Let's give Mike Thomas our ideas

[Doss]

to solve the attendance issue. What would bring you back or keep you from leaving.

I am considering leaving. What might persuade me to stay:

1. My UCATS contribution gets me the right to buy 4 seats. I buy only 2. Sure I could partner with someone else,but then if we go to the NCAA ever again I get the 2 tickets not the partner. Idea to help, make the UCATS donation on a per seat basis.

2. Win baby. What that didn't work this year. OK, make that win versus good teams.


Things we cannot do are:

1. Make the Shoe a good BB facility like UD Arena. Costs too much.
2. Build a new arena. Costs too much.

Consider the FB model. Why is attendance up?

We hired an exciting, dynamic young coach that said we are going to win now, so get onboard. He called out the media. He was standup in saying things like "that was a dumb call on my part". Like Ali he ran his mouth but backed it with results not excuses.

Post you ideas. I guess UC reads this stuff?

[jeffto]

Rather than participate in this thread, I think most prospective ticket buyers would rather have you leave. Simple as that.

[catsfan32]

i know it wouldnt bother me to much, if i had the money i would get season tickets in a heart beat considering how hard it is to move down to the lower arena. Not to mention i think this team and program are really going to be good in the future.

[Forsure21]

I like 5/3 and I think it looks as good on TV as in arena in the country. The problem is with the top arena seats. They are just terrible. You don't feel like you are in the action at all. The 10 dollar tickets they are selling is a joke because they are the worst seats in the house.

It wouldn't hurt to have stuff on or around campus for people to go or eat before or after the game.

[Forsure21]

Mick needs to start selling the program. He needs to use his words to create an image that this team is going to win the BE. He hasn't done it. He always talks about the department- he always has an excuse. He needs to realize he is the ultimate salesman.

[OnCampus]

It wouldn't hurt to have stuff on or around campus for people to go or eat before or after the game.

Are you kidding? There are literally dozens of places around UC to go and eat and hang out before/after games. That's no excuse.

[Forsure21]

Are you kidding? There are literally dozens of places around UC to go and eat and hang out before/after games. That's no excuse.

Like where? What places target the American family? McDonalds? That it? They need to get a popular franschise.

[catsfan32]

Off the top of my head on campus eatery's consist of the Catskeller, wendy's, subway, pizza hut, mick and mack cafe, goldstar. Thats all i can think of off the top of my head. Around campus there are to many to name, if you can't find a good place to eat, you sure as **** aren't looking!

[Doss]

Lenhart's/Christy's, Wings Joint on Calhoun, Wendy's on Campus, several places on Calhoun to eat. The UCATS club for season ticket holders.

Would it help having a two for one beer night? Or a $4.00 beer night?


Like where? What places target the American family? McDonalds? That it? They need to get a popular franschise.

[BearcatRob33]

Lenhart's/Christy's, Wings Joint on Calhoun, Wendy's on Campus, several places on Calhoun to eat. The UCATS club for season ticket holders.

Would it help having a two for one beer night? Or a $4.00 beer night?

To continue that list....LaRosa's, Gold Star (either on or right off campus), Mac's, Papa Dino's....Some people have no clue what they are talking about.

[Genester]

There's a very simple solution to the attendance issue - LOWER THE PRICES! I am a Bearcat fan and graduate, but not a die-hard fan (as I suspect most folks are). I was looking to take my family to the game, and at $40/ticket for each adult, it turns into an expensive exercise. I simply have better options for my entertainment $ today, and I can watch the Bearcats for free at home. The tickets would need to be in the $10-$20 range for decent seats, before I would consider going.

[LongTimer]

There's a very simple solution to the attendance issue - LOWER THE PRICES! I am a Bearcat fan and graduate, but not a die-hard fan (as I suspect most folks are). I was looking to take my family to the game, and at $40/ticket for each adult, it turns into an expensive exercise. I simply have better options for my entertainment $ today, and I can watch the Bearcats for free at home. The tickets would need to be in the $10-$20 range for decent seats, before I would consider going.

I agree...lower the prices. I have been a season ticket holder for 47 years straight. I have seats near the floor, so I pay outrageous prices, that took another huge bump up this year. Everyone that sits around me complains. It's ridiculous what we pay. That's because basketball was "the" sport forever. Now football has become "the" sport and we are making a lot of additional income because of it. I think the basketball prices should be rolled back....especially the increases that happened prior to this season. This season, you saw a substantial drop in attendance and that price increase had a lot to do with it. I think the big issue with most fans was that the administration completely ignored the fans feelings when they started cleaning house and then the program took a downturn on top of it. Instead of reaching out to the fans, the administration stuck one more dagger in us and made us pay a boatload more cash to come and watch this crap. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of fans and they left the program. The rest of us have paid it and are just pissed about it. I have heard many claim that this is their last year. Doss isn't in the minority here. There are many people on the fence and ready to leave. It would not surprise me in the least to see another decrease in fans next year!

[ralph1950]

to solve the attendance issue. What would bring you back or keep you from leaving.

I am considering leaving. What might persuade me to stay:

1. My UCATS contribution gets me the right to buy 4 seats. I buy only 2. Sure I could partner with someone else,but then if we go to the NCAA ever again I get the 2 tickets not the partner. Idea to help, make the UCATS donation on a per seat basis.

2. Win baby. What that didn't work this year. OK, make that win versus good teams.


Things we cannot do are:

1. Make the Shoe a good BB facility like UD Arena. Costs too much.
2. Build a new arena. Costs too much.

Consider the FB model. Why is attendance up?

We hired an exciting, dynamic young coach that said we are going to win now, so get onboard. He called out the media. He was standup in saying things like "that was a dumb call on my part". Like Ali he ran his mouth but backed it with results not excuses.

Post you ideas. I guess UC reads this stuff?

UCATS seats are now sold on a per seat basis, you do not get to buy 4 for the price of 2.

The Bearcats did win against good teams, UNLV, UAB, Mississippi State, Georgetown, Notre Dame, etc.

We have an exciting young basketball coach, Mick Cronin, Mike DeCourcy of the Sporting News called him one of the best up and coming coaches in the country, and that he will be great. He has been mentioned for both the Alabama and Georgia jobs. If Brian Kelly had to start with what Mick Cronin started with, basically nothing, he might have a 2-23 record and attendence would be 5,000 a game. Mark Dantonio left Kelly an excellent team with 6 future NFL draft choices. If Huggins had left Mick a team with 6 future NBA draft choices Mick would have already won a NCAA Championship.

[CincyBeerCo]

To continue that list....LaRosa's, Gold Star (either on or right off campus), Mac's, Papa Dino's....Some people have no clue what they are talking about.

...and my favorite....Holy Grail! Also Daniels pub, Murphys isnt too far, Mac's is a great place...PLENTY!

[GoCats1994]

Dear UC

To attempt to address this issue in a vacuum is short sighted. In other words...the question is not solely about basketball attendance.

When the university made a hard pitch to its fan base to attend a "last minute" trip to Florida for the Orange Bowl, it does not come without downstream impacts.

In my case (not sure if I am the only one) I gladly made the trip south and gladly bought 6 tickets through UC ($450) as opposed to going through the online services listing tickets considerably cheaper. Combined with the travel costs for my family (transportation, lodging, food, etc) the trip was above $2,000.

This was a conscious choice on my part...and one that involved my giving up my Basketball viewing $'s for the year.

Are there basketball-only fans...yes.
Do you need a strategy for selling single-game tickets...yes.
Do you need to come up with creative ways to fill the seats...yes.

Although, if anything, my UC education taught me the value of strategic thinking and seeing the bigger picture. Since you already target season ticket holders & UCAT members for mutliple sports...I would only ask that you take into consideration all that you are asking of this group.

There's only so much $ to go around...Don't beat up the loyal fans too badly. In fact, you might look for ways to reward this group.

[LongTimer]

Dear UC

To attempt to address this issue in a vacuum is short sighted. In other words...the question is not solely about basketball attendance.

When the university made a hard pitch to its fan base to attend a "last minute" trip to Florida for the Orange Bowl, it does not come without downstream impacts.

In my case (not sure if I am the only one) I gladly made the trip south and gladly bought 6 tickets through UC ($450) as opposed to going through the online services listing tickets considerably cheaper. Combined with the travel costs for my family (transportation, lodging, food, etc) the trip was above $2,000.

This was a conscious choice on my part...and one that involved my giving up my Basketball viewing $'s for the year.

Are there basketball-only fans...yes.
Do you need a strategy for selling single-game tickets...yes.
Do you need to come up with creative ways to fill the seats...yes.

Although, if anything, my UC education taught me the value of strategic thinking and seeing the bigger picture. Since you already target season ticket holders & UCAT members for mutliple sports...I would only ask that you take into consideration all that you are asking of this group.

There's only so much $ to go around...Don't beat up the loyal fans too badly. In fact, you might look for ways to reward this group.

GoCats, your last line said it all. Last year they admittedly targeted only the loyal basketball season ticket holders and jacked our costs way up. This ticked a huge number of people off and many left. The rest of your post was very good too, but I really thought the last line was the high point...well said!

[TheLivingLegend]

Rather than participate in this thread, I think most prospective ticket buyers would rather have you leave. Simple as that.

hahaha. Doss you just got owned.

[UCMarketing]

FYI...

Earlier this week UC Student Government approved some sweeping changes / affirmed buy-in to proposals that we will empower for 2009-10 regarding student ticketing. This will be announced in total on March 16. Both football and basketball student tickets have not been completely exhausted, on average, for some time. Yes, even football games last year had many tickets that were not picked up for games.

The totals for the numbers of student tickets are mandated and directly related to student fees which are provided to Athletics per operating budget, so "taking seats away" is not an option. Approximately 20% of the lower level student tickets for this past basketball season were moved from the lower level to FTA's upper level with these seats being available for purchase to the general public. Next year, both for football and basketball, there will be easier means for students to pick up tickets in advance, including a season ticket option and a enhanced student guest ticket policy. Both changes are thought out, and will enhance capacity in the student areas for 2009-10 events. Football changes have already been adopted – basketball changes will be solidified soon.

That being said, when all you have to do is log on and print a ticket, or simply drop by and pick up a free ticket between 8a-6p weekdays and 2 hours before a game on the weekend the HARDSHIP angle of students not being able to "easily" get a ticket could get lost to some people. The feedback from students directly is that they will PAY for season tickets to avoid having to go online and print / come by the ticket office and pick it up. They wanted the option and thus will have that chance next year, 2009-10.

As for the Rallycats, this group does more than support Football and Basketball and by in large does a nice job. Improvements will be discussed and as with non-student fans, their feedback and buy-in will be critical to the success of any program moving forward. The subgroup known as THE DEN will be re-examined at the end of the season, as are all elements of the program. In the end, it comes down to basic interest in the product as students have a lot on their plate now and many options for their budgeted dollars. We have staged many meetings with students over the course of the 2008-09 academic year and have received great feedback on why they go to some games and why they do not go.

Per students overall we are now getting in front of EVERY incoming Freshman and Freshman parent/guardian during the orientation process. The student ticket process is described in a presentation format and each student/parent received a handout with the ticket process on it. I would consider this a step in the right direction as far as the outreach goes.

Beginning with the 2009-10 men's basketball season there will be a plan in place that will present non-student patrons with an entry level opportunity to buy season tickets that are deeply discounted. These will be upper level seats in Fifth Third Arena and will not include any UCATS fees. Considering this offer includes approximately 18 home games, the average ticket price will be in the neighborhood of $10 per ticket. Time will tell if folks are actually turned off by the price of tickets, or if it is something else that keeps them from coming to games. The lower levels of FTA on the sidelines along with the top fifteen rows of the upper deck in the sideline sections are SOLD OUT with season ticket patrons. This leaves the upper level seats as areas where paid attendance will be improved.

Also, we did offer the Young Professionals package that was in the lower level seats (seats relinquished from the student allotment), with an introductory UCATS membership rate of $50. We sold 36 season tickets for this offer for the 2008-09 season.

All changes are pretty substantial with regard to the long term health of the UC Basketball brand and are made with respect to the folks who are long time supporters of the program and whose dollars keep the program afloat.

Another change for 2009-10 will be tiered pricing for games: Premier, BIG EAST, Early Season and Preseason. By tiering the ticket prices within the season ticket structure we can preserve the value and the investment made by season ticket patrons, while not undercutting their investment through knee-jerk responses to a variable market. The tier system will also give us the flexibility to lower prices for exhibition games and early season games, which is a great entry point for patrons to come and experience UC Basketball. Based on availability, mini plans will be offered for BIG EAST games for all non-season ticket occupied areas. Again, price integrity will be taken into mind when prices are set regarding areas of the arena.

That being said there were a plethora of mini plans and even a late season discounted $10 ticket offer, neither of which led to a marked % improvement in attendance from this year, or with respect to the last five years attendance. Dating back to 2000-01 the upper level corners of Fifth Third Arena have been difficult seats to market and have been by in large not filled by fans.

[slimm]

FYI...

Earlier this week UC Student Government approved some sweeping changes / affirmed buy-in to proposals that we will empower for 2009-10 regarding student ticketing. This will be announced in total on March 16. Both football and basketball student tickets have not been completely exhausted, on average, for some time. Yes, even football games last year had many tickets that were not picked up for games.

The totals for the numbers of student tickets are mandated and directly related to student fees which are provided to Athletics per operating budget, so "taking seats away" is not an option. Approximately 20% of the lower level student tickets for this past basketball season were moved from the lower level to FTA's upper level with these seats being available for purchase to the general public. Next year, both for football and basketball, there will be easier means for students to pick up tickets in advance, including a season ticket option and a enhanced student guest ticket policy. Both changes are thought out, and will enhance capacity in the student areas for 2009-10 events. Football changes have already been adopted ? basketball changes will be solidified soon.

That being said, when all you have to do is log on and print a ticket, or simply drop by and pick up a free ticket between 8a-6p weekdays and 2 hours before a game on the weekend the HARDSHIP angle of students not being able to "easily" get a ticket could get lost to some people. The feedback from students directly is that they will PAY for season tickets to avoid having to go online and print / come by the ticket office and pick it up. They wanted the option and thus will have that chance next year, 2009-10.

As for the Rallycats, this group does more than support Football and Basketball and by in large does a nice job. Improvements will be discussed and as with non-student fans, their feedback and buy-in will be critical to the success of any program moving forward. The subgroup known as THE DEN will be re-examined at the end of the season, as are all elements of the program. In the end, it comes down to basic interest in the product as students have a lot on their plate now and many options for their budgeted dollars. We have staged many meetings with students over the course of the 2008-09 academic year and have received great feedback on why they go to some games and why they do not go.

Per students overall we are now getting in front of EVERY incoming Freshman and Freshman parent/guardian during the orientation process. The student ticket process is described in a presentation format and each student/parent received a handout with the ticket process on it. I would consider this a step in the right direction as far as the outreach goes.

Beginning with the 2009-10 men's basketball season there will be a plan in place that will present non-student patrons with an entry level opportunity to buy season tickets that are deeply discounted. These will be upper level seats in Fifth Third Arena and will not include any UCATS fees. Considering this offer includes approximately 18 home games, the average ticket price will be in the neighborhood of $10 per ticket. Time will tell if folks are actually turned off by the price of tickets, or if it is something else that keeps them from coming to games. The lower levels of FTA on the sidelines along with the top fifteen rows of the upper deck in the sideline sections are SOLD OUT with season ticket patrons. This leaves the upper level seats as areas where paid attendance will be improved.

Also, we did offer the Young Professionals package that was in the lower level seats (seats relinquished from the student allotment), with an introductory UCATS membership rate of $50. We sold 36 season tickets for this offer for the 2008-09 season.

All changes are pretty substantial with regard to the long term health of the UC Basketball brand and are made with respect to the folks who are long time supporters of the program and whose dollars keep the program afloat.

Another change for 2009-10 will be tiered pricing for games: Premier, BIG EAST, Early Season and Preseason. By tiering the ticket prices within the season ticket structure we can preserve the value and the investment made by season ticket patrons, while not undercutting their investment through knee-jerk responses to a variable market. The tier system will also give us the flexibility to lower prices for exhibition games and early season games, which is a great entry point for patrons to come and experience UC Basketball. Based on availability, mini plans will be offered for BIG EAST games for all non-season ticket occupied areas. Again, price integrity will be taken into mind when prices are set regarding areas of the arena.

That being said there were a plethora of mini plans and even a late season discounted $10 ticket offer, neither of which led to a marked % improvement in attendance from this year, or with respect to the last five years attendance. Dating back to 2000-01 the upper level corners of Fifth Third Arena have been difficult seats to market and have been by in large not filled by fans.

i have said it before...make me want to come to the games. other than the obvious! every sporting event we go to starts out with some sort of gathering somewhere. how about for basketball pre game tailgating in the armory? how about redo the upper four corners of the shoe into mini boxes,party rooms or something like the cincinnati bell boat deal at great american BP. how about when I buy upper deck seats for my kid & a couple of his friends, you let us come down & sit in the empty student section instead of being told sorry, cant do that. how about opening up the Ucat Club to non- members for an hour , two hours before the game or sometime after the game?
________
LickSausage cam (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/LickSausage)

[Forsure21]

i have said it before...make me want to come to the games. other than the obvious! every sporting event we go to starts out with some sort of gathering somewhere. how about for basketball pre game tailgating in the armory? how about redo the upper four corners of the shoe into mini boxes,party rooms or something like the cincinnati bell boat deal at great american BP. how about when I buy upper deck seats for my kid & a couple of his friends, you let us come down & sit in the empty student section instead of being told sorry, cant do that. how about opening up the Ucat Club to non- members for an hour , two hours before the game or sometime after the game?

You make a lot of points but were talking about watching college kids play basketball. It shouldn't be any different IMO then going to an NKU womens game. You pay for your ticket, you sit in that sit and you watch the game. Yes something with the corner seats and upper level needs to be addressed. Thats a no brainer.

[Cats4Ever]

Reduce prices. Period.

Must be killing someone that students get in for free*. It's college basketball at a college.



* - Ignoring the online fee, of course.

[Forsure21]

The bottom line is it is college basketball at a college. IMO, Mick is WAAYYY overpaid. Not saying he doesn't work hard etc but he needs to be the one to sell the program and do things to sell it. I never hear about him doing things in the community or going around at events and speaking. He isn't good with all the legwork that is paramount is building relationships through the community.

Look at BK speaking at events all across Ohio. Spreading the word. Giving great quotes. Being passionate. I don't see any passion with Mick. I think he is in it for the paycheck first.

[slimm]

You make a lot of points but were talking about watching college kids play basketball. It shouldn't be any different IMO then going to an NKU womens game. You pay for your ticket, you sit in that sit and you watch the game. Yes something with the corner seats and upper level needs to be addressed. Thats a no brainer.

if you think going to a bearcats game is on par with going to a NKU womens game, then there are other issues you need to address. there is no comparison between NKU womens & a Tennessee womens game, never mind a UC mens game. ****, half of the div1 mens programs wish they had the attendance UT womens program has. if you want to buy your ticket and sit in your sit and watch the game, buy a ticket for the world series of poker or something. your right, these are college kids, they cant sit still! they want to jump,scream & cheer...so do I. thats what I love about college athletics...you dont sit there & watch.
________
LIVE SEX (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[Cats4Ever]

Discussion of bill supporting athletics option for students to buy student tickers.

o All tickets remain free unless students wants to buy all six games for $30 if they want guaranteed and treated as regular ticket holder.

o Guest tickets going up to $20 from $10 or season guest for $150 (if you get season ticket for yourself)

o Starts April 3

[Forsure21]

if you think going to a bearcats game is on par with going to a NKU womens game, then there are other issues you need to address. there is no comparison between NKU womens & a Tennessee womens game, never mind a UC mens game. ****, half of the div1 mens programs wish they had the attendance UT womens program has. if you want to buy your ticket and sit in your sit and watch the game, buy a ticket for the world series of poker or something. your right, these are college kids, they cant sit still! they want to jump,scream & cheer...so do I. thats what I love about college athletics...you dont sit there & watch.

Yeah, the atmosphere is different for sure. IMO, college athletics is about pride- the support is the same way. Most university get awesome support because the alumni and fan base etc. take a lot of pride in that school. That isn't the case for Cincinnati.

What I was saying with the NKU game is if you are willing to pay money you should be happy and be able to enjoy what you are watching without all the great amenities.

Again, the number one salesman is Mick Cronin and he doesn't take the legwork serious. It's not a big deal or important to him. He isn't taking any of the same steps in building a program that BK is.

[OhioFootball]

Yeah, the atmosphere is different for sure. IMO, college athletics is about pride- the support is the same way. Most university get awesome support because the alumni and fan base etc. take a lot of pride in that school. That isn't the case for Cincinnati.

What I was saying with the NKU game is if you are willing to pay money you should be happy and be able to enjoy what you are watching without all the great amenities.

Again, the number one salesman is Mick Cronin and he doesn't take the legwork serious. It's not a big deal or important to him. He isn't taking any of the same steps in building a program that BK is.

Mick and UC as a whole just doesn't "get" it. UC is not a program with a HUGE built in fan base. The fan base was largely because of a coach. He remade UC into a program again and when he left so did a ton of fans. That might irk people, but it's the damn truth. UC needs to win and that will solve everything. When this program wins and gets a reputation again then we will see the fans come back in groves. Right now the team is just there. They don't have anything to sell until they win again. Again, UC was rebuilt by Bob Huggins and because of that there was a huge fan base that had NO affiliation with UC. Now they are gone. Bring them back.

[Doss]

the contribution gets you the RIGHT TO BUY 4. If you only want two tickets you must contribute the same amount. See this link http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/cinn/genrel/auto_pdf/ucats-benefit-levels.pdf


UCATS seats are now sold on a per seat basis, you do not get to buy 4 for the price of 2.

The Bearcats did win against good teams, UNLV, UAB, Mississippi State, Georgetown, Notre Dame, etc.

We have an exciting young basketball coach, Mick Cronin, Mike DeCourcy of the Sporting News called him one of the best up and coming coaches in the country, and that he will be great. He has been mentioned for both the Alabama and Georgia jobs. If Brian Kelly had to start with what Mick Cronin started with, basically nothing, he might have a 2-23 record and attendence would be 5,000 a game. Mark Dantonio left Kelly an excellent team with 6 future NFL draft choices. If Huggins had left Mick a team with 6 future NBA draft choices Mick would have already won a NCAA Championship.

[bearcatbbllfn]

Reward your UCAT members and season ticket holders. Give them something back that doesnt cost them more money. Coupon books for a few free concessions and what not. ****, kings island does that for a $80 season pass.
You could offer loyalty cash rewards, redeemable for new purchases for those who purchased season tickets 5 or 10 yrs consecutively. A collabrotive of affiliates on a national level that offer discounts and earn you points towards the reward program or will redeem your points as cash at thier venues. Airlines, credit card companies and thier affiliates have reward programs for thier loyal customers. Something that equates to a cash back savings.

Get private enterprise more involved on the fan level for those who buy on a per game basis. Get them to provide more free handouts at the game. Get them to sponsor a raffle or drawing at each game for those who purchase individual game seats. Maybe a sponsorship program for qualifying families on a budget who want to attend. They could sponsor a basic UCATS membership and a season parking pass with the purchase of a family season ticket package. Just some food for thought.

[Forsure21]

Mick and UC as a whole just doesn't "get" it. UC is not a program with a HUGE built in fan base. The fan base was largely because of a coach. He remade UC into a program again and when he left so did a ton of fans. That might irk people, but it's the damn truth. UC needs to win and that will solve everything. When this program wins and gets a reputation again then we will see the fans come back in groves. Right now the team is just there. They don't have anything to sell until they win again. Again, UC was rebuilt by Bob Huggins and because of that there was a huge fan base that had NO affiliation with UC. Now they are gone. Bring them back.

You are right. It is about winning but at the same time Mick isn't selling anybody that he wants to win the BE etc. He seems content on trying to fight for 8th place year in and year out. Whenever you hear BK talk he is always creating a vision of success. THe best speakers are the people who can create these visions with their words. Mick is a terrible salesman and it has become a flagrant fault of his. Mick couldn't sell life to a deadman.

[BtotheU]

You are right. It is about winning but at the same time Mick isn't selling anybody that he wants to win the BE etc. He seems content on trying to fight for 8th place year in and year out. Whenever you hear BK talk he is always creating a vision of success. THe best speakers are the people who can create these visions with their words. Mick is a terrible salesman and it has become a flagrant fault of his. Mick couldn't sell life to a deadman.

Really? You really think that's what Mick is aiming for? Let's understand the dynamic here. Basketball in the Big East is to football in the SEC. Football in the Big East is to basketball in the A10. Don't try and compare successes between the football program and basketball program, it's apples and oranges. Feel free to argue that point about BE football, but deep down inside you know the league is a tier below other BCS leagues, just like the A10 is a tier below "BCS" basketball leagues. It takes one good coach 2 years to have success in BE football. It takes an equally good basketball coach (starting with nothing) at least 3-4 years to have success in BE bball. And as far as I can tell, both UC coaches are right where they should be.

[Forsure21]

Really? You really think that's what Mick is aiming for? Let's understand the dynamic here. Basketball in the Big East is to football in the SEC. Football in the Big East is to basketball in the A10. Don't try and compare successes between the football program and basketball program, it's apples and oranges. Feel free to argue that point about BE football, but deep down inside you know the league is a tier below other BCS leagues, just like the A10 is a tier below "BCS" basketball leagues. It takes one good coach 2 years to have success in BE football. It takes an equally good basketball coach (starting with nothing) at least 3-4 years to have success in BE bball. And as far as I can tell, both UC coaches are right where they should be.

Good points but none of it has anything to do witht the fact that Mick couldn't sell a soul to a deadman. He isn't a FACE for the program. He isn't great at the legwork it takes to build a program. He isn't getting invited to come speak at events etc.. While winning is the number 1 selling point- Mick fails in all the other areas. He isn't selling the fans that he wants this team to win the BE next year etc.

[ralph1950]

Reduce prices. Period.

Must be killing someone that students get in for free*. It's college basketball at a college.



* - Ignoring the online fee, of course.

Very bad idea to reduce prices. Has Louisville reduced prices? Upper level and behind the basket seats in Freedom Hall are worse than seats in FTA. UC should charge at least as much as Louisville.

[ralph1950]

the contribution gets you the RIGHT TO BUY 4. If you only want two tickets you must contribute the same amount. See this link http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/cinn/genrel/auto_pdf/ucats-benefit-levels.pdf

This was changed for the 2008-2009 season, UCATS donation is now on a per seat basis.

[ralph1950]

Reward your UCAT members and season ticket holders. Give them something back that doesnt cost them more money. Coupon books for a few free concessions and what not. ****, kings island does that for a $80 season pass.
You could offer loyalty cash rewards, redeemable for new purchases for those who purchased season tickets 5 or 10 yrs consecutively. A collabrotive of affiliates on a national level that offer discounts and earn you points towards the reward program or will redeem your points as cash at thier venues. Airlines, credit card companies and thier affiliates have reward programs for thier loyal customers. Something that equates to a cash back savings.

Get private enterprise more involved on the fan level for those who buy on a per game basis. Get them to provide more free handouts at the game. Get them to sponsor a raffle or drawing at each game for those who purchase individual game seats. Maybe a sponsorship program for qualifying families on a budget who want to attend. They could sponsor a basic UCATS membership and a season parking pass with the purchase of a family season ticket package. Just some food for thought.


Does Louisville do this???????????

[ralph1950]

Good points but none of it has anything to do witht the fact that Mick couldn't sell a soul to a deadman. He isn't a FACE for the program. He isn't great at the legwork it takes to build a program. He isn't getting invited to come speak at events etc.. While winning is the number 1 selling point- Mick fails in all the other areas. He isn't selling the fans that he wants this team to win the BE next year etc.

Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ralph1950]

You are right. It is about winning but at the same time Mick isn't selling anybody that he wants to win the BE etc. He seems content on trying to fight for 8th place year in and year out. Whenever you hear BK talk he is always creating a vision of success. THe best speakers are the people who can create these visions with their words. Mick is a terrible salesman and it has become a flagrant fault of his. Mick couldn't sell life to a deadman.

Wrong. How easy it is to forget that Mick started with basically no players. Your boy Bobby was left great recruits by John Belien and in his 2 years at WVU he has been fighting for 8th place also.

[levydl]

You are right. It is about winning but at the same time Mick isn't selling anybody that he wants to win the BE etc. He seems content on trying to fight for 8th place year in and year out. Whenever you hear BK talk he is always creating a vision of success. THe best speakers are the people who can create these visions with their words. Mick is a terrible salesman and it has become a flagrant fault of his. Mick couldn't sell life to a deadman.

He sold Cashmere Wright and Yancy and Chane Behanan to come here after a, what, 14 win season?

What's Cronin supposed to say, we're going to win the Big East this year? We had no shot. He and everyone who was paying any attention knew it. I don't see how you can think because he may be content this year to be in the middle of the league that he'll always be so. Kelly wasn't telling anyone that we were going to win the National Championship this year - he knew we weren't. Seriously, a little patience and perspective. Get a clue, man. It's year 3 of a massive rebuilding effort. Winning the Big East now is not realistic.

[BtotheU]

Good points but none of it has anything to do witht the fact that Mick couldn't sell a soul to a deadman. He isn't a FACE for the program. He isn't great at the legwork it takes to build a program. He isn't getting invited to come speak at events etc.. While winning is the number 1 selling point- Mick fails in all the other areas. He isn't selling the fans that he wants this team to win the BE next year etc.

I'd prefer Mick sell potential recruits than speak to a bunch of middle-aged men at some high school's stag. Mick's objective is to win and that's ultimately what he gets paid to do. If you can't see the progression of the program over the last 3 years, you're blind. You're really reaching for things to complain about.

[Forsure21]

He sold Cashmere Wright and Yancy and Chane Behanan to come here after a, what, 14 win season?

What's Cronin supposed to say, we're going to win the Big East this year? We had no shot. He and everyone who was paying any attention knew it. I don't see how you can think because he may be content this year to be in the middle of the league that he'll always be so. Kelly wasn't telling anyone that we were going to win the National Championship this year - he knew we weren't. Seriously, a little patience and perspective. Get a clue, man. It's year 3 of a massive rebuilding effort. Winning the Big East now is not realistic.

Im talking about Mick selling the fans and people of Cincinnati. Im not talking about 3 kids he sold the idea of a free education too. Admit it, he isn't great at the legwork it takes to build a great program. What work has he done in the community? Tom Creen has already had two national media plugs this season because he has the passion and he does a great job of selling and that attracts national media- not just the local media.

Im talking Mick as a salesman on the subject of getting the seats filled. I'm talking about creating excitement. Using his words to create a vision of where he wants to take this program and where it can go. Mick fails in the sales department. Obviously he needs to win first but you can still be selling.

[Forsure21]

I'd prefer Mick sell potential recruits than speak to a bunch of middle-aged men at some high school's stag. Mick's objective is to win and that's ultimately what he gets paid to do. If you can't see the progression of the program over the last 3 years, you're blind. You're really reaching for things to complain about.

I know about the progression. Im not reaching. THis is all on the subject of selling tickets. You think Mike THomas is happy about 7500 seat average? It's as much a business as anything. My whole POINT of what will get the seats sold is winning and Mick doing the legwork it takes to build relationships in the community and excite people while getting them interested. You are missing my whole point. Im not talking Mick selling a free education, some shoes and playing time to some HS kids.

[ralph1950]

Im talking about Mick selling the fans and people of Cincinnati. Im not talking about 3 kids he sold the idea of a free education too. Admit it, he isn't great at the legwork it takes to build a great program. What work has he done in the community? Tom Creen has already had two national media plugs this season because he has the passion and he does a great job of selling and that attracts national media- not just the local media.

Im talking Mick as a salesman on the subject of getting the seats filled. I'm talking about creating excitement. Using his words to create a vision of where he wants to take this program and where it can go. Mick fails in the sales department. Obviously he needs to win first but you can still be selling.

Mick has a golf outing in May at Elks Run, be sure to sign up for it.

[jplog]

How exactly did Huggins sell this program? Sure I heard him doing endorsements on the radio but I hear Mick as well. Golf outings, Mick does them also. Huggins is a painfully dry public speaker, Mick is better. Winning is the only difference between them right now (although not head to head!). As pointed out earlier, Mick has UC (after being decimated) right about where Huggs has WVU (left with good players). Mick just needs time and he'll almost surely exceed most of our expectations.

[levydl]

Im talking about Mick selling the fans and people of Cincinnati. Im not talking about 3 kids he sold the idea of a free education too. Admit it, he isn't great at the legwork it takes to build a great program. What work has he done in the community? Tom Creen has already had two national media plugs this season because he has the passion and he does a great job of selling and that attracts national media- not just the local media.

Im talking Mick as a salesman on the subject of getting the seats filled. I'm talking about creating excitement. Using his words to create a vision of where he wants to take this program and where it can go. Mick fails in the sales department. Obviously he needs to win first but you can still be selling.

Tom Crean has national media plugs because he's at IU. Him being hired at IU was all over the national media without him having done anything.

Cronin is doing all he can to get the seats filled - he's trying to build a winner. If you think he can't build a winning team here, I strongly disagree, but that's at least a legitimate point. But you're just factually incorrect when you say he's content to be 8th place.

Obviously he needs to win first

If it's so obvious, why don't you understand it?

[London 'Cat]

Kelly has been a great face of the football program, no doubt. But he is a charismatic, energetic and engaing personality. Cronin is not quite as much of any of those three. The football program needed a coach like Kelly to build a fan base in Cincinnati that no prior coach was able to accomplish in the history of UC football. The basketball program has previously proven it can be a viable and sustainable product simply by winning games.

The key distinction between the two is that Kelly has had great success at UC. Therefore, groups and organizations want him to speak at their gatherings - human nature is such that people want to be associated with a winner. Cronin may become more of a program salesman once he wins more games and fans want to hear him talk. I doubt many people want to hear from a coach that has a sub .500 record as a head coach.

The fans will return if/when the team begins winning again. The program needs no other marketing. If Huggins was such a great salesman of the program, they why did the decline in attendance begin while he was coach? His teams were not winning conference championships every year during that time period.

[LongTimer]

Very bad idea to reduce prices. Has Louisville reduced prices? Upper level and behind the basket seats in Freedom Hall are worse than seats in FTA. UC should charge at least as much as Louisville.

UC should be comparable to Ohio State. Ohio State requires zero contribution to any UCATS type club. Just buy season tickets and enjoy the game. At UC....spend thousands....then buy your tickets too!

[LongTimer]

Really? You really think that's what Mick is aiming for? Let's understand the dynamic here. Basketball in the Big East is to football in the SEC. Football in the Big East is to basketball in the A10. Don't try and compare successes between the football program and basketball program, it's apples and oranges. Feel free to argue that point about BE football, but deep down inside you know the league is a tier below other BCS leagues, just like the A10 is a tier below "BCS" basketball leagues. It takes one good coach 2 years to have success in BE football. It takes an equally good basketball coach (starting with nothing) at least 3-4 years to have success in BE bball. And as far as I can tell, both UC coaches are right where they should be.

Mick Cronin did not start with nothing. We had a high profile program that had not been out of the NCAA for 14 years...highly recognizable nationwide. He just had a slim roster. He also had one of the best point guards in the nation...but he turned him away. He didn't come to an obscure program like Huggins came to. Our brand was one of the most recognizable nationally. His job wasn't that tough and the national media is not even ranking him in the top 25 coaches that have done the best job. Tom Crean is in the Top 25. Even our ex-coach Frank Martin is in the top 25....but not Mick Cronin!

[LongTimer]

Mick has a golf outing in May at Elks Run, be sure to sign up for it.

Ralph will be Mick's caddy!

[Forsure21]

Kelly has been a great face of the football program, no doubt. But he is a charismatic, energetic and engaing personality. Cronin is not quite as much of any of those three. The football program needed a coach like Kelly to build a fan base in Cincinnati that no prior coach was able to accomplish in the history of UC football. The basketball program has previously proven it can be a viable and sustainable product simply by winning games.

The key distinction between the two is that Kelly has had great success at UC. Therefore, groups and organizations want him to speak at their gatherings - human nature is such that people want to be associated with a winner. Cronin may become more of a program salesman once he wins more games and fans want to hear him talk. I doubt many people want to hear from a coach that has a sub .500 record as a head coach.

The fans will return if/when the team begins winning again. The program needs no other marketing. If Huggins was such a great salesman of the program, they why did the decline in attendance begin while he was coach? His teams were not winning conference championships every year during that time period.

There was a decline because there was only one way too go. Thats pretty obvious.

[LongTimer]

Ralph will be Mick's caddy!

In fact, he'll be carrying Mick and the bag!

[London 'Cat]

There was a decline because there was only one way too go. Thats pretty obvious.

But Huggins was not happy about the decline in attendance towards the end of his tenure. I recall him stating so to the media on more than one occasion. At the time, I did not understand it either, nor do I now, but the attendance was declining. Maybe the "brand" of UC basketball was not as strong as we all believed it was.

[slimm]

He just had a slim roster.

hey! i resemble that remark. good & valid points on both sides of the MC debate..but Im sticking to next year is put up or get out. put up meaning, top 8 BE, 20 plus wins,a least 4 over the ranked teams(sign. wins),ncaa bid & run to sweet 16 (ncaa championship if reik shows up)
________
Tessica live (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/Tessica)

[London 'Cat]

hey! i resemble that remark. good & valid points on both sides of the MC debate..but Im sticking to next year is put up or get out. put up meaning, top 8 BE, 20 plus wins,a least 4 over the ranked teams(sign. wins),ncaa bid & run to sweet 16 (ncaa championship if reik shows up)

I think this is a reasonable expectation for next season, barring any unforeseen injuries, transfers, etc. And if Cronin cannot deliver at least this, it will be time to evaluate his continued employment as UC's coach.

[Forsure21]

But Huggins was not happy about the decline in attendance towards the end of his tenure. I recall him stating so to the media on more than one occasion. At the time, I did not understand it either, nor do I now, but the attendance was declining. Maybe the "brand" of UC basketball was not as strong as we all believed it was.

I know he wasn't happy. The fact is on his decline he still average 12,000 plus. It's not like that was hurting the athletic department like 7500 is today.

[Forsure21]

Lol was Yates the coach in 89? The avg Attendance was below 4,000. The football team couldnt have been much better. Wow talk about a dark period in UC athletic interest and attendance. I guess that is back when the Reds and Bengals were actually good though.

[London 'Cat]

I know he wasn't happy. The fact is on his decline he still average 12,000 plus. It's not like that was hurting the athletic department like 7500 is today.

Yes, I know. My point is that the fan base was already contracting before his separation. If UC were 28-2 right now instead of 18-12, I guarantee there would be 13,176 at every home game. If/when the 'Cats return to winning 20 games each and every year, return to the top 25 and stay there throughout the season, 5/3 will be sold out again.

[ralph1950]

Mick Cronin did not start with nothing. We had a high profile program that had not been out of the NCAA for 14 years...highly recognizable nationwide. He just had a slim roster. He also had one of the best point guards in the nation...but he turned him away. He didn't come to an obscure program like Huggins came to. Our brand was one of the most recognizable nationally. His job wasn't that tough and the national media is not even ranking him in the top 25 coaches that have done the best job. Tom Crean is in the Top 25. Even our ex-coach Frank Martin is in the top 25....but not Mick Cronin!

Huggins did not come to an obscure program, he came to a program that had won 2 National Championships, had gone to 5 consectutive Final 4's, had one of the greatest players in the history of college basketball, Oscar, had built a brand spanking new 13,176 seat arena, had the coach with the greatest winning % in the NCAA tourney, Jucker. The program also beat XU 22 out of 23 times and Catlett was a perfect 8-0 against XU. And when BH left he left the program dry as a bone.

[Forsure21]

Yes, I know. My point is that the fan base was already contracting before his separation. If UC were 28-2 right now instead of 18-12, I guarantee there would be 13,176 at every home game. If/when the 'Cats return to winning 20 games each and every year, return to the top 25 and stay there throughout the season, 5/3 will be sold out again.

They were still selling out the big games though and multiple times a year. It was the games against the the weaker competition. So people weren't disinterested as you might read into that.

[ralph1950]

Lol was Yates the coach in 89? The avg Attendance was below 4,000. The football team couldnt have been much better. Wow talk about a dark period in UC athletic interest and attendance. I guess that is back when the Reds and Bengals were actually good though.

Yates had to play his last 2 years that averaged 4,000 at the Cincinnati Gardens.

[slimm]

Huggins did not come to an obscure program, he came to a program that had won 2 National Championships, had gone to 5 consectutive Final 4's, had one of the greatest players in the history of college basketball, Oscar, had built a brand spanking new 13,176 seat arena, had the coach with the greatest winning % in the NCAA tourney, Jucker. And when BH left he left the program dry as a bone.

no wonder you get in trouble. i will give you UC was not an obscure program, but it sure wasn't relevant in any way since those championships. and when BH left , it was nowhere near bone dry, the administrations handling of the situation during those couple years after his departure( not naming a coach, no recruiting) is what set the program back at least 5 years
________
Depakote Lawyers (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/depakote/)

[London 'Cat]

no wonder you get in trouble. i will give you UC was not an obscure program, but it sure wasn't relevant in any way since those championships. and when BH left , it was nowhere near bone dry, the administrations handling of the situation during those couple years after his departure( not naming a coach, no recruiting) is what set the program back at least 5 years

There was only one year, not a couple. And it was pretty close to bone dry as most of the meat was seniors in White, Kirkland, Hicks, Muhammad et al. The only returning meat was Cedric McGowan, who we can all agree was low grade dog food, and the only incoming meat was Downey, who was Grade A prime, I concede, and Dominic Tilford (see McGowan, above). And, if the program was set back 5 years, why is everyone so upset with where we are in year 4? By all accounts, we pretty much agree that next year is when the program is likely to return to its former self.

[Forsure21]

There was only one year, not a couple. And it was pretty close to bone dry as most of the meat was seniors in White, Kirkland, Hicks, Muhammad et al. The only returning meat was Cedric McGowan, who we can all agree was low grade dog food, and the only incoming meat was Downey, who was Grade A prime, I concede, and Dominic Tilford (see McGowan, above).

IMO, the administration should have named Kennedy HC in advance knowing in the back of their mind that they could let Mic groom at another school and go after him if AK didn't work out.

[London 'Cat]

IMO, the administration should have named Kennedy HC in advance knowing in the back of their mind that they could let Mic groom at another school and go after him if AK didn't work out.

Not that I blame AK, but if he had at least tried to recruit and demonstrated a desire/plan to stay at UC, they may have hired him, perhaps even mid-season. But that would have made sense, yes. I will never argue that the adminsitration handled the separation well, because they botched it about as badly as one can.

[kirkenka]

From UC Marketing:
"Also, we did offer the Young Professionals package that was in the lower level seats (seats relinquished from the student allotment), with an introductory UCATS membership rate of $50. We sold 36 season tickets for this offer for the 2008-09 season."

I would argue that you have a small market in this target demographic. First off, I would guess most individuals that are going to purchase season tickets within this age group will be stakeholders of the University. Most probably, these will be alumni. From the games I have been to since at least 2004 there has been very little student interest in the games. I am guessing most of the young alumni that purchased the tickets between the ages of 28 to 30. Most pushing the 30 age limit.

I graduated from UC in 2000, probably the highest level of student interest in the basketball program. I am 31 so couldn't buy these tickets.

After the 1998-99 season, the rules had to be changed for camping out for tickets because it became ridiculous how early people started to camp out. I have purchased a partial package of tickets almost every year since I have been out of school. I would consider season tickets but I was spoiled as a student with great seats and don't want to commit to a whole season of bad seats. I didn't even mind paying $40 for Louisville and Xavier when the lower level tickets became available to UCATs members. Everyone has there reasons for purchasing tickets or not going to the games.

Good luck figuring this out. Hopefully I shed some light on why the young professional plan failed IMO.

[Doss]

without a contract it is a total waste of time and money to try to recruit. What would I tell the prospect when he asks "Who will be the coach?"


Not that I blame AK, but if he had at least tried to recruit and demonstrated a desire/plan to stay at UC, they may have hired him, perhaps even mid-season. But that would have made sense, yes. I will never argue that the adminsitration handled the separation well, because they botched it about as badly as one can.

[Doss]

I get enough seeing him on the Annual UCATS Boat Ride
Mick has a golf outing in May at Elks Run, be sure to sign up for it.

[London 'Cat]

without a contract it is a total waste of time and money to try to recruit. What would I tell the prospect when he asks "Who will be the coach?"

As I said, I don't blame AK for not recruiting. But if he wanted the job, he could have at least made some effort or developed a plan for the future of the program. Thomas and/or the adminsitration may have decided he was the guy to lead the program.

[bearcatbbllfn]

Does Louisville do this???????????

If we were Louisville, we would not be having the discussion. Need to do something until demand dictates otherwise. Apparently some outside the box thinking and new innovative ideas are needed to stimulate progress. It gives UC the chance to build a long lasting relationship with the fan. Woo them in and give them a winning product. The rest will take care of itself.

[XUBBALLUCFOOTBALL]

The arena is fine. If they could do anything to make it better it would close off the corners. If you have ever been to UD arena the upper sections are awful. The Cintas Center is a great place to watch a game even if it's a little plain inside, although that is changing next year with all the new scoreboards like UC has.

The best way and the only way to get the fans back is to win. Xavier would have empty seats as well if they started losing. This is a bandwagon city and the only cure is to win.

[LongTimer]

Huggins did not come to an obscure program, he came to a program that had won 2 National Championships, had gone to 5 consectutive Final 4's, had one of the greatest players in the history of college basketball, Oscar, had built a brand spanking new 13,176 seat arena, had the coach with the greatest winning % in the NCAA tourney, Jucker. The program also beat XU 22 out of 23 times and Catlett was a perfect 8-0 against XU. And when BH left he left the program dry as a bone.

Great post Ralph...lots of valid points! :eek::eek::eek:

[Doss]

is much better than the Shoe, also they are real seats not benches.


The arena is fine. If they could do anything to make it better it would close off the corners. If you have ever been to UD arena the upper sections are awful. The Cintas Center is a great place to watch a game even if it's a little plain inside, although that is changing next year with all the new scoreboards like UC has.

The best way and the only way to get the fans back is to win. Xavier would have empty seats as well if they started losing. This is a bandwagon city and the only cure is to win.

[Doss]

the link. It is the official site or provide so authority (you are not one).

This was changed for the 2008-2009 season, UCATS donation is now on a per seat basis.

[bearcattom]

I have been a UCAT and season ticket holder for about 10 years. I have 4 seats for both basketball & football and almost never use all 4 for basketball. I am going to drop next year as sitting in the upper deck for the $ and the quality of entertainment is just not worth it.

THE ANSWER TO THE SOLUTION IS BUILD A NEW ARENA. The ONLY option under consideration right now is to move to US Bank Arena as there is NO MONEY for a NEW ARENA.

This program will not go up from the middle of the BE w/o a NEW ARENA. $ drives a program especially w/ recruiting efforts and corporate sponsorships. BUILD A NEW ARENA!

Tom

[ralph1950]

Great post Ralph...lots of valid points! :eek::eek::eek:

Thank you. It is good to know you are finally see the light of day.

[ralph1950]

the link. It is the official site or provide so authority (you are not one).

You are incorrect and even Longtimer will back me up on this one. Meetings were held in January, 2008 to inform all UCATS of the price increases. In the past you were allowed to buy a number of seats based on your level. I am tier 1 and could buy 6 seats. The 20% increase was announced and the policy was changed to make the donation on a per seat basis. I was paying $3,500 for my 6 seats before the change. Tier 1 seats were changed to $1,050 per seat, so if I wanted to keep my increase to 20% I had to give up 2 seats. I kept the 6 seats so I am now paying $6,300 for the 6 seats which was an 80% increase from what I previously paid. UC and Big East basketball are well worth the additional cost.

[ralph1950]

I have been a UCAT and season ticket holder for about 10 years. I have 4 seats for both basketball & football and almost never use all 4 for basketball. I am going to drop next year as sitting in the upper deck for the $ and the quality of entertainment is just not worth it.

THE ANSWER TO THE SOLUTION IS BUILD A NEW ARENA. The ONLY option under consideration right now is to move to US Bank Arena as there is NO MONEY for a NEW ARENA.

This program will not go up from the middle of the BE w/o a NEW ARENA. $ drives a program especially w/ recruiting efforts and corporate sponsorships. BUILD A NEW ARENA!

Tom

If you contribute the $175 million to bulid a new arena, or call T Boone Pickens to do it, UC will be more than happy to build it. The money must be in place before any construction can begin on a new arena.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Not that I blame AK, but if he had at least tried to recruit and demonstrated a desire/plan to stay at UC, they may have hired him, perhaps even mid-season. But that would have made sense, yes. I will never argue that the adminsitration handled the separation well, because they botched it about as badly as one can.

Sorry but players can't be expected to sign as recruits unless they know who the HC will be.

AK never had 1 iota of interest in being HC at UC. Who can blame him?

[ralph1950]

Sorry but players can't be expected to sign as recruits unless they know who the HC will be.

AK never had 1 iota of interest in being HC at UC. Who can blame him?

That is very true, AK had no interest in being the UC head coach.

[OhioFootball]

How exactly did Huggins sell this program? Sure I heard him doing endorsements on the radio but I hear Mick as well. Golf outings, Mick does them also. Huggins is a painfully dry public speaker, Mick is better. Winning is the only difference between them right now (although not head to head!). As pointed out earlier, Mick has UC (after being decimated) right about where Huggs has WVU (left with good players). Mick just needs time and he'll almost surely exceed most of our expectations.

He turned around a program that was NONEXISTANT in a short period of time. Mick got to recruit the UC name. Did Huggins have that?

And UC is nowhere near where WVU is now. Sweet 16 last year and tournament bid again this year. And back to back great recruiting classes. Comparing UC to WVU as a whole isn't reasonable. Just because UC beat WVU doesn't mean they have a better future. Attendance, recruiting, and winning as a whole this year would say otherwise.

[OhioFootball]

That is very true, AK had no interest in being the UC head coach.

Very true. He said from day one he would never back stab the man that gave him his shot. Loyalty is something most people can only speak of. Andy Kennedy proved his. Others? Uh.. Uh...

[Forsure21]

He turned around a program that was NONEXISTANT in a short period of time. Mick got to recruit the UC name. Did Huggins have that?

And UC is nowhere near where WVU is now. Sweet 16 last year and tournament bid again this year. And back to back great recruiting classes. Comparing UC to WVU as a whole isn't reasonable. Just because UC beat WVU doesn't mean they have a better future. Attendance, recruiting, and winning as a whole this year would say otherwise.

Correct. Huggins brought an entrepreneurial spirit. He built the program to what it was it. It was his elbow and legwork. Thats why it was so tough for him to leave. Mick doesn't have that same entrepreneurial spirit. Just look at the student attendace- he can't even get them to the game. Kelly does have that spirit and we see it going on right as we speak.