Win out or stay home

[juckerrules]

I believe the Cats have to win out to have a realistic shot at the NCAA tourney.

They haven't defeated a single team that is in the tourney - even if they win out, they will still have defeated no one in the top 25, because the very act of beating Syracuse will make sure they aren't ranked (they're probably out next poll anyway after losing to Villanova)

Losing to either WV or Syracuse nullifies any bounce that beating the other one would bring, and winning both and then losing to either South Florida or Seton Hall would be a tourney breaker.

That leaves winning out - and a win or 2 in the conference tourney for good measure.

I really think that's the only way they get in.

Am I wrong?

[shaunsimpson]

Strange think is i don't think they have to win out, but they have to beat the two biggest teams on the schedule in WVU and Syracuse. A loss to South Florida won't hurt much if we get two top 20 wins.

[ralph1950]

I believe the Cats have to win out to have a realistic shot at the NCAA tourney.

They haven't defeated a single team that is in the tourney - even if they win out, they will still have defeated no one in the top 25, because the very act of beating Syracuse will make sure they aren't ranked (they're probably out next poll anyway after losing to Villanova)

Losing to either WV or Syracuse nullifies any bounce that beating the other one would bring, and winning both and then losing to either South Florida or Seton Hall would be a tourney breaker.

That leaves winning out - and a win or 2 in the conference tourney for good measure.

I really think that's the only way they get in.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong.

Also, there is nothing wrong with staying home. Getting to go the 5/3rd Arena to watch NIT or CBI games is okay by me.

[Matt1982]

Not even close, if we lose to USF, we're done. We absolutely MUST beat USF and Seton Hall, then we have to at worst win 1 of 2 against Syracuse and WV... the odds are grossly stacked against us making the NCAA at this point. Chalk it up as an NIT season unless we get lucky a pull out the 2 game shockers vs. SU and WVU... but I don't see it happening.

[slimm]

I believe the Cats have to win out to have a realistic shot at the NCAA tourney.

They haven't defeated a single team that is in the tourney - even if they win out, they will still have defeated no one in the top 25, because the very act of beating Syracuse will make sure they aren't ranked (they're probably out next poll anyway after losing to Villanova)

Losing to either WV or Syracuse nullifies any bounce that beating the other one would bring, and winning both and then losing to either South Florida or Seton Hall would be a tourney breaker.

That leaves winning out - and a win or 2 in the conference tourney for good measure.

I really think that's the only way they get in.

Am I wrong?

I agree & this scenario has been posted by more than a few others.

[shaunsimpson]

Matt didn't think we would win 15 games so of course you don't. 3 wins and 2 vs syracuse and wvu would give us 10 conference wins, 20 wins, 2 top 20 wins. I think that gets us in even with a usf loss.

[London 'Cat]

Because they did not beat Pitt or Louisville, the 'Cats probably do need to win the last four games to earn the bid. The problem is that they are likely to finish the regular season with zero wins against teams above them in the BEast standings. I think that seals their fate. Winning the last four is their only chance, which is a longshot, IMO,

[London 'Cat]

In addition, due to the young makeup of the team and the fact that everyone returns next year (barring injury, release, transfer or other unforeseen circumstances), playing in the NIT may be better for the team going forward. Playing one NCAA game vs. 2-3 or more NIT games would be better for the team - more practices, more games, experiencing a legitimate post-season tournament. All of these will help the team next year.

[Matt1982]

Syracuse won 20 games last season and went to the NIT... UC will be in the same boat this year, we simply won the games we should have and lost the ones we should have... that does not grant us NCAA consideration unfortunately. If we lose to SU and WVU... we'll be 0-9 against good teams...bottom line is, .500 will NOT get us in and 10-8 is still not even a lock given our struggles against good teams.

[ucfan1980]

Yes, you are wrong.

Also, there is nothing wrong with staying home. Getting to go the 5/3rd Arena to watch NIT or CBI games is okay by me.


I dont even understand the motivation behind this thought...Is there any UC Fan on the planet that is "OK" with not going to the NCAA tourney? I for one am not "OK" with that. I want to win, and i want to partake in the post season tourney, that we have not made 3 straight years. I am not "OK" with sitting at home watching a losers bracket of teams. Sure its college basketball, but its after the fact, and fulfills no goals that i am after as a UC fan, and im sure it does not fulfill the goals of any player or coach on the squad.

The fact that the bearcats played extremely flat, and without emotion and toughness, especially in the 2nd half of saturday's game, does not make me feel "OK" with settling for a losers bracket tourney. I want more.

[ucat4]

You have to remember, Ralph's expectations are very low and he's ok with settling for less. Just be glad he's not the head coach.

[BeastUC]

They haven't defeated a single team that is in the tourney - even if they win out, they will still have defeated no one in the top 25, because the very act of beating Syracuse will make sure they aren't ranked (they're probably out next poll anyway after losing to Villanova)
[/QUOTE]

They haven't defeated a team that's in WHAT tourney?

[Doss]

Here is where it stands (coorect me if I am wrong):

SayExcuse 7-7 left SJ (W), UC (L), RU (W), Marq (L) final 9-9
WVU 8-6 left UC (L), USF (W), Dep (W), UL (L) final 10-8
Prov. 8-7 left PU (L),RU (W),Nova (L) final 9-9
ND 6-8 left RU (W), UConn (L), Nova (L), SJ (W) final 8-10
UC 7-7 left WVU (W), Syr (W), USF (W), SH (W) final 11-7 SIXTH PLACE

If UC loses to SayExcuse and Huggs Thugs then WVU 11-7, SayExcuse 10-8, Prov 9-9 and UC 9-9 (Prov wins tie break)and we finish 9th.

If I got this wrong I welcome corrections.

[Forsure21]

Look at the other bubble teams who lost this weekend.

Ohio State (twice this week)
Michigan(lost Iowa)
Wisconsin (lost to MSU)
Tennessee
Cal
USC
Virginia Tech
Davidson

[Joe_Pong]

They aren't getting in even if they do win out...unless by winning out you are including the conference toyrnament.

There is almost zero chance.

[catsfan32]

^ha thanks for the laugh joe pong, if/when we make the tournament i hope you're the first one to admit you were wrong!

[Forsure21]

There is a great chance we get in. The bubble is WEAK this year.

[Scheids21]

I know, isnt Joe Pong funny? His humorous and unnecessary negativity actually brightens my day.

[Lobot]

I think winning the two easy games and either Cuse or WVU plus one in the tourney would put us in. A lot depends on where we finish and get seeded in the BEast tourney.

BTW I saw tickets in the second deck for Tuesday at MSG for $80 on Choice Tickets if we happen to have to play that day.

[BearcatMax54]

If UC goes 4-0 they have to be in right? I mean 11-7 in the best conference in the land? Who is gonna deny that?

[London 'Cat]

Here is where it stands (coorect me if I am wrong):

SayExcuse 7-7 left SJ (W), UC (L), RU (W), Marq (L) final 9-9
WVU 8-6 left UC (L), USF (W), Dep (W), UL (L) final 10-8
Prov. 8-7 left PU (L),RU (W),Nova (L) final 9-9
ND 6-8 left RU (W), UConn (L), Nova (L), SJ (W) final 8-10
UC 7-7 left WVU (W), Syr (W), USF (W), SH (W) final 11-7 SIXTH PLACE

If UC loses to SayExcuse and Huggs Thugs then WVU 11-7, SayExcuse 10-8, Prov 9-9 and UC 9-9 (Prov wins tie break)and we finish 9th.

If I got this wrong I welcome corrections.

Under either scenario, UC will not have beaten any team that sits above it in the BEast standings. I don't think the committee will be impressed enough to invite a team to teh NCAA tournament that won only the games it should have, and lost all the games it sohuld have. This is an NIT resume, I am sad to concede.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I don't think they have to win them all, but they have to go 3-1 and get at least 1 solid win in the BEast Tournament. I think they can beat both WVU and Syracuse. I agree they can't lose to either S. Hall or S. Florida. My guess is they will beat WVU at home, lose to Syracuse and beat the two teams left that they should. If they can get 1 win in the conference tourny I think it'll get them in. Just my opinion. Lots of so called bubble teams are losing. The ideal that the Big Ten should get 8 bids is an absolute joke.

[Bruce Monnin]

If UC wins 4 of the next 6 (3 of last 4 regular season, 1-1 in Big East tournament), they are in.

That makes UC 21-12 (11-9 Big East).

And people need to argue the other side. Being 0-8 vs the top 25 means this team would be 21-4 vs the teams not in the top 25. There will not be another bubble team with close to that mark.

[GoCats247]

Yes, you are wrong.

Also, there is nothing wrong with staying home. Getting to go the 5/3rd Arena to watch NIT or CBI games is okay by me.

Is this what the program has become?

[shaunsimpson]

Syracuse won 20 games last season and went to the NIT... UC will be in the same boat this year, we simply won the games we should have and lost the ones we should have... that does not grant us NCAA consideration unfortunately. If we lose to SU and WVU... we'll be 0-9 against good teams...bottom line is, .500 will NOT get us in and 10-8 is still not even a lock given our struggles against good teams.

Syracuse won 19 games last year and went 9-9 in conference. They then lost a first round Big East tournament game to Villanova by 19. That game was a play in game for the NCAA tournament as Villanova then made it and Syracuse didn't Their RPI also fell out of the top 50 with that loss.

We currently are sitting with 16 wins making 3-1 and 1 conference win give us 20. We would have 10 conference wins (10-8), a big east tournament win and an RPI in the high 40s after those wins.

Very different cases. Of course this is highly hypothetical.

[ralph1950]

Is this what the program has become?

Going to see the Bearcats at home is better than watching them on TV. This season the Bearcats have zero chance of winning the NCAA tourney so being in it would be a mere exercise in futility. The team could win the NIT.

[shaunsimpson]

Going to see the Bearcats at home is better than watching them on TV. This season the Bearcats have zero chance of winning the NCAA tourney so being in it would be a mere exercise in futility. The team could win the NIT.

That is a very interesting perspective and one that people would argue all day long. I agree that this team would have a tough time doing anything in the tournament outside of getting past the first round (unless there is a huge upset and they would be playing a lower seed in round 2), but could do very well in the NIT. I am a NCAA junkie, but there is something to be said about getting the experience and development that the NIT could offer.

[LongTimer]

I love it when the people who hated those 2nd round NCAA losses are now theorizing that going to the NIT will actually be better than going to an NCAA. The mentality of this forum is a perfect example of why the program is where it is today.....still at least "one more year away" after 4 years of futility! I suspect with the rampant desire for mediocrity that exists in our supposed fans and officials, we are probably still even more than a year away.

[Billy Don]

In addition, due to the young makeup of the team and the fact that everyone returns next year (barring injury, release, .

I'd like to throw a comment in here about the hundreds of posts on UC being a young team. There are several teams just in the Big East alone that are younger than UC. Georgetown for example only has 1 senior that plays. Same for WV, Syracuse, Seton Hall and others. Add in the fact some of the other teams younger players were rated higher team wise than UC, I think the being young thing is way overplayed. It's one of those someone posts UC is young and the herd follows with a hundred posts saying the same thing. Nothing wrong saying UC is young, but you can say that about several teams.

[ralph1950]

I love it when the people who hated those 2nd round NCAA losses are now theorizing that going to the NIT will actually be better than going to an NCAA. The mentality of this forum is a perfect example of why the program is where it is today.....still at least "one more year away" after 4 years of futility! I suspect with the rampant desire for mediocrity that exists in our supposed fans and officials, we are probably still even more than a year away.

I think the reason you do not want to go to the NIT is because you do not want to spend the $29 a ticket for the home games. The team would have a chance of winning the NIT, no chance of winning the NCAA Tourney.

[GoCats247]

Going to see the Bearcats at home is better than watching them on TV. This season the Bearcats have zero chance of winning the NCAA tourney so being in it would be a mere exercise in futility. The team could win the NIT.

No, UC should always have the expectations of making the NCAA tournament. Any postseason experience is good for young guys on this team, but making the dance if the goal of this team in my opinion.

I don't know about you, but I'm a little sick of watching the NCAAs every year without UC.

To be honest, I'd rather see them get into the dance and make a small run and win 2 games vs. winning the NIT.

[LongTimer]

I think the reason you do not want to go to the NIT is because you do not want to spend the $29 a ticket for the home games. The team would have a chance of winning the NIT, no chance of winning the NCAA Tourney.

Damn, Ralph figured me out again. How does he keep doing it? He is the prediction guru of all time!!:eek::eek::eek::eek:

[Doss]

Strange set of values.

The folks who constantly bashed the FHOF coach for losing in the second round, now say "don't play the big guys because they will beat us in the first game, instead let us go play children that we can beat"

Better to have danced badly than do the Chicken Dance (NIT).

[shaunsimpson]

Strange set of values.

The folks who constantly bashed the FHOF coach for losing in the second round, now say "don't play the big guys because they will beat us in the first game, instead let us go play children that we can beat"

Better to have danced badly than do the Chicken Dance (NIT).

I can't imagine that there are more than 1 or 2 people that would really like the cats to make the NIT over the NCAA. there are a couple of advantages of the NIT, but the NCAA is far superior and desired.

[Mick's Da Man]

I believe the Cats have to win out to have a realistic shot at the NCAA tourney.

They haven't defeated a single team that is in the tourney - even if they win out, they will still have defeated no one in the top 25, because the very act of beating Syracuse will make sure they aren't ranked (they're probably out next poll anyway after losing to Villanova)

Losing to either WV or Syracuse nullifies any bounce that beating the other one would bring, and winning both and then losing to either South Florida or Seton Hall would be a tourney breaker.

That leaves winning out - and a win or 2 in the conference tourney for good measure.

I really think that's the only way they get in.

Am I wrong?

What's interesting about Syracuse is their Big East conference play resembles UC's. They lost to UConn by 14, to Villanova twice, got thumped by Pittsburgh by 18, lost to Louisville by 10, split with G'town, lost to Providence, and beat Notre Dame, Seton Hall, South Florida, Depaul, Rutgers and West Virginia. Very similar to UC. What they do have to hang their hats on is a win over Memphis (7th in rpi, 24-3), Kansas (10th in rpi, 22-5), and Florida (41st in rpi, 21-6).

If UC wins out, they are definitely in. If they win 3-4 and a couple in the Big East Tournament, I think they are in as well as they would finish 22-12. Their biggest hurdle is overcoming a mediocre rpi.

[shaunsimpson]

What's interesting about Syracuse is their Big East conference play resembles UC's. They lost to UConn by 14, to Villanova twice, got thumped by Pittsburgh by 18, lost to Louisville by 10, split with G'town, lost to Providence, and beat Notre Dame, Seton Hall, South Florida, Depaul, Rutgers and West Virginia. Very similar to UC. What they do have to hang their hats on is a win over Memphis (7th in rpi, 24-3), Kansas (10th in rpi, 22-5), and Florida (41st in rpi, 21-6).

If UC wins out, they are definitely in. If they win 3-4 and a couple in the Big East Tournament, I think they are in as well as they would finish 22-12. Their biggest hurdle is overcoming a mediocre rpi.

Syracuse just had such a good non-conference swing. Wins over Florida, Kansas and Memphis. The WVU win is also higher than anything we have (yet). But, you are right. They are playing at about the level we are right now so they are beatable. Their RPI is still 24, but they will probably fall out if they lose more than one more game. I am really pulling for them @ Marquette if we beat them.

[bearcatbret]

The goal is always to make the NCAA. However, you must support the team wherever it plays. Many teams who made the finals of the NIT ended up making a great run in the NCAA the following year. There is no shame in playing well in the NIT. You also need to remember that half of the teams (16) in the NIT will be better than the worse 16 teams in the NCAA. There will be some good competition. But I believe that if we go 3-1 down the stretch plus at least 1 in the BEast tourney then our chances are good to go to the NCAA. Just get behind this team.

[Mick's Da Man]

I'd like to throw a comment in here about the hundreds of posts on UC being a young team. There are several teams just in the Big East alone that are younger than UC. Georgetown for example only has 1 senior that plays. Same for WV, Syracuse, Seton Hall and others. Add in the fact some of the other teams younger players were rated higher team wise than UC, I think the being young thing is way overplayed. It's one of those someone posts UC is young and the herd follows with a hundred posts saying the same thing. Nothing wrong saying UC is young, but you can say that about several teams.

Comical. Greg Monroe and D'Juan Summers (jr.), of G'town, are both listed in most mock drafts as first rounders in this upcoming draft. UC has none. Jessie Sapp is a senior starter. Bad comparison.

Try again.

You got to be kidding to even bring up Syracuse. They start 4 juniors and 1 sophomore. Give me a break. Harris (13 ppg), Devendorf (16 ppg), Rautins (10 ppg), Onuaku (11 ppg) are all juniors. Jonny Flynn is a sophomore (17 ppg) and so is emerging Ricky Jackson (7 ppg). Ongeneat is a senior coming off the bench. Ridiculous comparison.

Try again.

West Virginia? Ebanks and Jones were top 50 recruits. I think Ebanks might have been top 10 or 20. Their 2 leading scorers are a junior, Da'Sean Butler (18 ppg), and a senior, Alex Ruoff (16 ppg). All of the young guys average less than 10 ppg, like UC's young guys.

Try again.

Seton Hall's top 5 scorers, Jeremy Hazell (sophomore)(23 ppg), Mitchell (14 ppg)(junior), Harvey (12 ppg)(junior), Garcia (9 ppg)(junior), and Gause (8 ppg)(senior). 1 senior, 3 juniors, and 1 sophomore.

Try again.

Let's see, UC has beaten G'town twice, a super-experienced Notre Dame team full of juniors and mostly seniors, beaten Seton Hall, and beat West Virginia last year. So, UC, as young as they are is ahead of most of the teams right now in the Big East standings or they are one ahead of UC like in the case of West Virginia.

Your argument is like the Titanic.

[LongTimer]

Comical. Greg Monroe and D'Juan Summers (jr.), of G'town, are both listed in most mock drafts as first rounders in this upcoming draft. UC has none. Jessie Sapp is a senior starter. Bad comparison.

Try again.

You got to be kidding to even bring up Syracuse. They start 4 juniors and 1 sophomore. Give me a break. Harris (13 ppg), Devendorf (16 ppg), Rautins (10 ppg), Onuaku (11 ppg) are all juniors. Jonny Flynn is a sophomore (17 ppg) and so is emerging Ricky Jackson (7 ppg). Ongeneat is a senior coming off the bench. Ridiculous comparison.

Try again.

West Virginia? Ebanks and Jones were top 50 recruits. I think Ebanks might have been top 10 or 20. Their 2 leading scorers are a junior, Da'Sean Butler (18 ppg), and a senior, Alex Ruoff (16 ppg). All of the young guys average less than 10 ppg, like UC's young guys.

Try again.

Seton Hall's top 5 scorers, Jeremy Hazell (sophomore)(23 ppg), Mitchell (14 ppg)(junior), Harvey (12 ppg)(junior), Garcia (9 ppg)(junior), and Gause (8 ppg)(senior). 1 senior, 3 juniors, and 1 sophomore.

Try again.

Let's see, UC has beaten G'town twice, a super-experienced Notre Dame team full of juniors and mostly seniors, beaten Seton Hall, and beat West Virginia last year. So, UC, as young as they are is ahead of most of the teams right now in the Big East standings or they are one ahead of UC like in the case of West Virginia.

Your argument is like the Titanic.

Can we please depart from negative and attacking posts like this? This thread was going nicely until you steped in with your negativity and sarcasm. This post is only inviting a return barrage that will lead to yet another thread getting closed. Please try to remain positive!

[levydl]

Under either scenario, UC will not have beaten any team that sits above it in the BEast standings. I don't think the committee will be impressed enough to invite a team to teh NCAA tournament that won only the games it should have, and lost all the games it sohuld have. This is an NIT resume, I am sad to concede.

Under the first scenario - UC winning it's next 4 games (which I don't think is very likely, though certainly not unheard of) - we'd be in 6th place in the league, as the poster showed. The teams ahead of UC would be Pitt, UConn, Marquette, UofL, and Villanova. Those teams are all top 10-12 teams in the country. You're telling me that if UC did this, that the committee wouldn't put them in because they didn't beat any of the top 10-12 teams in the country? That makes 0 sense. Look at some of the other teams we are competing against for an NCAA berth - they're resumes aren't as impressive as you seem to think.

[long suffering UC fan]

I'm not liking their chances to get an NCAA bid, but it still is possible.

They definately need to win 3/4 to have a shot, but winning 4 will not guarantee a bid, either.

On the upside, the conference tournament will give them an additional chance to make a case for a bid. I can't see them winning it, but they could potentially get the signature win that they are lacking. If they win 3 or 4 more in the regular season, and accomplish that in the conference tourney, perhaps it will be enough.

Also, being the 9th seed may be better vs. the 8th, as it might be better for them to avoid the bye, and get another win on their "resume", albeit not a great one.

[catsfan32]

^how many times longtimer are you going to mock other posters? Not only did MDM back up his opinion on facts, you came up with another factless response that proves your inability base yur opinions on FACTS! Anyway, as for the CATS, we win 3-1 and one in the BEAST tourney i think we are in, we win all 4 and 1 in the tourney we are a lock! No one on her excepts the NIT other than ralph(dont know why), but everyone realizes you just dont make a quantum leap in 3 years. The point of a rebuilding process it to rebuild, which mick has done steadily as he has been here. You may not believe that UC was and is in the rebuilding stage since mick's takeover, but you would be in the minority in the thinking.

[the_dude]

Under either scenario, UC will not have beaten any team that sits above it in the BEast standings. I don't think the committee will be impressed enough to invite a team to teh NCAA tournament that won only the games it should have, and lost all the games it sohuld have. This is an NIT resume, I am sad to concede.

So given that we are up against other bubble teams with similar records, they may have one or two "good wins" but that would be balanced out by one or two "bad losses". We're just a more consistent team. So you're basically saying bubble-team-A that beats a top25 team then losses to the #75 team has a better resume than bubble-team-B (UC) that loses to the top25 team and beats the #75? Consistency is a bad thing?

The teams we are up against have some "bad losses" to go along with their "good wins". You can't deny it because if they only had good-wins and no bad-losses, they wouldn't be bubble teams, they'd be locks.

[slimm]

This season the Bearcats have zero chance of winning the NCAA tourney so being in it would be a mere exercise in futility.

go tell that to the North Carolina State, Loyola & Holy Cross teams that had no chance. I guess all that jubilation I see when those small conference tourneys end and the directional school made the dance is not genuine. I'll take the tournament and a 1st round loss over not going every time, if those are the choices

[Bearcat Jeff]

As I stated before it is in the Cats hands to go to the tournament. They can still make it. They have to want it and take it.

[LongTimer]

^how many times longtimer are you going to mock other posters? Not only did MDM back up his opinion on facts, you came up with another factless response that proves your inability base yur opinions on FACTS! Anyway, as for the CATS, we win 3-1 and one in the BEAST tourney i think we are in, we win all 4 and 1 in the tourney we are a lock! No one on her excepts the NIT other than ralph(dont know why), but everyone realizes you just dont make a quantum leap in 3 years. The point of a rebuilding process it to rebuild, which mick has done steadily as he has been here. You may not believe that UC was and is in the rebuilding stage since mick's takeover, but you would be in the minority in the thinking.

Oh come on catsfan, you are late to the party. I was just giving MDM some of his own medicine that he gave me on another thread. It was all in jest, but he is highly ranked in the attack posting category, but you are right on his *** and ready to overtake him!

[LongTimer]

As I stated before it is in the Cats hands to go to the tournament. They can still make it. They have to want it and take it.

Damn BJ, now you are talking!! That's the way a Bearcat fan should be posting. We are not accepting anything less that NCAA! It's there, now go get it. Good post. Kudos to you!

[LongTimer]

go tell that to the North Carolina State, Loyola & Holy Cross teams that had no chance. I guess all that jubilation I see when those small conference tourneys end and the directional school made the dance is not genuine. I'll take the tournament and a 1st round loss over not going every time, if those are the choices

YES!!!! Slimm...you go buddy! This thread is starting to get good. Another great post!

[Bearcat Jeff]

Some of you think because I am realistic about what this staff is up against that I don't want to see the program win or have high expectations. I want them to win and go to the tournament. I think with a little greater intensity from the interior players it can be done. I also know that Mick has done a nice job getting them to this point against many obstacles. Why can't we acknowledge both?

[Thewhiteboy]

Cincinnati has too win out plus at least one bigeast tourney win. A lose to West Virgina will send Cincinnati too N.I.T.......

[LongTimer]

Cincinnati has too win out plus at least one bigeast tourney win. A lose to West Virgina will send Cincinnati too N.I.T.......

whiteboy....a loss to WVU will never happen! As many in here like to point out, the coach of WVU is weak! Mick is the master, has built the program from oblivion, will probably be nominated for the BB Hall of Fame this year or next, and is set to teach his former mentor a hard lesson.....the future of Big East "Power Basketball" now resides in Clifton, USA! This will be like watching a man coaching against a boy! I'll bet Huggs will be throwing his coat, turning beet red, cussing the refs, and more than likely getting ejected like Rick Pitino did a few years back against us. Can't wait to watch the "King" ascending to his rightful throne! It ougth to be incredibly entertaining!

[Jet23]

whiteboy....a loss to WVU will never happen! As many in here like to point out, the coach of WVU is weak! Mick is the master, has built the program from oblivion, will probably be nominated for the BB Hall of Fame this year or next, and is set to teach his former mentor a hard lesson.....the future of Big East "Power Basketball" now resides in Clifton, USA! This will be like watching a man coaching against a boy! I'll bet Huggs will be throwing his coat, turning beet red, cussing the refs, and more than likely getting ejected like Rick Pitino did a few years back against us. Can't wait to watch the "King" ascending to his rightful throne! It ougth to be incredibly entertaining!

I'm a HUGE Huggs fan. UC would not be in the Big East if not for Bob Huggins. With that being said, isn't it about time to move on? What exactly did Mick do to you, other than accept a job with another great coach? This kind of Cr*p is just played...

[beeman7467]

A four game sweep of our remaining games will not guarantee a trip to the NCAA tournament, in my opinion. There are too many unknowns at this point.

Anyone who thinks the NIT is a desirable situation over the NCAA is clearly not thinking straight. It is the next best option if we don't make the NCAA, but that's about it. You can babble on about the opportunity for the extra games and a trip to NY, but last I checked Mick wasn't lobbying for the Cats to get a bid to the NIT. When he's smacking the A-10 and SEC, he's trying to get into the minds of the NCAA selection committee, not the NIT selection committee.

[Doss]

Remember Thursday

Come Early
Wear Black
Be load for Huggs until the game starts

Then be load for the Cats.

[beeman7467]

whiteboy....a loss to WVU will never happen! As many in here like to point out, the coach of WVU is weak! Mick is the master, has built the program from oblivion, will probably be nominated for the BB Hall of Fame this year or next, and is set to teach his former mentor a hard lesson.....the future of Big East "Power Basketball" now resides in Clifton, USA! This will be like watching a man coaching against a boy! I'll bet Huggs will be throwing his coat, turning beet red, cussing the refs, and more than likely getting ejected like Rick Pitino did a few years back against us. Can't wait to watch the "King" ascending to his rightful throne! It ougth to be incredibly entertaining!

How the heck did this turn into another Huggins thread?

[Mick's Da Man]

Can we please depart from negative and attacking posts like this? This thread was going nicely until you steped in with your negativity and sarcasm. This post is only inviting a return barrage that will lead to yet another thread getting closed. Please try to remain positive!

Very positive response I made and I used facts, something that seems to be missing from your posts.

I used facts and defended the current UC team, which is something very positive that we should all be doing.

And of course, you follow it up with a negative attacking post directed at me, when all I did was use facts to refute a false statement by Billy Don.

Also.....it's stepped not steped. Just trying to positively help you out with your spelling skills.

[slimm]

Remember Thursday

Come Early
Wear Black
Be load for Huggs until the game starts

Then be load for the Cats.

" load " ???.....really?? ........................

[Mick's Da Man]

How the heck did this turn into another Huggins thread?

You really have to ask? Look at who posted it.

[Mick's Da Man]

A four game sweep of our remaining games will not guarantee a trip to the NCAA tournament, in my opinion. There are too many unknowns at this point.

Anyone who thinks the NIT is a desirable situation over the NCAA is clearly not thinking straight. It is the next best option if we don't make the NCAA, but that's about it. You can babble on about the opportunity for the extra games and a trip to NY, but last I checked Mick wasn't lobbying for the Cats to get a bid to the NIT. When he's smacking the A-10 and SEC, he's trying to get into the minds of the NCAA selection committee, not the NIT selection committee.

There is alot more to be gained from going far in the NIT than going one and done in the NCAA Tournament.

Louisville won the NIT a few years back and went to the Final Four of the NCAA Tournament the following year.
West Virginia won the NIT 2 years ago and went to the Elite Eight of the NCAA Tournament last year, I believe.

If you're not going to do anything in the NCAA Tournament, why not get more games under your belt in the NIT and possibly bring home something to build on for next year?

Makes so much sense, no wonder it escapes some people.

[slimm]

Remember Thursday

Come Early
Wear Black
Be load for Huggs until the game starts

Then be load for the Cats.

oohhhhhhh!! thanks for the PM's. got it now. be " loaded " for huggs.

[LongTimer]

Very positive response I made and I used facts, something that seems to be missing from your posts.

I used facts and defended the current UC team, which is something very positive that we should all be doing.

And of course, you follow it up with a negative attacking post directed at me, when all I did was use facts to refute a false statement by Billy Don.

Also.....it's stepped not steped. Just trying to positively help you out with your spelling skills.

Thank you MDM. That word cost me a shot at the national spelling bee back in the 70's, so it has always been a thorn in my side. Keep up the positive posts with solid facts! :eek:

[LongTimer]

There is alot more to be gained from going far in the NIT than going one and done in the NCAA Tournament.

Louisville won the NIT a few years back and went to the Final Four of the NCAA Tournament the following year.
West Virginia won the NIT 2 years ago and went to the Elite Eight of the NCAA Tournament last year, I believe.

If you're not going to do anything in the NCAA Tournament, why not get more games under your belt in the NIT and possibly bring home something to build on for next year?

Makes so much sense, no wonder it escapes some people.

How about the CBIT? We are guaranteed to win that one...right? Why take a chance on the tougher NIT? Baby steps MDM...baby steps!

[Mick's Da Man]

How about the CBIT? We are guaranteed to win that one...right? Why take a chance on the tougher NIT? Baby steps MDM...baby steps!

What? No facts in your response? What gives?

[slimm]

There is alot more to be gained from going far in the NIT than going one and done in the NCAA Tournament.

Louisville won the NIT a few years back and went to the Final Four of the NCAA Tournament the following year.
West Virginia won the NIT 2 years ago and went to the Elite Eight of the NCAA Tournament last year, I believe.

If you're not going to do anything in the NCAA Tournament, why not get more games under your belt in the NIT and possibly bring home something to build on for next year?

Makes so much sense, no wonder it escapes some people.

sorry. got to disagree. if you have a crystal ball & can guarantee a long run in the NIT and build on that, then great, but you dont. I'll take the dance with 1 & done or the possibility of doing to other teams what has been done to us too many times by upsetting someone than going to the NIT and possibly losing in round 1 there. there is zero common sense aspiring to go to the NIT and maybe winning it instead of competing in the NCAA tourney

[LongTimer]

How the heck did this turn into another Huggins thread?

Let me explain it to you beeman. Our next game is against WVU. WVU is coached by Bob Huggins. Bob Huggins used to be our coach. He now stands in the way of us making the NCAA! Get it? DUH!!!

[LongTimer]

sorry. got to disagree. if you have a crystal ball & can guarantee a long run in the NIT and build on that, then great, but you dont. I'll take the dance with 1 & done or the possibility of doing to other teams what has been done to us too many times by upsetting someone than going to the NIT and possibly losing in round 1 there. there is zero common sense aspiring to go to the NIT and maybe winning it instead of competing in the NCAA tourney

Slimm, you are on fire. Another good post and another shot to the person who claims common sense and facts are the basis for his posts! Glad this didn't come from me, but from a well respected current poster.

[Bp4thebest]

It's a weird scinario b/c normally you look at a big east team going 10-8 in con 20 wins overall as a lock. but if that is what happens your looking at one win against an rpi top 25 in 10 trys. usually a team that goes 10-8 in this con has a couple of great wins and a couple of bad losses and the good wins out do the bad losses. We have not had any bad wins but one good win if we go 20-11 does not sit well. finish 3-1 and 1-1 in big east tourney to finish 21-12 puts us right on the bubble prob to get snubbed. Which is redic b/c if we finish that well that's a top 8 finish.

[Mick's Da Man]

sorry. got to disagree. if you have a crystal ball & can guarantee a long run in the NIT and build on that, then great, but you dont. I'll take the dance with 1 & done or the possibility of doing to other teams what has been done to us too many times by upsetting someone than going to the NIT and possibly losing in round 1 there. there is zero common sense aspiring to go to the NIT and maybe winning it instead of competing in the NCAA tourney

UC isn't good enough this year to win the NCAA National Championship. They are good enough to win the NIT championship though. Which one serves this particularly young, improving, and growing team, better?

The NIT would.

I still want to make the NCAA Tournament if they can just because I think middle of the pack Big East teams are better than most of the non-big six conference winners. Syracuse is middle of the pack and beat Memphis, Kansas, and Florida earlier this year, so never say never.

Still, if UC made the NCAA Tournament, and I had to put money on it, I would say first round loss, mainly because of their seeding. If they were a 7 playing a 10 or 8 playing a 9 or vice versa, then you never know. But being a 12 playing a 5..........might as well forget about it.

[CincyBearcat95]

Can we please depart from negative and attacking posts like this? This thread was going nicely until you steped in with your negativity and sarcasm. This post is only inviting a return barrage that will lead to yet another thread getting closed. Please try to remain positive!

Actually, the post he was responding to was more negative and fully just opinion. I have to say that someone refuting with facts is a breath of fresh air.

[slimm]

UC isn't good enough this year to win the NCAA National Championship. They are good enough to win the NIT championship though. Which one serves this particularly young, improving, and growing team, better?

The NIT would.

I still want to make the NCAA Tournament if they can just because I think middle of the pack Big East teams are better than most of the non-big six conference winners. Syracuse is middle of the pack and beat Memphis, Kansas, and Florida earlier this year, so never say never.

Still, if UC made the NCAA Tournament, and I had to put money on it, I would say first round loss, mainly because of their seeding. If they were a 7 playing a 10 or 8 playing a 9 or vice versa, then you never know. But being a 12 playing a 5..........might as well forget about it.

i agree with your premise, but with no guaranteed outcome, i would just rather take my chances it the NCAA tourney. sure , the NIT might be a better fit but no one chooses to go to the NIT. I think overall the ncaa offers better outcomes. long runs in the either help our cause. quick outs and your having to explain what happened in the NIT, not the NCAA. we are on the same page, i guess I just want the tNCAA tournament even with no chance to win ( maybe )

[Mick's Da Man]

It's a weird scinario b/c normally you look at a big east team going 10-8 in con 20 wins overall as a lock. but if that is what happens your looking at one win against an rpi top 25 in 10 trys. usually a team that goes 10-8 in this con has a couple of great wins and a couple of bad losses and the good wins out do the bad losses. We have not had any bad wins but one good win if we go 20-11 does not sit well. finish 3-1 and 1-1 in big east tourney to finish 21-12 puts us right on the bubble prob to get snubbed. Which is redic b/c if we finish that well that's a top 8 finish.

What amazes me is that the selection committee doesn't have the brains to realize the rpi of the teams UC has lost to........Florida State (#17), Xavier (#14), Memphis (#7), Marquette (21), Providence twice (#76), UConn (#6), Villanova (#9), Pitt (#1), and Louisville (#12).

That's 4 top 10 rpi teams, 8 losses to top 21 rpi teams, and 2 mediocre losses to #76 Providence.

Yet to be played are Syracuse (#24) and West Virginia (#13).

Xavier, who's SOS was top 10 at one time is all the way down to an SOS of 43. UC's has increased to 20. 20th hardest schedule in the country!

Xavier has lost 3 of their last 5 to Duquesne (rpi #96), Dayton (29), and Charlotte (166). Duquesne and Charlotte are both worse teams than Providence.

And let's be honest, the current February Xavier team wouldn't beat February's Memphis (now), Florida State or any of the teams UC lost to. No way in he-double L they beat any of the teams UC has lost to. Xavier may have a good team, but they would fare no better than UC in the Big East.

[LongTimer]

No recruit wants to sign with a program that plays in the NIT. Yes, extra games and practices, experience winning in a tournament, etc. could help the psyche of a young team. However, what if we lose quickly in the NIT? How is our psyche then? With our lousy attendance, we probably won't get a home game and will be playing on the road and we haven't done too well on the road. This is a risky solution to improving our short term performance. Getting better recruits is a longer term fix. They want national tv and NCAA's. The longer we stay out of the NCAA, the lesser our program becomes in stature and the harder it is to attract good recruits.

Once again, an example of how our fans are impacting our future in a negative way! We need a sellout on Thursday!

[jeffto]

What amazes me is that the selection committee doesn't have the brains to realize the rpi of the teams UC has lost to........Florida State (#17), Xavier (#14), Memphis (#7), Marquette (21), Providence twice (#76), UConn (#6), Villanova (#9), Pitt (#1), and Louisville (#12). Keep in mind the selection committee hasn't done anything yet. Saying they don't have brains is premature. Save your comment for a couple of weeks. :)

[Matt1982]

To put this into REAL perspective, not only do we need to win out, we likely need to win 1 or 2 games in the BE tourney to even consider us a safe bet for the NCAA... we have a nice record, but it's padded with wins against bad teams and losses against good teams... nothing in between. There is NOTHING about the UC resume that screams out "pick UC over another bubble team." The fact of the matter is, we're NIT bound unless we win 21 games AT LEAST.

[jeffto]

No recruit wants to sign with a program that plays in the NIT. What an idiotic comment. An NIT appearance is often a stepping stone to big time NCAA success. See Florida and even your beloved Huggins in 1990, 1991. Recruits aren't as dumb as some of the posters on this forum.

[jeffto]

To put this into REAL perspective, not only do we need to win out, we likely need to win 1 or 2 games in the BE tourney to even consider us a safe bet for the NCAA... we have a nice record, but it's padded with wins against bad teams and losses against good teams... nothing in between. There is NOTHING about the UC resume that screams out "pick UC over another bubble team." The fact of the matter is, we're NIT bound unless we win 21 games AT LEAST.Win 4/4, we're probably in barring an embarrassing performance in the conference tourney.

Win 3/4, we'll be in with a good performance in the conference tourney.

Win 2/4 (or less) we'll need to win the conference tourney to make it.

Simple as that.

[bearcatmark]

Win 4/4, we're probably in barring an embarrassing performance in the conference tourney.

Win 3/4, we'll be in with a good performance in the conference tourney.

Win 2/4 (or less) we'll need to win the conference tourney to make it.

Simple as that.

Agree with everything except the last part...If we win 2 of 4 i think we'll need to make the semi's to make it..we'll probably be a 9 seed at that point... So hypothetically we would have to beat a likely tournament team or bubble team in round 1, then beat the number 1 seed in the Big East in the quarterfinals.. (that would also be 3 big east tourney wins)...i think the committee would put a lot of stock in that and it would get us in, but i think that's the hardest of the three strategis. lets win the next two and everything will take care of itself.

[Matt1982]

jeffto... I agree to an extent... but I still don't think winning the last 4 gets us in. Not to mention I don't think we have much of a chance against a Syracuse team that'll be playing for their NCAA lives on their court. It can be done still, it's still very much in the hands of the team to get to the NCAA, the odds are just stacked against them at this point.

[LongTimer]

What an idiotic comment. An NIT appearance is often a stepping stone to big time NCAA success. See Florida and even your beloved Huggins in 1990, 1991. Recruits aren't as dumb as some of the posters on this forum.

lol....I knew you weren't ignoring me. As usual, guys like you need to pick the brain of the master to be able to dream up something to post. Yep, you got me. I have to change my mind and start rooting for the NIT!!! Guess I'll have to root for Huggs this Thursday. Wonder if Mick has got the word yet? The fans expect the NIT and nothing more! Wow, I sure hope our recruits don't read this forum!!!:eek::eek::eek:

[OhioFootball]

It's actually quite simple. Look at the wins for UC and you won't see one above average win. You don't get into the NCAA tournament beating Rutgers, St Johns, Georgetown (this year) and a TON of crappy OOC teams.

UC really has zero above average wins. That's not going to cut it.

[jeffto]

jeffto... I agree to an extent... but I still don't think winning the last 4 gets us in. Not to mention I don't think we have much of a chance against a Syracuse team that'll be playing for their NCAA lives on their court. It can be done still, it's still very much in the hands of the team to get to the NCAA, the odds are just stacked against them at this point.I think if we win the last 4 it would be very hard for the committee to keep us out. 21 wins and 11-7 in the toughest conference ever assembled by man. Including wins over two high RPI teams in the last 4 regular season games.

Ken Pomeroy is highly respected and he has WVU as his #6 ranked team. That would be a big win (and very doable). Syracuse is certainly not invincible at home (Cleveland State!).

Now, if we win the last 4 and then get blown out in the conference tourney, I'd say our chances go down a lot.

Finally, I'd say our chances of winning the last 4 are slim, so the conference tourney will likely be the only opportunity to play our way in.

[jeffto]

The fans expect the NIT and nothing more! Wow, I sure hope our recruits don't read this forum!!!:eek::eek::eek:Knowledgeable fans don't "expect" or "settle" for anything. They have realistic expectations and understand the bigger, long-term picture rather than just what some old farts sitting around the "entitlement" section of the arena think.

[London 'Cat]

Under the first scenario - UC winning it's next 4 games (which I don't think is very likely, though certainly not unheard of) - we'd be in 6th place in the league, as the poster showed. The teams ahead of UC would be Pitt, UConn, Marquette, UofL, and Villanova. Those teams are all top 10-12 teams in the country. You're telling me that if UC did this, that the committee wouldn't put them in because they didn't beat any of the top 10-12 teams in the country? That makes 0 sense. Look at some of the other teams we are competing against for an NCAA berth - they're resumes aren't as impressive as you seem to think.

Yes, I do think the committee will exclude them. They also lost to Xavier, Memphis, Flordia State. The point is that the 'Cats have not beaten any team currently ranked in the top 25. Further, all of their conference wins will have come against teams behind them in the standings. The team lacks enough quality wins to earn a bid, IMO.

[jeffto]

Yes, I do think the committee will exclude them. They also lost to Xavier, Memphis, Flordia State. The point is that the 'Cats have not beaten any team currently ranked in the top 25. Further, all of their conference wins will have come against teams behind them in the standings. The team lacks enough quality wins to earn a bid, IMO.I think most (if not all) of the posters are basing making the tourney on winning one or both of our last two "big" games. That scenario would satisfy the need to have top 25 (RPI) wins.

If the season ended today we would not make the tourney, but the season doesn't end today.

[LongTimer]

Knowledgeable fans don't "expect" or "settle" for anything. They have realistic expectations and understand the bigger, long-term picture rather than just what some old farts sitting around the "entitlement" section of the arena think.

lol....please ignore me again. I would like to get back to arguing with the challenging and informed posters!

[GoCats247]

There is alot more to be gained from going far in the NIT than going one and done in the NCAA Tournament.

Louisville won the NIT a few years back and went to the Final Four of the NCAA Tournament the following year.
West Virginia won the NIT 2 years ago and went to the Elite Eight of the NCAA Tournament last year, I believe.

If you're not going to do anything in the NCAA Tournament, why not get more games under your belt in the NIT and possibly bring home something to build on for next year?

Makes so much sense, no wonder it escapes some people.

An NCAA tournament bid is a more successful season for the players, coaches and program than a run in the NIT.

[BearcatAlum1]

Yes, I do think the committee will exclude them. The team lacks enough quality wins to earn a bid, IMO.

Here is my take, and it's relatively simple:


If we have to debate and discuss whether or not we're "in" the Tournament, then we won't get in. We've got to eliminate all doubt.



BearcatAlum1

[GoCats247]

jeffto... I agree to an extent... but I still don't think winning the last 4 gets us in. Not to mention I don't think we have much of a chance against a Syracuse team that'll be playing for their NCAA lives on their court. It can be done still, it's still very much in the hands of the team to get to the NCAA, the odds are just stacked against them at this point.

I agree, us getting no wins vs. the top 25 RPI teams and losing each of those games by 10+ points virtually puts us out. No signature wins, they didn't compete with the best teams they played.

My hopes for the Big Dance left on Saturday.

[jeffto]

lol....please ignore me again. I would like to get back to arguing with the challenging and informed posters!"Arguing" requires factual and informed "arguments". You don't "argue" with anyone on here because all you do is throw out lame comments about ticket prices, a few empty seats and how much you love BH.

[jeffto]

I agree, us getting no wins vs. the top 25 RPI teams and losing each of those games by 10+ points virtually puts us out. No signature wins, they didn't compete with the best teams they played.

My hopes for the Big Dance left on Saturday.So? Will your tune change if we beat a top 25 RPI team on Thursday? Flip-Flop?

[LongTimer]

"Arguing" requires factual and informed "arguments". You don't "argue" with anyone on here because all you do is throw out lame comments about ticket prices, a few empty seats and how much you love BH.

Good to see that you haven't ignored me at all. Keep tuning in. Someday, you too can be a true Longtimer too instead of a wannabe looking in from afar!!

[ralph1950]

So? Will your tune change if we beat a top 25 RPI team on Thursday? Flip-Flop?

Beating TOP 20 RPI team Syracuse at Syracuse is much more important than winning at home on Thursday. Go 2-2 with a win at Syracuse and 1-1 in the Big East tourney and UC gets an at large bid. Go 3-1 with at loss at Syracuse and 2-1 in the Big East Tourney and it will be NIT. Beating Syracuse at Syracuse is the key to UC getting a NCAA Tourney at large bid.

[Pie Hole]

There is alot more to be gained from going far in the NIT than going one and done in the NCAA Tournament.

Louisville won the NIT a few years back and went to the Final Four of the NCAA Tournament the following year.
West Virginia won the NIT 2 years ago and went to the Elite Eight of the NCAA Tournament last year, I believe.

If you're not going to do anything in the NCAA Tournament, why not get more games under your belt in the NIT and possibly bring home something to build on for next year?

Makes so much sense, no wonder it escapes some people.

True, Louisville and W.Virginia did well the following year after winning the NIT. But they are the exception, not the rule. If I remember right, Ohio State won the NIT last year. They'll be lucky (and I mean very lucky) to make the NCAA's this year. Kind of makes you wonder who's making sense here.

[jeffto]

Good to see that you haven't ignored me at all. Keep tuning in. Someday, you too can be a true Longtimer too instead of a wannabe looking in from afar!!I'd commit suicide before I'd turn into a whining old fool. :(

[LongTimer]

True, Louisville and W.Virginia did well the following year after winning the NIT. But they are the exception, not the rule. If I remember right, Ohio State won the NIT last year. They'll be lucky (and I mean very lucky) to make the NCAA's this year. Kind of makes you wonder who's making sense here.

Doesn't make me wonder Pie Hole. Anyone arguing for the NIT is waaaaaaaay out there in La-La Land! But, I don't want to be accused of attacking, so those La-La Land posters are fine people and great Bearcat fans too. They have just lost their way a little bit. It's people like you and me who need to round them up and bring 'em back in line, nuture and coddle them some, and then release them back to the general public, hopefully more informed! That's the reason I post here. I treat it as community service...my way of giving back! :D

[jeffto]

Beating TOP 20 RPI team Syracuse at Syracuse is much more important than winning at home on Thursday. Go 2-2 with a win at Syracuse and 1-1 in the Big East tourney and UC gets an at large bid. Go 3-1 with at loss at Syracuse and 2-1 in the Big East Tourney and it will be NIT. Beating Syracuse at Syracuse is the key to UC getting a NCAA Tourney at large bid.WVU is #13 RPI, Syracuse #24. (Yahoo Sports, Palm). I'd say home versus away balances out based on the difference in rankings. Either WVU or Syracuse as part of a 3-1 is about the same - no at-large w/o some good conference tourney wins.

[behrlezt]

If we beat WVU and Seton Hall then USF...we will be in!!! A win in the tourney wouldn't hurt either...

[long suffering UC fan]

[QUOTE=London 'Cat;63682playing in the NIT may be better for the team going forward. Playing one NCAA game vs. 2-3 or more NIT games would be better for the team - more practices, more games, experiencing a legitimate post-season tournament. All of these will help the team next year.[/QUOTE]

IMO getting your name called on selection sunday is a boon to recruiting, relative to winning the NIT, even if you get toasted in the 1st round. Young HS basketball players follow the NCAA tournament, in general, and simply having the name of the college in the bracket helps to give the perception that it is a legitimate program, (unless you are the 16th seed that wins the IVY league auto bid or something similar). The exposure in the 1st round game is enormously beneficial to programs, and completely eclipses even 4-5 NIT games, from that perspective. Mick can better sell an "on-the-fence" recruit if he can point to a recent NCAA appearance vs. winning a few NIT games.

Granted, any experience for a younger team is beneficial, and making a run in the NIT is valuable, comparing it to making neither tournament. A couple extra practices, doesn't however, IMO, outwheigh the recruiting/prestige benefits of an NCAA appearance. Heck, look how excited bubble teams get when selected.

Specific to this program, if they pull out a bid this year, think about how much the "experts" will be going on and on and on about how much Mick has done with the program, and how "up & coming" the program is, blah blah. I think the recruiting "boost" from an NCAA appearance would be even bigger in our case.

Maybe I'm just taking the bait, and you just think that they have little chance at a bid, and are trying to post the silver lining of the alternative, and garner support for our eventual attempt at an NIT run, which isn't necessarily bad.

[Mick's Da Man]

Doesn't make me wonder Pie Hole. Anyone arguing for the NIT is waaaaaaaay out there in La-La Land! But, I don't want to be accused of attacking, so those La-La Land posters are fine people and great Bearcat fans too. They have just lost their way a little bit. It's people like you and me who need to round them up and bring 'em back in line, nuture and coddle them some, and then release them back to the general public, hopefully more informed! That's the reason I post here. I treat it as community service...my way of giving back! :D

Giving back for you is like an exploding toilet. :rolleyes:

[London 'Cat]

If we have to debate and discuss whether or not we're "in" the Tournament, then we won't get in. We've got to eliminate all doubt.

BearcatAlum1

Exactly correct. I've been saying this for the last two weeks or so. UC needs to leave no doubt in the committee's collective mind. Thus far, they have not done so, IMO. It's like in a criminal trial - proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

[ralph1950]

Exactly correct. I've been saying this for the last two weeks or so. UC needs to leave no doubt in the committee's collective mind. Thus far, they have not done so, IMO. It's like in a criminal trial - proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

All UC has to do is beat Syracuse, none of the other games will count for much. Beat Syracuse "in" lose to Syracuse "out", it really is that simple.

[London 'Cat]

An NCAA tournament bid is a more successful season for the players, coaches and program than a run in the NIT.

It depends on the team. For example, the team that last made the NIT with Hicks, White, Muhammad, etc., there were basically no returning players. Therefore, the benefit to the team going forward is lost. However, this year's team will return all of its players except for Miller and maybe Williams, barring any unforeseen transfers, injuries, etc. Assuming the team wins at least two games in the NIT and assuming it will lose in the first round of the NCAA, there is some benefit to the team going forward. I know these assumptions may be flawed, but I think they are reasonable based on the season thus far.

[beeman7467]

There is alot more to be gained from going far in the NIT than going one and done in the NCAA Tournament.

Louisville won the NIT a few years back and went to the Final Four of the NCAA Tournament the following year.
West Virginia won the NIT 2 years ago and went to the Elite Eight of the NCAA Tournament last year, I believe.

If you're not going to do anything in the NCAA Tournament, why not get more games under your belt in the NIT and possibly bring home something to build on for next year?

Makes so much sense, no wonder it escapes some people.

I understand the argument. I just don't agree with it. I'm also amazed that people think they'll "get a few more" games under our belt if we play in the NIT. I doubt any opponent in the first round is simply going to roll over and give up. Hardly. And those non sell out crowds aren't going to guarantee a home game. One and done is a definite possibility in the NIT. Sorry, but I'll take the NCAA.

[London 'Cat]

True, Louisville and W.Virginia did well the following year after winning the NIT. But they are the exception, not the rule. If I remember right, Ohio State won the NIT last year. They'll be lucky (and I mean very lucky) to make the NCAA's this year. Kind of makes you wonder who's making sense here.

They also lost three very key players from that team, at least - Koufos, Butler, Hunter. There may have been others that I don't recall. Because UC will return all of its players, barring some unforeseen occurrences, they stand to benefit from the NIT experience heading into next year.

Don't get me wrong - I'd rather UC makes the NCAA tournament. My point is that all is not lost by playing in the NIT this year, given the unique circumstances of this year's team.

[slimm]

good lord, if one more person says "its really that simple"....

[BasketBySteveLogan]

Finishing above .500 in the BIG EAST....

That should get us really close, and a solid win in the tourney could seal it

[Lobot]

Some of you , and you know who you are, need a timeout in the corner. Stop arguing with each other and baiting one another and have a constructive discussion.

[Mick's Da Man]

It's really that simple.

What's the over/under on this thread being closed?

Quick trigger mods are looming!!!! ;)

[levydl]

Exactly correct. I've been saying this for the last two weeks or so. UC needs to leave no doubt in the committee's collective mind. Thus far, they have not done so, IMO. It's like in a criminal trial - proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

No, it's not like a criminal trial. There will be a handfull of teams - probably about 6 or 7 - that legitimately could be in or out. 2 or 3 of those teams will get in and the rest will have a gripe. UC could very well be one of them, but regardless, a few teams will get in even though it will be debatable.

Or do you mean that UC will have to do more than others because you the NCAA hates us or because XU and OSU is represented on the selection committee, or something like that?

[levydl]

It depends on the team. For example, the team that last made the NIT with Hicks, White, Muhammad, etc., there were basically no returning players. Therefore, the benefit to the team going forward is lost. However, this year's team will return all of its players except for Miller and maybe Williams, barring any unforeseen transfers, injuries, etc. Assuming the team wins at least two games in the NIT and assuming it will lose in the first round of the NCAA, there is some benefit to the team going forward. I know these assumptions may be flawed, but I think they are reasonable based on the season thus far.

Then we make the NCAAs next year and the guys never will have experienced the tourney - I can already hear the excuses. There's no better learning experience than actually playing in the NCAA tourney.

Sure, if we miss the NCAA, it'll be nice to go to the NIT (and if you told me after Cash went down that we'd be a top seed in the NIT, I probably would have been pretty pleased). But it just seems self evident to me that you're infinitely better off making the dance than making the NIT, no matter what you do in either. Preparing for and playing in a single NCAA game seems much more valuable than doing the same for 3 NIT games.

[LongTimer]

This has to be the only program in the nation where people are actually arguing to go to the NIT instead of the NCAA. If you asked the players, coach, water boy, video coordinator (wait, he's the coach...my bad), wives, ball boys, tutors, shrinks, etc., not one would want the NIT, and we actually have fans wanting an NIT bid. Once again, when you have this type of argument going on, does anything better illustrate the state of Bearcat Basketball? Pretty sad. :(

[Mick's Da Man]

I said in another thread, I prefer going to the NCAA Tournament but can see the benefit, for this young team, of going to the NIT. UC is not going to win the national championship this year, nor will they probably go far in the Big Dance, much less win their first game if they get in. It's still an honor to be chosen.

But, they probably could win the NIT which would add another 4 or so games to their season schedule, giving them that much more time to work together as a team. And as I've pointed out, many teams have won the NIT or gone far in it, and then gone far in the NCAA Tournament the next year (Louisville won the NIT, and went to the Final Four of the Big Dance the following year; West Virginia won the NIT and went to the Elite Eight.......and others).

[Bearcat Jeff]

It is crazy to suggest the Bearcats are better off to go to the NIT. Big time college basketball is a business and to bring in the type of guys Mick needs to take the next step they need to say, "We are already back to the NCAA Tournament." The ramifications spread far past playing an extra game or two. It is shortsighted to want to go to the NIT. Cincinnati needs to be able to say they are back!! It only happens when you Dance my friends!

[LongTimer]

We've already proven that we can play with and compete well against Top 10 teams. The games will be on a neutral court. There is no guarantee that we will lose in the first round. If we are a 12 seed, we'll play against teams ranked 17 to 20. Are you really scared to play any of those teams....Gonzaga, LSU, Xavier, and Illinois? I'll take any one of those four and take my chances in the NCAA any day, any time, over going to another "Losers" tournament! Also, if we win a 1st round game, we play a Wake Forest, Arizona St., Kansas, or Purdue to get to the sweet 16. Again, not a big stretch to think we can knock any of those teams off too.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I'm proud of the Bearcats this season and won't considfer it a failure if they don't make it but Longtimer is right on this one. Who doesn't believe that the Cats would love to play Xavier now as opposed to December? I have watched alot of Big 10 basketball and believe U.C. could beat most of those teams. They may match up against an SEC team. Would you like our chances there? How about a mid level ACC team? Win the first one and with the right second round match up, and that's what the tournament comes down to, and you "may" find yourself in the sweet 16. It could happen just as likely as a NIT championship.

[CincyBeerCo]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3928104&name=katz_andy

Only thru Sat nights games, but their mock selection has ND and GTown in and us OUT. Need some wins....

[ralph1950]

This has to be the only program in the nation where people are actually arguing to go to the NIT instead of the NCAA. If you asked the players, coach, water boy, video coordinator (wait, he's the coach...my bad), wives, ball boys, tutors, shrinks, etc., not one would want the NIT, and we actually have fans wanting an NIT bid. Once again, when you have this type of argument going on, does anything better illustrate the state of Bearcat Basketball? Pretty sad. :(

After going no where in 07 and the CBI in 08 the NIT in 09 is the natural progression of rebuilding, improvement every year. Besides, going to games at 5/3rd is wonderful.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Why not skip a step? C'mon you guys can't seriously believe it benefits the program more to go to the NIT rather than the NCAA can you? I wouldn't be upset if this team went to the NIT. I predicted that but would far and away rather them go to the NCAA. It signals they are major players again.

[bearcatmark]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3928104&name=katz_andy

Only thru Sat nights games, but their mock selection has ND and GTown in and us OUT. Need some wins....

In all fairness that was a Mock based on simulated conference tournaments as well. Georgetown won 5 games in 5 days to win the Big East tournament in that simulation. UC is still right there.

[London 'Cat]

No, it's not like a criminal trial. There will be a handfull of teams - probably about 6 or 7 - that legitimately could be in or out. 2 or 3 of those teams will get in and the rest will have a gripe. UC could very well be one of them, but regardless, a few teams will get in even though it will be debatable.

Or do you mean that UC will have to do more than others because you the NCAA hates us or because XU and OSU is represented on the selection committee, or something like that?

UC has not beaten any temas that will be playing in the NCAA tournament. In the most recent rankings, UC has lost to all 8 ranked teams it has played - Pitt, UConn, Memphis, UL, Marquette, Villanova, Xavier and Florida State. Right now, there is no way the committee gives them an at-large bid. Thus, they need to convince the committee that they are worthy of a bid and leave no question in the committee's mind about it.

[London 'Cat]

Then we make the NCAAs next year and the guys never will have experienced the tourney - I can already hear the excuses. There's no better learning experience than actually playing in the NCAA tourney.

Sure, if we miss the NCAA, it'll be nice to go to the NIT (and if you told me after Cash went down that we'd be a top seed in the NIT, I probably would have been pretty pleased). But it just seems self evident to me that you're infinitely better off making the dance than making the NIT, no matter what you do in either. Preparing for and playing in a single NCAA game seems much more valuable than doing the same for 3 NIT games.

I am not arguing there is no benefit to making the NCAA. I am arguing that there is a benefit to playing in the NIT. And, that benefit may help the 'Cats if they are fortunate enough to make the NCAA next year. Again, I'd rather they make the NCAA, but some on here are saying they'd rather stay home than play in the NIT or that they will not watch the 'Cats in the NIT. THat is just silly, IMO. The 'Cats stand to gain some valuable experience by playing in the NIT.

[levydl]

We've already proven that we can play with and compete well against Top 10 teams. The games will be on a neutral court. There is no guarantee that we will lose in the first round. If we are a 12 seed, we'll play against teams ranked 17 to 20. Are you really scared to play any of those teams....Gonzaga, LSU, Xavier, and Illinois? I'll take any one of those four and take my chances in the NCAA any day, any time, over going to another "Losers" tournament! Also, if we win a 1st round game, we play a Wake Forest, Arizona St., Kansas, or Purdue to get to the sweet 16. Again, not a big stretch to think we can knock any of those teams off too.

I completely agree. If we can make it into the tournament, we'll be one of those double digit seeds that no one wants to play.

The argument isn't whether the NIT can be beneficial - I think everyone agrees that it's better than nothing (or the CBI). But to say that it may be better in the long run to make the NIT rather than the NCAA is crazy.

[London 'Cat]

This has to be the only program in the nation where people are actually arguing to go to the NIT instead of the NCAA. If you asked the players, coach, water boy, video coordinator (wait, he's the coach...my bad), wives, ball boys, tutors, shrinks, etc., not one would want the NIT, and we actually have fans wanting an NIT bid. Once again, when you have this type of argument going on, does anything better illustrate the state of Bearcat Basketball? Pretty sad. :(

I, for one, am not asserting I'd prefer for UC to go to the NIT. I'd definitely prefer an NCAA bid. But, to fail to recognize the benefit of playing in the NIT is equally foolish. This team, given its composition, experience level (or lack of it) and players returning next year will derive a benefit from the NIT that will help them next year. As will playing in the NCAA. I think some are arguing that the benefit to the team is greater in the NIT, which may be correct. It may also be correct that playing in the NCAA would be of greater benefit for next year if UC reaches the NCAA then.

[levydl]

I am not arguing there is no benefit to making the NCAA. I am arguing that there is a benefit to playing in the NIT. And, that benefit may help the 'Cats if they are fortunate enough to make the NCAA next year. Again, I'd rather they make the NCAA, but some on here are saying they'd rather stay home than play in the NIT or that they will not watch the 'Cats in the NIT. THat is just silly, IMO. The 'Cats stand to gain some valuable experience by playing in the NIT.

When did people say that? I haven't seen that - perhaps I missed it. I have read where posters wrote that going to the NIT could be more beneficial in the long run than going to the NCAA tourney. That comment is what people are saying is ridiculous.

[levydl]

In addition, due to the young makeup of the team and the fact that everyone returns next year (barring injury, release, transfer or other unforeseen circumstances), playing in the NIT may be better for the team going forward. Playing one NCAA game vs. 2-3 or more NIT games would be better for the team - more practices, more games, experiencing a legitimate post-season tournament. All of these will help the team next year.

LondonCat, you're changing your tune. See your comment above. That rationale is what people are saying is crazy. No one has said that playing in the NIT is absolutely worthless in itself, it's just not comparable to playing in the NCAA - even if you win the NIT vs. lose in the first round of the tourney.

[London 'Cat]

When did people say that? I haven't seen that - perhaps I missed it. I have read where posters wrote that going to the NIT could be more beneficial in the long run than going to the NCAA tourney. That comment is what people are saying is ridiculous.

Ridiculous, in your opinion. :) My point is that it could benefit the team more NEXT year than playing in the NCAA. Of course, playing in the NCAA this year could also benefit the team next year. I don't think it's ridiculous as to next season only as opposed to long term.

[London 'Cat]

LondonCat, you're changing your tune. See your comment above. That rationale is what people are saying is crazy. No one has said that playing in the NIT is absolutely worthless in itself, it's just not comparable to playing in the NCAA - even if you win the NIT vs. lose in the first round of the tourney.

Note the use of the word MAY in my post. And I think playing more than one games in a post-season envrionment would benefit the team more than playing in one game. Again, I'd rather they make the NCAA but recognize a significant benefit to playing in the NIT. Further, I limit my comments to the benefit for next year, not long term.

[slimm]

UC has not beaten any temas that will be playing in the NCAA tournament. In the most recent rankings, UC has lost to all 8 ranked teams it has played - Pitt, UConn, Memphis, UL, Marquette, Villanova, Xavier and Florida State. Right now, there is no way the committee gives them an at-large bid. Thus, they need to convince the committee that they are worthy of a bid and leave no question in the committee's mind about it.

even though it means absolutely nothing, current bracketology from ESPN has UNLV #8,Georgetown #9 and ND #10 seeds. pretty sure we beat them. on a side note, its interesting that ND is not only a 10 seed but also first 4 out after us. must be gold team & blue team

[bearcatmark]

even though it means absolutely nothing, current bracketology from ESPN has UNLV #8,Georgetown #9 and ND #10 seeds. pretty sure we beat them. on a side note, its interesting that ND is not only a 10 seed but also first 4 out after us. must be gold team & blue team

Again...let me stress that is not the actually bracketology but a Mock selection process that had simulated conference tournaments included. In their simulated Big East tournament Georgetown won 5 straight games in 5 days to win the Big East. UNLV won the Mountain West tournament. Who knows what ND did in the simulated Big East. This was more a process oriented thing than anyhting else...giving a feel for how teams are selected...it is not an accurate reflection of where teams currently stand.

[LongTimer]

After going no where in 07 and the CBI in 08 the NIT in 09 is the natural progression of rebuilding, improvement every year. Besides, going to games at 5/3rd is wonderful.

Ralph, I have paid my money to attend every one of those past NIT games, but to say it was wonderful is BS. It was only wonderful in Huggs 1st 2 years because we had been losing for a decade. The bar is much higher now. The expectations are much higher now. Yes, we have been losing for the last couple years, but we know where we belong, and it is not the NIT and I will not accept that mentality ever. If that's where we end up, I'll buy my tickets as usual and support the team. It won't be wonderful or necessarily even fun, but if we make it to Madison Square Garden, then it will become more exciting and interesting. But, nothing beats sitting there on Sunday evening and seeing your name pop up on the board. That's what the players want and thats what most fans want. I would say that Mick gets some sort of bonus for the NCAA also, so I doubt that he wants any part of an NIT. If he did, he probably wouldn't have reacted the way he did after losing to Louisville.

[LongTimer]

I completely agree. If we can make it into the tournament, we'll be one of those double digit seeds that no one wants to play.

The argument isn't whether the NIT can be beneficial - I think everyone agrees that it's better than nothing (or the CBI). But to say that it may be better in the long run to make the NIT rather than the NCAA is crazy.

Catsareback agrees too! :D

[LongTimer]

I, for one, am not asserting I'd prefer for UC to go to the NIT. I'd definitely prefer an NCAA bid. But, to fail to recognize the benefit of playing in the NIT is equally foolish. This team, given its composition, experience level (or lack of it) and players returning next year will derive a benefit from the NIT that will help them next year. As will playing in the NCAA. I think some are arguing that the benefit to the team is greater in the NIT, which may be correct. It may also be correct that playing in the NCAA would be of greater benefit for next year if UC reaches the NCAA then.

The NCAA is way more beneficial in the long run in many more ways than just gaining some experience for your players. The NIT has proven to benefit teams as well, by giving them tournament experience, extra practicing and playing time. The NIT is certainly way better than nothing or the CBIT and will provide benefits to the team. But, you just have to make the dance first. We have to get that feeling back. Plus, we seriously have one of those kind of teams than could jump up and win 2 or 3 in the NCAA. We are right on the cusp of jumping to the next level. If we get the right breaks, and the ball bounces the right way, and we get some refs calls, I can definitely envision a sweet 16 or elite 8 surprise run. Not likely, but certainly not impossible. Who knows when that big signature win will come. It just might come in the NCAA!

[Mick's Da Man]

I, for one, am not asserting I'd prefer for UC to go to the NIT. I'd definitely prefer an NCAA bid. But, to fail to recognize the benefit of playing in the NIT is equally foolish. This team, given its composition, experience level (or lack of it) and players returning next year will derive a benefit from the NIT that will help them next year. As will playing in the NCAA. I think some are arguing that the benefit to the team is greater in the NIT, which may be correct. It may also be correct that playing in the NCAA would be of greater benefit for next year if UC reaches the NCAA then.

Great post. One of the lone voices of reason on this board.

The benefit comes by whichever tournament allows them to play more games. If they make the Big Dance and it's one and done like we always did in the past under the former coach, not much benefit. Sure, if they pull out a win or two, then maybe. I guess until it happens, nobody can be sure.

If they can play 4 games in the NIT and win it versus playing one game in the Big Dance........the NIT is the far better path to go. It's a no-brainer. No wonder so many people don't get it. Lots of no-brains. LOL. :D

[Mick's Da Man]

The NCAA is way more beneficial in the long run in many more ways than just gaining some experience for your players. The NIT has proven to benefit teams as well, by giving them tournament experience, extra practicing and playing time. The NIT is certainly way better than nothing or the CBIT and will provide benefits to the team. But, you just have to make the dance first. We have to get that feeling back. Plus, we seriously have one of those kind of teams than could jump up and win 2 or 3 in the NCAA. We are right on the cusp of jumping to the next level. If we get the right breaks, and the ball bounces the right way, and we get some refs calls, I can definitely envision a sweet 16 or elite 8 surprise run. Not likely, but certainly not impossible. Who knows when that big signature win will come. It just might come in the NCAA!

Hitting the bar early, I see. The game isn't until Thursday. Don't start drinking on Tuesday. :D

A Sweet 16 or Elite 8 run???????????????????????????????:eek:

[LongTimer]

Great post. One of the lone voices of reason on this board.

The benefit comes by whichever tournament allows them to play more games. If they make the Big Dance and it's one and done like we always did in the past under the former coach, not much benefit. Sure, if they pull out a win or two, then maybe. I guess until it happens, nobody can be sure.

If they can play 4 games in the NIT and win it versus playing one game in the Big Dance........the NIT is the far better path to go. It's a no-brainer. No wonder so many people don't get it. Lots of no-brains. LOL. :D

No wonder clueless people want the NIT. They think we were always one and done in the NCAA. Actually, Huggs was one and done twice in 14 years. Maybe you are looking at the current coach and just assuming one and done. Ahhhh, now that makes sense. Ok, I get it now. Yes, with Mick, we should go to the NIT. Glad MDM could clear that up for us all!

[LongTimer]

Hitting the bar early, I see. The game isn't until Thursday. Don't start drinking on Tuesday. :D

A Sweet 16 or Elite 8 run???????????????????????????????:eek:

MDM showing lots of love, support, and confidence for the coach he promotes. Yes, I agree, considering the coach, my thoughts were way out there. I'm glad MDM is pointing this stuff out to me. I spent the whole morning supporting Mick and the #1 mud-slinger comes in and now it's on!!! Thanks for re-focusing me MDM!!! :D

[London 'Cat]

The NCAA is way more beneficial in the long run in many more ways than just gaining some experience for your players. The NIT has proven to benefit teams as well, by giving them tournament experience, extra practicing and playing time. The NIT is certainly way better than nothing or the CBIT and will provide benefits to the team. But, you just have to make the dance first. We have to get that feeling back. Plus, we seriously have one of those kind of teams than could jump up and win 2 or 3 in the NCAA. We are right on the cusp of jumping to the next level. If we get the right breaks, and the ball bounces the right way, and we get some refs calls, I can definitely envision a sweet 16 or elite 8 surprise run. Not likely, but certainly not impossible. Who knows when that big signature win will come. It just might come in the NCAA!

I will grant you that the assertion that the NIT will yield a greater benefit is based on the assumption that UC loses in the first round of the NCAA and that it wins 2-3 games in the NIT. Of course, UC could lose that first NIT game also and any benefit is not realized. Conversely, the 'Cats could get hot and advance 2-3 games into the NCAA tournament, in which case, the benefit to the team and program overall would be far greater. But, the most likely scenario, based on the team's performance this year, is that UC plays more games in the NIT that it would in the NCAA.

The other point I would stress is that my assertion that the benefit may be greater in the NIT is limited by two parameters. First, that the benefit is to this particular team and not the program as a whole. Second, that benefit would only be realized or positively impact next season as opposed to long term.

[Pie Hole]

I will grant you that the assertion that the NIT will yield a greater benefit is based on the assumption that UC loses in the first round of the NCAA and that it wins 2-3 games in the NIT. Of course, UC could lose that first NIT game also and any benefit is not realized. Conversely, the 'Cats could get hot and advance 2-3 games into the NCAA tournament, in which case, the benefit to the team and program overall would be far greater. But, the most likely scenario, based on the team's performance this year, is that UC plays more games in the NIT that it would in the NCAA.

The other point I would stress is that my assertion that the benefit may be greater in the NIT is limited by two parameters. First, that the benefit is to this particular team and not the program as a whole. Second, that benefit would only be realized or positively impact next season as opposed to long term.

My assertion is that your assertion is wrong.

[London 'Cat]

My assertion is that your assertion is wrong.

Wonderful. Thank you for sharing.

[cincycpaw]

Are people really saying it's better to play more games in the NIT than to get a NCAA Tourney bid? Really? Seriously?

In that vein, for the football Bearcats....better to win the Humanitarian Bowl or play in the Orange Bowl?

Come on.

[LongTimer]

Are people really saying it's better to play more games in the NIT than to get a NCAA Tourney bid? Really? Seriously?

In that vein, for the football Bearcats....better to win the Humanitarian Bowl or play in the Orange Bowl?

Come on.

Yep, pretty bizarre CP. Those lost sheep will find their way back to the pack someday hopefully. Talk about fighting a losing battle..... I'll just stop there or else the personal attacks will start back up. That is how those types divert attention away from their silly posts....and I am not referring to London Cat. He actually made some solid points!

[jeffto]

LongTimer accidently stumbled into the correct opinion on this one. The NIT is not a good goal. It is acceptable only if you cannot make the dance. The dance is always the goal! No rationalization can make the NIT a better option than the NCAA.

[Lobot]

LongTimer accidently stumbled into the correct opinion on this one. The NIT is not a good goal. It is acceptable only if you cannot make the dance. The dance is always the goal! No rationalization can make the NIT a better option than the NCAA.

Have to agree with Jeffto. However either way we get tourney experience in the one and done environment which is something we need and the players can learn from.

BTW, don't automatically expect us to get the home game in the NIT with our attendance issues this year. The NIT is about the Moolah when setting home sites.

[ralph1950]

Have to agree with Jeffto. However either way we get tourney experience in the one and done environment which is something we need and the players can learn from.

BTW, don't automatically expect us to get the home game in the NIT with our attendance issues this year. The NIT is about the Moolah when setting home sites.

Attendence has nothing to do with Home games for the NIT. 3 years ago the NIT went to full seeding. The 32 teams are put into 4 brackets seeded 1 to 8 in each bracket. The higher seeded team gets to play the game at home.

[Bearcat Jeff]

The program needs a return to the NCAA. This team has been very close to some of the top recruits only to lose them. By all accounts recruits love Mick Cronin. Ultimately a player wants to win and be on television to get exposure. I believe if U.C. would have been coming off a trip to the NCAA Mick would have landed Tyler Smith. I believe Bobby Maze would have come to U.C.. instead of Tenn.. His perception was that the Vols would be playing for a national championship. If he had chose U.C. Vaughn is not running the point for 30 plus minutes a game. We have to get the perception back that Cincinnati is going to the NCAA every year or at least competing for it. This program is on the way back but it has to take the big step of playing in the NCAA Tournament. That is what a program is measured by. With Mick's ability to get "in" with top recruits this would be a huge tool in actually landing them.

[slimm]

The NIT is not a good goal. It is acceptable only if you cannot make the dance. The dance is always the goal! No rationalization can make the NIT a better option than the NCAA.

especially for big east teams. try telling a recruit we made it all the way to Madison Square Gardens in the NIT. not too exciting when you play regular season games & your conference tournament there.

[London 'Cat]

The program needs a return to the NCAA. This team has been very close to some of the top recruits only to lose them. By all accounts recruits love Mick Cronin. Ultimately a player wants to win and be on television to get exposure. I believe if U.C. would have been coming off a trip to the NCAA Mick would have landed Tyler Smith. I believe Bobby Maze would have come to U.C.. instead of Tenn.. His perception was that the Vols would be playing for a national championship. If he had chose U.C. Vaughn is not running the point for 30 plus minutes a game. We have to get the perception back that Cincinnati is going to the NCAA every year or at least competing for it. This program is on the way back but it has to take the big step of playing in the NCAA Tournament. That is what a program is measured by. With Mick's ability to get "in" with top recruits this would be a huge tool in actually landing them.

You raise a good point. As I have said, the NCAA is better for the program overall and for the long-term future of it, ie recruiting. The benefit from the probable greater number of games in the NIT would be limited to the current roster and would only benefit those players next year with a lesser, indirect benefit to the program overall and long term. Either way, the team benefits from a post-season experience that will hopefully prepare it for next season and its goal of reaching the NCAA tournament.

[jeffto]

Last year when we were all talking about the NCAA tourney and Mick was making his predictions we went out and lost the last 5 games of the regular season. This year we're talking about it again, Mick is weighing in and we've lost 2 in a row with 4 to go. Deja Vu all over again?

[Mick's Da Man]

Last year when we were all talking about the NCAA tourney and Mick was making his predictions we went out and lost the last 5 games of the regular season. This year we're talking about it again, Mick is weighing in and we've lost 2 in a row with 4 to go. Deja Vu all over again?

What is the ranking of the 2 teams we lost to?

Enough said.

No comparison to last year.

[LongTimer]

What is the ranking of the 2 teams we lost to?

Enough said.

No comparison to last year.

Wow, this is really hard. If I disagree with MDM, then I have to agree with Jeffto. Eeenie, Meeenie, Mighty, Moe....... Oh what the ****, I have to go with Jeffto here. (Can't believe I'm saying this!!) Hope Mick can knock off his mentor or it's 3 straight losses with Syracuse looming on the road! That end of season tank job is just a heartbeat away. Yes, it could be Deja Vu again!

Soon we might have to compare this.....

A coach who couldn't get past the 2nd round of the NCAA

versus

A coach who chokes down the stretch every year and doesn't make the NCAA

Which will it be? Should be a lot of fun watching what shakes out!! :D

[jeffto]

What is the ranking of the 2 teams we lost to?

Enough said.

No comparison to last year.Our first two losses of the string last year were to a #7 and a #21. This year to a #7 and a #4. All top 25. I'd say it's comparable.

Last year we got to relax after the first two with a #74, #95 and a #22. Of course we lost them all. This year our last 4 are a #6, #24, #131 and #86.

What will we do this year?

(all rankings are Pomeroy)

[catscratchfever]

I don't see how this year could be considered a choke job by anyone other than haters, considering the competition. Last year, I agree, was a choke job,

[Mick's Da Man]

I don't see how this year could be considered a choke job by anyone other than haters, considering the competition. Last year, I agree, was a choke job,

Last year's team had the benefit of having mostly the same starting lineup as the previous year, save for Bishop and Adam H. But Gentry and Sikes still had experience. So it was mostly like returning a pretty experienced lineup. Kinda like what next year will be for UC's team.

They didn't so much choke down the stretch, but the more talented teams had gained alot of experience and were peaking in February. UC had already reached their ceiling and they just didn't have enough talent to beat those teams.

This year's team has a much higher ceiling, and they've yet to reach it. They won't reach it until late next season.

[LongTimer]

Last year's team had the benefit of having mostly the same starting lineup as the previous year, save for Bishop and Adam H. But Gentry and Sikes still had experience. So it was mostly like returning a pretty experienced lineup. Kinda like what next year will be for UC's team.

They didn't so much choke down the stretch, but the more talented teams had gained alot of experience and were peaking in February. UC had already reached their ceiling and they just didn't have enough talent to beat those teams.

This year's team has a much higher ceiling, and they've yet to reach it. They won't reach it until late next season.

Spin it any way you like. It was a choke! A team that wins 8 Big East games and can't even beat Bradley in the CBIT at the end. It was a choke or bad coaching, whatever you want to call it!

[Mick's Da Man]

Spin it any way you like. It was a choke! A team that wins 8 Big East games and can't even beat Bradley in the CBIT at the end. It was a choke or bad coaching, whatever you want to call it!

Actually, it was a great coaching job to get that many wins in the tough Big East with the least amount of talent in the Big East.

But spin it any way you want.

[LongTimer]

Actually, it was a great coaching job to get that many wins in the tough Big East with the least amount of talent in the Big East.

But spin it any way you want.

It was a great coaching job...I agree, but it's the end that counts! If we are going to define Huggs years as a failure because of his end of the season results, then we have to treat Mick equally. Therefore, the path through the season was impressive, but in the end, it became a huge disappointment and failure. Huggs had those same great paths through the season, #1 rankings, championships, but at the end, disappointing losses....and everyone in here wanted him out of here because of it. There is no double standard in La-La Land....I mean Bearcatland. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Last season was a choke, failure, bad coaching...and this season is on life support. Mick could be on probation if he does it again! Should be an interesting last 3-4 weeks! :D

[London 'Cat]

Given the way the 'Cats played in the middle part of last season, the losing streak at the end of last year was very poor. Whatever the reason for it, it was unacceptable. But it began when Cronin began lobbying for an at-large bid. I said a few weeks ago on here, when Cronin began talking about the NCAA tournament this year, that I hoped we did not endure a repeat performance. At least the 'Cats have won two games since then. The Pitt loss was no suprise and I thought they might have a chance to beat UL, but did not. So they are 2-2 since that talk began. Now, the 'Cats have three consecutive tough games to play - WVU at home, at Syracuse and at USF (any road game is tough in this conference; ask Marquette about playing at USF) - and one sleeper team in SHU. Anyone who is not worried about the next four games is not paying attention.

[LongTimer]

Given the way the 'Cats played in the middle part of last season, the losing streak at the end of last year was very poor. Whatever the reason for it, it was unacceptable. But it began when Cronin began lobbying for an at-large bid. I said a few weeks ago on here, when Cronin began talking about the NCAA tournament this year, that I hoped we did not endure a repeat performance. At least the 'Cats have won two games since then. The Pitt loss was no suprise and I thought they might have a chance to beat UL, but did not. So they are 2-2 since that talk began. Now, the 'Cats have three consecutive tough games to play - WVU at home, at Syracuse and at USF (any road game is tough in this conference; ask Marquette about playing at USF) - and one sleeper team in SHU. Anyone who is not worried about the next four games is not paying attention.

London Cat, you are spot on here. This finish will be very interesting and not at all easy. Huggs was great at finishing strong leading into the tourney, but then had troubles in the tourney...if you call a 20-14 record in the tourney trouble. Mick on the other hand, surprises everyone with some unexpected victories in league play, gets your hopes up, and "BAM"...the team tanks down the stretch and we are left out of the tourney, and last year we tanked so bad that we were even left out of the NIT also. Hmmmm, wonder what I would rather have....mid season upsets or 2nd round NCAA losses. Gotta go with those ever-popular mid season surprise victories. Wouldn't want to hurt any feelings in here!:rolleyes:

[Mick's Da Man]

It was a great coaching job...I agree, but it's the end that counts! If we are going to define Huggs years as a failure because of his end of the season results, then we have to treat Mick equally. Therefore, the path through the season was impressive, but in the end, it became a huge disappointment and failure. Huggs had those same great paths through the season, #1 rankings, championships, but at the end, disappointing losses....and everyone in here wanted him out of here because of it. There is no double standard in La-La Land....I mean Bearcatland. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Last season was a choke, failure, bad coaching...and this season is on life support. Mick could be on probation if he does it again! Should be an interesting last 3-4 weeks! :D

You just jumped the shark, my man.

Huggs teams were nationally ranked and typically won the Great Midwest or Conference USA. Comparing how Huggs "great" teams choked versus how a makeshift UC team due to a decimated program choked IN A FAR FAR BETTER CONFERENCE than Huggs ever coached a UC team in IS SO FAR OFF IN LEFT FIELD.

Your IQ just dropped 100 points. Do you realize that? :confused:

[London 'Cat]

London Cat, you are spot on here. This finish will be very interesting and not at all easy. Huggs was great at finishing strong leading into the tourney, but then had troubles in the tourney...if you call a 20-14 record in the tourney trouble. Mick on the other hand, surprises everyone with some unexpected victories in league play, gets your hopes up, and "BAM"...the team tanks down the stretch and we are left out of the tourney, and last year we tanked so bad that we were even left out of the NIT also. Hmmmm, wonder what I would rather have....mid season upsets or 2nd round NCAA losses. Gotta go with those ever-popular mid season surprise victories. Wouldn't want to hurt any feelings in here!:rolleyes:

I really don't feel that the team will tank down the stretch this season. But it's hard to dismiss that possibility given the collapse last year. I hope that Cronin learned from that last season and is taking preventive measures this year. It seems he is concerned, having banned the team from its lockerroom, taken away the garb, etc. Let's hope the team responds.

[jeffto]

You just jumped the shark, my man.

Huggs teams were nationally ranked and typically won the Great Midwest or Conference USA. Comparing how Huggs "great" teams choked versus how a makeshift UC team due to a decimated program choked IN A FAR FAR BETTER CONFERENCE than Huggs ever coached a UC team in IS SO FAR OFF IN LEFT FIELD.

Your IQ just dropped 100 points. Do you realize that? :confused:In CUSA, GMW, etc. the teams are never as good as their record. In the Big East your record is never as good as your team.

[BearcatAlum1]

In CUSA, GMW, etc. the teams are never as good as their record. In the Big East your record is never as good as your team.

As a generalization, I agree 100%. The same can be said for the ACC.

I hate to use X as an example, but they went into the SEC and beat a "solid" LSU team (that is now #18 in the Nation). LSU is the shining light in the SEC, and they lost on their home floor to Xavier. Subsequently, X went on to have struggles on the road in the A10. If anyone thinks LSU (who is the best team in the SEC) would finish higher than 7th or 8th in the BigEast, they need to put down the pipe and stop drinking the malt.

BearcatAlum1

[LongTimer]

You just jumped the shark, my man.

Huggs teams were nationally ranked and typically won the Great Midwest or Conference USA. Comparing how Huggs "great" teams choked versus how a makeshift UC team due to a decimated program choked IN A FAR FAR BETTER CONFERENCE than Huggs ever coached a UC team in IS SO FAR OFF IN LEFT FIELD.

Your IQ just dropped 100 points. Do you realize that? :confused:

Well, that's ok. It started at 250 so I'm down to 150 now. Another 125 and I'll be down to your level. Conf USA was always in the top 6, right with the Big East and the others. 33% of the current BE is Conf. USA. Two of the top 3 are conf USA teams. Great Midwest won two national titles in the 80's. Why do you think the Big East wanted to merge with Conf USA...lol...for our powerful football teams? Once again, you had to personally attack to try and hide your ignorance. The Mods need to ban your *** for continually attacking posters.

[bearcatbilly6225]

I love it when the people who hated those 2nd round NCAA losses are now theorizing that going to the NIT will actually be better than going to an NCAA. The mentality of this forum is a perfect example of why the program is where it is today.....still at least "one more year away" after 4 years of futility! I suspect with the rampant desire for mediocrity that exists in our supposed fans and officials, we are probably still even more than a year away.

this is a great post... this just completely sums up the way the people act about the CATS now.... WHat have we become???? I mean NIT .....these people all I can think is are very close to someone in the UC organization that wants to see no one lose their job or something. It drives me absolutely nuts how big game after big game people say oh "its ok we are suppose to lose that game on the road at pitt. But when louisville comes to our house we will win and must win that game, home games are looked at differently" ville comes to our house beats our tails " oh its ok they are ranked #7 in the country we are suppose to lose that game" huh well I though Notre Dame just demolished that #7 ranked team??? and so on and so on.... just read the post from the past is is rather humerous actually. I will accept NIT this year, but NEXT YEAR not the following year, or the following year we MUST place in the top 6 in BEAST and make the NCAA tourney and make it past the first round...IF NOT THEN THIS COACHING STAFF MUST GO!!!! Enough is enough, I am sick and tired of hearing oh lets go get the next game, oh we lost, we will get there next year, oh we lost, next year is for sure.... I hope and pray that this staff gets us to this next year or we will take another step back but is a step back that will have to be done, because they will have proven they cannot get it done. I mean heck everyone wined and cried that Huggy couldnt get past the second round, and now we just accept CBI??? or NIT???? **** NO???? GO CATS!!!:mad:

[bearcatbilly6225]

There is alot more to be gained from going far in the NIT than going one and done in the NCAA Tournament.

Louisville won the NIT a few years back and went to the Final Four of the NCAA Tournament the following year.
West Virginia won the NIT 2 years ago and went to the Elite Eight of the NCAA Tournament last year, I believe.



If you're not going to do anything in the NCAA Tournament, why not get more games under your belt in the NIT and possibly bring home something to build on for next year?

Makes so much sense, no wonder it escapes some people.


this example right here should tell the idiotic committee that those BEAST teams are better and should of been in the tourney..... **** take 10 teams from BEAST if they are the better teams

[bearcatbilly6225]

quick question and Ill check the replies in the morning.... ANyone know how the conference would go if we did add 4 teams and went to football schools and basketball schools??? Maybe this would help from everyone beating the **** out of each other or something... i dont know just not sure of how it would work.

[bearcatbilly6225]

One More Thing I Loved Huggs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But Thursday I Hope We Whip His Butt/wvu Up And Down The Court!!!!!

;0)

[Billy Don]

Face it folks, it's 4 long years since Huggins left and UC went to the NCAA. I don't see how anyone who was so called happy to see Huggins leave could be happy about no NCAA for 4 years. 1 and done in the NCAA looks a lot better now doesn't it! Hard to believe the fans who were glad to see Huggins leave because he didn't always get out of the first weekend are now just hoping UC can just get to the first weekend. You can bet the ones who say they were glad he left and are at the game tonight will give him a standing ovation. Years from now fans will still remember when UC was a national basketball power. Nothing we as fans can do about it but suffer! All we can do is pine away for the good ole Huggs thugs years!

[ralph1950]

Face it folks, it's 4 long years since Huggins left and UC went to the NCAA. I don't see how anyone who was so called happy to see Huggins leave could be happy about no NCAA for 4 years. 1 and done in the NCAA looks a lot better now doesn't it! Hard to believe the fans who were glad to see Huggins leave because he didn't always get out of the first weekend are now just hoping UC can just get to the first weekend. You can bet the ones who say they were glad he left and are at the game tonight will give him a standing ovation. Years from now fans will still remember when UC was a national basketball power. Nothing we as fans can do about it but suffer! All we can do is pine away for the good ole Huggs thugs years!

No pineing away here. UC is much better off with Mick Cronin as head coach. It was definitely time for Hugs to go, he had worn out his welcome. Sometimes you have to take a small step back to take a giant leap forward.

[ME80]

Face it folks, it's 4 long years since Huggins left and UC went to the NCAA. I don't see how anyone who was so called happy to see Huggins leave could be happy about no NCAA for 4 years. 1 and done in the NCAA looks a lot better now doesn't it! Hard to believe the fans who were glad to see Huggins leave because he didn't always get out of the first weekend are now just hoping UC can just get to the first weekend. You can bet the ones who say they were glad he left and are at the game tonight will give him a standing ovation. Years from now fans will still remember when UC was a national basketball power. Nothing we as fans can do about it but suffer! All we can do is pine away for the good ole Huggs thugs years!

I have to be careful here because I loved Huggs, but this is the type of post that just keeps the fires of this never ending discussion stoked. Don, no one is happy with an NIT bid. I think you are reading way too much into some of these comments.

There are those (sorry to use this term since it infuriates so many) that will never get over it, there are those that will not accept the rebuilding process that had to occur and feel that another coach would have had a team in the top tier of the Big East by now, and unfortunately, there are those that also will never give Huggs the credit he deserves.

I can accept those that are impatient and want success now, I can accept that many have criticisms of Mick and the job he has done so far, but at this point in the game I cannot accept those that feel this program is doomed and Mick can never get this program to succeed again. Folks, just a month ago, a lot of people were trying to figure out if the team could even win a game the rest of the year! Now everyone seems to be upset that Mick may not get them an NCAA bid.

Oh yes, to answer your question Don, I would much rather be in the NCAA than NIT and I also truly believe that no matter how strong the BIG East is the committee has 8 as its magic number! They will not go to 9, it is not written but it is understood.

[LongTimer]

Face it folks, it's 4 long years since Huggins left and UC went to the NCAA. I don't see how anyone who was so called happy to see Huggins leave could be happy about no NCAA for 4 years. 1 and done in the NCAA looks a lot better now doesn't it! Hard to believe the fans who were glad to see Huggins leave because he didn't always get out of the first weekend are now just hoping UC can just get to the first weekend. You can bet the ones who say they were glad he left and are at the game tonight will give him a standing ovation. Years from now fans will still remember when UC was a national basketball power. Nothing we as fans can do about it but suffer! All we can do is pine away for the good ole Huggs thugs years!

Come on BD....such negativity!! Now we have that tried and true battle cry that has become our identity...."WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR" We wish for the NIT and the CBIT. We have 6000 or 7000 fans at our games. We get our butts beat continuously on our home court. We choke down the stretch at the end of the seasons. But we have that great excuse.....the rough and tough Big East Conference. Yeah, we have a coach that paved the way for us getting into that conference and we send him packing and hire a video coordinator to take the reigns, and then we sit back and talk about him being the next coming of Coach K, all while we keep piling on the years since our last NCAA Bid. We aren't even a blip on the national radar anymore...just an afterthought like Seton Hall, Rutgers, St. Johns, etc. 4 friggin years!!!!! Tonight, we get to go and root against the guy that built this program, only to see it trashed. That is going to be fun. I'm sure many will be watching him thinking..."What if?" But I digress. We have so much to be thankful for here. We get to watch great teams come into the Shoe every week. Look how many teams we can root for in the NCAA. When we fill out those brackets this year, we can fill up the final 4 with Big East teams. We can flip channels during the tournament and just find another Big east team to root for playing on any channel. I'm sure we will find our old coach somewhere on one of those channels coaching his *** off as usual. It can't get much better than this. And as for our team....we always have..."Wait till next year"...to add comfort to the fact that the NCAA is a distant memory in all of our minds. Ain't it great to be a Bearcat!!! :eek:

[Bearcat Jeff]

It's always great to be a Bearcat fan my friend. I've loved them a long time just like you and on good times and bad it has always been great to be a Bearcat fan.

[LongTimer]

It's always great to be a Bearcat fan my friend. I've loved them a long time just like you and on good times and bad it has always been great to be a Bearcat fan.

I keep telling myself that BJ! But whatever....we are a football school. Anything we get in basketball is just gravy!

[richard k.]

Well, that's ok. It started at 250 so I'm down to 150 now. Another 125 and I'll be down to your level. Conf USA was always in the top 6, right with the Big East and the others. 33% of the current BE is Conf. USA. Two of the top 3 are conf USA teams. Great Midwest won two national titles in the 80's. Why do you think the Big East wanted to merge with Conf USA...lol...for our powerful football teams? Once again, you had to personally attack to try and hide your ignorance. The Mods need to ban your *** for continually attacking posters.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - they are NOT entitled to their own facts. The BEast did not want to MERGE with CUSA. Interestingly, and contrary to your contention, what they wanted, and desperately needed, at the time were 3 football schools to replace the 3 arguably best football schools they had who were leaving to join the ACC.

Stop and think for a moment - do you really believe that the departure of Virginia Tech, Boston College and Miami (FL) had a significant impact on the quality of BEast men's basketball? Come on - they were down to 5 football playing schools which was not enough to keep their BCS standing. So - UofL was easy, they had an up and coming football program, new stadium (built or being built). They wanted a Florida presence to replace Miami, and the best available at the time was USF - also with what appeared to be an up and coming football program, playing in a major market, in an NFL stadium. The third school was not so easy. Happily UC had Bob Goin as its AD - with the knowledge (he had guided Fl. St. through the same process), connections, and foresight to have a major program improving UC's sports facilities, to land UC the 3rd slot. (And by the way, for those that believe Nancy Z. was truly needed to wow the other Presidents as to UC's academics, does anyone really believe for one moment that UofL has a better overall academic standing than UC? Really?)

The final piece to the puzzle was put in to place when the basketball only schools saw this situation as an opportunity to "get even." They would only allow 3 new football schools if there were enough new basketball only schools to keep the numbers even, hence Marquette and De Paul.

By the way - in a "merger" generally 2, or more, entities combine to make 1. The BEast "stole" a bunch of schools from CUSA, but did not merge - CUSA simply turned around and "stole" a bunch of schools from the Sun Belt, etc.

Finally, "two of the top three are CUSA." When were UConn and Pitt in CUSA? :confused:

[London 'Cat]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - they are NOT entitled to their own facts. The BEast did not want to MERGE with CUSA. Interestingly, and contrary to your contention, what they wanted, and desperately needed, at the time were 3 football schools to replace the 3 arguably best football schools they had who were leaving to join the ACC.

Stop and think for a moment - do you really believe that the departure of Virginia Tech, Boston College and Miami (FL) had a significant impact on the quality of BEast men's basketball? Come on - they were down to 5 football playing schools which was not enough to keep their BCS standing. So - UofL was easy, they had an up and coming football program, new stadium (built or being built). They wanted a Florida presence to replace Miami, and the best available at the time was USF - also with what appeared to be an up and coming football program, playing in a major market, in an NFL stadium. The third school was not so easy. Happily UC had Bob Goin as its AD - with the knowledge (he had guided Fl. St. through the same process), connections, and foresight to have a major program improving UC's sports facilities, to land UC the 3rd slot. (And by the way, for those that believe Nancy Z. was truly needed to wow the other Presidents as to UC's academics, does anyone really believe for one moment that UofL has a better overall academic standing than UC? Really?)

The final piece to the puzzle was put in to place when the basketball only schools saw this situation as an opportunity to "get even." They would only allow 3 new football schools if there were enough new basketball only schools to keep the numbers even, hence Marquette and De Paul.

By the way - in a "merger" generally 2, or more, entities combine to make 1. The BEast "stole" a bunch of schools from CUSA, but did not merge - CUSA simply turned around and "stole" a bunch of schools from the Sun Belt, etc.

Finally, "two of the top three are CUSA." When were UConn and Pitt in CUSA? :confused:

Outstanding post, RK. A logical, cogent, well thought out argument. As I understand the facts surrounding UC's invitation to join the BEast, this is likely accurate.

[LongTimer]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - they are NOT entitled to their own facts. The BEast did not want to MERGE with CUSA. Interestingly, and contrary to your contention, what they wanted, and desperately needed, at the time were 3 football schools to replace the 3 arguably best football schools they had who were leaving to join the ACC.

Stop and think for a moment - do you really believe that the departure of Virginia Tech, Boston College and Miami (FL) had a significant impact on the quality of BEast men's basketball? Come on - they were down to 5 football playing schools which was not enough to keep their BCS standing. So - UofL was easy, they had an up and coming football program, new stadium (built or being built). They wanted a Florida presence to replace Miami, and the best available at the time was USF - also with what appeared to be an up and coming football program, playing in a major market, in an NFL stadium. The third school was not so easy. Happily UC had Bob Goin as its AD - with the knowledge (he had guided Fl. St. through the same process), connections, and foresight to have a major program improving UC's sports facilities, to land UC the 3rd slot. (And by the way, for those that believe Nancy Z. was truly needed to wow the other Presidents as to UC's academics, does anyone really believe for one moment that UofL has a better overall academic standing than UC? Really?)

The final piece to the puzzle was put in to place when the basketball only schools saw this situation as an opportunity to "get even." They would only allow 3 new football schools if there were enough new basketball only schools to keep the numbers even, hence Marquette and De Paul.

By the way - in a "merger" generally 2, or more, entities combine to make 1. The BEast "stole" a bunch of schools from CUSA, but did not merge - CUSA simply turned around and "stole" a bunch of schools from the Sun Belt, etc.

Finally, "two of the top three are CUSA." When were UConn and Pitt in CUSA? :confused:

Thanks for the education RK. Haven't looked at the standings lately. I was remembering a few weeks ago when Marquette and Louisville were 1-2. So, it's 2 of the top 4. My bad. Some of your facts are wrong also, but I am not going to take the time to address them one by one. Your post was well written with good information. Good job!

[jeffto]

Thanks for the education RK. Haven't looked at the standings lately. I was remembering a few weeks ago when Marquette and Louisville were 1-2. So, it's 2 of the top 4. My bad. Some of your facts are wrong also, but I am not going to take the time to address them one by one. Your post was well written with good information. Good job!Please complete your patronizing and insulting reply by citing some incorrect facts. RK was spot on and you can't do any better than this? For one, you owe him an apology.

[LongTimer]

Please complete your patronizing and insulting reply by citing some incorrect facts. RK was spot on and you can't do any better than this? For one, you owe him an apology.

RK, I am sincerely sorry! Jeffto, you owe the rest of the forum an apology for making us read your posts every day! :D

[Billy Don]

Please complete your patronizing and insulting reply by citing some incorrect facts. RK was spot on and you can't do any better than this? For one, you owe him an apology.
RK has been making good posts for years and knows how the game works. I suspect the only way you could upset him would be to say his tennis game was lousy. RK I've seen plenty of women play tennis better than you! How's that?

[jeffto]

RK, I am sincerely sorry! Jeffto, you owe the rest of the forum an apology for making us read your posts every day! :DI notice you, not so cleverly, dodged citing those facts you alluded to. Pleae share your great knowledge with us.

[LongTimer]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - they are NOT entitled to their own facts. The BEast did not want to MERGE with CUSA. Interestingly, and contrary to your contention, what they wanted, and desperately needed, at the time were 3 football schools to replace the 3 arguably best football schools they had who were leaving to join the ACC.

Stop and think for a moment - do you really believe that the departure of Virginia Tech, Boston College and Miami (FL) had a significant impact on the quality of BEast men's basketball? Come on - they were down to 5 football playing schools which was not enough to keep their BCS standing. So - UofL was easy, they had an up and coming football program, new stadium (built or being built). They wanted a Florida presence to replace Miami, and the best available at the time was USF - also with what appeared to be an up and coming football program, playing in a major market, in an NFL stadium. The third school was not so easy. Happily UC had Bob Goin as its AD - with the knowledge (he had guided Fl. St. through the same process), connections, and foresight to have a major program improving UC's sports facilities, to land UC the 3rd slot. (And by the way, for those that believe Nancy Z. was truly needed to wow the other Presidents as to UC's academics, does anyone really believe for one moment that UofL has a better overall academic standing than UC? Really?)

The final piece to the puzzle was put in to place when the basketball only schools saw this situation as an opportunity to "get even." They would only allow 3 new football schools if there were enough new basketball only schools to keep the numbers even, hence Marquette and De Paul.

By the way - in a "merger" generally 2, or more, entities combine to make 1. The BEast "stole" a bunch of schools from CUSA, but did not merge - CUSA simply turned around and "stole" a bunch of schools from the Sun Belt, etc.

Finally, "two of the top three are CUSA." When were UConn and Pitt in CUSA? :confused:

"Happily UC had Bob Goin as its AD - with the knowledge (he had guided Fl. St. through the same process), connections, and foresight to have a major program improving UC's sports facilities, to land UC the 3rd slot. (And by the way, for those that believe Nancy Z. was truly needed to wow the other Presidents as to UC's academics, does anyone really believe for one moment that UofL has a better overall academic standing than UC? Really?)"

UC was picked for one reason. We had Bob Huggins and a powerhouse basketball program and we also happened to have a football team. Bob Goin and Nancy Z and our improving facilities, etc. were nice add-ons, but your post left out the #1 reason and he is coaching against us tonight. All other reasons and factors are bogus BS. This has been well documented, reported, written about, discussed, etc. and everyone, except apparently you (and Jeffto), knows why we are in the Big East. But, other than that, your post was well written. Thank you for your contribution.

[jeffto]

"Happily UC had Bob Goin as its AD - with the knowledge (he had guided Fl. St. through the same process), connections, and foresight to have a major program improving UC's sports facilities, to land UC the 3rd slot. (And by the way, for those that believe Nancy Z. was truly needed to wow the other Presidents as to UC's academics, does anyone really believe for one moment that UofL has a better overall academic standing than UC? Really?)"

UC was picked for one reason. We had Bob Huggins and a powerhouse basketball program and we also happened to have a football team. Bob Goin and Nancy Z and our improving facilities, etc. were nice add-ons, but your post left out the #1 reason and he is coaching against us tonight. All other reasons and factors are bogus BS. This has been well documented, reported, written about, discussed, etc. and everyone, except apparently you (and Jeffto), knows why we are in the Big East. But, other than that, your post was well written. Thank you for your contribution.That's an opinion. Cite some sources, quotes, etc. Saying it's "well-documented" doesn't make it true.

[LongTimer]

That's an opinion. Cite some sources, quotes, etc. Saying it's "well-documented" doesn't make it true.

Come on....if you want to go back 4 years and look up all the articles and try to find tapes of sports shows, be my guest. We all know why we are in the Big East. Believe what you want. 98% of our fans know the truth. Richard K didn't cite any quotes and sources. That was all his opinions. They sounded good, but who knows.

[bearcatbilly6225]

this is a great post... this just completely sums up the way the people act about the CATS now.... WHat have we become???? I mean NIT .....these people all I can think is are very close to someone in the UC organization that wants to see no one lose their job or something. It drives me absolutely nuts how big game after big game people say oh "its ok we are suppose to lose that game on the road at pitt. But when louisville comes to our house we will win and must win that game, home games are looked at differently" ville comes to our house beats our tails " oh its ok they are ranked #7 in the country we are suppose to lose that game" huh well I though Notre Dame just demolished that #7 ranked team??? and so on and so on.... just read the post from the past is is rather humerous actually. I will accept NIT this year, but NEXT YEAR not the following year, or the following year we MUST place in the top 6 in BEAST and make the NCAA tourney and make it past the first round...IF NOT THEN THIS COACHING STAFF MUST GO!!!! Enough is enough, I am sick and tired of hearing oh lets go get the next game, oh we lost, we will get there next year, oh we lost, next year is for sure.... I hope and pray that this staff gets us to this next year or we will take another step back but is a step back that will have to be done, because they will have proven they cannot get it done. I mean heck everyone wined and cried that Huggy couldnt get past the second round, and now we just accept CBI??? or NIT???? **** NO???? GO CATS!!!

Wow thought for sure I would hear something about this post? lol

[Pie Hole]

Come on....if you want to go back 4 years and look up all the articles and try to find tapes of sports shows, be my guest. We all know why we are in the Big East. Believe what you want. 98% of our fans know the truth. Richard K didn't cite any quotes and sources. That was all his opinions. They sounded good, but who knows.

I completely agree with Longtimer on this one. There is one reason that we are in the Big East now. You should thank him tonight when you see him.

[LongTimer]

this is a great post... this just completely sums up the way the people act about the CATS now.... WHat have we become???? I mean NIT .....these people all I can think is are very close to someone in the UC organization that wants to see no one lose their job or something. It drives me absolutely nuts how big game after big game people say oh "its ok we are suppose to lose that game on the road at pitt. But when louisville comes to our house we will win and must win that game, home games are looked at differently" ville comes to our house beats our tails " oh its ok they are ranked #7 in the country we are suppose to lose that game" huh well I though Notre Dame just demolished that #7 ranked team??? and so on and so on.... just read the post from the past is is rather humerous actually. I will accept NIT this year, but NEXT YEAR not the following year, or the following year we MUST place in the top 6 in BEAST and make the NCAA tourney and make it past the first round...IF NOT THEN THIS COACHING STAFF MUST GO!!!! Enough is enough, I am sick and tired of hearing oh lets go get the next game, oh we lost, we will get there next year, oh we lost, next year is for sure.... I hope and pray that this staff gets us to this next year or we will take another step back but is a step back that will have to be done, because they will have proven they cannot get it done. I mean heck everyone wined and cried that Huggy couldnt get past the second round, and now we just accept CBI??? or NIT???? **** NO???? GO CATS!!!

Wow thought for sure I would hear something about this post? lol

Sorry bc6225, good post that says it all. Our standards have fallen way down.....unless the boys earning those criminal justice degrees is offsetting the decline in our basketball. In the old days, we got good publicity about our great teams, bad publicity about some of our players, and near the end...some bad stuff about Huggs. Now we get no publicity at all since we don't win anything of importance. The bad publicity is pretty much gone...no arrests, guys getting those criminal justice degrees, etc. But, the good publicity is gone too, because our program has been floundering for 4 years. I'll take the good with the bad versus nothing at all. The actual good back then was far more prevalent than the occasional horse punchers and guys leaving for the NBA before they got those precious criminal justice degrees!

[LongTimer]

I completely agree with Longtimer on this one. There is one reason that we are in the Big East now. You should thank him tonight when you see him.

No thanks is required Pie Hole. I am just doing community service by bringing my wealth of knowledge to this forum. Oh wait....you were talking about thanking Huggs.....my bad! :D

[levydl]

this is a great post... this just completely sums up the way the people act about the CATS now.... WHat have we become???? I mean NIT .....these people all I can think is are very close to someone in the UC organization that wants to see no one lose their job or something. It drives me absolutely nuts how big game after big game people say oh "its ok we are suppose to lose that game on the road at pitt. But when louisville comes to our house we will win and must win that game, home games are looked at differently" ville comes to our house beats our tails " oh its ok they are ranked #7 in the country we are suppose to lose that game" huh well I though Notre Dame just demolished that #7 ranked team??? and so on and so on.... just read the post from the past is is rather humerous actually. I will accept NIT this year, but NEXT YEAR not the following year, or the following year we MUST place in the top 6 in BEAST and make the NCAA tourney and make it past the first round...IF NOT THEN THIS COACHING STAFF MUST GO!!!! Enough is enough, I am sick and tired of hearing oh lets go get the next game, oh we lost, we will get there next year, oh we lost, next year is for sure.... I hope and pray that this staff gets us to this next year or we will take another step back but is a step back that will have to be done, because they will have proven they cannot get it done. I mean heck everyone wined and cried that Huggy couldnt get past the second round, and now we just accept CBI??? or NIT???? **** NO???? GO CATS!!!

Wow thought for sure I would hear something about this post? lol

What, like someone commenting how you at one point say you accept an NIT berth this year, but then rail against those who accept an NIT berth this year?

Or someone saying you sound like a bad photocopy of George Steinbrenner and apparently have no sense reality in regard to where this team has come 3 years from having virtually no roster?

Something like that?

Oh, and add some more ??? and !!! and CAPITAL LETTERS for greater effect.

[Lobot]

Folks, you're getting out of control and argumentative. Get back to the topic subject.

[LongTimer]

What, like someone commenting how you at one point say you accept an NIT berth this year, but then rail against those who accept an NIT berth this year?

Or someone saying you sound like a bad photocopy of George Steinbrenner and apparently have no sense reality in regard to where this team has come 3 years from having virtually no roster?
Something like that?

Oh, and add some more ??? and !!! and CAPITAL LETTERS for greater effect.

Levydl, I can't give Mick full credit for coming from nothing since he is partially responsible for us having nothing...

1.) Turned away Devan Downey
2.) Recruited ineligible Hernol Hall
3.) Recruited ineligible Adam H.
4.) Didn't close the deal on Thabeet

1., 2., and 3. are definitely his fault. 4 may be a result of spending too much time on 2 and 3 or Thabeet seeing a playing time issue competing with Hall and Adam H...who knows. But, we could have been a vastly different team and our recovery could have been light years faster had he not done #1. I'd love to see where we would be this year with Downey as a senior. I suspect tonight's game would be meaningless and we would just be playing for a seed. Vaughn might be averaging 25 pts. a game with everyone focusing on stopping Downey's penetration.

[catsfan32]

^I'm sure Thabeet wasnt intimidated by Hall or Adam for playing time. Secondly, from what i have heard and know Thabeet was UCONN's to lose and ours to gain, it would have been an incredible steal if we would have landed him, it was also reported that Thabeet said he didnt want to be part of the rebuilding process at Cincy. It would be pretty cool to see how good this team would be with Downey, but i'm over him not wanting to be a part of the program then asking to come back and Cronin turning him away, is hindsight it wasnt the best decision, but if a kid doesnt want to be apart of your program and believe in your coaching, then a couple weeks later wants to, would you really want a kid who isnt committed?

[LongTimer]

^I'm sure Thabeet wasnt intimidated by Hall or Adam for playing time. Secondly, from what i have heard and know Thabeet was UCONN's to lose and ours to gain, it would have been an incredible steal if we would have landed him, it was also reported that Thabeet said he didnt want to be part of the rebuilding process at Cincy. It would be pretty cool to see how good this team would be with Downey, but i'm over him not wanting to be a part of the program then asking to come back and Cronin turning him away, is hindsight it wasnt the best decision, but if a kid doesnt want to be apart of your program and believe in your coaching, then a couple weeks later wants to, would you really want a kid who isnt committed?

Yes, his initial reason for leaving was because Andy didn't get the job. If he spent a few weeks getting to know Mick and what he stood for, and then he decided that this is the place for him, then he is telling you that he is committed once again. Why would he have initially been committed to an unknown coach coming in. Yes, I would take him back in a heartbeat. And in hindsight...my God....he would have made a world of difference.

As to Thabeet, just look back in the recruiting archives on this sight. His high school coach thought he was within hours of signing with us. He thought it was a done deal. He was a very raw player. Hernol Hall supposedly was more polished. I definitely could see Thabeet thinking about playing time. Mick built Hall up pretty big when he landed him.

[ralph1950]

"Happily UC had Bob Goin as its AD - with the knowledge (he had guided Fl. St. through the same process), connections, and foresight to have a major program improving UC's sports facilities, to land UC the 3rd slot. (And by the way, for those that believe Nancy Z. was truly needed to wow the other Presidents as to UC's academics, does anyone really believe for one moment that UofL has a better overall academic standing than UC? Really?)"

UC was picked for one reason. We had Bob Huggins and a powerhouse basketball program and we also happened to have a football team. Bob Goin and Nancy Z and our improving facilities, etc. were nice add-ons, but your post left out the #1 reason and he is coaching against us tonight. All other reasons and factors are bogus BS. This has been well documented, reported, written about, discussed, etc. and everyone, except apparently you (and Jeffto), knows why we are in the Big East. But, other than that, your post was well written. Thank you for your contribution.


This is not accurate at all, it is more like the wishful thinking of a BH fan who has decided to ignore all of the facts. The fact is Mike Tranghese, the Big East Commissioner at the time, has stated UC got in because of Nancy Zimpher and Bob Goin, end of story. UC has a football team, without one UC would have not been considered. Basketball had nothing to do with UC getting in. South Florida got in, what great basketball tradition do they have, DePaul got in, what great basketball team have they had since 1992. Only the President's of the Big East schools got to vote on UC 's admission. The AD's did not get to vote, the coaches did not get to vote. Nancy Z wowed the President's at the interview and that is what got UC the yes votes from those Presidents. If Tony Yates had still been the coach and UC had not gone to the NCAA tourney since 1977, UC would still be in the Big East today because of Nancy Z and Bob Goin. I challenge you to find one published statement from the Big East Commissioner or any Big East President mentioning BH as a reason UC got in. Do not even bother looking because it does not exist.

[London 'Cat]

Thabeet did not come to UC because he had no teammates to play with. I don't remember the exact timing of his recruitment, but there were few, if any, recruits signed for what would have been Thabeet's freshman year. And the ones that were signed were not exactly the type of recruits Thabeet would expect to play with. No offense to those guys, as they gave their best efforts while here and I thank them for that. But they were likely not the players Thabeet would choose to play with.

[levydl]

Levydl, I can't give Mick full credit for coming from nothing since he is partially responsible for us having nothing...

1.) Turned away Devan Downey
2.) Recruited ineligible Hernol Hall
3.) Recruited ineligible Adam H.
4.) Didn't close the deal on Thabeet

1., 2., and 3. are definitely his fault. 4 may be a result of spending too much time on 2 and 3 or Thabeet seeing a playing time issue competing with Hall and Adam H...who knows. But, we could have been a vastly different team and our recovery could have been light years faster had he not done #1. I'd love to see where we would be this year with Downey as a senior. I suspect tonight's game would be meaningless and we would just be playing for a seed. Vaughn might be averaging 25 pts. a game with everyone focusing on stopping Downey's penetration.

No, Cronin's not responsible for us having nothing. I'm talking about what he started with. What was here when he arrived. He did not start with Hall or Adam H. or Thabeet, he recruited them once he got here. Had Hall been eligible and Thabeet come here (and even if Adam got his first year), Cronin's accomplishments with this program would most likely have been all the more remarkable.

It's been debated over and over what happened with Downey. I wish he would have stayed, but I don't know what went down with all that and I don't think anyone but Cronin and Downey really knows the truth.

Nonetheless, had he stayed, Cronin still would have started with Ced McGowan and Devan Downey, plus Ron Allen and Brandon Miller. It still would have been a long climb back, with no postseason or the CBI or NIT for a few years. ****, South Carolina didn't make the NCAA last year with Devan Downey leading the way, and may very well be NIT bound this year as well.

[Mick's Da Man]

UC was picked for one reason. We had Bob Huggins and a powerhouse basketball program and we also happened to have a football team. Bob Goin and Nancy Z and our improving facilities, etc. were nice add-ons, but your post left out the #1 reason and he is coaching against us tonight. All other reasons and factors are bogus BS. This has been well documented, reported, written about, discussed, etc. and everyone, except apparently you (and Jeffto), knows why we are in the Big East. But, other than that, your post was well written. Thank you for your contribution.


Well since you felt the need to slam Richard, which by the way, was an outstanding fact-based post.........you need to be slapped around a bit.

Huggins had nothing to do with going to the Big East. UC's academics and Bob Goin had more to do with it than anything. Yes, UC had b-ball tradition.

You are so clueless. Richard is a prominent and respected poster on this board.

Nobody will ever say the same about you. Your garbage should have been taken out a long time ago, but it continues to pile up and stink.

[levydl]

Yes, his initial reason for leaving was because Andy didn't get the job. If he spent a few weeks getting to know Mick and what he stood for, and then he decided that this is the place for him, then he is telling you that he is committed once again. Why would he have initially been committed to an unknown coach coming in. Yes, I would take him back in a heartbeat. And in hindsight...my God....he would have made a world of difference.

As to Thabeet, just look back in the recruiting archives on this sight. His high school coach thought he was within hours of signing with us. He thought it was a done deal. He was a very raw player. Hernol Hall supposedly was more polished. I definitely could see Thabeet thinking about playing time. Mick built Hall up pretty big when he landed him.

If you'd looked back at the archives, you'd know that Thabeet visited UC 5/18-19/2006, and verballed to UConn 6/2/2006, while Hall visited UC 6/16/2006 and verballed on 7/2/06. Thabeet was Cronin's top target. Come on, Longtimer, you're reaching.

[Mick's Da Man]

Levydl, I can't give Mick full credit for coming from nothing since he is partially responsible for us having nothing...

1.) Turned away Devan Downey
2.) Recruited ineligible Hernol Hall
3.) Recruited ineligible Adam H.
4.) Didn't close the deal on Thabeet

1., 2., and 3. are definitely his fault. 4 may be a result of spending too much time on 2 and 3 or Thabeet seeing a playing time issue competing with Hall and Adam H...who knows. But, we could have been a vastly different team and our recovery could have been light years faster had he not done #1. I'd love to see where we would be this year with Downey as a senior. I suspect tonight's game would be meaningless and we would just be playing for a seed. Vaughn might be averaging 25 pts. a game with everyone focusing on stopping Downey's penetration.

Comical. Everything is so easy in your world. But in the real world, devestated programs lose players like Downey and don't get players like Thabeet. The Downey situation remains questionable to this day. He chose to leave, end of story.

As for Hall, he was recruited by like 5 or 6 other top teams in the country. I guess those coaches should get slammed for not closing the deal, huh?

As for Adam H., he got screwed by the NCAA, period.

Same for Riek.

Why would Thabeet come here? UC or UConn. Which program was in good shape and which program was decimated?

Why don't you put the blame where it really deserves to be put............blame the guy that's getting honored tonight and his drinking problem and need to puke out his car in Fairfax.

Nah, we can't do that. The guy is God. God can do anything he wants, even if it's wrong. Hmmmmm.

Man, your lies are annoying.

[Mick's Da Man]

Come on....if you want to go back 4 years and look up all the articles and try to find tapes of sports shows, be my guest. We all know why we are in the Big East. Believe what you want. 98% of our fans know the truth. Richard K didn't cite any quotes and sources. That was all his opinions. They sounded good, but who knows.

No. You cite some sources, articles, tapes, videos. I want you to find it (even though it doesn't exist). The burden is on you to prove what you say.

Amazing how you post a bunch of lies and many of us come to correct you, yet you say 98% of our fans know the truth???????????

Outrageous that you continue to get away with these lies and slander.

[LongTimer]

This is not accurate at all, it is more like the wishful thinking of a BH fan who has decided to ignore all of the facts. The fact is Mike Tranghese, the Big East Commissioner at the time, has stated UC got in because of Nancy Zimpher and Bob Goin, end of story. UC has a football team, without one UC would have not been considered. Basketball had nothing to do with UC getting in. South Florida got in, what great basketball tradition do they have, DePaul got in, what great basketball team have they had since 1992. Only the President's of the Big East schools got to vote on UC 's admission. The AD's did not get to vote, the coaches did not get to vote. Nancy Z wowed the President's at the interview and that is what got UC the yes votes from those Presidents. If Tony Yates had still been the coach and UC had not gone to the NCAA tourney since 1977, UC would still be in the Big East today because of Nancy Z and Bob Goin. I challenge you to find one published statement from the Big East Commissioner or any Big East President mentioning BH as a reason UC got in. Do not even bother looking because it does not exist.


Ralph, I have pledged a new era of peace and tranquility with you. This is a wonderful post and as usual, you are spot on. Thank you for the education. I knew that our top 10 basketball program had nothing to do with us being attractive to the Big East. I absolutely knew that Nancy wore those fishnet stockings to that interview and did in fact "WOW" them. After seeing that, it was a done deal. You are a wonderful supporter of Bearcat Basketball and we should all be thankful to have you bringing your knowledge to this forum. Thank you for this post and thank you for correcting me. I know that I make a mistake every 200 posts or so, but I know that you will correct me when I do. Once again, thanks for your long time support of this program and remember....wear gloves tonight....that will prevent bruising from excessive applause for Huggs! :cool:

[LongTimer]

Well since you felt the need to slam Richard, which by the way, was an outstanding fact-based post.........you need to be slapped around a bit.

Huggins had nothing to do with going to the Big East. UC's academics and Bob Goin had more to do with it than anything. Yes, UC had b-ball tradition.

You are so clueless. Richard is a prominent and respected poster on this board.

Nobody will ever say the same about you. Your garbage should have been taken out a long time ago, but it continues to pile up and stink.

lol....another poster that brings nothing to the game, except his attempt at humor and personal attacks. He and jeffto are running neck and neck for the #1 ranking on clueless attacking posts.

I saw no quotes or links or anything else in his post.....just his words. Good for Richard if he is well respected and prominent. I'm glad he has fallen out on the opposite end of the respect scale from where you hang out.

[LongTimer]

If you'd looked back at the archives, you'd know that Thabeet visited UC 5/18-19/2006, and verballed to UConn 6/2/2006, while Hall visited UC 6/16/2006 and verballed on 7/2/06. Thabeet was Cronin's top target. Come on, Longtimer, you're reaching.

Come on levydl, don't pull out the technicalities on me. If you don't believe me, ask Catsareback!

[LongTimer]

No. You cite some sources, articles, tapes, videos. I want you to find it (even though it doesn't exist). The burden is on you to prove what you say.

Amazing how you post a bunch of lies and many of us come to correct you, yet you say 98% of our fans know the truth???????????

Outrageous that you continue to get away with these lies and slander.

I have a big game to attend tonight. Since you don't go to the games, why don't you do it for me. I've been attending games and supporting the team for 46 years. You sit at home and type on forums and act like an ***** doing it. I'll stand by my statement, because I know it is true.

[catsfan32]

ha you can't just say the levydl is pulling out the technicalities when he proves you wrong, you made a statement that wasn't true and he simply proved that what you stated was wrong. You may have attended games for 46 years, but that sure as heck doesnt mean you know what your talking about.

[Cats4Ever]

Bob Huggins was the carrot Bob Goin dangled in front of the Big East committee. Nancy came in and said enough to convince the BE that UC was an academic player too. She was used to present the academic side.

To say Huggins was not the diamond in UC's sports crown is ignorant.

And oh-by-the-way, there is a big game tonight UC must win or say goodbye to any NCAA tourney hope and hello to a 4 year absence from the big dance.

[LongTimer]

ha you can't just say the levydl is pulling out the technicalities when he proves you wrong, you made a statement that wasn't true and he simply proved that what you stated was wrong. You may have attended games for 46 years, but that sure as heck doesnt mean you know what your talking about.

Once again catsfan, you are late to the party. It was an inside joke with levydl. Only he would understand. Anyway, the Thabeet issue was my 4th most important point in the argument and what levydl said does not disprove that point. However, it may disprove it and it might also lessen the importance of the point. He still was recruiting all 3 and nobody knows if recruiting Hall and Adam H used up any time that he could have put to use closing the deal on Thabeet.

[ralph1950]

Bob Huggins was the carrot Bob Goin dangled in front of the Big East committee. Nancy came in and said enough to convince the BE that UC was an academic player too. She was used to present the academic side.

To say Huggins was not the diamond in UC's sports crown is ignorant.

And oh-by-the-way, there is a big game tonight UC must win or say goodbye to any NCAA tourney hope and hello to a 4 year absence from the big dance.

It is not that big of a game tonight, the big game is Sunday, lose to Syracuse and the NCAA Tourney hopes are gonzo even if UC wins the other 3 remaining games.

[jeffto]

Facts: "The Big East finalized its expansion plan Tuesday, inviting five schools to help rebuild the conference after defections of three key schools to the ACC.

Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida will join the league in 2005-06, while Marquette and DePaul will join for all sports except football.

"It's a very exciting day in the history of the Big East. We are thrilled to be joined by five great institutions," Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese said.

The Big East acted after losing football powerhouses Miami and Virginia Tech, as well as Boston College, to the ACC earlier this year. The conference needed to make three additions for football to maintain its Division I-A status.

The other football schools in the league will be Connecticut, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse and West Virginia.

Conference officials hope the new league will be attractive enough to keep its automatic berth in the Bowl Championship Series. The current BCS contract expires after the 2006 bowls and negotiations for the new contract will begin in a few months.

The expansion also gives the Big East one of the most powerful basketball conferences." AP Nov 4 2003

The word also indicates to me that BBball was not the primary driver of the decision.

Your turn LongTimer. Put up or shut up.

[Jose_Jalapeno_on_a_Stick]

It is not that big of a game tonight, the big game is Sunday, lose to Syracuse and the NCAA Tourney hopes are gonzo even if UC wins the other 3 remaining games.

Spot on Ralph...............

[jkwuc89]

This thread is now off topic and is now closed.