Tired of not seeing UC in pre-season polls. What about 2010-11?

[CincyEngGrad02]

Starting lineup will probably look like this:
PG - Cash
SG - Kendrick
SF - Thomas
PF - Gates
C - Payne

And on the bench:
Dixon
Davis
Wilks
Parker
Kilpatrick
McClain
Bishop
Pilgrim

Tell me that isn't going to a top 10-15 team. We just have to hope Gates doesn't go pro after this year. It may be tough putting freshman in those starting positions, but with the leadership surrounding them I don't see it being a problem. Maybe Kendrick could be a 6 man or something.

And don't even get me started about the 2011-12 team. Losing only Thomas, Biggie, Bishop, Davis and Wilks but gaining Teague and Behanan. :eek:

[Bcat]

Starting lineup will probably look like this:
PG - Cash
SG - Kendrick
SF - Thomas
PF - Gates
C - Payne

And on the bench:
Dixon
Davis
Wilks
Parker
Kilpatrick
McClain
Bishop
Pilgrim

Tell me that isn't going to a top 10-15 team. We just have to hope Gates doesn't go pro after this year. It may be tough putting freshman in those starting positions, but with the leadership surrounding them I don't see it being a problem. Maybe Kendrick could be a 6 man or something.

And don't even get me started about the 2011-12 team. Losing only Thomas, Biggie, Bishop, Davis and Wilks but gaining Teague and Behanan. :eek:

If this is the starting lineup and rest of the team for 2010, then this will be a top 5 team and the recruiting class will be also be highly rated even though it is only two guys. That will be two top 10 players.

[BearcatRob33]

oh man, do we really need to think this far in advance? we couldn't predict at the beginning of last year how the current team was going to do...i don't know how we could possibly predict how the team two years out is going to perform.

[BearcatAlum1]

^ That is some optimistic thinking. I don't think we land Payne or Teague, but have an outside chance with Kendrick.

I truly believe that much of our success this year will impact a "few" big recruits or so.......

[Best Body]

^ That is some optimistic thinking. I don't think we land Payne or Teague, but have an outside chance with Kendrick.

I truly believe that much of our success this year will impact a "few" big recruits or so.......

Not to mention the optimism of considering Gates going pro after this year. Last year he did not show promise of being an NBA player some day - not even close. Reasonable people that watch pro games will agree. Perhaps I'm not in the loop on some sort of dramatic off-season improvement, but unless he plans to go play in some European league, I think were pretty safe assuming he'll be back for his Junior year (at least in terms of leaving for the NBA).

[Bearcat Cafe]

Showed no promise of being an NBA player some day? Sometimes I think there needs to be a preview pane before you can submit a post.

[BearcatAlum1]

Gates has tremendous potential. His body is unreal for a kid that is 19-20 years old. He has a professional body now, with a good skill set.

It's everything between his ears that stunts his true ability. He has the athleticism to play in the League right now. He doesn't have the knowledge or brain. Hopefully, he will come around.

Alum1

[London 'Cat]

Not to mention the optimism of considering Gates going pro after this year. Last year he did not show promise of being an NBA player some day - not even close. Reasonable people that watch pro games will agree. Perhaps I'm not in the loop on some sort of dramatic off-season improvement, but unless he plans to go play in some European league, I think were pretty safe assuming he'll be back for his Junior year (at least in terms of leaving for the NBA).

I agree with BB about Gates' NBA prospects. Until he shows he can dominate any and every opponent, he is not ready to jump to the NBA. Unless he has a sophomore season as good as or better than Blair from Pitt had in '08-'09, he will be back for his junior year. Based on what I saw his freshman year, I don't see him having that kind of improvement in just one offseason.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Based just on his body, skill set, and his upside, if he would have pulled a boneheaded move and declared this year, some team would have used a 2nd rounder on him and stashed him the developmental league. To say he showed no promise of being a NBA player is nuts.

[Not Guilty]

I agree with BB about Gates' NBA prospects. Until he shows he can dominate any and every opponent, he is not ready to jump to the NBA. Unless he has a sophomore season as good as or better than Blair from Pitt had in '08-'09, he will be back for his junior year. Based on what I saw his freshman year, I don't see him having that kind of improvement in just one offseason.

So he has to be the most efficient player in college basketball in order to consider going pro? Really? Those are the standards?

[shaunsimpson]

Not ready and not being able to be a high pick are two different things. See BJ Mullens who will be selected in the top 20 of the draft. He got beat down in a camp so bad he cried. I don't think he could contribute right away, but also don't think that you can say he showed no signs of being an NBA player.

[YouGuessedItFrankStallone]

IMO Gates is a better NBA prospect than Blair. Sure Blair is stronger and more skilled, but he doesn't have the height or athleticism to defend the larger 4's in the league. Maybe he can eek out a Danny Fortson-like career as a rebounding specialist, but I don't see him as an all-star level player at any point.

Gates, on the other hand, is still in his infancy as far as skill development, but has more of the physical attributes of a prototypical NBA 4 than Blair.

NBA draft is all about potential and projections. It wouldn't shock me one bit to see Gates go in the 1st round in 2010.

[Major ----de Coverley]

IMO Gates is a better NBA prospect than Blair. Sure Blair is stronger and more skilled, but he doesn't have the height or athleticism to defend the larger 4's in the league. Maybe he can eek out a Danny Fortson-like career as a rebounding specialist, but I don't see him as an all-star level player at any point.

Gates, on the other hand, is still in his infancy as far as skill development, but has more of the physical attributes of a prototypical NBA 4 than Blair.

NBA draft is all about potential and projections. It wouldn't shock me one bit to see Gates go in the 1st round in 2010.

Agreed on all points. Besides, nothing shocks me about the NBA draft since Robert Whaley went in the 2nd round as the 51st overall pick in the 2005 draft.

[Cats4Ever]

I think Gates needs to study film on the mailman - Karl Malone. If he gets half as good as him, look out.

Gates has the body type, but not the confidence or shooting ability yet. His defense is ok for now, needs improvement.

One more year maybe, IF he works on his game a lot.

Blair was a beast as a freshman, I didn't see the same level of beastliness from Gates.

[Best Body]

Based just on his body, skill set, and his upside, if he would have pulled a boneheaded move and declared this year, some team would have used a 2nd rounder on him and stashed him the developmental league. To say he showed no promise of being a NBA player is nuts.

I knew I'd get slammed on this by those who are either unreasonable, or don't watch pro games. Also, I said it was very optimistic to say that he'd be a threat to leave after this year, not that he'd never be drafted.

Also note that being a 2nd round pick won't get you in the league. It's similar to being a 7th round pick in the NFL, based on the number of open roster spots, turnover, etc. In fact, it is widely known that players often prefer to be undrafted, to have a better chance to catch on with a team they feel is a better fit. A bearcat that some of you remember dominating college basketball was the first pick in the 2nd round, and never came close to making a roster. Players that put their names in the draft and hear that they are in the 2nd round, typically go back to school, unless they plan to play in Europe, don't think they will improve further, or are stupid.

Every team in the NBA has a power forward or two with as much athletic ability than Gates. Those guys also happen to be able to shoot, rebound, and play D. His athletic ability is not SO outstanding that he will be seen by NBA scouts as some can't miss project due to being physically superior to anyone. He has the basic physical athletic talent to play in the NBA (which is alot), but not more than that. If he doesn't greatly improve his skillset, he'll never see the floor in an NBA game.

He scared no one in the Big East last year, and unless he improves dramatically, he won't sniff third team all conference, this year. That won't get him drafted in the NBA, and certainly won't land him a roster spot. Think about how dominant Maxiell was here, and he is barely in the league. Gates hasn't even begun to approach his level.

To get drafted in the first round and make a team, Gates will need to be a top 5 or 6 power forward in the NCAAs (better if there are any European PFs better than him). To be honest, I'd be satisfied if he were the 5th or 6th best power forward in the Big East, next year. It would mean he got ALOT better.

The examples of Mullins and Whaley sucking and being likely to be drafted doesn't apply b/c they are taller/Centers. Centers are more rare, so unskilled players at that position get flyers more easily. They don't necessarily stick, but there are a dozen athletic 6'9 guys for every decent player with a Center's height.

Listen, Gates may develop into a pro caliber player someday, but don't look for it to happen by next spring, unless he hits a growth spurt and gets taller, or wins the Big East most improved player award.

[LongTimer]

I knew I'd get slammed on this by those who are either unreasonable, or don't watch pro games.

First, being a 2nd round pick, won't get you in the league. In fact, it is widely known that players often prefer to be undrafted, to have a better chance to catch on with a team they feel is a better fit. A bearcat that some of you remember dominating college basketball was the first pick in the 2nd round, and never came close to making a roster. Players that put their names in the draft and hear that they are in the 2nd round, typically go back to school, unless they plan to play in Europe, or are stupid.

Every team in the NBA has a power forward with more athletic ability than Gates. Those guys also happen to be able to shoot, rebound, and play D. His athletic ability is not SO outstanding that he will be seen by NBA scouts as this or that..... The confusion is that compared to the rest of our players his athletic ability makes some on here who probably don't watch NBA games into thinking he has more athleticism than he really does. The fact is that he scared no one in the Big East last year, and unless he improves dramatically, he won't sniff third team all conference, this year. That won't get him drafted in the NBA, and certainly won't land him a roster spot. Think about how dominant Maxiell was here, and he is barely in the league. Gates hasn't even begun to approach his level.

To get drafted in the first round and make a team, Gates will need to be a top 5 or 6 power forward in the NCAAs. To be honest, I'd be thrilled if he were the 5th or 6th best power forward in the Big East, next year.

Someones example of Mullins sucking and being likely to be drafted doesn't apply b/c Mullins is taller. Centers are more rare, so unskilled players at that position get flyers more easily.

Listen, Gates may develop into a pro caliber player someday, but don't look for it to happen by next spring, unless he hits a growth spurt and gets taller.

I saw flashes from Yancy Gates, but I have been very vocal all year in declaring Gates a disappointment. I don't care what his numbers say. I don't care that he was an all-BE Freshman. I look at his body and his skills and I think potential, and I feel his results did not come near his potential. I seen him dogging it up and down the court all year. I sam him not working hard for position down low. I saw him being distant and pouting on the bench often, at times not even listening to what the coach had to say. He was rarely busting it up the court. Only when he thought he might get a dunk opportunity did he bust his a$$ up the court. 6 rebounds per game...with that body...give me a break. Mick had him on the bench a lot for his attitude and effort. I compare him to Dontonio Wingfield....similar size, similar body....and Gates wasn't even close to Wingfield as a Freshman, in ability or in attitude. I saw Wingfield diving on the floor often in his freshman year. He came in with a bad attitude reputation also, but he displayed fire on the court. His results blew away what Yancy Gates accomplished last year. And Wingfield barely sniffed the NBA. Gates will have to do a whole lot more before he ever even sniffs the NBA. Another poster said it's all "between the ears". The trash heap is littered with guys like Yancy Gates, tons of talent, but the wrong attitude to get to the next level. I hope he learned a lesson last year and comes out like a beast this year. The potential is there.

[Best Body]

Just to comment further on Gates leaving early:

Tyler H from UNC and the stud from Gonzaga are the PFs projected at the end of round 1 in the upcoming NBA draft. Gates has a good body, but clearly has a LONG way to go before considering entering the draft.

[dp3113]

Just to comment further on Gates leaving early:

Tyler H from UNC and the stud from Gonzaga are the PFs projected at the end of round 1 in the upcoming NBA draft. Gates has a good body, but clearly has a LONG way to go before considering entering the draft.

Being ready for the NBA has nothing to do with declaring. Is Kareem Cooper from UTEP ready? What about Chinemelu Elonu from Texas A&M? Terrence Roderick from UAB? None of these guys averaged as many points as Gates and played against worse competition. You need to stop arguing whether or not he is ready, and start wondering when he will decide to declare. First off, everyone thinks they are better than they really are. Second, guys get the wrong voices in their ear and think they are in the money, and go regardless of how ready they are. No matter what, there will always be a demand for big men in the NBA, no matter how ready or refined they are. With that being said, there is always a threat of Gates, or any good big man at UC leaving at anytime in their college career.

[dp3113]

Starting lineup will probably look like this:
PG - Cash
SG - Kendrick
SF - Thomas
PF - Gates
C - Payne

And on the bench:
Dixon
Davis
Wilks
Parker
Kilpatrick
McClain
Bishop
Pilgrim

Tell me that isn't going to a top 10-15 team. We just have to hope Gates doesn't go pro after this year. It may be tough putting freshman in those starting positions, but with the leadership surrounding them I don't see it being a problem. Maybe Kendrick could be a 6 man or something.

And don't even get me started about the 2011-12 team. Losing only Thomas, Biggie, Bishop, Davis and Wilks but gaining Teague and Behanan. :eek:

the odds of UC landing both Payne and Kendrick are less than 0%.

[mike pinzki]

. . . A bearcat that some of you remember dominating college basketball was the first pick in the 2nd round, and never came close to making a roster. . .

James White never came close to being a dominate college basketball player.

[Not Guilty]

James White never came close to being a dominate college basketball player.

He was referring to Steve Logan, which is a stupid comparison.

[mike pinzki]

He was referring to Steve Logan, which is a stupid comparison.

That would make a lot more sense, thanks for the clarification.

[Bearcat Cafe]

I knew I'd get slammed on this by those who are either unreasonable, or don't watch pro games. Also, I said it was very optimistic to say that he'd be a threat to leave after this year, not that he'd never be drafted.

Also note that being a 2nd round pick won't get you in the league. It's similar to being a 7th round pick in the NFL, based on the number of open roster spots, turnover, etc. In fact, it is widely known that players often prefer to be undrafted, to have a better chance to catch on with a team they feel is a better fit. A bearcat that some of you remember dominating college basketball was the first pick in the 2nd round, and never came close to making a roster. Players that put their names in the draft and hear that they are in the 2nd round, typically go back to school, unless they plan to play in Europe, don't think they will improve further, or are stupid.

Every team in the NBA has a power forward or two with as much athletic ability than Gates. Those guys also happen to be able to shoot, rebound, and play D. His athletic ability is not SO outstanding that he will be seen by NBA scouts as some can't miss project due to being physically superior to anyone. He has the basic physical athletic talent to play in the NBA (which is alot), but not more than that. If he doesn't greatly improve his skillset, he'll never see the floor in an NBA game.

He scared no one in the Big East last year, and unless he improves dramatically, he won't sniff third team all conference, this year. That won't get him drafted in the NBA, and certainly won't land him a roster spot. Think about how dominant Maxiell was here, and he is barely in the league. Gates hasn't even begun to approach his level.

To get drafted in the first round and make a team, Gates will need to be a top 5 or 6 power forward in the NCAAs (better if there are any European PFs better than him). To be honest, I'd be satisfied if he were the 5th or 6th best power forward in the Big East, next year. It would mean he got ALOT better.

The examples of Mullins and Whaley sucking and being likely to be drafted doesn't apply b/c they are taller/Centers. Centers are more rare, so unskilled players at that position get flyers more easily. They don't necessarily stick, but there are a dozen athletic 6'9 guys for every decent player with a Center's height.

Listen, Gates may develop into a pro caliber player someday, but don't look for it to happen by next spring, unless he hits a growth spurt and gets taller, or wins the Big East most improved player award.


Unreasonable or those that don't watch pro games? Me thinks you hold too high an estimation of your own abilities. Screen name should have tipped me off.:rolleyes:

[Bearcat John 69]

best body, i agree that centers will be drafted before power forwards. teams are always chasing after 5's.
and maxiell is hardly a guy barely holding onto a roster spot. not a star, but the pistons are happy to have him, and i'm sure there are plenty of other teams who would like him to be in their own rotation.

[London 'Cat]

best body, i agree that centers will be drafted before power forwards. teams are always chasing after 5's.
and maxiell is hardly a guy barely holding onto a roster spot. not a star, but the pistons are happy to have him, and i'm sure there are plenty of other teams who would like him to be in their own rotation.

John just bolstered BB's argument. When Maxiell completed his eligibility and graduated, he was a MUCH better player than Gates was this past season. And while none of us can predict the future, I believe the difference between Maxiell as a senior and Gates as a freshman is far greater than can be overcome this upcoming season.

[Best Body]

Unreasonable or those that don't watch pro games? Me thinks you hold too high an estimation of your own abilities. Screen name should have tipped me off.:rolleyes:


Screen name is sarcastic, and an inside joke. No special abilities here, but apparently the forum has many that lack of ability to be impartial. I also honestly think alot of NCAA fans do not watch NBA, particularly in Cincinnati (since we lack a team). Plus, we are desperate for an NBA talent, so we often see what we want to see. Relative to our other post players, I suppose he looks like he would be NBA caliber.

[Best Body]

He was referring to Steve Logan, which is a stupid comparison.


"We mock what we don't understand."

Just a joke - relax

I was just trying to point out that being a potential 2nd round pick isn't a real great position for a player to be in, so having that status (and I don't think he is even a lock for the 2nd round yet) doesn't make him a threat to leave early.

[bearcatbret]

Well, this year NBA draft will be interesting. One draft analysis has XU Derrick Brown going at the end of the first round and another analysis has him in early in the second round. We will see how he goes and what kind of career he will have. I think that his numbers were close to Gates and his success may influence Yancy.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090615/SPT0102/306150054/1065/Brown+officially+leaving+for+NBA

[Joe_Pong]

Gates has a good shot to be an NBA player if he stays at UC for 4 years and develops his game, but he has a long way to go. Yeah, he has the body and the physical tools, but it takes a lot more than that. I don't know if some people on this board just don't live in an NBA city or don't follow it that closely, but if Gates comes out after next year, his NBA career could be about as successful as Dontonio's.

As for predictions on the upcoming season or the season after next... For next year, we have Vaughn who is good, and Gates who is kind of raw but showed flashes of being a good player. The rest of our starting lineup consists of a center who many on this board want to run out of the program (McClain), a small forward (Bishop) who has shown nothing special and should not be starting on a quality team, and a first year PG who has yet to prove anything and on top of that is coming off a shredded knee. Our bench consists of guys some of whom have produced now and then, but certainly not on a consistent basis. And we have a big man from OSU who will become eligible to play at some point that everyone is hyping big time, but wasn't all that productive at OSU. That's the bad news. On paper it's not too promising.

The good news is the games are not played on paper and these guys have a chance to improve. Hopefully some of them will. Bottom line is we need big time improvement and a lot more out of Biggie and Bishop. And the new guys and bench players have to step it up a notch. And hopefully the guys we are bringing in are better than the guys we already have. If that happens we can compete. As for predictions of a top 10-15 team, I think that is a stretch until we sprinkle in some occasional recruits who are better than just in the top 100 or so. I think the guys we have will be solid and over time their experience can carry them to a point, but we lack the type of players to make it to the next level.

Maybe some of those guys you are talking about brining in two years down the road will be those guys. Don't know anything about recruiting and would never base my predictions on some high school kids who may or may not ever come here and may or may not pan out even if they do. I'm just going off of what I see on paper right now.

[behrlezt]

^ That is some optimistic thinking. I don't think we land Payne or Teague, but have an outside chance with Kendrick.

I truly believe that much of our success this year will impact a "few" big recruits or so.......

You may be surprised how recruits minds change after seeing us do really well next season..i would say only Teague is out of the running...

[bearcatbret]

You may be surprised how recruits minds change after seeing us do really well next season..i would say only Teague is out of the running...

Winning AND filling the house with fans.

[dp3113]

You may be surprised how recruits minds change after seeing us do really well next season..i would say only Teague is out of the running...

But if they sign in November they will not be able to see our results...this year there was a lot left over, but most talent is signed by November.

[Bcat]

the odds of UC landing both Payne and Kendrick are less than 0%.

Not True. You would be surprised at how well Mick is doing and has been able to step up the recruiting in a big way now that everything else is in place. Just sit back and wait. Remember 2009 recruiting is not over yet. Do not count anyone out in the 2010 class who is not already committed somewhere, I know you do not trust me but you will have to wait. Just like everyone else.

[CincyEngGrad02]

Not True. You would be surprised at how well Mick is doing and has been able to step up the recruiting in a big way now that everything else is in place. Just sit back and wait. Remember 2009 recruiting is not over yet. Do not count anyone out in the 2010 class who is not already committed somewhere, I know you do not trust me but you will have to wait. Just like everyone else.

Agree 100%. Mick will have these 2 begging to come play for the Cats after this season when they win the Big East (or at least top 2) and make it to the Big Dance.
Aren't there new uniforms this year too? That can only help.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Agree 100%. Mick will have these 2 begging to come play for the Cats after this season when they win the Big East (or at least top 2) and make it to the Big Dance.
Aren't there new uniforms this year too? That can only help.

Those 2 (Payne and Kendrick) will have committed this summer or fall and signed in November.

No one will have won the B-East or danced in the NCAA by then.

[Bearcat John 69]

Winning AND filling the house with fans.

mick was in the booth with thom and welsh for a bit last night. thom mentioned what a full shoe can do for the bearcats, and mick said something about bearcat lair seats for 180 bucks. i wonder if that can fill the upper reaches?
now if we could just get the students to fill their free seats, we might have a good home court atmosphere again.

[London 'Cat]

Those 2 (Payne and Kendrick) will have committed this summer or fall and signed in November.

No one will have won the B-East or danced in the NCAA by then.

They will be committed and signed by November, in my opinion. The question is to which school?