Life Expectancy of 16 team Beast?

[jcraigmoore]

I believe the 16 team Beast basketball conference will have a short shelf life if the NCAA continues to hold it to just 8 teams making the dance yearly. I'm not suggesting that this year the league deserves more than 8, but seeding brackets would tend to keep the number at 8. With other conferences getting a greater percentage of their leagues into the dance, the largess of the Beast only hurts it. Assuming the Seton Halls, St. John's, USF, Rutgers and Depaul stay down, that leaves 11 programs with what I believe are high NCAA expectations. How long will three of these elite programs (top 11) agree to stay together to continually fight to get one of the coveted 8 slots in the NCAA while other smaller numbered conferences get a higher percentage of their teams in the field? The forums thoughts?

[Forsure21]

IMO, we need to get rid of St. Johns, Seton Hall, Depaul, Providence and Villanova. That will leave us at 11 schools. We then invite Memphis as a football and basketball.

THat would give us a 12 man league with Cincy, ND, Uconn, Memphis, Syracuse, Rutgers, South Florida, Pitt,Louisville,Georgetown, West Virginia, and Marquette.

Either way I think we need to drop some these non football schools. How were those schools ever invited into the confrence over UC anyway?

[bearcatbret]

I am not sure if anything will be done about it. During the expansion, the b-ball only schools from CUSA were added to assure that the non-football schools had an equal vote to the football schools. Your assumption is that one or two may leave. It would have to be an equal number of football and non-football teams. Also, keep in mind that Depaul and St. Johns are rich in basketball history and may come back at some time.

I agree that the Big-10 does not deserve 7 teams this year and the PAC-10 may only deserve 3 teams, while the SEC probably only deserves 3 teams. The bracket rules do not dismiss that teams are not in the same bracket. I believe that the rules state that when possible teams from the same conference will be in different regions. Once four teams has been exceeded then teams from the same conference shall be opposite sides of the regional bracket. If more than 9 teams are in from a single conference then they are arranged with a much separation as possible. But the selection committee may not want to test it. Also, if you recall, all of the talking heads in preseason were saying that the BEast would have 9 teams in but that did not include the likes of UC but rather Gtown and ND. IF GTown and ND did not slide into the craper, the BEast may likely have 9 teams.

[Mick's Da Man]

IMO, we need to get rid of St. Johns, Seton Hall, Depaul, Providence and Villanova. That will leave us at 11 schools. We then invite Memphis as a football and basketball.

THat would give us a 12 man league with Cincy, ND, Uconn, Memphis, Syracuse, Rutgers, South Florida, Pitt,Louisville,Georgetown, West Virginia, and Marquette.

Either way I think we need to drop some these non football schools. How were those schools ever invited into the confrence over UC anyway?

Doesn't work that way. If it divides, it will be football schools going one way and b-ball only schools going the other way.

Retain the name Big East:
St. Johns
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Villanova
Marquette
Providence
Depaul
ADD.........
Xavier
Dayton
UMass?

Create new football/bball conference:
UConn
Pitt
West Virginia
South Florida
Louisville
Cincinnati
Syracuse
Rutgers
ADD
Memphis (both sports)
Temple (both sports)
Notre Dame (b-ball only)

Notre Dame may want to stay with the other conference knowing they are a b-ball only conference and won't pressure them to join some kind of football conference.

The football conference has more revenue due to having both sports. Eventually the other conference falls a notch due to lost revenue.

The addition of Memphis makes the second conference the better b-ball conference. Temple surely doesn't hurt b-ball and it will raise their recruiting. They've always played anyone anywhere anytime.

[jeffto]

IMO, we need to get rid of St. Johns, Seton Hall, Depaul, Providence and Villanova. That will leave us at 11 schools. We then invite Memphis as a football and basketball.

THat would give us a 12 man league with Cincy, ND, Uconn, Memphis, Syracuse, Rutgers, South Florida, Pitt,Louisville,Georgetown, West Virginia, and Marquette.

Either way I think we need to drop some these non football schools. How were those schools ever invited into the confrence over UC anyway?Some of these schools were founding members of the conference. I can't see them being booted out.

I do think we need to give ND an ultimatum - join the football conference or hit the road.

[jcraigmoore]

Providence has the leagues headquarters and with Dave Gavitt the leagues founder still around I'd almost bet there would be major upheaval if Providence got the axe as well as Nova. Possibility of a football, non-football split might occur. It is a shame USF and Rutgers, two football schools are in the bottom four.

[Mick's Da Man]

But Providence and 'Nova get to keep the Big East name.

[jeffto]

It is a shame USF and Rutgers, two football schools are in the bottom four.That's not that unusual in a lot of conferences. Big football schools often have weaker BBall teams (Penn State - most years). Florida and UC are the exceptions. :D

[milfordcats]

That's not that unusual in a lot of conferences. Big football schools often have weaker BBall teams (Penn State - most years). Florida and UC are the exceptions. :D

And Oklahoma.

asdfasdfawer

[bearcated]

It has long been my opinion that the BE as currently constituted is too large and unworkable. 16 teams and an 18 game schedule is just too much. There is no room for meaningful home and home rivalry games.

If you break up the BE into FB and non-FB schools (I'm assuming ND goes the non-FB route), you still have the benefit of a good FB league, and it's still a very good BB league.

[BearcatRob33]

And Oklahoma.

asdfasdfawer

And Louisville..... .

[jcraigmoore]

Thanks to all who have replied. How about the second part of the question? How long before the "natives" get restless with not making the dance? Syracuse got snubbed once, UC once, will it take one of the really big boys of the conference to get snubbed once for something to happen? My inclination is yes. Georgetown and ND might be in that situation this year. I don't believe ND would really care since they get the best of all worlds with their Beast deal and NBC. Georgetown would be otherwise since it has lower division football and depends on NCAA payout to fund other sports.

[coach]

as crazy as it sounds, the meltdown of the economy is likely to be around for awhile and college sports at some point will likely take a haircut unless they chase the dollar. a lot of the non football schools likely would not want to get out of such a heavily covered conference. forget about the ncaa tournament implications.

[Doss]

ND only if in all sports and that will not happen.
Temple was kicked out of Beast FB. Are they ready to step up or what about UCF?

Doesn't work that way. If it divides, it will be football schools going one way and b-ball only schools going the other way.

Retain the name Big East:
St. Johns
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Villanova
Marquette
Providence
Depaul
ADD.........
Xavier
Dayton
UMass?

Create new football/bball conference:
UConn
Pitt
West Virginia
South Florida
Louisville
Cincinnati
Syracuse
Rutgers
ADD
Memphis (both sports)
Temple (both sports)
Notre Dame (b-ball only)

Notre Dame may want to stay with the other conference knowing they are a b-ball only conference and won't pressure them to join some kind of football conference.

The football conference has more revenue due to having both sports. Eventually the other conference falls a notch due to lost revenue.

The addition of Memphis makes the second conference the better b-ball conference. Temple surely doesn't hurt b-ball and it will raise their recruiting. They've always played anyone anywhere anytime.

[London 'Cat]

One problem with dividing the conference is it results in two conferences that are weaker than the current composition. I agree that ND should get the boot unless it joins in football. The current composition does seem to limit the number of teams that can qualify for the NCAA tournament each year. 16 teams is a huge number, IMO. The fact is that there are really only eight teams in the conference worthy of a NCAA bid, maybe nine, this year. I know that may be an unpopular statement, but I think it's true.

[STKohls]

Some of these schools were founding members of the conference. I can't see them being booted out.

I do think we need to give ND an ultimatum - join the football conference or hit the road.

Right on both counts.

Notre Dame reaps all the rewards for being in a top conference: Great competition, recruiting avenues to the East, ready opponents for all their sports, and lots of conference income. They withhold the most important thing they could bring to the Big East - A Nationally recognized, elite Football Program.

Notre Dame needs to be given a choice: Either you're in the conference, or you're not. If they think their Football team is so unique that they're willing to let the rest of their sports suffer because of it, that's their call. They need to be forced to make that decision though.

[slimm]

Right on both counts.

Notre Dame reaps all the rewards for being in a top conference: Great competition, recruiting avenues to the East, ready opponents for all their sports, and lots of conference income. They withhold the most important thing they could bring to the Big East - A Nationally recognized, elite Football Program.

Notre Dame needs to be given a choice: Either you're in the conference, or you're not. If they think their Football team is so unique that they're willing to let the rest of their sports suffer because of it, that's their call. They need to be forced to make that decision though.

If the BE football teams keep improving, as they have, and ND continues to wallow in mediocrity, that decision will come sooner than later for the Irish
________
VAPIR NO2 VAPORIZER REVIEWS (http://www.vaporizers.net/)

[BearcatAlum1]

Some of these schools were founding members of the conference. I can't see them being booted out.

I do think we need to give ND an ultimatum - join the football conference or hit the road.

No way in he!! could we boot any of the founding members. Personally, I find it hilarious that we (UC fans/students/alums/etc) are discussing booting others from the BigEast, condsidering we were all overjoyed that they allowed us in the conference in the first place.

I do agree that the 16 team league is brutal. It's near impossible to wade throught the currents at the bottom of the league to the top. Jimmy C at Uconn did it, but it still took him approx 20 years to get an NCAA title.

On somewhat of a side note, what is the problem with only playing 15 conference games? This would allow every team to play each team once. Each team would alternate who is home team every other year. This would also allow 3 more non-conference games, in turn, allowing for more "cupcake" wins or perhaps playing more non-conference big dogs, ala Memphis.

Alum1

[BearcatMax54]

No way in he!! could we boot any of the founding members. Personally, I find it hilarious that we (UC fans/students/alums/etc) are discussing booting others from the BigEast, condsidering we were all overjoyed that they allowed us in the conference in the first place.

I do agree that the 16 team league is brutal. It's near impossible to wade throught the currents at the bottom of the league to the top. Jimmy C at Uconn did it, but it still took him approx 20 years to get an NCAA title.

On somewhat of a side note, what is the problem with only playing 15 conference games? This would allow every team to play each team once. Each team would alternate who is home team every other year. This would also allow 3 more non-conference games, in turn, allowing for more "cupcake" wins or perhaps playing more non-conference big dogs, ala Memphis.

Alum1

I like this idea. I don't think anyone should be removed from the conference.

[Mick's Da Man]

I would think Seton Hall, Providence, St. Johns, Rutgers, etc.........would be the ones thinking about bolting. They can have decent teams that would do well in other conferences, but struggle in the Big East. Why deal with that? If they make the NCAA Tournament out of another conference, it results in big bucks doesn't it?

[BearcatAlum1]

I would think Seton Hall, Providence, St. Johns, Rutgers, etc.........would be the ones thinking about bolting. They can have decent teams that would do well in other conferences, but struggle in the Big East. Why deal with that? If they make the NCAA Tournament out of another conference, it results in big bucks doesn't it?

And, who would we beat?????? haha. kidding, kidding.

[RedRocker]

Doesn't work that way. If it divides, it will be football schools going one way and b-ball only schools going the other way.

Retain the name Big East:
St. Johns
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Villanova
Marquette
Providence
Depaul
ADD.........
Xavier
Dayton
UMass?

Create new football/bball conference:
UConn
Pitt
West Virginia
South Florida
Louisville
Cincinnati
Syracuse
Rutgers
ADD
Memphis (both sports)
Temple (both sports)
Notre Dame (b-ball only)

Notre Dame may want to stay with the other conference knowing they are a b-ball only conference and won't pressure them to join some kind of football conference.

The football conference has more revenue due to having both sports. Eventually the other conference falls a notch due to lost revenue.

The addition of Memphis makes the second conference the better b-ball conference. Temple surely doesn't hurt b-ball and it will raise their recruiting. They've always played anyone anywhere anytime.

I do think push will come to shove some day in this league. I like the lineup for both, but I'd tell ND to cr@p or get off the pot. You're in or you're out. They aren't that special anymore. If they're in, I'd look to add maybe UCF which would create a natural rivalry for USF. New FB stadium and a big enrollment helps too. UNCC has talked about adding FB at some point too.