Are you frustrated?

[BasketBySteveLogan]

Well imagine being a DePaul or St. John's fan.

Of course this ending to the reg. season is tough to take.. but try to keep in mind that our starting point guard, a Top 10 recruit at his position who can drain J's and get by ANYBODY, didn't play this season.

This team basically has never played together-- and Deonta isn't a point guard.

But these guys got to 18 wins, including wins at UNLV and GTown. If they beat DePaul and then can win one in the NIT---> 20-Win Season.

Not too shabby of an improvement over 13-19 huh?

[Forsure21]

Well imagine being a DePaul or St. John's fan.

Of course this ending to the reg. season is tough to take.. but try to keep in mind that our starting point guard, a Top 10 recruit at his position who can drain J's and get by ANYBODY, didn't play this season.

This team basically has never played together-- and Deonta isn't a point guard.

But these guys got to 18 wins, including wins at UNLV and GTown. If they beat DePaul and then can win one in the NIT---> 20-Win Season.

Not too shabby of an improvement over 13-19 huh?

You can look at like that or you can face the facts. We have 13 wins against teams with losing records or losing confrence records. So is it really better than 13-19? It looks better but Im not sure if it is. Finishing with the same confrence record as last year as well. The difference this year was we just played more cupcakes and won. I don't see progress in 13 wins against teams with losing overall or losing confrence record.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Well imagine being a DePaul or St. John's fan.

Of course this ending to the reg. season is tough to take.. but try to keep in mind that our starting point guard, a Top 10 recruit at his position who can drain J's and get by ANYBODY, didn't play this season.

This team basically has never played together-- and Deonta isn't a point guard.

But these guys got to 18 wins, including wins at UNLV and GTown. If they beat DePaul and then can win one in the NIT---> 20-Win Season.

Not too shabby of an improvement over 13-19 huh?

I remember a team that averaged 25 W per season from 1990 through 2005.

I can't too excited about improvement over 13-19.

[Billy Don]

Well imagine being a DePaul or St. John's fan.

Of course this ending to the reg. season is tough to take.. but try to keep in mind that our starting point guard, a Top 10 recruit at his position who can drain J's and get by ANYBODY, didn't play this season.

This team basically has never played together-- and Deonta isn't a point guard.

But these guys got to 18 wins, including wins at UNLV and GTown. If they beat DePaul and then can win one in the NIT---> 20-Win Season.

Not too shabby of an improvement over 13-19 huh?

Sure we had a great year if your standard is DePaul or other bottom feeders in the Big East. There is even hope we can make the NCAA next year. Still a long ways from what we were use to. I think fans should accept things as they really are and be happy with the NIT and forget about becoming a National power in college basketball again. Holding Mick to past standards is not fair. Huggins was a once ia a lifetime coach. Everyone should be happy we at least have a NIT coach. Like you said. It could be a lot worse and we could be DePaul fans. I say be happy with the NIT.

[Mick's Da Man]

I remember a team that averaged 25 W per season from 1990 through 2005.

I can't too excited about improvement over 13-19.

Are you frustrated?

Not as frustrated as I was in the 90's and early 2000's when we couldn't beat any high seeds in the tournament.

Yeah, I couldn't get that excited over those teams playing Tulane, Southern Miss, Canisius..............boring central.......basically padding their win totals against an easy conference and typically an easier OOC schedule. Huggs was the master at masking his OOC schedule with so-called good teams that nobody had ever heard of. Hilarious.

Ah yes.........those were the days of first and second round exits. Huggs with his 30 years of coaching, 1 final four and a couple of elit eights to hang his hat on, while never beating a higher seed.........yet people on this thread have the gall to complain that Mick didn't beat anybody this year. Seems like the naysayers/Huggs lovers would be all over Mick for beating a bunch of nobodies because Huggs lived off that. Apples to apples, baby! Face the facts and the truth!!! :D :D :D :D

[jplog]

Thank you, have you forgotten all the cupcakes Huggs scheduled? Then when we lost in the second round of the tourney we'd say we should schedule a tougher non-conf. Of course the C-USA had plenty of cupcakes within itself.

Mick 2
Huggs 0

[RobPoppeil]

Sure we had a great year if your standard is DePaul or other bottom feeders in the Big East. There is even hope we can make the NCAA next year. Still a long ways from what we were use to. I think fans should accept things as they really are and be happy with the NIT and forget about becoming a National power in college basketball again. Holding Mick to past standards is not fair. Huggins was a once ia a lifetime coach. Everyone should be happy we at least have a NIT coach. Like you said. It could be a lot worse and we could be DePaul fans. I say be happy with the NIT.

So you think we should lower our standards and become a worse team? That doesn't make any sense. Unfortunately too many are buying into this.

[jplog]

So you think we should lower our standards and become a worse team? That doesn't make any sense. Unfortunately too many are buying into this.

Dude, it's called sarcasm.

[RobPoppeil]

Dude, it's called sarcasm.

Sadly for a lot on this board it isn't!!!

[Pie Hole]

Not as frustrated as I was in the 90's and early 2000's when we couldn't beat any high seeds in the tournament.

Yeah, I couldn't get that excited over those teams playing Tulane, Southern Miss, Canisius..............boring central.......basically padding their win totals against an easy conference and typically an easier OOC schedule. Huggs was the master at masking his OOC schedule with so-called good teams that nobody had ever heard of. Hilarious.

Ah yes.........those were the days of first and second round exits. Huggs with his 30 years of coaching, 1 final four and a couple of elit eights to hang his hat on, while never beating a higher seed.........yet people on this thread have the gall to complain that Mick didn't beat anybody this year. Seems like the naysayers/Huggs lovers would be all over Mick for beating a bunch of nobodies because Huggs lived off that. Apples to apples, baby! Face the facts and the truth!!! :D :D :D :D


So you're telling me that you were more frustrated by getting knocked out in the second round of the NCAAs than by not making it at all?????? What kind of rationale is that? That's like saying you were dissapointed in the stock market 5 years ago when you were only showing a 20-30% increase on your investments. By that logic, you must love how your 401 K is looking these days.

[coach]

Thank you, have you forgotten all the cupcakes Huggs scheduled? Then when we lost in the second round of the tourney we'd say we should schedule a tougher non-conf. Of course the C-USA had plenty of cupcakes within itself.

Mick 2
Huggs 0

this is a very valid point, and also you need to consider that in that league we leaned heavily on juco guys to keep the roster competitive year in and year out which you could do in that league format. the competitiveness of the new league is like playing in an ncaa tournament each year during jan/feb, so the format has clearly changed. also, ncaa rules do not allow you to load up on juco's in the same manner you could in the past. you have to develop players consistently and balance classes to be a perennial top half of this group, but you can't drop games at home to seton hall, usf on the road and get blanked by providence. those three games have probably shaped this season more than not beating any of the big guys. they leave us without a clear picture of where we are for the future. frustrated, somewhat, uncertain, **** yes.

[Mick's Da Man]

So you're telling me that you were more frustrated by getting knocked out in the second round of the NCAAs than by not making it at all?????? What kind of rationale is that? That's like saying you were dissapointed in the stock market 5 years ago when you were only showing a 20-30% increase on your investments. By that logic, you must love how your 401 K is looking these days.

The difference is, the Huggs jocksniffers are referring to his seasons when he had the program back on his feet.

Next season, UC is back on it's feet and NCAA Tournament bound. If they aren't. I will be upset.

[Bcatfan08]

You can look at like that or you can face the facts. We have 13 wins against teams with losing records or losing confrence records. So is it really better than 13-19? It looks better but Im not sure if it is. Finishing with the same confrence record as last year as well. The difference this year was we just played more cupcakes and won. I don't see progress in 13 wins against teams with losing overall or losing confrence record.

Firstly, it's 12 wins against those teams and it's 9 wins against teams with losing records.

Like others said, you really can not complain our schedule had cupcakes in the OOC schedule. We have an overall SOS around 30. When Huggs was here it was well into the 100's. He scheduled worse teams in the OOC schedule and played maybe one or two teams in conference that were top 25 caliber. I'm sure if we were still in Conference USA we'd be at 25 wins and in the tourney easily, but we aren't in that conference anymore. The frustrating part is that we move up to a better conference and some of these fans feel we should be dominating the much, much better conference.

What's also frustrating is pointing out that Huggs is doing alright at WVU right now, when they only have a few more wins. They aren't doing that much better. They have a few more wins, but they also had a much, much easier OOC schedule. Which is something Huggs is a master at doing. Their marquee matchups in their OOC schedule were against OSU, Kentucky, Iowa, Duquesne, and Mississippi. Notice a similarity among those teams? None are or have ever been ranked. OSU happens to be the only team they played among those powers that even have a winning conference record. Maybe if Mick would have followed his former boss' lead and scheduled cupcakes, we'd be a tournament team right now.

[RobPoppeil]

Their marquee matchups in their OOC schedule were against OSU, Kentucky, Iowa, Duquesne, and Mississippi. Notice a similarity among those teams? None are or have ever been ranked. O

OSU and Kentucky were both ranked in the AP at times this season. Try another argument.

[Pie Hole]

Firstly, it's 12 wins against those teams and it's 9 wins against teams with losing records.

Like others said, you really can not complain our schedule had cupcakes in the OOC schedule. We have an overall SOS around 30. When Huggs was here it was well into the 100's. He scheduled worse teams in the OOC schedule and played maybe one or two teams in conference that were top 25 caliber. I'm sure if we were still in Conference USA we'd be at 25 wins and in the tourney easily, but we aren't in that conference anymore. The frustrating part is that we move up to a better conference and some of these fans feel we should be dominating the much, much better conference.

What's also frustrating is pointing out that Huggs is doing alright at WVU right now, when they only have a few more wins. They aren't doing that much better. They have a few more wins, but they also had a much, much easier OOC schedule. Which is something Huggs is a master at doing. Their marquee matchups in their OOC schedule were against OSU, Kentucky, Iowa, Duquesne, and Mississippi. Notice a similarity among those teams? None are or have ever been ranked. OSU happens to be the only team they played among those powers that even have a winning conference record. Maybe if Mick would have followed his former boss' lead and scheduled cupcakes, we'd be a tournament team right now.

Are you serious? You're telling me that OSU, Kentucky, Iowa, and Mississippi is a weaker OOC schedule than ours? UCs marquee OOC matchups were UNLV, Florida State, and UAB. Man, this isn't even an argument.

[anbuc88]

Are you serious? You're telling me that OSU, Kentucky, Iowa, and Mississippi is a weaker OOC schedule than ours? UCs marquee OOC matchups were UNLV, Florida State, and UAB. Man, this isn't even an argument.

Check the schedule. Xavier, Memphis, and Mississippi State was part of our OOC schedule. Still think WVU's is stronger? Didn't think so.

[Bcatfan08]

Are you serious? You're telling me that OSU, Kentucky, Iowa, and Mississippi is a weaker OOC schedule than ours? UCs marquee OOC matchups were UNLV, Florida State, and UAB. Man, this isn't even an argument.

What? You forget the top two teams, Memphis and Xavier? Two teams who have been ranked in the top ten this season. I wasn't mentioning OOC wins for WVU. Those were just the teams they played. I do agree with you that WVU has an OOC schedule as tough as ours if you take off half of the top teams we played.

[anbuc88]

Are you serious? You're telling me that OSU, Kentucky, Iowa, and Mississippi is a weaker OOC schedule than ours? UCs marquee OOC matchups were UNLV, Florida State, and UAB. Man, this isn't even an argument.

Check the schedule. Xavier, Memphis, and Mississippi State was part of our OOC schedule. Still think WVU's is stronger? Didn't think so. As they say, if you don't know what you are talking about, shut your ...

[Bcatfan08]

OSU and Kentucky were both ranked in the AP at times this season. Try another argument.

Well I stand corrected. OSU was ranked until mid-way through December and Kentucky made it to #24 once. That's probably why WVU couldn't beat Kentucky. I also forgot to add that WVU played Davidson, for a loss.

We can put the OOC schedules in terms of tourney teams. WVU played against three possible tourney teams: Kentucky, OSU, and Davidson. WVU beat only OSU of those three. Davidson is going to be in and the other two are bubble teams on the outside of the bubble right now. UC has played 6 possible tourney teams: Memphis, Xavier, UNLV, Mississippi State, UAB, and FSU. Memphis, Xavier, and FSU are locks for the tourney and all three are going to be at worst 4 seeds or higher. Mississippi State, UAB, and UNLV all have 19 or more wins and are on the outside of the bubble. UC beat all three. WVU played 3 possible tourney teams and UC played 6 possible tourney teams in their OOC schedule.

That's half of our OOC schedule played against possible tourney teams. There's no question who has the tougher OOC schedule and maybe Mick should have taken Huggins' lead by scheduling cupcakes to make the tourney. I think the reason we're not a tourney team right now could be that we played a far too tough OOC schedule and it wore us down.

[Pie Hole]

Firstly, it's 12 wins against those teams and it's 9 wins against teams with losing records.

Like others said, you really can not complain our schedule had cupcakes in the OOC schedule. We have an overall SOS around 30. When Huggs was here it was well into the 100's. He scheduled worse teams in the OOC schedule and played maybe one or two teams in conference that were top 25 caliber. I'm sure if we were still in Conference USA we'd be at 25 wins and in the tourney easily, but we aren't in that conference anymore. The frustrating part is that we move up to a better conference and some of these fans feel we should be dominating the much, much better conference.

What's also frustrating is pointing out that Huggs is doing alright at WVU right now, when they only have a few more wins. They aren't doing that much better. They have a few more wins, but they also had a much, much easier OOC schedule. Which is something Huggs is a master at doing. Their marquee matchups in their OOC schedule were against OSU, Kentucky, Iowa, Duquesne, and Mississippi. Notice a similarity among those teams? None are or have ever been ranked. OSU happens to be the only team they played among those powers that even have a winning conference record. Maybe if Mick would have followed his former boss' lead and scheduled cupcakes, we'd be a tournament team right now.


Lol, yet another inaccuracy. Huggins never had a SOS ranking in the 100's. Let's look at his last 7 years.

1999 SOS ranking - 35
2000 SOS ranking - 5
2001 SOS ranking - 64
2002 SOS ranking - 24
2003 SOS ranking - 9
2004 SOS ranking - 23

Where are you getting your info????

[Cats4Ever]

They have a few more wins, but they also had a much, much easier OOC schedule.

WVU ooc rank = 119.

UC ooc = 197.

Link: Pomeroy Rating http://kenpom.com/rate.php

Schedule rank:

WVU = 10

UC = 37

Link: Sagarin rating http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkt0809.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Ark Pine Bluff? South Dakota?

[Pie Hole]

WVU ooc rank = 119.

UC ooc = 197.

Link: Pomeroy Rating http://kenpom.com/rate.php

Schedule rank:

WVU = 10

UC = 37

Link: Sagarin rating http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkt0809.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Ark Pine Bluff? South Dakota?

I guess that ends this argument!!!

[RobPoppeil]

Well I stand corrected. OSU was ranked until mid-way through December and Kentucky made it to #24 once. That's probably why WVU couldn't beat Kentucky. I also forgot to add that WVU played Davidson, for a loss.


OSU was ranked in February. Your arguments look sillier and sillier when you made up the facts. Heck why don't you just mention how we played UNC and Duke while you're at it?

[Bcatfan08]

OSU was ranked in February. Your arguments look sillier and sillier when you made up the facts. Heck why don't you just mention how we played UNC and Duke while you're at it?

Made up the facts? Please post any other facts made up. I missed that OSU and Kentucky cracked the top 25. You're right. They are quality teams.

[Bcatfan08]

WVU ooc rank = 119.

UC ooc = 197.

Link: Pomeroy Rating http://kenpom.com/rate.php

Schedule rank:

WVU = 10

UC = 37

Link: Sagarin rating http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkt0809.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Ark Pine Bluff? South Dakota?

That proves nothing. You reference an awful ratings system for OOC rank and then Sagarin for total schedule rank. All that means is that WVU's conference schedule was tougher. I won't accept anything that Pomeroy puts out considering any NCAA analyst won't consider it.

[Pie Hole]

Firstly, it's 12 wins against those teams and it's 9 wins against teams with losing records.

Like others said, you really can not complain our schedule had cupcakes in the OOC schedule. We have an overall SOS around 30. When Huggs was here it was well into the 100's. He scheduled worse teams in the OOC schedule and played maybe one or two teams in conference that were top 25 caliber. I'm sure if we were still in Conference USA we'd be at 25 wins and in the tourney easily, but we aren't in that conference anymore. The frustrating part is that we move up to a better conference and some of these fans feel we should be dominating the much, much better conference.

What's also frustrating is pointing out that Huggs is doing alright at WVU right now, when they only have a few more wins. They aren't doing that much better. They have a few more wins, but they also had a much, much easier OOC schedule. Which is something Huggs is a master at doing. Their marquee matchups in their OOC schedule were against OSU, Kentucky, Iowa, Duquesne, and Mississippi. Notice a similarity among those teams? None are or have ever been ranked. OSU happens to be the only team they played among those powers that even have a winning conference record. Maybe if Mick would have followed his former boss' lead and scheduled cupcakes, we'd be a tournament team right now.


Does this ring a bell?????
Certainly looks like made up facts to me.
Please research more thoroughly before you post this stuff.

[Pie Hole]

That proves nothing. You reference an awful ratings system for OOC rank and then Sagarin for total schedule rank. All that means is that WVU's conference schedule was tougher. I won't accept anything that Pomeroy puts out considering any NCAA analyst won't consider it.

Come on man!! Are you being serious?

In that case I won't accept the NCAA's decision to have a tournament to decide a champion. I hereby declare the Cincinnati Bearcats 2009 NCAA Champions! Let the celebration begin!

[jeffto]

I won't accept anything that Pomeroy puts out considering any NCAA analyst won't consider it.Please name some analysts that won't consider it. Or, are you just counting yourself.

By the way, most NCAA analysts don't make up stats or try to turn personal opinion into "facts."

[RobPoppeil]

Made up the facts? Please post any other facts made up. I missed that OSU and Kentucky cracked the top 25. You're right. They are quality teams.

Let's see. First UK and OSU were never ranked. Then OSU was only ranked in December. There's two examples.

[Forsure21]

Firstly, it's 12 wins against those teams and it's 9 wins against teams with losing records.

Like others said, you really can not complain our schedule had cupcakes in the OOC schedule. We have an overall SOS around 30. When Huggs was here it was well into the 100's. He scheduled worse teams in the OOC schedule and played maybe one or two teams in conference that were top 25 caliber. I'm sure if we were still in Conference USA we'd be at 25 wins and in the tourney easily, but we aren't in that conference anymore. The frustrating part is that we move up to a better conference and some of these fans feel we should be dominating the much, much better conference.

What's also frustrating is pointing out that Huggs is doing alright at WVU right now, when they only have a few more wins. They aren't doing that much better. They have a few more wins, but they also had a much, much easier OOC schedule. Which is something Huggs is a master at doing. Their marquee matchups in their OOC schedule were against OSU, Kentucky, Iowa, Duquesne, and Mississippi. Notice a similarity among those teams? None are or have ever been ranked. OSU happens to be the only team they played among those powers that even have a winning conference record. Maybe if Mick would have followed his former boss' lead and scheduled cupcakes, we'd be a tournament team right now.


Its 12 wins plus 1 against a non qualifying opponent in South Dakota. So again. It's 13 wins that just don't measure up. THen we have only 1 win against team that will play in the NCAA and that is WVU. 1 vs. EKU, then 3 against some NIT teams in UNLV, UAB, and Miss St.

[Bcatfan08]

Please name some analysts that won't consider it. Or, are you just counting yourself.

By the way, most NCAA analysts don't make up stats or try to turn personal opinion into "facts."

I have never heard anyone ever mention Pomeroy on tv. They always refer to RPI or top 25 rank. ESPN has shown every bubble team's resume to get into the tourney. When have they ever referred to the Pomeroy system for that resume? They don't. They refer to the RPI. You're just not using it because it doesn't support your arguement. I'll stick with the ratings system that the NCAA uses to pick its teams. You can use the one that bloggers refer to.

[Bcatfan08]

Its 12 wins plus 1 against a non qualifying opponent in South Dakota. So again. It's 13 wins that just don't measure up. THen we have only 1 win against team that will play in the NCAA and that is WVU. 1 vs. EKU, then 3 against some NIT teams in UNLV, UAB, and Miss St.

It's either you include South Dakota or not. If you include them then they have a winning record. If you aren't going to include them then it's 12 wins. Otherwise you're criteria to be one of those 13 teams is a losing conference record, or a losing overall record, or being a non-qualifying opponent. Should have clarified that. Lots of criteria for that list.

[Bcatfan08]

Come on man!! Are you being serious?

In that case I won't accept the NCAA's decision to have a tournament to decide a champion. I hereby declare the Cincinnati Bearcats 2009 NCAA Champions! Let the celebration begin!

I'm not discrediting that WVU has played a tough schedule, but the ratings system used for OOC rank is rarely ever used. I'm not arguing that WVU had a bit harder conference schedule, but that their OOC schedule was not harder.

[Pie Hole]

Lol, yet another inaccuracy. Huggins never had a SOS ranking in the 100's. Let's look at his last 7 years.

1999 SOS ranking - 35
2000 SOS ranking - 5
2001 SOS ranking - 64
2002 SOS ranking - 24
2003 SOS ranking - 9
2004 SOS ranking - 23

Where are you getting your info????

This brings up an interesting question. If Conference USA was so terrible, and our OOC scheduling was so bad; then how did we manage to obtain such good SOS rankings throughout the years?

[Forsure21]

This brings up an interesting question. If Conference USA was so terrible, and our OOC scheduling was so bad; then how did we manage to obtain such good SOS rankings throughout the years?

Some of the teams we played OOC included Wake Forest, Ok St, Miss St(they were good that year- Logan scored like 40), Purdue, #5 Oregon.

We always played made for TV games. Also, the Mid Majors we scheduled were for the most part schools that finished in the top 3 of their confrence or won their confrence tournament.

[Pie Hole]

Some of the teams we played OOC included Wake Forest, Ok St, Miss St(they were good that year- Logan scored like 40), Purdue, #5 Oregon.

We always played made for TV games. Also, the Mid Majors we scheduled were for the most part schools that finished in the top 3 of their confrence or won their confrence tournament.

I can also remember a not too shabby North Carolina team that we played early in the year in 1999. If I remember correctly it was a #1 vs. #7matchup. In fact we played 3 ranked teams in our first 8 games that season.

[Lobot]

Calm down a little bit guys. You've veered into argument territory.

[Doss]

And his average record was 25 - 8

Lol, yet another inaccuracy. Huggins never had a SOS ranking in the 100's. Let's look at his last 7 years.

1999 SOS ranking - 35
2000 SOS ranking - 5
2001 SOS ranking - 64
2002 SOS ranking - 24
2003 SOS ranking - 9
2004 SOS ranking - 23

Where are you getting your info????

[jeffto]

I'll stick with the ratings system that the NCAA uses to pick its teams. You can use the one that bloggers refer to.What does "your" preferred system have as OOC SOS for 2008 vs 2009? I'm open to being wrong. Are you?

[Mick's Da Man]

And his average record was 25 - 8

In a piece of crap conference where he padded his win totals, but when he had to play real competition in the NCAA Tournament, he never beat a higher seed. Yeah, keep rewriting history and conveniently leaving out the details. I'm sure Davidson's coach will have some nice win totals down the road too playing in his tough conference. :rolleyes:

Might have behooved him to play someone tough during the real season and beat them before pretending to be a contender in the Big Dance.

[Forsure21]

In a piece of crap conference where he padded his win totals, but when he had to play real competition in the NCAA Tournament, he never beat a higher seed. Yeah, keep rewriting history and conveniently leaving out the details. I'm sure Davidson's coach will have some nice win totals down the road too playing in his tough conference. :rolleyes:

Might have behooved him to play someone tough during the real season and beat them before pretending to be a contender in the Big Dance.

Huggins sold over 180,000 tickets a year for the university. The guy was an entrepeneur.

[Mick's Da Man]

Huggins sold over 180,000 tickets a year for the university. The guy was an entrepeneur.

Since you brought it up.

Yeah, he really knew how to entertain a crowd with his drinking and puking. He was a real ladies man too, which certainly helps sell tickets, unless those ladies are the wives of two of the school's biggest boosters. ;) :D

[Lobot]

Let's not rehash Huggins departure yet again.

[RedRocker]

Let's not rehash Huggins departure yet again.

I agree. Move on folks.

I'm frustrated with the collapses the past two seasons. That's coaching! Get it done (NCAAs) next year Mick or you're toast.

[Pie Hole]

In a piece of crap conference where he padded his win totals, but when he had to play real competition in the NCAA Tournament, he never beat a higher seed. Yeah, keep rewriting history and conveniently leaving out the details. I'm sure Davidson's coach will have some nice win totals down the road too playing in his tough conference. :rolleyes:

Might have behooved him to play someone tough during the real season and beat them before pretending to be a contender in the Big Dance.


Once again......if the conference was so bad and the OOC scheduling was terrible how did UC manage to have such a good SOS ranking?

Maybe you should pay attention to the stats and facts before you spout off at the mouth about poor competition. Looks like you're the one that is "re-writing history.

[Forsure21]

I agree. Move on folks.

I'm frustrated with the collapses the past two seasons. That's coaching! Get it done (NCAAs) next year Mick or you're toast.

I think Mick is going to get it done. It sucks because im getting to the point where I feel bad for him. Nothing worse than failing your dream job. I just hope we see marked improvement next year.

[carolinacatfan]

I've said it before and I'll try to make the point with facts. Outside of the top 10 or so teams in the country everyone has proven they can lose to quality NCAA tourney type teams. However the difference becomes can you beat any of them.

For instance comparing WVU v. UC. UC has only one win against a NCAA team and that's WVU. WVU has beaten OSU (bubble), Marquette, Providence and Nova.

WVU- all losses are to NCAA teams with exception of UC and UK.
UC-losses to two non tourney teams usf and seton hall.

There really is not a comparison. I'm not supporting Huggs or bashing Mick, just stating facts on this season alone.

[Mick's Da Man]

Once again......if the conference was so bad and the OOC scheduling was terrible how did UC manage to have such a good SOS ranking?

Maybe you should pay attention to the stats and facts before you spout off at the mouth about poor competition. Looks like you're the one that is "re-writing history.

Maybe you should pay attention to the fact that Huggs never beat a higher seed in the NCAA Tournament before you spout off at the mouth.

I have been an ardent UC supporter for years, and no matter what the facts said during Huggs years at UC, they were skewed. One of the few instances where your eyes told you more than the facts did. But go ahead and and keep your fuzzy memories about Huggs. While I'm thankful for UC's resurgence by Huggs, which was done under total fan apathy, after surviving the Yates era.........Cronin has suffered because he's had to follow the coach that rebuilt the program, yet in the same breath, took it down. Now the fans expect miracles, while he rebuilds in the toughest conference in the country, with no fan apathy.

The Big East will better prepare UC for the NCAA Tournament. Mick will go farther, more often, than Huggs ever did.

[Pie Hole]

Maybe you should pay attention to the fact that Huggs never beat a higher seed in the NCAA Tournament before you spout off at the mouth.

I have been an ardent UC supporter for years, and no matter what the facts said during Huggs years at UC, they were skewed. One of the few instances where your eyes told you more than the facts did. But go ahead and and keep your fuzzy memories about Huggs. While I'm thankful for UC's resurgence by Huggs, which was done under total fan apathy, after surviving the Yates era.........Cronin has suffered because he's had to follow the coach that rebuilt the program, yet in the same breath, took it down. Now the fans expect miracles, while he rebuilds in the toughest conference in the country, with no fan apathy.

The Big East will better prepare UC for the NCAA Tournament. Mick will go farther, more often, than Huggs ever did.


At no point did I state that Huggs always lived up to expectations in the tournament. However, you consistently belittle him for putting together such a week OOC schedule and playing in a week conference. As I've asked on 2 seperate posts now; how was it possible for UC to have such a good SOS ranking in those years? You still haven't answered that question.

I'm sorry, but your posts contain a perfect combination of arrogance and ignorance that really hit a nerve with me. You never bother to check out the facts before you post. You are excellent at posting made up stats in this forum (which several of us have proven are wrong).

As for Mick, I hope you're right about him taking this program far beyond anything that Huggs accomplished (I truly mean that). But my "fuzzy memories" about Huggs are that of a man that took us to 14 straight NCAA appearances. Granted, the outcomes were not always favorable. But I, for one, can at least appreciate the opportunity of playing in the tournament (something we've not seen in a while).

By the way, I'll hold you to that guarantee that Mick will take us further and more often than Huggs. I'll also agree with a majority of the members in this forum that it better start next year.

[Lobot]

This Huggs vs Cronin OOC scheduling argument is devolving into Huggs vs Cronin. If it continues to head that direction Keith will most likely close the thread, if I don't do it first. Tread lightly.

[Forsure21]

This Huggs vs Cronin OOC scheduling argument is devolving into Huggs vs Cronin. If it continues to head that direction Keith will most likely close the thread, if I don't do it first. Tread lightly.

What is wrong with comparing a current coach with the programs all time winningest coach? Isn't it pretty common at every school>

[Billy Don]

I agree. Move on folks.

I'm frustrated with the collapses the past two seasons. That's coaching! Get it done (NCAAs) next year Mick or you're toast.
Here's an idea! I think Mick should stay home and watch the game on TV. Mick says the players don't do what he tells them anyway. He tells them not to shoot so many 3's and they brick up over 30 a game anyway etc. The players have played DePaul already so they know what they need to do to beat them. They will play loose and probably win by 20. If Mick goes to the game he will just tell them a bunch of crap that will get their heads all messed up and hurt their game. Stay home Mick! We want a win!

[ralph1950]

Here's an idea! I think Mick should stay home and watch the game on TV. Mick says the players don't do what he tells them anyway. He tells them not to shoot so many 3's and they brick up over 30 a game anyway etc. The players have played DePaul already so they know what they need to do to beat them. They will play loose and probably win by 20. If Mick goes to the game he will just tell them a bunch of crap that will get their heads all messed up and hurt their game. Stay home Mick! We want a win!

Billy Don, if you are going to live in the past you might as well live in 1958 through 1963. 1992 to 2005 pale in comparison. Those 6 years were the best 6 years in Bearcat BB history. Neither you or I have experienced success like that again. Those 6 years under the 2 best coaches UC has ever had, Smith and Jucker and with the best player UC has ever had, Oscar, and the best team UC ever had, 1961-1962, Thacker, Yates, Bonham, Hogue, Wilson, etc. will more than likely never be repeated.

Mick is an excellent coach. Why you cannot get it I do not understand. Mick started with nothing. What he has done in 3 seasons is quite remarkable. The media gets it, knowledgable fans get it.

[Mick's Da Man]

At no point did I state that Huggs always lived up to expectations in the tournament. However, you consistently belittle him for putting together such a week OOC schedule and playing in a week conference. As I've asked on 2 seperate posts now; how was it possible for UC to have such a good SOS ranking in those years? You still haven't answered that question.

I'm sorry, but your posts contain a perfect combination of arrogance and ignorance that really hit a nerve with me. You never bother to check out the facts before you post. You are excellent at posting made up stats in this forum (which several of us have proven are wrong).

As for Mick, I hope you're right about him taking this program far beyond anything that Huggs accomplished (I truly mean that). But my "fuzzy memories" about Huggs are that of a man that took us to 14 straight NCAA appearances. Granted, the outcomes were not always favorable. But I, for one, can at least appreciate the opportunity of playing in the tournament (something we've not seen in a while).

By the way, I'll hold you to that guarantee that Mick will take us further and more often than Huggs. I'll also agree with a majority of the members in this forum that it better start next year.

I don't post fact based posts?

Gee, in the last 2 days, I've cited Dan Hoard, cutting and pasting his articles and links.........I've cited the rpi, and posted multiple comparisons.

What have you posted? Nothing. You spew out information with no links or articles to back it up.

But I don't really care because Mick did the right thing this year. He knew he lost John Williamson, Marvin Gentry, Marcus Sikes, Jamual Warren, and Adam H. to graduation and would be returning a very young team. Have you ever checked some of the schedules these other big 6 conference teams have?

Pittburgh's OOC schedule consisted of............Fairleigh Dickinson, Miami (OH), Akron, Indiana (PA-Division II), Belmont, Texas Tech (finished 11th in the Big 12), Washington State (finished 7th in the PAC-10), Duquesne, Vermont, UMBC, Siena, Florida State.............wow, impressive. UC's OOC schedule was far more impressive.

West Virginia OOC schedule. Huggs played 3 teams that might be considered "tough" games. All 3 of those teams are on the bubble to make the NCAA Tournament - Ohio State, Kentucky, and Davidson. The rest of his OOC schedule? Elon, Longwood, Delaware State, Iowa (near last place in the Big Ten), Kentucky, Mississippi (16-14), Cleveland State, Davidson, Duquesne, Miami(OH), Radford. Woo-hoo!!! Tough Schedule. (sarcasm)

Louisville's OOC schedule...............Morehead State, South Alabama, Western Kentucky, Indiana State, Ohio University, Lamar, Austin Peay, Mississippi, Minnesota, UAB, UNLV, Kentucky. I'll give him the last 4 games on that schedule.

UC played 6 tough OOC games - UNLV, Florida State, UAB, Xavier, Memphis, and Mississippi State. 5 of those teams are locks for the NCAA Tournament.

Syracuse had 3 tough OOC games - Florida (bubble team), Kansas, and Memphis. They also played Virginia (10-17), but that's not saying much.

Marquette had 4 tough OOC games - Dayton (lost to them), Wisconsin, Tennessee (lost), and I guess NC State (who finished 10th in the ACC).

Wake Forest OOC Schedule............NC Central, NC Wilmington, Winston-Salem, CSU Fullerton, UTEP, Baylor, Indiana, Bucknell, Wright State, Richmond, East Carolina, Radford, BYU.

You act like Mick's scheduling is a piece of cake. People on this board should go check out the scheduling of many of the top teams in the country.

Then get back to me with a legit argument.

Mick had every reason to go soft this year, and in the end, his schedule was tougher than most. So quit whining.

[RobPoppeil]

Mick is an excellent coach. Why you cannot get it I do not understand. Mick started with nothing. What he has done in 3 seasons is quite remarkable. The media gets it, knowledgable fans get it.

If he is an excellent coach why do his teams fail at the end of the year every year? Excellent coaches have their teams peak at the end of the year not choke.

[RobPoppeil]

[QUOTE=ralph1950;67900]Why do Bob Huggins teams choke almost every year? 10 out of 14 NCAA tourneys at UC the team failed to get past the second round of the NCAA tourney. Two years in a row against Mick his team has choked, heavily favored to win both games.
QUOTE]

Bob Huiggins has nothing to do with why this team choked down the stretch. You didn't address the question which if Mick is such a good coach why does his team choke down the strech every year? It was a nice cover up and all but it didn't address the question. I'm guessing you don't want to touch that because you would see Mick isn't taking care of business.

[Bcatfan08]

[QUOTE=ralph1950;67900]Why do Bob Huggins teams choke almost every year? 10 out of 14 NCAA tourneys at UC the team failed to get past the second round of the NCAA tourney. Two years in a row against Mick his team has choked, heavily favored to win both games.
QUOTE]

Bob Huiggins has nothing to do with why this team choked down the stretch. You didn't address the question which if Mick is such a good coach why does his team choke down the strech every year? It was a nice cover up and all but it didn't address the question. I'm guessing you don't want to touch that because you would see Mick isn't taking care of business.

Are you just copying and pasting this post? It's been on a couple threads now. Just start your own thread asking this instead of adding it to all the threads.

[RobPoppeil]

[QUOTE=RobPoppeil;67902]

Are you just copying and pasting this post? It's been on a couple threads now. Just start your own thread asking this instead of adding it to all the threads.

Ralph keeps bringing it up. Talk to him.

[Bcatfan08]

If he is an excellent coach why do his teams fail at the end of the year every year? Excellent coaches have their teams peak at the end of the year not choke.

Well I guess by your standards Thad Matta, Billy Donovan, and Billy Gillespie aren't excellent coaches. All of their teams did not peak at the end of the season and all three went from being tournament locks to bubble teams within 5-10 games down the stretch and all three losing to teams they shouldn't be losing to.

[RobPoppeil]

Well I guess by your standards Thad Matta, Billy Donovan, and Billy Gillespie aren't excellent coaches. All of their teams did not peak at the end of the season and all three went from being tournament locks to bubble teams within 5-10 games down the stretch and all three losing to teams they shouldn't be losing to.

All three have a history of winning. Something Mick doesn't have. You earn some leeway when you compete in Final Fours. And at least 2 of the coaches will be playing the in Big Dance.

[Mick's Da Man]

All three have a history of winning. Something Mick doesn't have. You earn some leeway when you compete in Final Fours. And at least 2 of the coaches will be playing the in Big Dance.

And Mick took two Murray State teams to the Big Dance twice. He was a small school playing against the big boys, so getting there was achievement enough. Huggs never did much at Akron, so Mick did more than Huggs.

Mick has had THREE SEASONS AT UC TO REBUILD A COMPLETELY DECIMATED PROGRAM. Let me repeat for the hard of comprehending type people. THREE SEASONS.

What is this history of failing? He's made the NCAA Tournament twice in three seasons at Murray State and then took a job nobody else wanting rebuilding UC after Huggins decimated it.

How conveniently you choose to forget the facts REPEATEDLLY.

[RobPoppeil]

And Mick took two Murray State teams to the Big Dance twice. He was a small school playing against the big boys, so getting there was achievement enough. Huggs never did much at Akron, so Mick did more than Huggs.

Mick has had THREE SEASONS AT UC TO REBUILD A COMPLETELY DECIMATED PROGRAM. Let me repeat for the hard of comprehending type people. THREE SEASONS.

What is this history of failing? He's made the NCAA Tournament twice in three seasons at Murray State and then took a job nobody else wanting rebuilding UC after Huggins decimated it.

How conveniently you choose to forget the facts REPEATEDLLY.

Last three season UC has choked down the streched every year. Not exactly a stellar record is it?

Again? Huggins has nothing to do with Mick. You can keep going to that well but it won't yield anything.

And yes Mick was able to get to the tourney at Murray State. Not exactly the same as the final four runs Matta, Gillespie and Donovan have now is it? How much leeway you really think Murray State should buy anyone? Which of course is what I mentioned. How conveniently you choose to forget that fact.

[Bcatfan08]

Last three season UC has choked down the streched every year. Not exactly a stellar record is it?

Again? Huggins has nothing to do with Mick. You can keep going to that well but it won't yield anything.

And yes Mick was able to get to the tourney at Murray State. Not exactly the same as the final four runs Matta, Gillespie and Donovan have now is it? How much leeway you really think Murray State should buy anyone? Which of course is what I mentioned. How conveniently you choose to forget that fact.

You get leeway when your first season required you take a player from the football team to make a full roster. You get leeway when your second season requires you to play half a dozen freshmen. He has had a lot to deal with at UC and there are some fans with unrealistic ideas that we should return to greatness just a couple of seasons from being completed depleted. I'm sure before the season you had plans to have us be the #1 seed in the tourney, but some more realistic fans thought the NIT was a bit more likely.

[RobPoppeil]

You get leeway when your first season required you take a player from the football team to make a full roster. You get leeway when your second season requires you to play half a dozen freshmen. He has had a lot to deal with at UC and there are some fans with unrealistic ideas that we should return to greatness just a couple of seasons from being completed depleted. I'm sure before the season you had plans to have us be the #1 seed in the tourney, but some more realistic fans thought the NIT was a bit more likely.

Bad news! This is his third year? You also lose a lot of the leeway when you continually choke down the stretch.

[Bcatfan08]

Bad news! This is his third year? You also lose a lot of the leeway when you continually choke down the stretch.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Bad news because this is only his third year. He is only one year past those awful situations where he needed a football player and a team full of freshmen. You get leeway when you're on your first year of players of a bit of experience and not going to school for a football scholarship.

[Mick's Da Man]

Bad news! This is his third year? You also lose a lot of the leeway when you continually choke down the stretch.

Dude, you lose total credibility with each response you post. You have become the laughingstock of this board with your negativity and wool you've pulled over your eyes.

I posted on another thread the first five seasons of several of the greatest college head coaches of all time either still coaching or just recently retired. They fared no better than Mick has. Gee, that's a surprise.

[RobPoppeil]

Dude, you lose total credibility with each response you post. You have become the laughingstock of this board with your negativity and wool you've pulled over your eyes.

I posted on another thread the first five seasons of several of the greatest college head coaches of all time either still coaching or just recently retired. They fared no better than Mick has. Gee, that's a surprise.

I have no credibility but you can't explain why the teams keep choking down the stretch. Instead it is simply Mick's Da Man from you. The wool is clearly over your eyes.

By the way, all of your great coaches are from a really long time ago. I'm sure nothing has changed in college basketball since.

[Bcatfan08]

I have no credibility but you can't explain why the teams keep choking down the stretch. Instead it is simply Mick's Da Man from you. The wool is clearly over your eyes.

By the way, all of your great coaches are from a really long time ago. I'm sure nothing has changed in college basketball since.

Could you explain why you think Cronin's last two teams failed down the stretch? You keep asking. I'd like to hear your opinion on this.

[Mick's Da Man]

I have no credibility but you can't explain why the teams keep choking down the stretch. Instead it is simply Mick's Da Man from you. The wool is clearly over your eyes.

By the way, all of your great coaches are from a really long time ago. I'm sure nothing has changed in college basketball since.

Gary Williams and Coach K are still coaching. Dean Smith retired in the last 5 to 8 years and is one of the greatest coaches of all time. Lute Olsen just retired this year. WTF are you talking about? They're from a really long time ago?????? :eek::rolleyes:

[RobPoppeil]

Could you explain why you think Cronin's last two teams failed down the stretch? You keep asking. I'd like to hear your opinion on this.

Poor coaching!! Like this year, maybe not shoot 30 threes and work on breaking a zone. It isn't rocket science to see where they are failing.

[RobPoppeil]

Gary Williams and Coach K are still coaching. Dean Smith retired in the last 5 to 8 years and is one of the greatest coaches of all time. Lute Olsen just retired this year. WTF are you talking about? They're from a really long time ago?????? :eek::rolleyes:

Look at when they started. All were a really long time ago. The game was massively different then.

[Bcatfan08]

Poor coaching!! Like this year, maybe not shoot 30 threes and work on breaking a zone. It isn't rocket science to see where they are failing.

Then why do you keep asking?

[RobPoppeil]

Then why do you keep asking?

To watch you Mick defenders squirm. It's comical. First it's Huggins and then this guys and then that excuses. But you can not come up with anything close to an intelligent argument as to how Mick is doing a good job.

[Billy Don]

Bad news! This is his third year? You also lose a lot of the leeway when you continually choke down the stretch.

One good thing about the Mick lovers giving leeway is we don't have to read about all the final 4's and National Championships he is going to win. Now it's just how many years it will take until he can actually win ONE NCAA tourney game. I'd like to think he will win one NCAA tourney game one of these years but I don't know if he will get fired first or not. I wonder how many of this years NIT coachs are making a million bucks a year?

[Bcatfan08]

To watch you Mick defenders squirm. It's comical. First it's Huggins and then this guys and then that excuses. But you can not come up with anything close to an intelligent argument as to how Mick is doing a good job.

Its comical watching you ask dumb questions over and over again. Believe it or not, Mick isn't the one on the court. You may have to place blame on the players for not making shots.

[RobPoppeil]

Its comical watching you ask dumb questions over and over again. Believe it or not, Mick isn't the one on the court. You may have to place blame on the players for not making shots.

He is the one who brings them here and he is the one who puts them on the court. He's the one who sets up the offense to get them shots they can make. It all goes back to him.

I wish I worked for you. I'd never have to worry about anything because I could fail time and time again but you'd think it was great.

[Bcatfan08]

He is the one who brings them here and he is the one who puts them on the court. He's the one who sets up the offense to get them shots they can make. It all goes back to him.

I wish I worked for you. I'd never have to worry about anything because I could fail time and time again but you'd think it was great.

Apparently you feel that failure is only one person's problem. Blame it all on the coach and the players did nothing wrong.

[Mick's Da Man]

To watch you Mick defenders squirm. It's comical. First it's Huggins and then this guys and then that excuses. But you can not come up with anything close to an intelligent argument as to how Mick is doing a good job.

2003–2004 Murray State 28-6 14-2 2nd NCAA 1st Round
2004–2005 Murray State 17-11 11-5 T-2nd
2005–2006 Murray State 24-7 17-3 1st NCAA 1st Round
Murray State: 69-24 42-10
Cincinnati (Big East Conference) (2006–present)
2006–2007 Cincinnati 11-19 2-14 16th none
2007–2008 Cincinnati 13-19 8-10 10th CBI 1st Round
2008–2009 Cincinnati 18-13 8-10 9th

1. UC has improved every year since he got here. This season, they had no bad OOC losses like the 2 previous seasons. Won 3 of their 6 tough OOC games.
2. Last year, Mick won at Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, and won at West Virginia in crushing defeat of Huggs team by 23 points!.......with a makeshift team of JUCO's and Deonta Vaughn.
3. 2 Seasons ago, Mick's makeshift team of first year players defeated a highly rated, probably one of the better Xavier teams of all time, by 10 points at the Shoe, 67-57.
4. 2 Seasons ago, although they only won 2 Big East games (West Virginia, Seton Hall), the largest margin of defeat was 16 points to Pittsburgh.

[Lobot]

Again this has become an argument between 3 people on the same points over and over. Stop trying to hammer your opinion into everyone else's head and have a real discussion