Should UC be playing Miami H/H

[shaunsimpson]

Check out Josh's blog.

I for one do not think that our top football rival should be a MAC team and the Louisville and WVU games should be played up more than this. A BCS team should not be playing these teams home and home every year.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/cincybearcats/2007/09/fanning-fires-of-controversy.asp

[Bearcat_DF]

I say, let's stay focused on the Miami game.

After we win, I can assure you, the U of L and the UWV games will much more intense than this!

Miami will be lucky to sell out their puny little field (it doesn't even merit being called a stadium).

Nippert will be sold out and rocking when the Cards and Teers are in town.

Go Cats!

And no, we should not be playing Miami H-H.
I say, let's keep playing them - 3-1; 2-1 till we can hang up the sign
"You aren't our rival." It's already hanging up for Basketball. It will soon be up for football too!

[capcbk]

I am with you Shaun, but I do not see this game going away.

[London 'Cat]

I say, let's stay focused on the Miami game.

And no, we should not be playing Miami H-H.


I understand the excitement over UC football right now. I am very excited for the future of the program. But keep a few things in mind. UC has been in a BCS conference for only two years. UC has yet to win a conference championship in the Big East. UC has yet to earn a BCS bowl bid. Miami LEADS the series 59-45.

To say now that Miami is somehow beneath UC is wrong, in my opinion. UC may anihilate Miami this weekend, which I hope happens. But UC is far removed from eliminating this game from its schedule, in my opinion. UC must become a perennial top-25 team and sustain it for many years before it can assert that it does not travel to non-BCS schools. If UC beats Miami ten consecutive times, it's justified in saying it needs to reexamine the manner in which the game is scheduled. It is premature at this point to say so, in my opinion.

Keep the tradition of 112 games going. That has to mean something. Plus, if UC is/becomes as good as it thinks it is/becoming, then it will be a W every year and a chance to work out some kinks in a game situation.

[ralph1950]

The same with the Xavier basketball game. Why should a BCS school play home and home with an A-10 school? Tell XU the game will be played at 5/3rd every year or there will not be a game.

[General Woundwort]

Over 100 comments on Josh's blog post.......Brian Kelly can work a crowd better than Hulk Hogan in his prime.

This is theater, folks. BK did more for good this rivalry with that little comment than has been done in years.

At this point, I don't think this game is going anywhere. UC has 5 non-conference games to fill each year. There is still room for the Skinhawks on the schedule.

[mlb]

The same with the Xavier basketball game. Why should a BCS school play home and home with an A-10 school? Tell XU the game will be played at 5/3rd every year or there will not be a game.

Tradition trumps... especially when UC is scheduling terrible teams that don't sell out 5/3 every game. Same goes for football... assuming UC begins outdrawing the Miami game with games against D1-AA schools then I say leave the game as is.

[BearcatDAN]

I take my dislike for Miami as seriously as anyone, but this series/rivalry is not one I think deserves a snub. In football, we are tied to each other. At one time, Dayton and Xavier helped make up a football version of basketball's old mythical Miami Valley/SWO championship. With only UC and Miami left and the series one of the oldest in football (and still competitive, by far) how do you just change it? I love where UC is going and what UC is doing, but as long as a SWMS is on the schedule, then easily Miami should stay as is.........unless Miami drops to I-AA (wouldn't that just be terrible ;-)), of course!

[Bearcat Cafe]

Keep the game, but quit playing in Oxford. Play it at PBS if you want to keep the rivalry alive while creating some actual fan interest.

[tophat]

None of us likes having to play up there, but I don't see how we can justify setting terms when MU draws better at Nippert than everyone but WV and UL. When we start drawing large crowds at all our home games, no matter who we play, that might be the time to change this series, but while we're still struggling to draw, and MU outdraws most teams we play, I don't think our case is very strong, and it doesn't even make sense.

Also, the potential drawing power of this game hasn't even been realized. As our following hopefully grows, I'd bet the crowds at Nippert for this game will get larger. Yes, we only drew 21,000 last year, but that was early in the year after we came off a terrible season and MU was having one of their worst seasons: hardly an accurate guage.

Kelly tried to be respectful in his comments, but knowing how much teams like to create bulletin board material, I wish he'd not brought this up this week.

[AeroCat]

Well, if you recall, he brought the same guff concerning remaining at Higher Ground at the beginning of the season, but then quickly retracted his statements because he enjoyed the experience so much.

As much as I love BK's new in-your-face attitude towards the program (it certainly has gotten me pumped about this year, and especially this weekend!!), I think that he needs to keep a little bit more tight-lipped for most of the season. Until he's PROVEN he can win games and has PROVEN that he will bring this program to the top, he's just blowing smoke... but I fully believe he'll have proven both those things come November.


Until that point... bring on the Redskins!

[shaunsimpson]

Maybe I just don't think of it as that big of a rivalry anymore. We hype it up because the athletic department pumps it up. I don't care about Miami and the reason why I don't want to lose the game is because it is an embarasment to lose to a MAC team that went 2-10 last year. 2-10!!!!!

Should we really be playing a team that averages 15,000 a game at their stadium. One goal I think we should explore is getting all of UC's games on TV. There is no way a network is going to pick up a game against a mediocre MAC team. I know we need to carry our side of attendence as well, but come on.

What is the tradition here? A bell that was stolen a long time ago? I don't see the interest as much in the past. I see more talk about Big East teams.

To enter into a contract there has to be a win for the University and the football team. IF they want to continue to play this series they need to be receiving a 2H-1A. We can continue to go to their HS stadium each year and play them or we can get another team to come in on a year by year basis.

I don't think it will go away anytime soon, but the only reason why this game is interesting is because I can drive to the game and get tickets easily.

[shaunsimpson]

Also, about Miami:

Under the NCAA rules, all DI-A schools must average 15,000 in home game attendance once in a rolling two-year period. There are 15 schools on the NCAA minimum attendance radar and six from the MAC alone.

They are safe for two years since last year
Miami (Ohio) was 110 out of 119 scholls with 5 games totaling 76,219 fans at 15,244 a game. Their total 35,000 less than what Ohio Stadium had against Akron last week.

Is our attendence great: no?
Is losing the Miami game a consequence of trying to increase the team's national presence? Yes, IMO.

[Bearcat_DF]

The minimum attendance issue is a paper tiger when you look at the penalty.

First punishment is a 10-year probation period.

An infraction during the probation period results in not being eligible for a single post-season / bowl.

A second infraction during the probation period results in a ban from post-season / bowls until the team demonstrates it can make the attendance requirement.

Finally, a team can count paid attendance rather than actual attendance, so if a team is in jeopardy of becoming ineligible for a bowl, a corporation or wealthy booster can buy a block of tickets and boost the avg. attendance.

http://www.macreportonline.com/15k_rule.html

The biggest question I have is --- Why????

Go Cats!
DF

[capcbk]

I remember four years ago when Dantonio accepted the Head Coaching position. Immediately after his acceptance they had him introduced at a basketball game halftime and he addressed the crowd.

His quick speech, intended to be Tressel-esque I guess, closed with "we are going to beat Miami". Well, I remember it certainly didn't get me going...or others that were sitting nearby!

I remember thinking, shouldn't we have bigger aspirations than beating Miami??? And I am an old school kind of guy!

I believe it is important to keep the Miami relationship in some form...but let's remember that we are in a different place now. Wouldn't it be great if over time that the WVU or the Pitt or the Ville game becomes THE game for the Conference Championship on a semi-regular basis. Perhaps Miami becomes a every other year at a neutral site kind of relationship.

[Oldtimer_UC_fan]

I dont' have a problem playing teams like that in basketball, but I do in football. There are just a few more basketball games.

Even the big powerhouse programs have teams a lot worse than Miami on their schedule. It's one game...and, tradition does have meaning. I'd much rather have Miami on our schedule than, say....Appalachian State...upset of Michigan not withstanding.

[CatsClaw]

I understand the excitement over UC football right now. I am very excited for the future of the program. But keep a few things in mind. UC has been in a BCS conference for only two years. UC has yet to win a conference championship in the Big East. UC has yet to earn a BCS bowl bid. Miami LEADS the series 59-45.

To say now that Miami is somehow beneath UC is wrong, in my opinion. UC may anihilate Miami this weekend, which I hope happens. But UC is far removed from eliminating this game from its schedule, in my opinion. UC must become a perennial top-25 team and sustain it for many years before it can assert that it does not travel to non-BCS schools. If UC beats Miami ten consecutive times, it's justified in saying it needs to reexamine the manner in which the game is scheduled. It is premature at this point to say so, in my opinion.

Keep the tradition of 112 games going. That has to mean something. Plus, if UC is/becomes as good as it thinks it is/becoming, then it will be a W every year and a chance to work out some kinks in a game situation.


There's nothing that's written in the contract that says that UC has to beat Miami a bunch of times to cancel the game. If UC wants to cancel, then just cancel. Kelly is focusing on getting UC to the next level. And that means scheduling more BCS programs and developing rivalries with them. Having rivalry games with Indiana and Kentucky would draw in far more fans and have fare more appeal then Miami-OH.

[CatsClaw]

None of us likes having to play up there, but I don't see how we can justify setting terms when MU draws better at Nippert than everyone but WV and UL. When we start drawing large crowds at all our home games, no matter who we play, that might be the time to change this series, but while we're still struggling to draw, and MU outdraws most teams we play, I don't think our case is very strong, and it doesn't even make sense.


And Kentucky and Indiana drew more for their games at Nippert then Miami did. UC doesn't have to make a case for anything, it's their decision to make.

[tophat]

And Kentucky and Indiana drew more for their games at Nippert then Miami did. UC doesn't have to make a case for anything, it's their decision to make.

I'm referring to teams WHO WILL PLAY US. It hardly serves any point to refer to teams we can't get on our schedule, especially not in a long term 1 to 1 series. The point is, it does benefit us to continue this series, as is, for attendance purposes.

[Bruce Monnin]

Heck, I went to school in the late 80's when the football team wasn't very good. I didn't think of the Miami game as a rivalry game back then. It was probably about halfway down the list of games that were interesting to me.

This year I would rank the Oregon State, Louisville, West Virginia, South Florida, Rutgers and Pittsburgh games higher.

I don't mind playing them. It is close by and if we are good it should be a nice non-conference W. Just don't bother trying to pump it up as a rivalry.

[jkwuc89]

In my opinion, there has to be some level of hatred between two teams for a real rivalry to exist. There should be no such thing as a "friendly rivalry". I just don't feel much of this "hatred" between Miami and UC. To be honest, if the UC/Miami series were dropped, I just don't see much noise being made about it.

[Bearcat Cafe]

I wonder how many SEC teams have their "biggest" rivalry game versus a Sunbelt Conference team? Any Big 10 teams getting up for rivalry week versus C-USA squads? How about PAC 10 teams getting psyched up for their traditional home and home battle against a team from the Mountain West?

No? Well no Big East team should be locked into doing the same with a MAC school either. Louisville, West Virginia, Rutgers and South Florida are rivals. Miami is just a convenient schedule filler. I could care less if we keep playing them or not. Just no way we have to go play in their crappy stadium every other year.

[richard k.]

In my opinion, there has to be some level of hatred between two teams for a real rivalry to exist. There should be no such thing as a "friendly rivalry". I just don't feel much of this "hatred" between Miami and UC. To be honest, if the UC/Miami series were dropped, I just don't see much noise being made about it.

You mean like Michigan/OSU or UK/UofL? ;) I'm not sure that you need to stop the Miami/UC series, but if, as is the case, UC is moving its program to another level, the scheduling needs to be adjusted. Something along the lines of 2 or 3 to 1; or 2 at Nippert, 1 in Oxford and 1 at PBS. There are a variety of things that can be done, but I agree that a BCS team, especially one that is trying to move up the pecking order into top 25 or so status, should not be scheduling a non-BCS school on a permanent 1-1 for basis.

[jplog]

I don't have a problem with the Miami series either as long as Miami stays as one of the top teams in the MAC. If their recent slide continues I don't see it as much of a rivalry in the future. I also don't see a problem with UC asking to move the game to PBS and if that's not possible then going to a 2 for 1 series in UC's favor.

[Deaf_Bearcat]

I can't agree with UC to stop playing against Miami since this is the rich 112-year rivalry tradition, but I can agree with a neutral site for both teams to play the football game in future. If everything worked out very well with the UC-MU basketball at the neutral site, then it should not be a problem with this.

[Bearcat Cafe]

jplog,

I agree. In the last 2 years Miami dropped from around the top of the MAC to only being about the 4th best MAC program IN OHIO.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Tradition doesn't mean much if the the fans don't look at this game as being a big deal.

[Oldtimer_UC_fan]

Tradition doesn't mean much if the the fans don't look at this game as being a big deal.

Apparently they don't think ANY game is a big deal.

[richard k.]

Kelly isn't questioming whether the game should be played - but the scheduling. If you moved it to a 2 for 1, which any upper level BCS team (to which level UC aspires) would require to play a non-BCS team - Miami's deal with Vandy, etc. notwithstanding (I would hardly call Vandy an upper level BCS team). Continuing "the oldest rivalry west of the Alleghenies" is a big deal, just needs to be scheduled properly.

[Lobot]

Keep the game, but quit playing in Oxford. Play it at PBS if you want to keep the rivalry alive while creating some actual fan interest.

As much as this sounds like it makes sense, we need to figure out how to fill our own stadium first with this game before we talk about moving it to PBS.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Apparently they don't think ANY game is a big deal.

Nothing says "Big Deal" like going on the road for the 9th biggest game on our schedule against the 4th best MAC team in the state of Ohio.

[hot pocket]

As much as this sounds like it makes sense, we need to figure out how to fill our own stadium first with this game before we talk about moving it to PBS.

I agree. We are acting a bit pretentious with all of this "we're too good for Miami now" talk. I think we are heading in the right direction, and I love how BK is taking this program very personally, but until we sellout a few games in a row, let alone seasons, I don't think this is an option. And whats wrong with going to Miami, its not more than an hour from UC, and its closer to Columbus, so what few Bearcat fans may be in Columbus may choose to go to the Miami game as a way to see the Cats closer to home. Who says BCS teams can't play in-state road games?

[shaunsimpson]

I don't think we are too good for Miami, but I don't think it is in best interest of the team/school to play them home and home every year.

[jkwuc89]

Continuing to play Miami home and home is a matter of economics. Assuming that Coach Kelly can continue build up the fan base, it will become important to schedule as many home games as possible. The NCAA allows teams to play 12 games. UC should try to get seven home games out of the 12. Of the 12 games, seven are in the Big East. Every other year, UC will end up playing four of these on the road. That leaves five games to schedule at least three home games. If Miami continues to be a home and home endeavor, then that leaves only four games every other year to schedule three home games.

In order to guarantee revenue from the Miami game every season, I think UC should seriously consider moving this game to Paul Brown Stadium. Let Miami have one half and let UC have the other. Getting 20 to 30K fans at PBS every year and the revenue that generates is better than getting revenue from the game every other year.

PBS is a first class facility and a great place to watch a football game. With a little clever marketing and some timely scheduling, they could make sure this game occurs on the same weekend as the WEBN fireworks or the same weekend as Octoberfest.

[Bearcat_DF]

Keith,

Great ideas regarding linking it to Labor Day or Octoberfest.

The most similar situation I can think of is Colorado (Big 12) v. Colorado St. (MWC). This year they played the Sat of Labor Day at Invesco Field (New Mile High). They call it the Rocky Mountain Showdown. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_Showdown

It wasn't considered a rivalry until recently - CSU has drastically improved.

The game has not always been an annual event. They have played every year since 1995. Of those 13 games, only 1 has been in Fort Collins (home game for CSU). 3 have been in Boulder (CU home game). The other 9 in Denver.

The more I think of it, the more sense it makes to set up a game like this with OSU. We could play 1 in Columbus, 1 in PBS, and 1 in Cleveland (OSU fans would fill it).

Still, an opening annual game with Miami at PBS on Labor Day would be a lot better than home and home.

Go Cats!
DF

[shaunsimpson]

I don't think he is saying that. He is saying that the Big East schedule and Oregon St are bigger games.

[Oldtimer_UC_fan]

Nothing says "Big Deal" like going on the road for the 9th biggest game on our schedule against the 4th best MAC team in the state of Ohio.

So you base the entire scheduling process on only one season? The Big Ten doesn't seem to have reservations about scheduling Miami. Isn't it a little early to classify teams as "4th best"?

[JerseySean]

Nothing says "Big Deal" like going on the road for the 9th biggest game on our schedule against the 4th best MAC team in the state of Ohio.

I love the quote and agree. Notice he put "Bid Deal" in quotes. Nice piece of sarcasm, I say...

With that in mind, EVERY game is a big deal, really. Can't look past anyone on the schedule, including Oxford Country Day. I hardly think people on this forum are the reason for low football attendance. It appears that most on Bearcat News have been fired up by what might amount to the best season in recent memory. I, for one, have come in from NJ for the Oregon St. game, will go to Rutgers, and will return for Homecoming. My guess is that a number of you are going to more games this year than in past years, too. At least I hope so... GO CATS!

Oh, yeah... I also can't wait for Basketball season!!!

[jbod403]

Football talk has taken over a Basketball thread. I think that says alot about the excitement over the Football program. Not sure that has ever happened before. That said, can this be moved to the Football forum?

[Bearcat Cafe]

So you base the entire scheduling process on only one season? The Big Ten doesn't seem to have reservations about scheduling Miami. Isn't it a little early to classify teams as "4th best"?


Look at the MAC programs in Ohio. Look at facilities. Look at recruiting. Look at support. Now tell me, where does Miami rank in Ohio in MAC football? If you come up with any answer that is not 4th or 5th you are either not being objective or you are not paying attention. Their program has slipped considerably since Hoeppner left. Its way behind what Solich is doing at Ohio. Its way behind Akron. Its behind B.G.. A strong argument can be made that friggin' Kent State has passed them by. With the problems in Toledo's program, not sure where they fit in yet.

Mind you this is just Ohio. Mix in the rest of the MAC and they fall farther into the abyss.

[BearcatDrew]

Football talk has taken over a Basketball thread. I think that says alot about the excitement over the Football program. Not sure that has ever happened before. That said, can this be moved to the Football forum?

no...............