ESPN Sportsnation Poll

[catscratchfever]

Which is the better job..Cincinnati or Xavier (OH)
go vote!!

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/

scroll down to the bottom of the page...


Please don't turn this into another Mick Cronin bashing thread guys....

[shaunsimpson]

Xavier killing Cincinnati in this poll.

I question the validity of polls and think that this is because of recent success, but interesting and may be a wake up call to a lot who think that Cincinnati can get top level coaches if they let Mick go (I am not sure where I stand on that).

[Cat's Meow]

They got the colors wrong for the states...Its only logical to show Xavier states in blue and Cincy states in red isn't it? LOL

[Carin's Dad]

Let's see, UC is still in a rebuilding mode and Xavier has had a few years of success. I think I'd vote for X being the better coaching job. But, in the end, it doesn't mean squat.

[jplog]

Ridiculous poll. The pay can obviously top out more at UC and being in the BEast makes recruiting easier. More TV, more national recognition. UC is definately the better job. Are players like Gates and Behanan lining up to go to XU?

[westsidecat]

The only thing this poll proves is that people in Idaho and Vermont are smart. :cool:


I think a few things play into this....One being, how good X has been the last few years, and second how a lot of people really don't like UC basketball, for whatever reasons they have.

I think a good example of this, is the Marq student section this year. Their chant of " you won't graduate" is a perfect example of this. Didn't make sense at all, but they still hate UC with a passion that they used something that might of made sense 10 years ago now.

Anyone with half a brain would know that UC would be the better job.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I keep telling people on here that the U.C. brand name is way down and this is a good example. Perception is people's reality. Sadly, for the past 6-7 years the perception of the Marquette student section is the perception of Cincinnati basketball nationally.

It is another obstacle that Mick is having to overcome to recruit here. The Gate's, Wright's, and Behanans of the world aren't coming here to play for Cincinnati. They are coming because of Mick Cronin.

There has been nothing but negativity surrounding this program for many years. Some don't like to accept it but it is exactly why a change had to be made. Hopefully this can get turned around.

Xavier has been riding a rocket the past 5-6 years. The perception of them is changing for the better. They are beginning to be seen as a big time program and have found a formula that breeds continuity.

[bearcatbret]

Also, X keeps their dirty laundry in house. For every incident that UC has X has close to one as well. It happens at all colleges where 18-22 yr students may be away from home for the first time (including the general students) and do stupid stuff. However, it seems that not only does the local media cover UC's bad press (extensively), the national media does as well.

[lnclemm]

Just over 3000 people have voted, not a very good sample size. That being said, go vote for your school!!

[LongTimer]

I keep telling people on here that the U.C. brand name is way down and this is a good example. Perception is people's reality. Sadly, for the past 6-7 years the perception of the Marquette student section is the perception of Cincinnati basketball nationally.

It is another obstacle that Mick is having to overcome to recruit here. The Gate's, Wright's, and Behanans of the world aren't coming here to play for Cincinnati. They are coming because of Mick Cronin.

There has been nothing but negativity surrounding this program for many years. Some don't like to accept it but it is exactly why a change had to be made. Hopefully this can get turned around.

Xavier has been riding a rocket the past 5-6 years. The perception of them is changing for the better. They are beginning to be seen as a big time program and have found a formula that breeds continuity.

The negativity surrounding the former coach was about stupid things some of his players did and a flawed graduation measuring system. Those incidents were not good, but they added to the tough guy image that we carried around. Teams knew that when they played Cincinnati, they were in for a war. I didn't like the players doing stupid stuff, but I enjoyed the image of toughness and blue-collar work ethic that we had. Our image today is just as negative, but in a different way. Now, most of our players are behaving, but the intimidation factor on the court is gone. We are not playing in the post season. We are collapsing when it counts. Even the difference in coaches....the big bad Bob Huggins and his ranting and raving versus the smaller, under control, emotionless, Mick Cronin, gives us a whole different image. Even though we developed that rogue tough-guy image under Huggs, that image had some appeal to the inner city basketball players and many still wanted to play here....plus we were consistent winners.

Now, our image is cleaner, but we have fallen out of the college basketball limelight. We're not winning consistently and our fans are disinterested. Calipari has a very similar image as Huggs had. Many think he cheats. Yet, here he is now at Kentucky cleaning up on the great recruits. That type of image and that type of coach has an appeal to recruits.....plus, they love to win.

It's great that Mick is cleaning up the negative image, but it is meaningless if he can't produce a consistent winner. The negative losing image will just replace the negative criminal image, which is happening today. This poll reflects that. It's sad that we have sunk to the point where there is a public belief that Xavier's coaching job is way better than ours. Of course, that is an absolute joke, but if the public really perceives us that way, it may explain why we are suddenly having a difficult time recruiting players. Mick really has his work cut out for him.

[catscratchfever]

Even the difference in coaches....the big bad Bob Huggins and his ranting and raving versus the smaller, under control, emotionless, Mick Cronin, gives us a whole different image.
You make some good points in this post Longtimer but I would like to correct you on one account. Mick is guilty of a lot of things, but a lack of emotion is not one of them. The guy gets as fired up as any coach out there. See the Notre Dame game this year as a prime example.

[bearcatbret]

Mick certainly does not get any love from the refs. UC gets a lot of bad calls and the refs never listen to Mick.

[LongTimer]

You make some good points in this post Longtimer but I would like to correct you on one account. Mick is guilty of a lot of things, but a lack of emotion is not one of them. The guy gets as fired up as any coach out there. See the Notre Dame game this year as a prime example.

Mick has a few moments each game, but overall, I don't see a lot of emotion coming out of him. However, I did notice a big difference down the stretch as the season started unravling in front of him. I think he started panicking and he became much more animated and showing a lot of anger and other emotions towards the players. But, for most of the season, I still think he was pretty emotionless on the sidelines.

[Bearcat Jeff]

The negativity surrounding the former coach was about stupid things some of his players did and a flawed graduation measuring system. Those incidents were not good, but they added to the tough guy image that we carried around. Teams knew that when they played Cincinnati, they were in for a war. I didn't like the players doing stupid stuff, but I enjoyed the image of toughness and blue-collar work ethic that we had. Our image today is just as negative, but in a different way. Now, most of our players are behaving, but the intimidation factor on the court is gone. We are not playing in the post season. We are collapsing when it counts. Even the difference in coaches....the big bad Bob Huggins and his ranting and raving versus the smaller, under control, emotionless, Mick Cronin, gives us a whole different image. Even though we developed that rogue tough-guy image under Huggs, that image had some appeal to the inner city basketball players and many still wanted to play here....plus we were consistent winners.

Now, our image is cleaner, but we have fallen out of the college basketball limelight. We're not winning consistently and our fans are disinterested. Calipari has a very similar image as Huggs had. Many think he cheats. Yet, here he is now at Kentucky cleaning up on the great recruits. That type of image and that type of coach has an appeal to recruits.....plus, they love to win.

It's great that Mick is cleaning up the negative image, but it is meaningless if he can't produce a consistent winner. The negative losing image will just replace the negative criminal image, which is happening today. This poll reflects that. It's sad that we have sunk to the point where there is a public belief that Xavier's coaching job is way better than ours. Of course, that is an absolute joke, but if the public really perceives us that way, it may explain why we are suddenly having a difficult time recruiting players. Mick really has his work cut out for him.

My whole point is to say that the perception of U.C. nationally is negative and it has been for some time. The national media created alot of this by not doing their homework. The lack of control in the program only helped to give them fodder. Obviously U.C. should be considered the better job. The perception, and current reality, is that Xavier has been the better program since Thadd Matta was there. Stock is bought while it's hot. That's why people have bought in to Xavier. Long term the trend will come back to U.C..

I totally disagree that Mick doesn't show emotion. He is always quick to stand up for the team and try to make sure they get respected. More calls come with success. I have seen people on here say he gets to emotional and needs to stop and coach more in the game. Which is it?

[LongTimer]

My whole point is to say that the perception of U.C. nationally is negative and it has been for some time. The national media created alot of this by not doing their homework. The lack of control in the program only helped to give them fodder. Obviously U.C. should be considered the better job. The perception, and current reality, is that Xavier has been the better program since Thadd Matta was there. Stock is bought while it's hot. That's why people have bought in to Xavier. Long term the trend will come back to U.C..

I totally disagree that Mick doesn't show emotion. He is always quick to stand up for the team and try to make sure they get respected. More calls come with success. I have seen people on here say he gets to emotional and needs to stop and coach more in the game. Which is it?

No question the Media unfairly created a lot of our negative image. I have never heard anybody say Mick is so emotional that he needs to slow down and coach. You could have said that about Huggs, but compared to him, Mick is a pussycat. I go to every game and most of the time Mick is pretty placid, but I guess we'll agree to disagree on his level of emotion.

[jlr1523]

Lets just face it. The UC basketball program has been ruined by Dr. Zimpher. It's been totally destroyed. I kills me to say it but UC isn't even a prominent name anymore. In college hoops, your name is critical when it comes to recruiting. Thats why, i believe, that UC is having no luck landing big time players. It's really sad.

[ralph1950]

Lets just face it. The UC basketball program has been ruined by Dr. Zimpher. It's been totally destroyed. I kills me to say it but UC isn't even a prominent name anymore. In college hoops, your name is critical when it comes to recruiting. Thats why, i believe, that UC is having no luck landing big time players. It's really sad.

The UC basketball program was destroyed by Bob Huggins, he is the one and only person to blame.

[London 'Cat]

The UC basketball program was destroyed by Bob Huggins, he is the one and only person to blame.

Ralph - such bold and broad statements never yield any positive responses. Even I, a voice of reason and logic on this forum, must disagree with such a statement. While Huggins contributed to the current state of the basketball program, he is absolutely not the one and only person to blame. It's simply ignoring the facts and circumstances of the program to state otherwise.

[westsidecat]

Ralph - such bold and broad statements never yield any positive responses. Even I, a voice of reason and logic on this forum, must disagree with such a statement. While Huggins contributed to the current state of the basketball program, he is absolutely not the one and only person to blame. It's simply ignoring the facts and circumstances of the program to state otherwise.

I disagree.

Huggins should take all the heat. I think if people really took a step back and looked at the situation, then if you are going to blame someone for what happen, then that person is clearly Huggins. IMO

[LongTimer]

I disagree.

Huggins should take all the heat. I think if people really took a step back and looked at the situation, then if you are going to blame someone for what happen, then that person is clearly Huggins. IMO

Another thread hijacked again. Oh well, might as well add my two cents worth. If it hadn't of been for Huggs, there would have been no program to destroy. Blaming the fall on Huggs is clearly a minority opinion and not indicative of how the average UC fan feels.

[Lobot]

Another thread hijacked again. Oh well, might as well add my two cents worth. If it hadn't of been for Huggs, there would have been no program to destroy. Blaming the fall on Huggs is clearly a minority opinion and not indicative of how the average UC fan feels.

Have we forgotten about John Loyer or is he just the scapegoat still?

[Bearcat Jeff]

This has truly reached the absurd. Can we please have a thread in the general forum for those that want to continue to debate the Bob Huggins firing. I want to talk U.C. basketball with people that look forward. Regardless of what happened, and how, this is where we are. The focus and debate should be on how do we move forward, not looking back. I have never seen a group that holds so firmly to the past and clings to a figure like it was their dead relative. Please let's move forward.....PLEASE!!!

[London 'Cat]

I disagree.

Huggins should take all the heat. I think if people really took a step back and looked at the situation, then if you are going to blame someone for what happen, then that person is clearly Huggins. IMO

That's my point. You cannot blame someONE. It was the decisions and actions of several people that damaged the program.

[LongTimer]

This has truly reached the absurd. Can we please have a thread in the general forum for those that want to continue to debate the Bob Huggins firing. I want to talk U.C. basketball with people that look forward. Regardless of what happened, and how, this is where we are. The focus and debate should be on how do we move forward, not looking back. I have never seen a group that holds so firmly to the past and clings to a figure like it was their dead relative. Please let's move forward.....PLEASE!!!

BJ, there is one, and only one, person who can move this program and this forum forward and put Bob Huggins in the rearview mirror, and that is Mick Cronin. In three years, his accomplishments have not been enough to stop ths talk and arguing about Huggs. When he, or the next coach, gets us back to where we were...or even beyond where we were, the talk of Huggs will end. It's almost like the Reds fans being upset for a decade and a half and continuing to talk about Sparky Anderson. Finally, Lou Pinella comes along and wins a World Series and the fans finally let Sparky go....but he is still loved by everyone here in Cincinnati. When, or "if", Mick can ever accomplish some measure of sustained success, or get us to a final four, or even win a championship, then everyone will move on and let go of Huggs. Until then, the great memories of Huggs' years will dominate the conversation and Mick will continue to be compared to him.

[London 'Cat]

BJ, there is one, and only one, person who can move this program and this forum forward and put Bob Huggins in the rearview mirror, and that is Mick Cronin. In three years, his accomplishments have not been enough to stop ths talk and arguing about Huggs. When he, or the next coach, gets us back to where we were...or even beyond where we were, the talk of Huggs will end. It's almost like the Reds fans being upset for a decade and a half and continuing to talk about Sparky Anderson. Finally, Lou Pinella comes along and wins a World Series and the fans finally let Sparky go....but he is still loved by everyone here in Cincinnati. When, or "if", Mick can ever accomplish some measure of sustained success, or get us to a final four, or even win a championship, then everyone will move on and let go of Huggs. Until then, the great memories of Huggs' years will dominate the conversation and Mick will continue to be compared to him.

Unfortunately, LT is probably correct. Right now, the program's condition is such that fans are dissatisfied. It is difficult for them to foresee success in the program based on the on-court performance the last three years. It has been said before, but it still holds true - winning cures all ills.

[bearcatbret]

Yeah, just like UK sold out every game last year and they had a great season and made a long run in the tourney. Oops, they sucked. It is the fan base. If you have true fans, they go and cheer their team (or boo them). I can predict with certainty that if UC wins 21 or more games next year, they will still only average 7-8,000 per game. Yet, they will go to the Bengals games to watch a 4 win team.

[LongTimer]

Yeah, just like UK sold out every game last year and they had a great season and made a long run in the tourney. Oops, they sucked. It is the fan base. If you have true fans, they go and cheer their team (or boo them). I can predict with certainty that if UC wins 21 or more games next year, they will still only average 7-8,000 per game. Yet, they will go to the Bengals games to watch a 4 win team.

Our athletic administration jacked up UCAT fees, ticket prices, and took seats away from long time season ticket holders while we have been losing. If we were Kentucky, it would not have mattered. It was a big deal for our fickle fans, and they quit coming to games. Losing has only added to the problem. There is bitterness, pricing, and losing to overcome before fans wil return. Winning alone will not do it. They had a chance to drop prices this year and make a statement. They chose the status quo. They certainly made a statement, but that statement isn't going to get any fans back. I expect less fans this year. If we start winning and the season is looking good, some will return, but it will not be a dramatic increase.

[London 'Cat]

Our athletic administration jacked up UCAT fees, ticket prices, and took seats away from long time season ticket holders while we have been losing. If we were Kentucky, it would not have mattered. It was a big deal for our fickle fans, and they quit coming to games. Losing has only added to the problem. There is bitterness, pricing, and losing to overcome before fans wil return. Winning alone will not do it. They had a chance to drop prices this year and make a statement. They chose the status quo. They certainly made a statement, but that statement isn't going to get any fans back. I expect less fans this year. If we start winning and the season is looking good, some will return, but it will not be a dramatic increase.

Not exactly a sound business strategy, to say the least. I agree with LT here.

As to bret's points re: UK, there are many important distinctions between UC and UK. One is the lack of competition for sports dollars. There are not two major-league professional teams in Lexington competing for fans' dollars like there are in Cincinnati. Plus, there is not another D1 men's basketball program in the same city like there is in Cincinnati. But, and I hate to generalize, UK's fans do seem more engaged with the program than do UC's as evidenced by sellouts at all games irrespective of the team's performance.

[catscratchfever]

This has truly reached the absurd. Can we please have a thread in the general forum for those that want to continue to debate the Bob Huggins firing. I want to talk U.C. basketball with people that look forward. Regardless of what happened, and how, this is where we are. The focus and debate should be on how do we move forward, not looking back. I have never seen a group that holds so firmly to the past and clings to a figure like it was their dead relative. Please let's move forward.....PLEASE!!!

Jeff..I am 100% with you on this. I really wish this board could get back to what it used to be. However, until the rules are enforced as they are threatened, every single thread will continue to be hijacked and turned into a Mick vs Huggs discussion.

[Doss]

Five years ago:

Attendance UC Wins
Coach UC Wins
Post Season UC Wins
Overall UC Wins

Today:

Attendance XU Wins
Coach TBD
Post Season XU Wins
Overall XU Wins

[Lobot]

Once again certain people have felt to hijack a thread that has nothing to do with Bob Huggins