Hope and pray

[Indy500]

We need help next year and it` s not looking very good. and the class of 2010 is not shaping up very well. I`m not sure where we go from here, but if Mick doesn`t produce this season he is done.

[catscratchfever]

We need help next year and it` s not looking very good. and the class of 2010 is not shaping up very well. I`m not sure where we go from here, but if Mick doesn`t produce this season he is done.
I usually don't waste time on doom and gloomers, as they usually have an agenda with their comments, but humor me. What was the Bearcats biggest need this year? A point guard? You do realize that they have a 4 star PG in Cashmere Wright coming in right? Having a stud point guard means that we also have a stud 2 guard now (Vaughn). Throw in Kilpatrick and Thomas, and I really don't see all of the fuss. Yes, we need a backup PG. We all know that. As of now, we do not have one. Does that mean that next year is not looking good?
Please explain what you are seeing that I don't.

[Thegreatone]

We need help next year and it` s not looking very good. and the class of 2010 is not shaping up very well. I`m not sure where we go from here, but if Mick doesn`t produce this season he is done.

I am not a blind optimist but I always support Mick because he is the UC coach. I believe in Mick Cronin.

We will have addressed our biggest need PG with 2 new PG's. Cash and one more.

Add Thomas and Kilpatrick

AND another year of experience for guys like biggie, rashad, larry, dion and Yancy and we are 3 games better if not more.


I wanted Riek and Mick and UC's staff deserve blame for droppin the ball but just because we all wanted Riek doesnt mean it was the best thing for us.

[Lobot]

I am not a blind optimist but I always support Mick because he is the UC coach. I believe in Mick Cronin.

We will have addressed our biggest need PG with 2 new PG's. Cash and one more.

Add Thomas and Kilpatrick

AND another year of experience for guys like biggie, rashad, larry, dion and Yancy and we are 3 games better if not more.


I wanted Riek and Mick and UC's staff deserve blame for droppin the ball but just because we all wanted Riek doesnt mean it was the best thing for us.

I have to disagree with this. The staff didn't drop the ball on Riek, they just wasted a lot of time on him. Slight difference.

[Bcatfan08]

I really wish we could put all these negative threads together. Its pretty much the exact same first post with a different person posting them. We get it. Mick disappointed some people by letting Riek go. Worse things have happened. At least we didn't lose our head coach and all of our players. Now that would be devastating and set us back at least five years while putting the next coach in an awful situation.

[DMoney_70]

The problem is that everyone currently up in arms over Riek would be just as mad come January when Riek still isn't cleared. Folks get enamored with the "idea" of a guy. He has yet to play college ball. Todd Cunningham said he might never, yet we are all upset that we almost had a great center. His legend precedes him without having played a game in, what, a year?

Believe me folks. If he could help the Cats and Mick had the LOI, then he would be on the team right now. Mick turning away from him shouldn't make us mad, it should makes us realize he was never going to materialize and be glad he isn't holding a scholarship hostage for yet another year.

[MicksTheGuy]

The thing with Riek is that we had come to terms that he was not going to be able to play for us. Next thing you know he is going to play for us and now he is not. If he would have just left it all alone then and been quite about surprises we would have been okay. Mick needs to shut his mouth and I love the guy and more than anyone else I am pulling for the guy. However, everytime he says something like we have big surprises in recruiting coming and we should be in the tournament it back fires on the guy.

I was really excited about Riek and now I am just so disappointed words cannot describe it. Nothing is going right for this team these days and it all starts at the head coach. I hate to agree but Mick has to get them to the tournament this year or he is going to be on a very hot seat! No more excuses.

[London 'Cat]

The thing with Riek is that we had come to terms that he was not going to be able to play for us. Next thing you know he is going to play for us and now he is not. If he would have just left it all alone then and been quite about surprises we would have been okay. Mick needs to shut his mouth and I love the guy and more than anyone else I am pulling for the guy. However, everytime he says something like we have big surprises in recruiting coming and we should be in the tournament it back fires on the guy.

I was really excited about Riek and now I am just so disappointed words cannot describe it. Nothing is going right for this team these days and it all starts at the head coach. I hate to agree but Mick has to get them to the tournament this year or he is going to be on a very hot seat! No more excuses.

At the time Cronin promised the big surprise, he probably believed, in good faith, that Riek was coming to UC. In fact, Riek signed a LOI to play at UC, confirming Cronin's belief. Subsequently, Cronin and his staff determined that Riek was not the answer, for reasons we have yet to hear, at least directly from Cronin and/or UC. Whether the NCAA changed its position, or UC learned something about Riek that impacted its assessment of his ability to play or become academically eligible, or there are other factors that we, as people not involved in the recruiting/eligibility arena, are unaware of - we will learn in due time.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I don't see where all the doom and gloom comes from. There is alot to be excited about. Some simply choose to not see it. This team will be better and be in NCAA tournament next season. If it isn't I'll call for Mick to resign. I won't have to do that.

[bearcatbret]

I usually don't waste time on doom and gloomers, as they usually have an agenda with their comments, but humor me. What was the Bearcats biggest need this year? A point guard? You do realize that they have a 4 star PG in Cashmere Wright coming in right? Having a stud point guard means that we also have a stud 2 guard now (Vaughn). Throw in Kilpatrick and Thomas, and I really don't see all of the fuss. Yes, we need a backup PG. We all know that. As of now, we do not have one. Does that mean that next year is not looking good?
Please explain what you are seeing that I don't.

Thank you. Non of us really know what is going on in the recruiting front. However, there are so many saying nothing is being done this year or for next year. Just because you are not in Mick's inner circle does not mean nothing is being done. At the end of this season, UC only had one available scholarship but everyone here wanted a new PG, PF, and C. I think this team will still be in the top half of the BEast and make the NCAA. I have said it before that I believe that Kilpatrick will surprise most of us and by adding Cash in the mix, Vaughn and Gates become much better. I am really tired of reading all of the recruiting negativity.

[BearcatRob33]

Thats what happens when people focus too much on one player when he isn't signed yet. When it doesn't happen, they forget about what we already have.

[coach]

this team needs two pg's period. vaughn is not one of them. no player is immune from getting injured for a second time and the fan base is dwindling down as the seasons pass. you cannot afford to go into next year with on pg who did not play last year as your only plan. if the staff doesn't understand this and can't get it done, it may be time to move on.

[Scheids21]

I think all the concern is because we all had our hopes up as to what we might get this spring and that has not come true.

[Forsure21]

Mick needs support but I am also very concerned with the 2010 class. Mick missed a big target in the local kid from Princeton who could have come in and helped make an impact for the departing Vaughn. I don't really follow the recruiting on a daily basis but from a media stand point it doesn't seem we are IN on a lot of players.

[bearcatbret]

I don't really follow the recruiting on a daily basis but from a media stand point it doesn't seem we are IN on a lot of players.

What media? The Enquirer? They will not print anything until someone else writes it for them.:D

[Pie Hole]

I usually don't waste time on doom and gloomers, as they usually have an agenda with their comments, but humor me. What was the Bearcats biggest need this year? A point guard? You do realize that they have a 4 star PG in Cashmere Wright coming in right? Having a stud point guard means that we also have a stud 2 guard now (Vaughn). Throw in Kilpatrick and Thomas, and I really don't see all of the fuss. Yes, we need a backup PG. We all know that. As of now, we do not have one. Does that mean that next year is not looking good?
Please explain what you are seeing that I don't.

Do you realize that your optimistic view is based on 2 players that have never played college basketball and 1 PF transfer that is not a prototypical post player?? Please explain what you are seeing that I don't.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Do you realize that your optimistic view is based on 2 players that have never played college basketball and 1 PF transfer that is not a prototypical post player?? Please explain what you are seeing that I don't.My optimism is based on the core of the team coming back and having another year of maturity. The team won 18 games and 8 in the BEast last season. They have a true pg (more than they had a year ago), and Vaughn will return where he is at his best, except for maybe a minute here and there. They have added quality depth in Kilpatrick and Thomas and Gates should be far better next season. why wouldn't you be optimistic when an 18 win team returns almost the whole roster?

[bearcatbret]

If Cash lives up to just half of my expectations, he will make the entire team better. I think that we will have a zone buster this year and have added (potentially) 2 slashers that can play defense. I think we should be able to press much more efficiently.

[catscratchfever]

Do you realize that your optimistic view is based on 2 players that have never played college basketball and 1 PF transfer that is not a prototypical post player?? Please explain what you are seeing that I don't.

If Mick would have signed Bledsoe, Wall, Stephenson, Xavier Henry, etc...they would have never played college basketball either. What does that have to do with anything? The orginal poster was talking about how bad things look for next season, and I responded by saying that many of last year's holes will be filled by guys already committed and/or on the roster for next season.

Like I said, I typically do not respond to doom and gloomers, as their biggest nightmare in many cases is a successful basketball team under Mick Cronin.
I really find it amazing, the microcosm of UC "fans" that enjoy so much the constant belittling (sp) and criticism of anything UC related. Anytime you go to a message board for other teams, their fans are delusionally optimistic. For example, during the stretch run last year, there were bubble teams, whose fans were talking not only about why their team should get a bid, but about the possibility of their team putting together a miraculous final 4 run. Meanwhile, our "fans" are talking about how we didn't even belong, and talking about what a joke our record was.
In the offseason, you have the fans of IU, and other teams who are terrible, expressing their optimism for why their team is poised to be so much better. At the same time, UC "fans" are talking about how bad their team is going to suck.
Like I said, I really do believe that most of these folks deep down are still UC fans, but they have allowed themselves to become pessimists. It really does become a habit, and you almost find yourself secretly hoping that the bad will get worse, so your feelings are somehow justified. The passion that you once had for loving the program has to be channeled somewhere, and it is convenient to gear that passion directly to hating Mick Cronin and any semblance of his success. It is kind of the extension of the Bengals fan who, after an 0-8 start is deep-down, hoping that the team will go 0-16, just to prove his point.
It's definitely an interesting phenomenon.

[JasonS]

If Mick would have signed Bledsoe, Wall, Stephenson, Xavier Henry, etc...they would have never played college basketball either. What does that have to do with anything? The orginal poster was talking about how bad things look for next season, and I responded by saying that many of last year's holes will be filled by guys already committed and/or on the roster for next season.

Like I said, I typically do not respond to doom and gloomers, as their biggest nightmare in many cases is a successful basketball team under Mick Cronin.
I really find it amazing, the microcosm of UC "fans" that enjoy so much the constant belittling (sp) and criticism of anything UC related. Anytime you go to a message board for other teams, their fans are delusionally optimistic. For example, during the stretch run last year, there were bubble teams, whose fans were talking not only about why their team should get a bid, but about the possibility of their team putting together a miraculous final 4 run. Meanwhile, our "fans" are talking about how we didn't even belong, and talking about what a joke our record was.
In the offseason, you have the fans of IU, and other teams who are terrible, expressing their optimism for why their team is poised to be so much better. At the same time, UC "fans" are talking about how bad their team is going to suck.
Like I said, I really do believe that most of these folks deep down are still UC fans, but they have allowed themselves to become pessimists. It really does become a habit, and you almost find yourself secretly hoping that the bad will get worse, so your feelings are somehow justified. The passion that you once had for loving the program has to be channeled somewhere, and it is convenient to gear that passion directly to hating Mick Cronin and any semblance of his success. It is kind of the extension of the Bengals fan who, after an 0-8 start is deep-down, hoping that the team will go 0-16, just to prove his point.
It's definitely an interesting phenomenon.

Well said. And to your point, it is not just Bearcat fans. It is Bengals and Reds fans too (of course some of these people are the same). I've said it before and I'll say it again, fans in the city of Cincinnati are the most cynical, pessimistic, and happy being miserable of any I have ever seen. Fans in Cincinnati will always find something to complain about even if the Reds won the World Series, Bengals won the Super Bowl, and UC won the National Title in Basketball in the same year.

[bearcated]

Fans in Cincinnati will always find something to complain about even if the Reds won the World Series, Bengals won the Super Bowl, and UC won the National Title in Basketball in the same year.
And that's happened when, exactly? The Reds haven't won a championship since '90, the Bengals were last in the Super Bowl in '89, and UC last made it to the Final 4 in '92. That's all decades ago. Cincinnati teams have won a grand total of one championship (the Reds) in over 30 plus years. How many years of bad and losing teams have people had to tolerate in this town? Remember the Ed Badger and Tony Yates glory days? Weren't they great? Other than Huggs and Brian Kelly at UC, and hoops at X, Cincinnati sports teams have been charging top dollar and serving up turds for years. You really think people would just let this slide by in towns like NYC or Philly? Seriously?

[JasonS]

And that's happened when, exactly? The Reds haven't won a championship since '90, the Bengals were last in the Super Bowl in '89, and UC last made it to the Final 4 in '92. That's all decades ago. Cincinnati teams have won a grand total of one championship (the Reds) in over 30 plus years. How many years of bad and losing teams have people had to tolerate in this town? Remember the Ed Badger and Tony Yates glory days? Weren't they great? Other than Huggs and Brian Kelly at UC, and hoops at X, Cincinnati sports teams have been charging top dollar and serving up turds for years. You really think people would just let this slide by in towns like NYC or Philly? Seriously?

Charging top dollar? Do you really think the Reds, Bearcats, or even the Bengals are charging "top dollar?" I suggest you go to a ball game in New York or Boston and then tell me these teams charge top dollar. While UC Football has raised prices, they are still considerably less expensive than 100 miles north in Columbus. People in Cincy like to complain. I stand by that comment.

[bearcatbilly6225]

Thank you. Non of us really know what is going on in the recruiting front. However, there are so many saying nothing is being done this year or for next year. Just because you are not in Mick's inner circle does not mean nothing is being done. At the end of this season, UC only had one available scholarship but everyone here wanted a new PG, PF, and C. I think this team will still be in the top half of the BEast and make the NCAA. I have said it before that I believe that Kilpatrick will surprise most of us and by adding Cash in the mix, Vaughn and Gates become much better. I am really tired of reading all of the recruiting negativity.

Why it is a valid point that MC is not getting the job done. This is the Big East you can not take one year off with recruiting... You have to bring in top talent year in and year out to get to the top PERIOD!!!

[Bearcat Jeff]

And that's happened when, exactly? The Reds haven't won a championship since '90, the Bengals were last in the Super Bowl in '89, and UC last made it to the Final 4 in '92. That's all decades ago. Cincinnati teams have won a grand total of one championship (the Reds) in over 30 plus years. How many years of bad and losing teams have people had to tolerate in this town? Remember the Ed Badger and Tony Yates glory days? Weren't they great? Other than Huggs and Brian Kelly at UC, and hoops at X, Cincinnati sports teams have been charging top dollar and serving up turds for years. You really think people would just let this slide by in towns like NYC or Philly? Seriously?We will see what kind of coach Kelly is this season now that Dantonio's defensive players are gone. People like to compare Kelly and Cronin. Cronin came in to a bare cupboard and Kelly a full one.

[insomniaisevil]

Cincinnati teams have won a grand total of one championship (the Reds) in over 30 plus years.

2 championships...2008 Kelly Cup Champion Cincinnati Cyclones. Best value in town...and they continue to win. :D

[bearcatbret]

We will see what kind of coach Kelly is this season now that Dantonio's defensive players are gone. People like to compare Kelly and Cronin. Cronin came in to a bare cupboard and Kelly a full one.

But Kelly did develop them. I agree though, the national ratings of our D (rushing allowed per game, passing yards per game, etc) this past year did not match the previous year. However, we still won the BEast. Do you really think Dontonio's offense could have won? BK switched the D scheme from a man to a zone also. This year he is switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Let's wait and see.

[levydl]

Why it is a valid point that MC is not getting the job done. This is the Big East you can not take one year off with recruiting... You have to bring in top talent year in and year out to get to the top PERIOD!!!

You don't get the irony in that statement? UC didn't take just 1, we took 2 years off with recruiting before Cronin got here.

We have a transfer who started in the Big 12 coming in and a prep school guard, as well as getting Cash Wright into the lineup. How about you see how these guys actually play before you say they aren't top talent. We had one of the top 5 freshman in the Big East last year and one of the top 15 players as voted on by the coaches.

[DMoney_70]

2 championships...2008 Kelly Cup Champion Cincinnati Cyclones. Best value in town...and they continue to win. :D

Sorry. Minor league hockey? Seriously? There's about 1000 people in the whole area that care.

[catscratchfever]

Sorry. Minor league hockey? Seriously? There's about 1000 people in the whole area that care.

I don't think there are even that many...

[catscratchfever]

You don't get the irony in that statement? UC didn't take just 1, we took 2 years off with recruiting before Cronin got here.

We have a transfer who started in the Big 12 coming in and a prep school guard, as well as getting Cash Wright into the lineup. How about you see how these guys actually play before you say they aren't top talent. We had one of the top 5 freshman in the Big East last year and one of the top 15 players as voted on by the coaches.
This makes too much sense...prepare to get blasted and called foolish and blind.

[insomniaisevil]

Sorry. Minor league hockey? Seriously? There's about 1000 people in the whole area that care.

I seem to recall over 13,000 at the final game of the championship last year. About 11,000 for the final home game this season. Sadly, this is more than UC hoops has been drawing.

That said, I was making my point somewhat tongue in cheek...but why not support a team that does win?

Before anyone piles on here, I realize this isn't a Cyclones forum. I get that. I'm just a fan and it always frustrates me that people don't at least acknowledge that it happened. We'll continue going down to support the "professional" football team that doesn't win or care about the fans...but not the Cyclones.

To relate this to UC...think about the general lack of media coverage in UC football until recently...regardless of multiple bowl trips. Major bowls? No...but there were winning. Yet there was more media coverage of O$U than the local team.

[bearcatbret]

Championships in the last 30 years?
- How about UC's Great Midwest League championships?
- How about UC's CUSA championships?
- How about X's conference championships?
- How about Miami football MAC championships?
- How about Miami Hockey Regional Championship?
- UC other sports championships in the BEast including football.

There has been plenty of good sports stories over the past 30 years. I believe Cincinnati is what have you done for me lately and typically one looks only at his favorite team/sport. Yes, the Cyclones get a good draw and have been a good team and should not be put down because they are minor league. I would rather go to a Cyclones game than a Reds game.

[insomniaisevil]

Championships in the last 30 years?
- How about UC's Great Midwest League championships?
- How about UC's CUSA championships?
- How about X's conference championships?
- How about Miami football MAC championships?
- How about Miami Hockey Regional Championship?
- UC other sports championships in the BEast including football.

There has been plenty of good sports stories over the past 30 years. I believe Cincinnati is what have you done for me lately and typically one looks only at his favorite team/sport. Yes, the Cyclones get a good draw and have been a good team and should not be put down because they are minor league. I would rather go to a Cyclones game than a Reds game.

I sort of forgot about how good Miami hockey was this year. It's a shame they couldn't hold on and win, seriously.

Cincinnati is too much of a "professional" sports town that blindly follows those teams. I mean, I'm a diehard Reds fan and I'm glad that they seem to at least be TRYING to win now, but...the Bengals? Really? Why do people continue going...or caring? I don't understand.

The Cyclones are an underrated experience. I'm looking forward to game 3 of the semi-finals next Wednesday.

All that said...come on, let's at least leave X out of the conversation here. ;)

[Bearcat John 69]

Charging top dollar? Do you really think the Reds, Bearcats, or even the Bengals are charging "top dollar?" I suggest you go to a ball game in New York or Boston and then tell me these teams charge top dollar. While UC Football has raised prices, they are still considerably less expensive than 100 miles north in Columbus. People in Cincy like to complain. I stand by that comment.

excellent point jason. too often the locals have a myopic viewpoint.

and to your earlier point.....sadly, i'll admit the overwhelming pessimisim is starting to wear me down.

[bearcated]

Charging top dollar? Do you really think the Reds, Bearcats, or even the Bengals are charging "top dollar?" I suggest you go to a ball game in New York or Boston and then tell me these teams charge top dollar. While UC Football has raised prices, they are still considerably less expensive than 100 miles north in Columbus. People in Cincy like to complain. I stand by that comment.
You're entitled to your opinion. I have been to these places, and attended games. Have you? I know how much tickets are in NYC.

I'm not complaining about UC football. My comments are more directed at the pro teams. After having Bengals season tickets for 27 years I dumped them, but I kept my UC tickets. One winning season in 17 years and people aren't entitled to b***?

You think NYC fans are so patient, go tell that to Eric Mangini.

[Joe_Pong]

If Mick would have signed Bledsoe, Wall, Stephenson, Xavier Henry, etc...they would have never played college basketball either. What does that have to do with anything? The orginal poster was talking about how bad things look for next season, and I responded by saying that many of last year's holes will be filled by guys already committed and/or on the roster for next season.

Like I said, I typically do not respond to doom and gloomers, as their biggest nightmare in many cases is a successful basketball team under Mick Cronin.
I really find it amazing, the microcosm of UC "fans" that enjoy so much the constant belittling (sp) and criticism of anything UC related. Anytime you go to a message board for other teams, their fans are delusionally optimistic. For example, during the stretch run last year, there were bubble teams, whose fans were talking not only about why their team should get a bid, but about the possibility of their team putting together a miraculous final 4 run. Meanwhile, our "fans" are talking about how we didn't even belong, and talking about what a joke our record was.
In the offseason, you have the fans of IU, and other teams who are terrible, expressing their optimism for why their team is poised to be so much better. At the same time, UC "fans" are talking about how bad their team is going to suck.
Like I said, I really do believe that most of these folks deep down are still UC fans, but they have allowed themselves to become pessimists. It really does become a habit, and you almost find yourself secretly hoping that the bad will get worse, so your feelings are somehow justified. The passion that you once had for loving the program has to be channeled somewhere, and it is convenient to gear that passion directly to hating Mick Cronin and any semblance of his success. It is kind of the extension of the Bengals fan who, after an 0-8 start is deep-down, hoping that the team will go 0-16, just to prove his point.
It's definitely an interesting phenomenon.

I think you got it all wrong. I'm sure you would include me in this group of people you are referring to. I am not being negative. I am just fighting against this huge lowereing of expectations that has occurred, especially when it comes to recruiting. We are now excited about getting a recruit who is barely in the top 100 (although ranking don't mean that much to me). In the past, when we were good, we would just shrug at getting a guy like that, and say well, maybe he can give us some good minutes off the bench. We are now just as excited about getting a top 100-150 player as we used to be about getting a top 30 player. So you guys build these guys up as if they are great players, then you don't understand why a team with this roster can't even make it to the NIT.

Prior to last season, and even during the first part of the season, the majority of people on the board were talking about how we are loaded (especially offensively) and we were two deep at every position, and we have so many offensive weapons. My comment was, sure, we have two warm bodies at every position, but almost all of them are bench caliber players for a team that wants to compete in the Big East.I was criticized for saying we only have a couple guys who should be starters.

Look at all the people who are counting on Cashmere Wright to be some sort of savior for us next season. They act like he was a McDonald's All-American or something. The same people who despised Kenny Satterfield and couldn't wait for him to leave, are now claiming that Wright, who likely will be nowhere even close to as good as Satterfield was, is going to be the answer for us.

Seems like our standards have been lowered quite a bit.

[bearcatbret]

I think it is interesting that you have to go back to Satterfield as an example of one of our good guards.

[bearcatbret]

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/school?schoolId=2132&page=briefingroom&season=2009&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fschool%3fschoolId%3d2132 %26page%3dbriefingroom%26season%3d2009

You have to go halfway down the page to get to Sean. Yes, I know it is a bit dated. However, I found it interesting how the author says how Sean is going to really excel with Gates and Cash and they both will benefit from him being able to hit the jumper. What the interesting part was that the author never mentions Vaughn.

[hangarninetysix]

I think the situation with Cash's injury has made some so over concerned about the PG position that they forget we really have no C. We have Biggie and Toyloy. Toyloy competes hard, but isn't talented enough. Biggie.. enough said. I hope he makes a big leap this year and I'm rooting for him but I'm afraid he won't.

We at least have one good to decent (or expected to be good) player at every position other than C. We have Cash at PG, DV at SG, Kilpatrick at SF, Gates at PF. I think the lack of a BE C could cause major problems for us again this year, especially defensively. I hope I'm wrong.

[Carin's Dad]

What the interesting part was that the author never mentions Vaughn.Is that because he and Kilpatrick probably won't spend a lot of time on the court together? They're both 2's aren't they? Although I think I could see Sean playing at the 3 quite a bit.

[bearcatbret]

Yes Kilpatrick is a SG but I have heard it mentioned that he may play a little bit at SF just to have him in the game.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I think you got it all wrong. I'm sure you would include me in this group of people you are referring to. I am not being negative. I am just fighting against this huge lowereing of expectations that has occurred, especially when it comes to recruiting. We are now excited about getting a recruit who is barely in the top 100 (although ranking don't mean that much to me). In the past, when we were good, we would just shrug at getting a guy like that, and say well, maybe he can give us some good minutes off the bench. We are now just as excited about getting a top 100-150 player as we used to be about getting a top 30 player. So you guys build these guys up as if they are great players, then you don't understand why a team with this roster can't even make it to the NIT.

Prior to last season, and even during the first part of the season, the majority of people on the board were talking about how we are loaded (especially offensively) and we were two deep at every position, and we have so many offensive weapons. My comment was, sure, we have two warm bodies at every position, but almost all of them are bench caliber players for a team that wants to compete in the Big East.I was criticized for saying we only have a couple guys who should be starters.

Look at all the people who are counting on Cashmere Wright to be some sort of savior for us next season. They act like he was a McDonald's All-American or something. The same people who despised Kenny Satterfield and couldn't wait for him to leave, are now claiming that Wright, who likely will be nowhere even close to as good as Satterfield was, is going to be the answer for us.

Seems like our standards have been lowered quite a bit.
I respectfully disagree. At least from my point of view. I still have the same standards I always have had. I want a winner and a consistent NCAA threat for a team. Where I differ from you and some others on here is what some call excuses I call reality. There are some on here that will not recognize what the whole Huggins debacle has done to this program. It set this program back 2-3 years recruiting at least. People like to make comparisons to Indiana and that isn't even close. When this first took place all the pundits said it would take Cincinnati at least 5 years to recover. There are also some on here that think way to highly of Cincinnati as a brand name. It is not now, nor was it during the Huggins years, a top 10 brand name. Brand names sell. Whether it is jeans or basketball programs. I expect Mick to win. I think that he won 18 games last season and has been competitive in the BEast the past two seasons is not great but admirable. I look at the Gates, Wright, Toyloy class as his first true class of recruits. The class prior of Mitchell and company was meant to get 4 year players in here. Recruiting is about relationships and it takes time to build those. I was looking at '10 and '11 and I do see Mick is in with some top guys. Rivals has 3 mentioned from the Spiece Tournament alone (Jordan Manuel, Mike Shaw, Jeremiah Davis). I do not think it is an excuse that under the circumstances he inherited and the harm it did to the reputation of Cincinnati Basketball, that he be given time to turn it back around. If he does not win and go to the NCAA next season I have said he should not be coach at U.C.. However, I have also stated that the next coach will be better off for Mick having been here. Mick has borne the brunt of the Huggs backlash, and brought players in to build off of. To me that is being realistic and fair about a complicated situation, not a rah rah guy. There is a huge difference.

[catscratchfever]

I think you got it all wrong. I'm sure you would include me in this group of people you are referring to. I am not being negative. I am just fighting against this huge lowereing of expectations that has occurred, especially when it comes to recruiting. We are now excited about getting a recruit who is barely in the top 100 (although ranking don't mean that much to me). In the past, when we were good, we would just shrug at getting a guy like that, and say well, maybe he can give us some good minutes off the bench. We are now just as excited about getting a top 100-150 player as we used to be about getting a top 30 player. So you guys build these guys up as if they are great players, then you don't understand why a team with this roster can't even make it to the NIT.

Prior to last season, and even during the first part of the season, the majority of people on the board were talking about how we are loaded (especially offensively) and we were two deep at every position, and we have so many offensive weapons. My comment was, sure, we have two warm bodies at every position, but almost all of them are bench caliber players for a team that wants to compete in the Big East.I was criticized for saying we only have a couple guys who should be starters.

Look at all the people who are counting on Cashmere Wright to be some sort of savior for us next season. They act like he was a McDonald's All-American or something. The same people who despised Kenny Satterfield and couldn't wait for him to leave, are now claiming that Wright, who likely will be nowhere even close to as good as Satterfield was, is going to be the answer for us.

Seems like our standards have been lowered quite a bit.
somehow i figured that you would disagree joe_pong

[bearcatbret]

Bearcat Jeff you are right on. I would say that we may have even loss 4 years of recruiting but at least 3 plus Mick's first class was just to get warm bodies on the floor.

[Carin's Dad]

I meant this to be a new thread.