Old Recruiting Lists From 2002-03-04 (Bob Gibbons)

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Cleaning out my den tonight. Found my collection of Bob Gibbons' recruiting reports, to wit:

2002 - UC ranked #5 class. Hicks #47, Moore #50, Kirkland #138, Bobbitt #4 JuCo, Johnson #15 JuCo.

2003 - UC ranked #11 class. Whaley #9 JuCo, Williams #39 JuCo, Pilgrim #20 Prep, Souleymane #45 Prep, and White (Fla transfer).

2004 - UC ranked #11 class. Bright #47, Muhammad #7 JuCo, Banks #3 Prep.

That's all I found. Interesting to look back at their rankings. They were the cornerstones on 25 W Bearcat teams in 2004 and 2005 plus 21 W team in 2006.

[RedDog]

Thats amazing that those classes were rated that high, at least based on how they panned out. Its a good example of how we overemphasize some supposed experts opinion or rating system. Once again I'd rather recruit character and heart than be driven by the numbers. So many of the guys you mentioned either didn't cut it, had issues, underachieved or otherwise didn't represent Bearcat basketball in the manner in which I hope Micks kids do going forward.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Those 03' and 04' classes still make me laugh out loud.

[Irishbearcat]

Cleaning out my den tonight. Found my collection of Bob Gibbons' recruiting reports, to wit:

2002 - UC ranked #5 class. Hicks #47, Moore #50, Kirkland #138, Bobbitt #4 JuCo, Johnson #15 JuCo.

2003 - UC ranked #11 class. Whaley #9 JuCo, Williams #39 JuCo, Pilgrim #20 Prep, Souleymane #45 Prep, and White (Fla transfer).

2004 - UC ranked #11 class. Bright #47, Muhammad #7 JuCo, Banks #3 Prep.

That's all I found. Interesting to look back at their rankings. They were the cornerstones on 25 W Bearcat teams in 2004 and 2005 plus 21 W team in 2006.


Wow, shows why I don't put much stock in rankings. A couple of those are laughable. Good find tho, and thanx for sharing!

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Thats amazing that those classes were rated that high, at least based on how they panned out. Its a good example of how we overemphasize some supposed experts opinion or rating system. Once again I'd rather recruit character and heart than be driven by the numbers. So many of the guys you mentioned either didn't cut it, had issues, underachieved or otherwise didn't represent Bearcat basketball in the manner in which I hope Micks kids do going forward.

Those classes were instrumental in 25 W seasons in 2004 and 2005 plus 21 W season in 2006 (with a severely undermanned team due to the coaching change).

Nothing off base with the rankings at all. Bobbitt, Whaley, and White all made the NBA. Hicks and Williams are playing pro basketball overseas.

A few - Bright, Banks, Souleymane, Pilgrim - didn't pan out.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Those 03' and 04' classes still make me laugh out loud.

Both included very talented, highly rated players. A couple didn't pan out. A couple made the NBA. Another plays pro basketball in Europe.

[jkwuc89]

To be perfectly honest, I don't really follow how former UC players do after they leave/graduate. I care most about how they do when they are on campus. With that said, the lofty rankings did not directly correlation to a high level of performance for the following recruits listed on this thread:

Whaley, Pilgrim, and Souleymane.

The others listed certainly contributed significantly.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

To be perfectly honest, I don't really follow how former UC players do after they leave/graduate. I care most about how they do when they are on campus. With that said, the lofty rankings did not directly correlation to a high level of performance for the following recruits listed on this thread:

Whaley, Pilgrim, and Souleymane.

The others listed certainly contributed significantly.

Whaley was a disappointment. Pilgrim should have been released from LOI when James White transferred to UC a month after he signed it. Souley was just the #13 man on the team. Very late signee when UC declined Alexander Johnson's proposal for tuition reimbursement (up front in $).

[Bearcat Cafe]

Both included very talented, highly rated players. A couple didn't pan out. A couple made the NBA. Another plays pro basketball in Europe.

No question there was talent. However, there was also a former criminal who turned out to be a quitter and a headcase, a couple of guys with no interest in academics, a guy who had no business playing D-1 basketball, two middle of the road JUCO shooting guards we unsuccessfully tried to turn into point guards and a not so "Bright" guy with a penchant for flashing a gatt around campus. Those 2 classes set UC basketball back years. Impossible to sugar coat it.

[jeffto]

I agree with Bearcat Cafe. To try to paint these recruiting classes as successful ignores reality. Almost half the players listed in the original post were busts. I think it paints a picture of the desperation of a coach who couldn't compete for a lot of the higher quality players because of his and the program's tarnished reputation.

Why would a coach be recruiting the bottom of the barrel (no denigration of the fine kids on the list intended) after his tenure and success? JUCOs should never have even been on the radar. Only 4 of the 13 were high school senior recruits.

Go Mick!!!! RIP Skip.

[RedDog]

Those are exactly my sentiments. Trying to evaluate our program and success based only on wins is ludicrous. Its time we move beyond that, upgrade our image nationally and win with quality people. As we transition to Mick's era I am very hopeful that we can accomplish this.

[jkwuc89]

Let me put out this potential fire before it starts. If you want to have yet another discussion about how Coach Huggins recruited or how he ran the UC program, go to the General forum. I will be removing any posts along this subject line that appear on this thread.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Names aside, these recruits helped UC get 25 W in 2004 and 2005, then 21 W despite being severely undermanned in 2006.

I think those are reasonably successful results, given the circumstances.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Was not my intention to criticize the coaches for who they brought in. Not pointing the finger at anyone. Just pointing out the fact that in retrospect, those two classes were a complete bust that left the cupboard barren in 05' and 06'.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Was not my intention to criticize the coaches for who they brought in. Not pointing the finger at anyone. Just pointing out the fact that in retrospect, those two classes were a complete bust that left the cupboard barren in 05' and 06'.

Actually the cupboard was not bare in 2005 (25 W) or 2006 (21 W under tough circumstances). The loss of the 2005 and 2006 recruiting classes left the cupboard bare in 2007 (just 11 W).

[levydl]

Actually the cupboard was not bare in 2005 (25 W) or 2006 (21 W under tough circumstances). The loss of the 2005 and 2006 recruiting classes left the cupboard bare in 2007 (just 11 W).

Well, how did the '03 and '04 classes help in '06-'07? Yeah, the '05 class leaving or not making it hurt, and having to scramble for the '06 class definitely hurt, but you'd think a few '03 recruits would be SRs then, and a few '04 recruits would be JRs, if those classes were so good. But not one of the '03 or '04 recruits was around for a third season.

The fact is, those classes produced two players (and you can really throw Souley in here too) that never played (Banks and Pilgrim), two 1 year players (Whaley, who didn't even make it the whole year, and Bright), two 2 year players (Jihad and Nick Williams), a single 3 year player (and James White was actually only 2 1/2) and zero 4 year players, despite not one player leaving early for the NBA. The classes had talent, but it just didn't work out. Granted, the 5-8 rule was still in effect then, but still, the relative failure of those classes to produce players was a significant contributing factor to the tough '06-'07 season. You can't just blame it on the '05 and '06 classes. Players are allowed 4 years of eligibility for a reason.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Couldn't agree more, L. I think 1958 missed the point by a bit. Those 2 classes falling apart was the reason AK was forced to give minutes to a football player, an NAIA refugee, and a walk on from Indian Hill in 2005.

[Jose_Jalapeno_on_a_Stick]

I'll always fondly remember the 2002 class. It was just one healthy Chadd Moore away from being something special IMO. After that, Williams and White were the only two players I was reasonably happy with.

And I completely agree that it really doesn't matter how well Whaley's doing in the NBA. The fact that he did nothing here is the key point.

[Cats4Ever]

Couldn't agree more, L. I think 1958 missed the point by a bit. Those 2 classes falling apart was the reason AK was forced to give minutes to a football player, an NAIA refugee, and a walk on from Indian Hill in 2005.

interesting point - and Andy took them to the NCAA doorstep with that group.

Good coaching job or not?

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Well, how did the '03 and '04 classes help in '06-'07? Yeah, the '05 class leaving or not making it hurt, and having to scramble for the '06 class definitely hurt, but you'd think a few '03 recruits would be SRs then, and a few '04 recruits would be JRs, if those classes were so good. But not one of the '03 or '04 recruits was around for a third season.

The fact is, those classes produced two players (and you can really throw Souley in here too) that never played (Banks and Pilgrim), two 1 year players (Whaley, who didn't even make it the whole year, and Bright), two 2 year players (Jihad and Nick Williams), a single 3 year player (and James White was actually only 2 1/2) and zero 4 year players, despite not one player leaving early for the NBA. The classes had talent, but it just didn't work out. Granted, the 5-8 rule was still in effect then, but still, the relative failure of those classes to produce players was a significant contributing factor to the tough '06-'07 season. You can't just blame it on the '05 and '06 classes. Players are allowed 4 years of eligibility for a reason.

Let's try this again.

The 2002-03-04 recruits helped UC to 25 W seasons in 2004 and 2005, and 21 W season (under difficult circumstances) in 2006.

That's as clear as I can say it.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Couldn't agree more, L. I think 1958 missed the point by a bit. Those 2 classes falling apart was the reason AK was forced to give minutes to a football player, an NAIA refugee, and a walk on from Indian Hill in 2005.

Actually I'm right on the mark. The 2002 was the cornerstone of the 2006 team.

Of course, a check of the facts would show only 10-15 minutes per game (COMBINED) going to those 3 players.

Never let facts cloud your bias.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I'll always fondly remember the 2002 class. It was just one healthy Chadd Moore away from being something special IMO. After that, Williams and White were the only two players I was reasonably happy with.

And I completely agree that it really doesn't matter how well Whaley's doing in the NBA. The fact that he did nothing here is the key point.

http://gobearcats.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2005-2006/teamcume.html

White and Muhammad played key roles in the 2006 season.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Excellent coaching job. However, he also was in charge of recruiting both of those failed classes.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Excellent coaching job. However, he also was in charge of recruiting both of those failed classes.

Kennedy recruited no one in 2006. The 2005 class was hardly a failure. The players left because the coaches who recruited them were gone from UC.

[Bearcat Cafe]

OK, 1958. You win. I guess we can only hope the 2008 class goes as well as those two classes fared. ;)

[Bearcat Cafe]

PS: 1958, do you even read these posts? This conversation is about 03 and 04.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

PS: 1958, do you even read these posts? This conversation is about 03 and 04.

Yep - White, Williams, and Whaley were key parts of the 2004 team (25 W).

White, Williams, Muhammad, and Bright were key parts of 2005 (25 W).

Then White and Muhammad starters in 2006 (21 W under tough circumstances).

[jkwuc89]

To call Whaley a key part of a successful team is a rather large stretch. In the minds of many UC fans, myself included, he will go down as of the most over-hyped, underachieving recruits in Bearcat history.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Stand by for a post explaining to you how great Whaley was because that 03'-04 team started 13-0 and ended up winning 25 games. ;)

[waterhead]

Cleaning out my den tonight. Found my collection of Bob Gibbons' recruiting reports, to wit:

2002 - UC ranked #5 class. Hicks #47, Moore #50, Kirkland #138, Bobbitt #4 JuCo, Johnson #15 JuCo.

2003 - UC ranked #11 class. Whaley #9 JuCo, Williams #39 JuCo, Pilgrim #20 Prep, Souleymane #45 Prep, and White (Fla transfer).

2004 - UC ranked #11 class. Bright #47, Muhammad #7 JuCo, Banks #3 Prep.

That's all I found. Interesting to look back at their rankings. They were the cornerstones on 25 W Bearcat teams in 2004 and 2005 plus 21 W team in 2006.

I agree with most on this board. If you take a look at just the high school kids from these years that contributed significantly you get down to a pretty short list of Hicks, Kirkland, and Moore. Hicks was the only over achiever in the entire bunch. Moore was injured his whole career and Kirkland seemed too lazy to live up to his full potential. Some of the high school dissapointment has to do with chance and much of it could have been avoided with proper recruiting.

I'm not saying that jucos should be disregarded because they were a signature of many, if not most, of our successful teams under Huggins. The truth is we would all like to see that level of success with high school recruits instead of jucos. Smart and clean high school kids. I don't have a problem with jucos as long as it doesn't account for half of your recruits each year. I think 1 or 2 jucos on the entire team is enough to fill the weak spots.

Bottom line...it looks like we could have done a SIGNIFICANTLY better job with high school recruits over this period. I hope Mick can turn that around but it won't be easy. It looks like he has a good start. This in no way is to demean the contributions that Huggins made to UC as they are priceless and I, for one, appreciate it greatly.

[jeffto]

White and Muhammad played key roles in the 2006 season.

Something about getting busted for grades right before the NIT rings a bell. Good players, lousy character.

There will always be some bad eggs, but maybe Mick can reverse the past so that the bad eggs are rare rather than frequent.

[schottjy]

Something about getting busted for grades right before the NIT rings a bell.

Something about their head coach and assistant coach getting shafted by the university rings a bell. But I digress, not making excuses for the two of them but it really was a comedy of errors season. Hopefully the ship will sail a bit smoother under Mick's tenure.

[elliotlaudermilk]

all the talk about past recruits had me searching the internet where I stumbled upon this gem.....definitely check out this link and enjoy the memories it brings back (and what could have been).

http://ad.go.com/ncb/preview2000/2132.html