought a reinstatement of the four-year automatic extension that had been removed in June 2004.

Finally, you commented that if either of the above options were not possible, playing out the remaining two years on the contract was simply not wise "as it was not good for anyone." Thus, at my request, you proposed a third option, which was a payment of $2,630,000 ($1 million for each of the two years remaining on the contract and $630,000 tax liability as a result of an annuity). You also informed me that, for purposes of retirement and health benefits under the Ohio Public Employees Retirement System ("OPERS"), Mr. Huggins sought an employment arrangement with the University whereby the money would be paid out over at least five years.

Recall in my August 8th letter that the University accepted, without argument, that Mr. Huggins was unwilling to continue coaching without a contract extension. Given the events of the past and plans for the future, the University also believes that continuing the contract would be inadvisable. Accordingly, I informed you that the University agreed with you that two years remained on Mr. Huggins contract and that it was obligated to compensate him approximately $700,000 for each year.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Things get strangely silent when facts are revealed.

[Billy Don]

Things get strangely silent when facts are revealed.

The facts are UC got rid of a coach with the 4th most wins of any active coach in division 1 college basketball and he is adding the wins to his total and will continue to do so for years to come in the Big East. Also added another coach in the Big East who will keep his team ahead of UC in the conference standings. . In the meanwhile we have a coach with a losing record at UC and will go into year 4 with a losing record. Sounds like we came out on the SHORT end of the stick. How about those facts?

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Goin made a verbal commitment to Huggins that resulted in a 3rd year ($) added to the buyout. I think Goin did not intend to do so but he misspoke.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Wrong, the settlement was part of the terms of his departure. The original agreement was that he would coach the remaining part of his contract. Two separate issues. he felt hamstrung by the situation and began a negotiation to get out of the remaining terms of the contract. Let's keep the issues straight.

Originally, yes. But in August 2005, it was Take 3 Years Or You Will Be Fired.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

He should have been punished by forcing him to coach the remaining 3 years of his contract with the players he had recruited.

Had that happened, UC would have better W-L records than 21-13, 11-19, or 13-19 for sure.

[Bearcat Jeff]

The facts are UC got rid of a coach with the 4th most wins of any active coach in division 1 college basketball and he is adding the wins to his total and will continue to do so for years to come in the Big East. Also added another coach in the Big East who will keep his team ahead of UC in the conference standings. . In the meanwhile we have a coach with a losing record at UC and will go into year 4 with a losing record. Sounds like we came out on the SHORT end of the stick. How about those facts? As usual my friend you ignore the part that the former coach played in this debacle. As does '58. Once again read the facts. Huggins agreed to coach the remainder of his contract. After which he continually requested an extension or the roll over claus be reinstated. He and his attorney (Katz) were told neither were going to happen. Katz then told the admin this isn't going to work for anybody and the admin asked him to provide a 3rd option and Katz requested the buyout. The admin jumped on it and gave Huggins the ultimatum of accepting or get fired. Had Huggins stuck to the original terms the program would not be in the shape it's in. Both he and the admin are equally at fault. All I would like to see is the Huggins diehards admit that he played a large percent in destroying this program. I say admin 55%, Huggins 45%.

As for the rest of your points, they are open to debate till this program is back on solid ground after the admin and Huggs effectively destroyed it. Currently West Virginia and U.C. have the same amount of conference wins. West Virginia is 2-2 and U.C. 2-4. The only head to head meeting resulted in a blowout in favor of the current coach with far less talent. Time will tell the outcome. Right now it is too early to compare based on inherited circumstances.

[ralph1950]

The facts are UC got rid of a coach with the 4th most wins of any active coach in division 1 college basketball and he is adding the wins to his total and will continue to do so for years to come in the Big East. Also added another coach in the Big East who will keep his team ahead of UC in the conference standings. . In the meanwhile we have a coach with a losing record at UC and will go into year 4 with a losing record. Sounds like we came out on the SHORT end of the stick. How about those facts?

Facts: he got himself fired for a DUI and general embarrassment to the university, WVU will fall off big time when Belien's recruits are gone, it is WVU that will always be looking up at UC and the rest of the Big East in the conference standings, the current coach has a losing record because BH destroyed the UC basketball program, it takes time but Mick is the man who will bring National Championships back to UC (took Dean Smith 21 years to win one at North Carolina), UC definitely came out on the long end of the stick. These are the real facts.

[ralph1950]

Had that happened, UC would have better W-L records than 21-13, 11-19, or 13-19 for sure.

More like 18-15, 8-22, 10-22.

[cincycpaw]

Wrong, the settlement was part of the terms of his departure. The original agreement was that he would coach the remaining part of his contract. Two separate issues. he felt hamstrung by the situation and began a negotiation to get out of the remaining terms of the contract. Let's keep the issues straight.

So, Huggins left because he would do more harm to the program by staying and not being able to recruit for 2 years...then the stupid Admin just hamstring the interm HC, resulting in the same outcome.

And yet, Huggs gets blamed for the lack of recruiting. How can you have it both ways?

[cincycpaw]

More like 18-15, 8-22, 10-22.

SO, you think we'd be worse than if we had Devan Downey still? That's crazy talk, regardless of what you think of Huggs.

[bearcatmark]

SO, you think we'd be worse than if we had Devan Downey still? That's crazy talk, regardless of what you think of Huggs.

Ralph is not exactly known for rational thoughts

[LongTimer]

Ralph is not exactly known for rational thoughts

In Mick's first year here, the two best players he recruited turned out to be ineligible. The best of those never ended up playing and the other had to sit out a year. In addition to that, he refused to accept Devan Downey back when he told Mick that he had changed his mind about leaving. That has turned out to be a brilliant decision. How would our team be doing if we had Downey the last 3 years, especially this year? Mick has a lot to do with where we are now....languishing with the bottom feeders of the BE.

[IAMWILLIAMSON]

Cronin is a good coach, great body

[IAMWILLIAMSON]

but his triceps, not lookin to good they need to put cronin in my weight training program, and he needs a tan

[Bearcat Jeff]

So, Huggins left because he would do more harm to the program by staying and not being able to recruit for 2 years...then the stupid Admin just hamstring the interm HC, resulting in the same outcome.

And yet, Huggs gets blamed for the lack of recruiting. How can you have it both ways?
He would not have done more harm to the program!! That is the point! The program could have hired a coach to sit with Huggins, ala Purdue when Gene Keady left, and had continuity. It was Huggins and his attorney that proposed the buyout. It was Huggins that chose to not honor the contract.