Thoughts on games at US Bank?

[Forsure21]

You know things are dead on the basketball side when nobody is discussing this. From Kitchen Kochs blog http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog04&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ada6629a0-7bd0-4605-8869-25a20cb5adabPost%3a0b5776bd-b9d9-4a00-8942-c09cb0d0efa9&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

I would personally love it. That Arena needs to be renovated to begin with and it sure does beat 5/3rd arena from my view. Would love if UC and US Bank officials worked together to maybe renovate it and for UC to play home games there. IMO, the UC basketball team is Cincinnati's NBA team and this would give the program more of NBA feel.

I know most here don't like US Bank but I think going this route would save UC money from rennovating 5/3rd Arena.

[GoCats1994]

Both US Bank & the Shoe present the same problem...they were both built to be multi-purpose facilities. The seating arrangements are both terrible for basketball.

[franzeal]

Do Not Want

[bearcattg]

I'm not sure what the benefits would be. UC can barely get students to attend now, and while many schools play off campus that require students to bus in, UC doesn't need to provide another excuse for students not to come. The atmosphere at US isn't the same, and it never will. I understand that this would be an alternative to a renovation or new arena, but in my mind it's either the Shoe, or a new Shoe. US Bank just isn't right.

[milfordcats]

No no no no no.

Don't move off campus! It would kill the student support.

[Boosilini]

I think US is a great place to watch a game personally.But,any money they have they need to invest it in the Shoe.Maybe more or better screens so the nosebleeds and upper tier can see the game better.Escalators too lol.A Kenyon Statue?Or just remodel the whole darn gym.
________
Sweet_Raspberry (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/sweet_raspberry/)

[Scheids21]

Student support has been down for many games of late obviously. How can we make this worse? Move the home games off campus. Not a good idea.

[Globe Trotting Cat Fan]

I agree that moving the games off campus is not a very good idea.

To think that it would in any way help in terms of support from the fans actually GOING to games (particularly students) does not make any sense to me at all.

Now, if US Bank is going to end up offering some ridiculous sum of money to make this happen that can be used towards other things, then I can pretty much guarantee the administration at UC will want to jump all over the idea.

[CroninCrazy]

No no no no no.

Don't move off campus! It would kill the student support.

X2...my vote is NO!

[bacsidoan]

A resounding NO. I was there in the 70's, not a good place :eek:

[Bcat007]

Got to agree with the naysayers on this one. However should there be renovation at the shoe, the team would need a temporary place to play home games. US would be the only real alternative at that point. I also believe renovation is the best option for the shoe because of a lack of funding due to projects already in the works. I say gut the building, re-arrange seating, convert the bleacher seats and raise the ceiling beams.

[nolte50uc]

You know things are dead on the basketball side when nobody is discussing this. From Kitchen Kochs blog http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog04&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ada6629a0-7bd0-4605-8869-25a20cb5adabPost%3a0b5776bd-b9d9-4a00-8942-c09cb0d0efa9&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

I would personally love it. That Arena needs to be renovated to begin with and it sure does beat 5/3rd arena from my view. Would love if UC and US Bank officials worked together to maybe renovate it and for UC to play home games there. IMO, the UC basketball team is Cincinnati's NBA team and this would give the program more of NBA feel.

I know most here don't like US Bank but I think going this route would save UC money from rennovating 5/3rd Arena.

dude, didn't you just start the same thread for football @ pbs a week ago? when's the post for moving baseball games to great american? :)

[Bearcat Revival]

LOLOLOL WHAT student support??? This is going to happen someday. Financially the best deal for a school that is broke!

[Lobot]

Shoemaker Center was built specifically to get basketball back ON campus. For those who suffered At The Cincinnati Coliseum and Gardens games, you can back me up when I say there would be ZERO student support at an off campus venue.

[BearcatRob33]

Agreed...terrible idea. You would kill the atmosphere. The same reason people don't want games at PBS for football can be said for basketball games at the Coliseum.

[Carin's Dad]

Didn't people just die there at a Who concert or something? Bad karma.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Would miss the nostalgia of the Shoe, but US Bank is definitely a better basketball venue. Not even close. The students don't come to games now (or even earlier this decade when the team was winning) so I won't waste time discussing the impact on their attendance. Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'. An added bonus is UC seems to just plain win games in that building.

PS: only way UC is getting a new/refurbished basketball arena on campus in the footprint of the Shoe is to relocate for a couple seasons.

[Cats4Ever]

Not a good idea at all. UC did that before. As a matter of fact, this is probably the stupidest idea in over 30 years for the basketball program.

Someone is trying to make basketball irrelevant at UC. Is it the spirit of Nancy-past?

[BearcatAlum1]

I don't dislike U.S. Bank, but it would be crazy to move home games off campus. Students are the most important fans at the games (b/c they actually cheer, yell, get rowdy, etc) and they're essential to a "true" homecourt advantage.

I'm against moving games to U.S. Bank.

5/3 should not be renovated. Somehow, it should be torn down and built as a basketball only facility. This won't happen anytime in the near future (say 20 years, hahah), but I would love to improve our basketball venue.

While many of you might not like the idea, build something like UD Arena, except our palace would hold about 15,000-18,000.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Just to clarify, how about we get thoughts on this from people who actually attend games.

[BearcatAlum1]

What does "attend" games mean?

Every game, half the games, a few games, games in the past, etc.?

The environment for games was much better 5+ years ago. It's now only half full with fans that are more willing to boo than stand and cheer their team.

So, maybe we should be discussing the fans instead of the venue?

[Bearcat Cafe]

How about just making the effort to attend more than one game a year (thus, attend game[s] plural). That probably eliminates 3/4 of the guys on this board (not picking on those of you out of town).

I just get sick of the preaching about what UC should do with facilities and then these same posters who live in the region chime in about what they saw on the telecast.:rolleyes:

[Namrag]

How about just making the effort to attend more than one game a year (thus, attend game[s] plural). That probably eliminates 3/4 of the guys on this board (not picking on those of you out of town).

I just get sick of the preaching about what UC should do with facilities and then these same posters who live in the region chime in about what they saw on the telecast.:rolleyes:

Whoopie, I guess that means I can reply!

I was at UC as a student when the Shoe opened. It was great for the program. Having spent a season taking the bus trip downtown, I can tell you it sucked big time. I hated that.

The games need to stay on campus. When the wins come back, so will the students.

As an alumni, coming back to campus for the games is very nice too. I like coming early sometimes and walking around campus, stopping at the book store, getting a bite to eat just off campus.

[aronius]

Put me down for worst idea ever. Keeping the games on campus is crucial. Not to mention us bank is an awful atmosphere for basketball. Dead quiet, seats start way too far back from the court, and the whole building just has an old dumpy feel to it. The shoe certainly has its faults but its on campus....nuff said.

[JDBEARCAT]

I'm not in favor of playing @ US Bank arena. The on-campus facility is where all colleges
need to play. We don't draw at home right now & not very well at US Bank. With that
being said, the Shoe needs to be redone. Drop the floor 10 feet, run stands up the wall
behind the basket & create more seats down low. The upper section seats should we
deeply discounted to appeal to the young fans. With more lower section seats, fans will
be willing to donate if they know they are guaranteed good seats.

[Bearcat Revival]

I bet this happens. UC will sign a 10-year deal or so. It will allow them to eventually level Shoemaker and replace with on-campus arena that is MUCH better. Don't discount US Bank's offer to front ALL upgrades, which means luxury boxes, locker rooms, seats, etc. Revenue stream!!

[Bearcat Cafe]

Put me down for worst idea ever. Keeping the games on campus is crucial. Not to mention us bank is an awful atmosphere for basketball. Dead quiet, seats start way too far back from the court, and the whole building just has an old dumpy feel to it. The shoe certainly has its faults but its on campus....nuff said.

I would prefer the games stay on campus as well. But the arena we have now stinks.

BTW: have you been to a game at US Bank in the last several years? Were you at the Notre Dame game last year? The conference tournament where Kirkland made the game winning turnaround versus UL? Its actually way louder than the Shoe. The lighting on the court is far better (Mick and Vaughn both said its a better facility from a shooting perspective than the Shoe's dingy yellow lighting). Don't even get me started on concessions and restrooms at the Shoe. And the seating is situated such that everyone is facing the action rather than some dead space on the other side of the arena where you have to turn your body to watch the court. They almost had to try to make the seating as bad as it is at Shoemaker. As far as seating, its one of the worst large program arenas I've been to.

Like I alluded to earlier, no way UC gets ever gets a new facility on campus without the team relocating for a couple seasons. This might just be the first baby step towards making that a reality.

[aronius]

I would prefer the games stay on campus as well. But the arena we have now stinks.

BTW: have you been to a game at US Bank in the last several years? Were you at the Notre Dame game last year? The conference tournament where Kirkland made the game winning turnaround versus UL? Its actually way louder than the Shoe. The lighting on the court is far better (Mick and Vaughn both said its a better facility from a shooting perspective than the Shoe's dingy yellow lighting). Don't even get me started on concessions and restrooms at the Shoe. And the seating is situated such that everyone is facing the action rather than some dead space on the other side of the arena where you have to turn your body to watch the court. They almost had to try to make the seating as bad as it is at Shoemaker. As far as seating, its one of the worst large program arenas I've been to.

Like I alluded to earlier, no way UC gets ever gets a new facility on campus without the team relocating for a couple seasons. This might just be the first baby step towards making that a reality.


I agree with alot of what you are saying. The Shoe was a terrible design and the upper corner seats are awful. UC will certainly have to relocate for several years while a new arena is built and the bank is the only option for that. I also agree that us bank has the advantage on restrooms and concessions.

I've been to every game they've played at us bank for the last 10 years or so and here are the problems I have with the switch. It is an absolute certainty that student attendence will take a nose dive. Arena "loudness" is obviously a matter of opinion but I think the Shoe wins that one. My seats at the Shoe are 8th row upper deck behind the UC bench fairly centered. When we are shipped down to the bank these seats translate into upper deck (not sure on the row) baseline seats.....which suck. Not sure if that is just me getting screwed but I would bet anything the seats at the bank are further from the court than the supposedly = seats at the Shoe.

The question I wonder about the most is how will UC make money having games at the bank? The owners of the bank are going to want a decent cut especially if they drop millions into a renovation of that pit. The extra capacity won't matter because frankly, UC isn't selling 15k tickets anytime soon. I just don't know how or why this would be done unless a new arena was on the horizon....which it's not.

[Class of '85]

I don't dislike U.S. Bank, but it would be crazy to move home games off campus. Students are the most important fans at the games (b/c they actually cheer, yell, get rowdy, etc) and they're essential to a "true" homecourt advantage.

I'm against moving games to U.S. Bank.

5/3 should not be renovated. Somehow, it should be torn down and built as a basketball only facility. This won't happen anytime in the near future (say 20 years, hahah), but I would love to improve our basketball venue.

While many of you might not like the idea, build something like UD Arena, except our palace would hold about 15,000-18,000.

I agree that the Shoe needs to be torn down and rebuilt. But it is never going to be a "basketball only" facility.

I agree that UD Arena is a much better place to watch a game than the Shoe. Funny that is much older (built in 1969). Why the Shoe wasn't designed better is a mystery to me.

[catscratchfever]

bad idea in my opinion..

[kcat]

No,,No,,No,,No,,
It's not a college sport unless it is played on campus.

[LongTimer]

Just to clarify, how about we get thoughts on this from people who actually attend games.

Right now, football is hot and you have to prioritize that sport. I love basketball, but the greater potential for big revenues lies in improving the football facilities (never thought I would say that!). 5/3 is one of the stupidest arenas ever built, but after suffering at Cint. Gardens and Riverfront Coliseum for years, it seemed like a palace. Now, it's a dinosaur and needs to be gone. Nothing would please me more than to get a new arena, but it probably won't happen for a long time. I think US Bank is a lot nicer now than it used to be and I wouldn't be totally upset if games were moved there, but I don't think the students will travel down there at all unless we are a Top 10 powerhouse. They're not coming to 5/3 either, but student involvment comes and goes anyway. If we get back to being a nationally ranked team, they will probably be back to 5/3. What we need to worry about now is getting our program back to being one of the 20 or 25 best in the nation, getting our fans to follow suit and return to the arena, and then we can worry about upgrades, although that lousy arena is part of the reason that fans aren't attending.

[Bearcat Cafe]

I agree with alot of what you are saying. The Shoe was a terrible design and the upper corner seats are awful. UC will certainly have to relocate for several years while a new arena is built and the bank is the only option for that. I also agree that us bank has the advantage on restrooms and concessions.

I've been to every game they've played at us bank for the last 10 years or so and here are the problems I have with the switch. It is an absolute certainty that student attendence will take a nose dive. Arena "loudness" is obviously a matter of opinion but I think the Shoe wins that one. My seats at the Shoe are 8th row upper deck behind the UC bench fairly centered. When we are shipped down to the bank these seats translate into upper deck (not sure on the row) baseline seats.....which suck. Not sure if that is just me getting screwed but I would bet anything the seats at the bank are further from the court than the supposedly = seats at the Shoe.

The question I wonder about the most is how will UC make money having games at the bank? The owners of the bank are going to want a decent cut especially if they drop millions into a renovation of that pit. The extra capacity won't matter because frankly, UC isn't selling 15k tickets anytime soon. I just don't know how or why this would be done unless a new arena was on the horizon....which it's not.


In the short term they'd make more $$ there than at the Shoe. Same reason we played the ND game there. We got paid to make the switch. Plus, UC doesn't have to mess with the overhead of staffing, concessions, utilities, upkeep and maintenence, etc. This isn't like the Bungles where they lease it out grudgingly. The US Bank Arena owners get it. They make $$ off doing the upgrades, paying UC via generous terms, and then bringing in capital on the 18 nights the facility is used rather than sitting dark. Those extra nights locked in over a few years would likely increase their business valuation to boot. UC would be in a position of power and could almost dictate the terms. No other options for US Bank suitors.


And don't be so sure the Shoe demo and redo is not on the horizon.

[Cats4Ever]

In the short term they'd make more $$ there than at the Shoe. Same reason we played the ND game there. We got paid to make the switch. Plus, UC doesn't have to mess with the overhead of staffing, concessions, utilities, upkeep and maintenence, etc. This isn't like the Bungles where they lease it out grudgingly. The US Bank Arena owners get it. They make $$ off doing the upgrades, paying UC via generous terms, and then bringing in capital on the 18 nights the facility is used rather than sitting dark. Those extra nights locked in over a few years would likely increase their business valuation to boot. UC would be in a position of power and could almost dictate the terms. No other options for US Bank suitors.


And don't be so sure the Shoe demo and redo is not on the horizon.

Curious as to why you are pushing this so hard. You must not have been here during the prior coliseum and gardens venues when UC played there. It was awful and took away any home court advantage.

Where the basketball program is today, they need every bit of help and having the games on their home turf is a big plus.

It may have looked good on paper, but the result was poor student involvement and made things a little more difficult for attendance.

[mikedenman]

This is the single worst idea I've heard concerning UC in years.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Curious as to why you are pushing this so hard. You must not have been here during the prior coliseum and gardens venues when UC played there. It was awful and took away any home court advantage.

Where the basketball program is today, they need every bit of help and having the games on their home turf is a big plus.

It may have looked good on paper, but the result was poor student involvement and made things a little more difficult for attendance.


I think the overall student involvement sucks anyway. a campus the size of Cincinnati should have the student section filled at every single game. The football stadium should be full of students. You can almost always get student tickets that aren't claimed.

[Bearcat Revival]

I get why everyone wants game on campus, but what "home court advantage" has UC had lately? So who cares where the games are played if it benefits the school financially? And this is coming from a guy who does not miss home games no matter where they are played.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I know people that won't go because they hate the seating at 5/3rd. I would watch them anywhere but it would be better on campus if the students step up.

[BeastUC]

No.Just no.

[Forsure21]

Yeah we need realize that football games will bring over twice the amount of dollars to the athletic office and even more if they expand Nippert properly. Its just a numbers game. There is no chance for a new arena on campus unless they get rid of 5/3rd and rebuild something else. Im all for a partnership between UC and US BANK.

The fact is football at every school is the money maker. Basketball just doesn't and will never bring in what football can. They need to invest STRONGLY in the football.

[jplog]

Just like Nippert the bathrooms (amount of) suck, awful views from the corners. Has a very un-college like feel, much like the generic toilet bowl stadiums of the 70's. Students sit too far away, old cronies sit too close. Flush it and start over.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Curious as to why you are pushing this so hard. You must not have been here during the prior coliseum and gardens venues when UC played there. It was awful and took away any home court advantage.

Where the basketball program is today, they need every bit of help and having the games on their home turf is a big plus.

It may have looked good on paper, but the result was poor student involvement and made things a little more difficult for attendance.

Oh, I was there. And it sucked. No argument from me on that point. It was a tomb populated by a terrrible basketball team, bad coaching, a generally unspectacular conference, and hardly any fans.

However, US Bank Arena doesn't even vaguely resemble that crappy Colliseum. They have dumped a jillion bucks into it and they are prepared to do even more.

Forget the nostalgia. Its just a better place to watch games. And since I pay to watch said games, I'd prefer they not be in the cruddy joint we have on campus. It was fun and campy when it was new. It got older quicker than any sports facility on earth. Just a terrible facility. Poorly designed. Foot traffic flow is akin to a clogged toilet. Sight lines and lighting are dreadful. Sound system blows.

I'm not saying do this forever. Short term fix. Believe me when I say there is a wisp or two of smoke surrounding exploring gutting The Shoe and starting over.

[Rock]

Going to a game at US Bank is a downer. I hope it does not happen ever!! I have attended games (SeasonTicket holder) for years and everytime I go my front row ticket turns into row 35!!

[zhauer]

I do not want this to happen. I really enjoy the on campus atmosphere of college games and I would rather stay at 5/3 than move downtown. If it would be possible to build a new arena on or close to campus than I am all for it.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Any new arena on campus is going to sit right where The Shoe is now. Which means the team would need to bug out for a couple years.

[BearcatAlum1]

^ Agreed.

I'm in favor of playing U.S. Bank while we build a new arena.

I'm against playing games at U.S. Bank while 5/3 is still capable.


We won't see any money dumped into the basketball program while Kelly is still demanding upgraded facilities (which we do need).

Any idea what it would cost for a new, state of the art basketball ONLY arena?

[Cats4Ever]

^ Agreed.

I'm in favor of playing U.S. Bank while we build a new arena.

I'm against playing games at U.S. Bank while 5/3 is still capable.


We won't see any money dumped into the basketball program while Kelly is still demanding upgraded facilities (which we do need).

Any idea what it would cost for a new, state of the art basketball ONLY arena?

found this database:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/arenas

[UcatsRick]

Both arenas have design flaws.

USBank:
Small concourse needs expanded to accommodate larger crowds before games and at halftime.
Hockey floor prevents crowds from getting closer to the floor
Off campus would limit student attendance

5/3
Concourse is too small for crowds
Steps to seating are inconvenient, you must walk up to get to any seat, instead of through a tunnel.
Seating area has wasted space in corners due to multi-purpose design
Upper arena seats have too low slope, making viewing angles less than good
Foot traffic in aisles blocks line of sight
Not enough close parking on campus

Given the flaws of both, I prefer on-campus 5/3 over off-campus USBank.
Atmosphere is good when seats are full.
Possibly removing temporary seats and building permanent seating in lower arena would make this better and increase seating.

[UcatsRick]

If you search for Fifth-Third Arena at that site, you'll find the wrong picture of the exterior of the building. I'm not sure what arena that is, but it's not 5/3. http://statsheet.com/mcb/arenas/fifth-third-arena
And the map directs you to Northgate area instead of Clifton.

[shaunsimpson]

If you search for Fifth-Third Arena at that site, you'll find the wrong picture of the exterior of the building. I'm not sure what arena that is, but it's not 5/3. http://statsheet.com/mcb/arenas/fifth-third-arena
And the map directs you to Northgate area instead of Clifton.

Looks like Nationwide Arena in Columbus.

5/3 > US Bank if you have good seats
US Bank > 5/3 if you have bad seats

[Bearcat Cafe]

Possibly removing temporary seats and building permanent seating in lower arena would make this better and increase seating.

Permanent lower level seating in 5th 3rd causes more headaches than it solves. First, the lower level seats are not the ones that are in dire need of help in terms of sight lines and comfort. Also, you no longer can use it for some of the other sporting events that it is required for. Finally, say goodbye to the Adidas It Takes 5 event, coaches camps, and the like. Only way it works there is the fact you can run 6 games at once.

[bearcatbret]

No! While I was a student at UC, we played at the coliseum. The attendance sucked and the teams sucked. Roger McClendum (spelling) was about the only highlight of the entire era. The only thing worse than playing downtown was to play at the Gardens when it was the home of the mousketeers.