Football has raised the bar!

[Rock]

I feel with the success that the football team has had that the expectations of the UC basketball fans are extremely high. The football team went to the Orange Bowl. We want the basketball team to go to the Final Four NOW!!:rolleyes:

[Forsure21]

Football games next fall will be rocking. Best family event in town.

[BearcatRob33]

not really a necessary thread.

[ucat4]

I think the success of the 90's and early 00's had already raised the bar. The bar has been raised for quite a while now.

[coach]

i think quite the opposite. success in football has made bad play on the bball side more tolerable. we clearly have a young team, but they are fundementally bad and a lot of fans are incorrectly placing it on inexperience. that is some of it, but unfortunately, we have a roster of guys who need a lot of work on things that should not be second nature at this point.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I feel with the success that the football team has had that the expectations of the UC basketball fans are extremely high. The football team went to the Orange Bowl. We want the basketball team to go to the Final Four NOW!!:rolleyes:

UC has been in 1 FF over the past 45 seasons.

NOW is a little unrealistic.

[bearcated]

I don't see a linkage between the two. But, hey, maybe the basketball team can go the Orange Bowl next year, too!

[Deaf_Bearcat]

I don't see UC coming to Final Four this year. It was badly damaged a few years ago and it will take a reasonable time to get it rebuilt (not reloaded). I will agree with you if it has been 5 or over years since Mick's hiring date.

[carolinacatfan]

I don't think anyone expected Final Four. Some expected NCAA, which I would agree even is unrealistic. However, from the games I've been able to attend and watch this is a poor executing team and at times plays with little or no emotion.
I have to agree that the success of football has definitely supplied a distraction and made things more tolerable.

[BearcatAlum1]

So, when the football team was in the gutter, did the basketball program raise the bar for football?

[shaunsimpson]

It may have. Because of the success of the basketball team the middle of the road football team didn't have attendence or support of any kind. I am not positive of a direct connection since it could be general success that is the factor.

[Not Guilty]

I love both teams, but its too bad the basketball team doesn't play in a conference as weak as the football team does.

[LongTimer]

I feel with the success that the football team has had that the expectations of the UC basketball fans are extremely high. The football team went to the Orange Bowl. We want the basketball team to go to the Final Four NOW!!:rolleyes:

Football has absolutely nothing to do with Basketball. Our past basketball success has everything to do with our frustrations now. The administration screwed our brains out with this fiasco. Mick inherited the mess and hasn't been the savior we expected thus far. He has done ok, but not good enough to satisfy everyone. We are suffering through having to watch a product that we are unfamiliar to watching, and it is painful as ****. Some want patience, some want to win now. Thus, we have the present day state of this forum....bickering and arguing! When we start consistently winning, then we can all live and post in harmony and love. :)

[bearcatbret]

MC is producing a product that we are not familiar to watching? Did you go to the collesium and watch? Did you go to the Garden and watch? This team is better than those and in a much better league. The Tony Yates era was terrible and he took over for a bad team. Yates was a very friendly, likeable guy. He would stop and talk with anyone.

MC is doing his job. He is building the program back. How can anyone expect for him to start with zero players three years ago and be a championship game. On the other hand, the football team was getting better every year and MD left it in good shape for BK. No comparision.

If you want to compare UC Bball to anything, look at Tulane after the death penalty and hot-rod williams. Has Tulane ever bounced back after that? I think that is the better comparision. In essence, NZ, the BOT, and Wyler issued a death penalty on UC Bball. Even Bobby had something to do with it. Give MC time. Three years is not enough and he has shown improvement each of those years and he has shown better recruits each year.

[LongTimer]

MC is producing a product that we are not familiar to watching? Did you go to the collesium and watch? Did you go to the Garden and watch? This team is better than those and in a much better league. The Tony Yates era was terrible and he took over for a bad team. Yates was a very friendly, likeable guy. He would stop and talk with anyone.

MC is doing his job. He is building the program back. How can anyone expect for him to start with zero players three years ago and be a championship game. On the other hand, the football team was getting better every year and MD left it in good shape for BK. No comparision.

If you want to compare UC Bball to anything, look at Tulane after the death penalty and hot-rod williams. Has Tulane ever bounced back after that? I think that is the better comparision. In essence, NZ, the BOT, and Wyler issued a death penalty on UC Bball. Even Bobby had something to do with it. Give MC time. Three years is not enough and he has shown improvement each of those years and he has shown better recruits each year.

If this post made any sense, I would respond to it. Most people in here don't even know who Tony Yates is and yes, I went to every single game in the 80's. Don't know what that has to do with what I said though. :confused:

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

MC is producing a product that we are not familiar to watching? Did you go to the collesium and watch? Did you go to the Garden and watch? This team is better than those and in a much better league. The Tony Yates era was terrible and he took over for a bad team. Yates was a very friendly, likeable guy. He would stop and talk with anyone.

MC is doing his job. He is building the program back. How can anyone expect for him to start with zero players three years ago and be a championship game. On the other hand, the football team was getting better every year and MD left it in good shape for BK. No comparision.

If you want to compare UC Bball to anything, look at Tulane after the death penalty and hot-rod williams. Has Tulane ever bounced back after that? I think that is the better comparision. In essence, NZ, the BOT, and Wyler issued a death penalty on UC Bball. Even Bobby had something to do with it. Give MC time. Three years is not enough and he has shown improvement each of those years and he has shown better recruits each year.

No Death Penalty issued in 2005 or 2006. UC had a limited roster in March 2006 (Downey, McGowan, Tilford, Allen) because no recruits would sign with UC until they knew who the coach would be. But then several GOOD recruits signed that spring.

And the 2007 and 2008 classes offered plenty of PT and chance to play in BE to recruits. No reason why those classes were restricted in any way.

Cronin will coach at UC as long as he wants, regardless of results. So long as players remain trouble free and graduate, that is.

[Bearcat Jeff]

'58 you just throw stuff out and hope it hits the wall. Trouble is there are some on here that buy into the half truths you speak. Fact is the Downey and Tilford were not here when it mattered. Tilford didn't want to be here and Downey waffled back and forth till Mick had to make a decision to put a team on the court. That left Allen and McGowan. U.C. was dealt as close to the death penalty as a program could get. You like to say Mick recruited at Murray St. so he should have had recruits in the pipeline. As much as you follow recruiting you know OVC recruits are not BEast recruits. Therefore instead of tying scholarships up for 4 seasons with inferior talent you do it for 2 with juco players. The late start obviously put him 2 seasons behind in recruiting BEast talent to a university totally in the ashes. Again, as a recruitnik you know that it isn't easy to recruit to an urban campus let alone one whose program was just decimated. Regardless of your bias you know this to be true but still throw out half truths as truth. Lastly, and let me educate you in business. Athletics has 2 major revenue stream. One being Men's Basketball, the other Football. In order to continue to get funding for all the major projects that have been undertaken, and the future wish list (including new hoops arena), both have to be productive. If fans aren't filling seats and buying jerseys, money isn't coming in. Mick Cronin has two more seasons to have this program on track. If the base hasn't returned there will be another coach.

There is so much you could add constructively to this forum if you chose to. Instead you choose to throw things out as fact that sets the program up for failure. You are better than that.

[bearcatmark]

Fact is the Downey and Tilford were not here when it mattered. Tilford didn't want to be here and Downey waffled back and forth till Mick had to make a decision to put a team on the court. That left Allen and McGowan.

Just out of curiousity why would Downey waffling back in forth make a huge difference. He was dealing with a very difficult decision. The coach he came here to play for had been fired, the coach he played for that season had not been retained. Mick was going to try to sign 5 or 6 guys regardless. Vaughn was not going to be tacking anyone else's scholarship that season and he was a good enough talent that you certainly would have wanted him for 3 seasons if it was at all possible.

I do not know how accurate the story is about Downey finally deciding to stay and Mick saying no, but to me that was a very poor decision.

[Bearcat Jeff]

It matters because in the situation you have to know who is with you and who isn't. The program was starting from scratch and you have to have people that want to be a part of the rebuild 100%. I just took over a second department that was failing and asked the supervisor straight up if he was up to the commitment to change things. I gave him two days to make a decision. When he didn't I replaced him. If you are rebuilding you have to have a commitment to that task or you have to replace people.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

'58 you just throw stuff out and hope it hits the wall. Trouble is there are some on here that buy into the half truths you speak. Fact is the Downey and Tilford were not here when it mattered. Tilford didn't want to be here and Downey waffled back and forth till Mick had to make a decision to put a team on the court. That left Allen and McGowan. U.C. was dealt as close to the death penalty as a program could get. You like to say Mick recruited at Murray St. so he should have had recruits in the pipeline. As much as you follow recruiting you know OVC recruits are not BEast recruits. Therefore instead of tying scholarships up for 4 seasons with inferior talent you do it for 2 with juco players. The late start obviously put him 2 seasons behind in recruiting BEast talent to a university totally in the ashes. Again, as a recruitnik you know that it isn't easy to recruit to an urban campus let alone one whose program was just decimated. Regardless of your bias you know this to be true but still throw out half truths as truth. Lastly, and let me educate you in business. Athletics has 2 major revenue stream. One being Men's Basketball, the other Football. In order to continue to get funding for all the major projects that have been undertaken, and the future wish list (including new hoops arena), both have to be productive. If fans aren't filling seats and buying jerseys, money isn't coming in. Mick Cronin has two more seasons to have this program on track. If the base hasn't returned there will be another coach.

There is so much you could add constructively to this forum if you chose to. Instead you choose to throw things out as fact that sets the program up for failure. You are better than that.

Cronin ran Tilford off and let Downey transfer. Both were on the roster in March 2006.

There was no Death Penalty in 2006. UC had ample scholarships to offer in 2006, 07, and 08. Nothing but another excuse.

Let ME educate YOU about RECRUITING. Mick Cronin scouted tons of players in 2005 and 06 that were above the level of Murray State. He had contacts with 100's of HS and JuCo players. He could offer them UC scholarships instead of MSU.

Ed Badger got 5 years. Tony Yates got 6. Mick Cronin will get as many as he wants SO LONG AS his players graduate and stay out of trouble, and MC avoids any NCAA issues.

As long as HE wants, no doubt.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

It matters because in the situation you have to know who is with you and who isn't. The program was starting from scratch and you have to have people that want to be a part of the rebuild 100%. I just took over a second department that was failing and asked the supervisor straight up if he was up to the commitment to change things. I gave him two days to make a decision. When he didn't I replaced him. If you are rebuilding you have to have a commitment to that task or you have to replace people.

Hopefully Devan Downey was given more than 2 days to decide. He's a STUD PG at South Carolina now.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Cronin ran Tilford off and let Downey transfer. Both were on the roster in March 2006.

There was no Death Penalty in 2006. UC had ample scholarships to offer in 2006, 07, and 08. Nothing but another excuse.

Let ME educate YOU about RECRUITING. Mick Cronin scouted tons of players in 2005 and 06 that were above the level of Murray State. He had contacts with 100's of HS and JuCo players. He could offer them UC scholarships instead of MSU.

Ed Badger got 5 years. Tony Yates got 6. Mick Cronin will get as many as he wants SO LONG AS his players graduate and stay out of trouble, and MC avoids any NCAA issues.

As long as HE wants, no doubt. You can't educate me on anything. I haven't seen you make one valid point in two seasons. Nothing that matters. They may have been there in March, they weren't when the season started. As I said it was as close to the death penalty as you could get. Now you need to get a clue and come up with points that are appropriate to the discussion not try to twist them to make your point. that's what you do. He was not recruiting to Cincinnati, he was recruiting to Murray St.. Big difference. Continue to throw out useless info and I'll continue to shoot it down with truth.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Hopefully Devan Downey was given more than 2 days to decide. He's a STUD PG at South Carolina now.
Doesn't matter. he wasn't 100% committed to the task at hand. You have to have guys that believe in what you're doing.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

You can't educate me on anything. I haven't seen you make one valid point in two seasons. Nothing that matters. They may have been there in March, they weren't when the season started. As I said it was as close to the death penalty as you could get. Now you need to get a clue and come up with points that are appropriate to the discussion not try to twist them to make your point. that's what you do. He was not recruiting to Cincinnati, he was recruiting to Murray St.. Big difference. Continue to throw out useless info and I'll continue to shoot it down with truth.

You ignored the salient points. (You may have to look up Salient)

Not close to Death Penalty. Recruiters scout 100's of players, even many they are unlikely to sign.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Doesn't matter. he wasn't 100% committed to the task at hand. You have to have guys that believe in what you're doing.

Sure does matter. 2 days is ridiculously short time to allow Downey to decide.

[Bearcat Jeff]

You ignored the salient points. (You may have to look up Salient)

Not close to Death Penalty. Recruiters scout 100's of players, even many they are unlikely to sign.
Blah blah blah blah blah..recruiter's recruit players they can land to their schools. Recruiting is expensive and you don't waste significant time recruiting players that you can't land. Regardless '58, those players would have been long gone by late March and April. Again, you don't throw 4 years away. You waste 2.

[bearcatmark]

Blah blah blah blah blah..recruiter's recruit players they can land to their schools. Recruiting is expensive and you don't waste significant time recruiting players that you can't land. Regardless '58, those players would have been long gone by late March and April. Again, you don't throw 4 years away. You waste 2.

How do you know he would not have been committed? He was a kid put in an incredibly difficult situation who took some time to make his decision.

The Bearcats were not going to have a full roster of scholarship guys that season anyways. Mick was under no pressure to make him make a quick decision. I'm sorry, but i find your point on this to be ludicrous.

If Downey ultimately decided he wanted to stay he should have remained a Bearcat. (i still don't know how accurate these reports are that he did decide he wanted to stay).