Some perspective

[jkwuc89]

This is not an attempt to justify a loss to lowly South Florida because frankly, a team fighting for its tournament life should not lose a game like that. But, UC is not alone when it comes to bad losses. Look at yesterday's results:

Kentucky at home on Senior Night with an NCAA bid on the line loses to last place Georgia who was without a win on the road and had lost its road games by an average of 18 point a game

Kansas goes on the road and gets whacked by 2nd from the bottom Texas Tech.

[Kindog202]

This is not an attempt to justify a loss to lowly South Florida because frankly, a team fighting for its tournament life should not lose a game like that. But, UC is not alone when it comes to bad losses. Look at yesterday's results:

Kentucky at home on Senior Night with an NCAA bid on the line loses to last place Georgia who was without a win on the road and had lost its road games by an average of 18 point a game

Kansas goes on the road and gets whacked by 2nd from the bottom Texas Tech.

Agree 100% - I bet it would be fun to read some of the UK boards this morning;)

[loshow22]

I see your point and a lot of teams have a loss or two that really they shouldn't. However, when you are fighting for NCAA consideration you CAN'T have a let down like we did. It is very damaging this late in the season for a team like UC.

[jkwuc89]

Agree 100% - I bet it would be fun to read some of the UK boards this morning;)

I went over to CatsPause.com to see how their fans react to a bad loss and I was stricken by the similarity between threads there and threads here. One perfect example:

"If Tubby had not been ran off"

There are also lots of threads defending their coach.

I also read that after yesterday's game, fans booed the team off the floor and apparently threw bottles at the coach.

[carolinacatfan]

The loss to USF would not be so glaring if not for the lack of impressive wins. They have one quality win (WV) one good win (UNLV-possible tourney team) and a few debatable good wins (UAB/GTOWN twice). The majority of bubble teams being mentioned (not UK) have at least a few wins against NCAA tourney teams. If they had beaten a CUSE and maybe Providence once this loss would be a non factor as long as they bounce back and beat Seton Hall.

Quality wins will always outweigh bad losses. Everyone short of the top 5-8 teams show they can lose to bottom feeders during the year but not everyone shows they can compete with the elite and UC has not done that.

Let's hope they can right the ship and make a run in the NIT, and enjoy it for what it is.

[ME80]

I see your point and a lot of teams have a loss or two that really they shouldn't. However, when you are fighting for NCAA consideration you CAN'T have a let down like we did. It is very damaging this late in the season for a team like UC.

And that is exactly the point that I think Keith was making. We all live in somewhat of a bubble and believe that our team should be perfect. We say we should not lose to a team like SF and that is a correct statement. However, when we then make the statement "this does not happen to any other team so our coach must suck" that is where everyone starts losing perspective.

[cincycpaw]

This is not an attempt to justify a loss to lowly South Florida because frankly, a team fighting for its tournament life should not lose a game like that. But, UC is not alone when it comes to bad losses. Look at yesterday's results:

Kentucky at home on Senior Night with an NCAA bid on the line loses to last place Georgia who was without a win on the road and had lost its road games by an average of 18 point a game

Kansas goes on the road and gets whacked by 2nd from the bottom Texas Tech.


Why is this in the BEARCAT basketball forum? ;)

You simply cannot have any horrible losses when you don't have any terrific wins.

[LongTimer]

I went over to CatsPause.com to see how their fans react to a bad loss and I was stricken by the similarity between threads there and threads here. One perfect example:

"If Tubby had not been ran off"

There are also lots of threads defending their coach.

I also read that after yesterday's game, fans booed the team off the floor and apparently threw bottles at the coach.

The difference is that their moderators probably don't close the threads that talk about Tubby.

[LongTimer]

This is not an attempt to justify a loss to lowly South Florida because frankly, a team fighting for its tournament life should not lose a game like that. But, UC is not alone when it comes to bad losses. Look at yesterday's results:

Kentucky at home on Senior Night with an NCAA bid on the line loses to last place Georgia who was without a win on the road and had lost its road games by an average of 18 point a game

Kansas goes on the road and gets whacked by 2nd from the bottom Texas Tech.

Another difference is that this is two consecutive years now that we have incurred the same collapse at tournament time. We have a little more justification to be pissed.

[ralph1950]

Another difference is that this is two consecutive years now that we have incurred the same collapse at tournament time. We have a little more justification to be pissed.

UC is playing in the NCAA Tournament, their first game is Tuesday, probably against DePaul.

[bearcatbret]

Teams like Kentucky and Kansas will get in just because of their names. UC has lost it's image and must prove that they belong. The USF loss was not just a horrible one, it was the way that they lost. Absolutely zero defense in the second half and no offensive strategy or execution. When you are shooting 26 percent as a team from 3-land, you have to take it inside. They are not going to the free throw line because they do nothing but shoot 3s. Those shots are there all game long you might as well pass or slash to the inside.

[Mick's Da Man]

Another difference is that this is two consecutive years now that we have incurred the same collapse at tournament time. We have a little more justification to be pissed.

.......yeah, in the third year of a 4 to 5 year rebuilding project.

Some people have no patience or understanding of circumstances.

Glad the rest of us have a grip on things.

[beeman7467]

UC is playing in the NCAA Tournament, their first game is Tuesday, probably against DePaul.

I missed this one. From what I understand Jim Nantz is doing the game for CBS. Great to be back in the tournament after such a long hiatus.

[Mick's Da Man]

I missed this one. From what I understand Jim Nantz is doing the game for CBS. Great to be back in the tournament after such a long hiatus.

Essentially he's right for almost all at-large teams. You can do some serious damage and play your way in with a good showing. Syracuse did it a couple of years ago and there are plenty of other good examples I can't think of right now.

If we lose in the first round of the BE tournament, we don't deserve the NCAA's anyway.

[behrlezt]

Im really not trying to be negative because i would love to see the Cats in the big dance but with that said....there is probably ZERO chance of the Cats making the tournament! I know you guys want to keep your hopes alive but we are playing the worst basketball in the BEAST right now....thoughts?

[bearcatmark]

Teams like Kentucky and Kansas will get in just because of their names. UC has lost it's image and must prove that they belong. The USF loss was not just a horrible one, it was the way that they lost. Absolutely zero defense in the second half and no offensive strategy or execution. When you are shooting 26 percent as a team from 3-land, you have to take it inside. They are not going to the free throw line because they do nothing but shoot 3s. Those shots are there all game long you might as well pass or slash to the inside.

Kansas will get a top 4 seed because they earned it.

I think Kentucky's chances of getting in are fading fast. They need to make a run in the SEC tournament.

[catsfan32]

^kentucky sounds a lot like UC, if we make a deep run in the tourney, win three and play the semifinal tough, we have a good chance of getting in. Were not completely out of it fellas, there's always a chance with the BET to prove you belong, besides we have one bad loss, we just have to make up for it with two great wins (WVU, UL/PITT/UCONN). I for one will still hold out on some hope that all is not lost! Anything is possible, we def need big mike back though because with him we have proven we can play with the best (losses by 9 to both UL and UCONN)

[bearcatbret]

Which number 1 seed would you rather play if we get past WVU? I think that I would not want to see Pitt or UConn. But without guard play, do we have a realistic chance to beat any of them? Can we beat a decent WVU team twice in the same season?

[catsfan32]

^i def think we can beat WVU with Mike Williams, we proved we can do it without him, also i would def rather see UL, i think we match up with them the best and could quite possibly pull off the upset, if not UL then UCONN, i think we match up better with them then we do Pitt, not to mention we played them when they had Dyson, now they are without him(even without him they are really really good) But if we take down three in the conf tourney that at least have to look at us pretty hard! At this point thats all we can ask for short of the BET championship!

[London 'Cat]

UK and Ku losing only emphasize the importance of this game and the opportunity the 'Cats missed. They had a chance to distinguish themselves from the other teams that are/were on the bubble. They failed to capitalize.

The loss to USF was inexcusable in my opinion. With a chance to earn an NCAA bid, having come off such a poor performance against Syracuse and playing a team in USF that has only won 8 games all season long, the 'Cats should have been 100% focused and ready to play. They were not.

My concern is the repeat of the end-of-season collapse from last year. And, in both years, the collapse began when Cronin started clamoring about an NCAA bid. It makes me wonder if the coaching staff lost focus once that talk began.

[LongTimer]

.......yeah, in the third year of a 4 to 5 year rebuilding project.

Some people have no patience or understanding of circumstances.

Glad the rest of us have a grip on things.

I can only imagine what you have a grip on....certainly isn't basketball. :D

[Bearcat John 69]

^kentucky sounds a lot like UC, if we make a deep run in the tourney, win three and play the semifinal tough, we have a good chance of getting in. Were not completely out of it fellas, there's always a chance with the BET to prove you belong, besides we have one bad loss, we just have to make up for it with two great wins (WVU, UL/PITT/UCONN). I for one will still hold out on some hope that all is not lost! Anything is possible, we def need big mike back though because with him we have proven we can play with the best (losses by 9 to both UL and UCONN)

it's alot harder to beat big east teams than sec teams this year though.
and that's why it kills me uk currently is viewed as a more likely tourney team. they r less deserving than uc, and uc isn't deserving right now, so how can uk be in? how bout it looneyardi!!

[cincycpaw]

it's alot harder to beat big east teams than sec teams this year though.
and that's why it kills me uk currently is viewed as a more likely tourney team. they r less deserving than uc, and uc isn't deserving right now, so how can uk be in? how bout it looneyardi!!

On the Bubble Watch on ESPN...both CIncy and UK are teams that they say are no longer under consideration for an at-large (currently of course). I'd have to agree with them.

[catsfan32]

^i know john, it makes absolutely no sense and lunardi is a hack in my opinion!

[catsfan32]

Cincy is still listed under the cbs bubble watch, and honestly i think that bubble watch is much better than the homer that is espn's

[bearcatbret]

The bubble teams are so weak this year that there could be a lot to choose from. Heck, the selection committee may decide to let in one "Cinderella" team from a mid-major than to take a team from a Major conference that has not earned it. Do not be surprised with some questionable teams after selection Sunday.

[Forsure21]

The bubble teams are so weak this year that there could be a lot to choose from. Heck, the selection committee may decide to let in one "Cinderella" team from a mid-major than to take a team from a Major conference that has not earned it. Do not be surprised with some questionable teams after selection Sunday.

I've got a feeling that there is going to be some big surprises up on the screen. Some shockers like Air Force who a few years ago didn't even watch the show as a team because they didn't expect at all to get in.

[stevedodds]

^i know john, it makes absolutely no sense and lunardi is a hack in my opinion!

You do realize that Lunardi doesn't actually pick the teams that go to the Dance, right? And you do realize that he is typically extremely accurate, right? Some people and their obsession with Lunardi..sheesh.

[Bearcat_DF]

Quality wins will always outweigh bad losses. Everyone short of the top 5-8 teams show they can lose to bottom feeders during the year but not everyone shows they can compete with the elite and UC has not done that.


Carolinacat - great point. At first, I wasn't so sure about it, but then I went to Warren Nolan's Nitty Gritty report - http://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2009/nitty

In the top 10 - 3 teams have lost to teams with RPI between 101-200 (Kansas has 2!)
In the next 10 - there are 5 teams (Butler has a loss to a team 200+)
In the next 10 - there are 3 teams
In the next 10 - there are 6 team (including Dayton w 3 and Siena w 2)

Thanx for the perspective.

[Bearcat_DF]

This is not an attempt to justify a loss to lowly South Florida because frankly, a team fighting for its tournament life should not lose a game like that. But, UC is not alone when it comes to bad losses. Look at yesterday's results:

Kentucky at home on Senior Night with an NCAA bid on the line loses to last place Georgia who was without a win on the road and had lost its road games by an average of 18 point a game

Kansas goes on the road and gets whacked by 2nd from the bottom Texas Tech.

Kansas and Kentucky's resumes are very different.
Kansas is a lock; Kentucky has fallen out of consideration.
If we are trying to take solace in comparing ourselves to UK, that does nothing for me. What are we saying? Hey, we aren't as bad as that lousy team!?

A better comparison would be with Dayton - they just lost to St. Louis and Rhode Island, last month they lost to Charlotte - all on the road. Still, they have beaten Marquette, Xavier and Auburn.

Given their seasons, it is hard to see how UC makes a case better than UD?

[the_dude]

You do realize that Lunardi doesn't actually pick the teams that go to the Dance, right? And you do realize that he is typically extremely accurate, right? Some people and their obsession with Lunardi..sheesh.

obsessed? I just checked and half of your posts in the last few weeks have been Lunardi related. I'm just sayin....

[catsfan32]

both South Carolina and Providence went down hard tonight, looks like we get our rematch against providence, i for one am looking forward to that!

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

The difference is that their moderators probably don't close the threads that talk about Tubby.

TCP mods ENCOURAGE such threads.

Different situations altogether.

[catsfan32]

^steve i hope your kidding, lunardi picks the teams and is correct a couple hours before the selection show. You are joking if you think his predictions right now and for that matter a week earlier carry any weight. So much can happen, so as of right now, his opinion is just that, an opinion, when we are a few hours before the selection then and only then will i consider his opinion to be meaningful

[Lobot]

Ok everybody off the Lunardi topic please. This has been discussed at length in other threads.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Kentucky and Cincinnati will have identical records (19-12) later today.

If each goes 1-1 in conference tourney, they will be 20-13 next week.

They may be paired up in NIT play IF that happens.

[ralph1950]

Kentucky and Cincinnati will have identical records (19-12) later today.

If each goes 1-1 in conference tourney, they will be 20-13 next week.

They may be paired up in NIT play IF that happens.

Not true as the NIT has been seeded for at least the last 4 years. If UC and UK are both say # 2 seeds they would not meet until the Final 4 at Madison Square Garden. The NIT has 4 brackets with teams seeded 1 to 8 in each bracket.

[jeffto]

If we lose in the first round of the BE tournament, we don't deserve the NCAA's anyway.I'm not sure we would deserve the NIT at that point.

We've improved our conference record by one game (if we can hold on against SH). We've improved OOC but against a schedule ranking 100 places lower than last year. I would say the NIT is not a slam-dunk.

[Kindog202]

Listening on the radio - I don't think Chuck thinks too highly of Hazell.

[jeffto]

Not true as the NIT has been seeded for at least the last 4 years. If UC and UK are both say # 2 seeds they would not meet until the Final 4 at Madison Square Garden. The NIT has 4 brackets with teams seeded 1 to 8 in each bracket.#2 Seed. Are you crazy? We'll be lucky to get in. Our case is not that much better than last year.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Not true as the NIT has been seeded for at least the last 4 years. If UC and UK are both say # 2 seeds they would not meet until the Final 4 at Madison Square Garden. The NIT has 4 brackets with teams seeded 1 to 8 in each bracket.

Notice (if you can read and comprehend) that I never said Paired Up In 1st Round.