Broken ground broke bank

[MikeInClifton]

Broken ground broke bank (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070916/NEWS01/709160448/1077/COL02)

Faced with accumulated deficits of about $155 million and cutting costs all around campus, UC has decided not to construct more buildings or contribute cash to neighborhood development projects until it figures a way out of its fiscal woes.
- - snip - -
Another program facing a payback plan is athletics, which lost about $5.7 million last year and is budgeted to lose about $2.2 million for the fiscal year that started July 1. It has overspent by at least $22 million and is responsible for contributing that much back to the overall university budget.

The department hopes to break even by 2010, Athletic Director Mike Thomas said. He hopes to increase private giving and attendance at football and men's basketball games enough to fill the gap.

"If we can't get it done on the revenue side, we're going to have to look at expenses," Thomas said. "We have to live within our means but at the same time give them (coaches) the resources they need to compete at the highest level."

One potential source of new revenue is private giving. UC has increased gifts to the UCATS booster club to $5.2 million this year from about $4 million last year, Thomas said.

The department also hopes to increase ticket sales for football and men's basketball. If UC were to consistently sell out Nippert Stadium and Fifth Third Arena, it could add nearly $3 million to annual revenue, Thomas said. While it won't get there right away, it has budgeted increased ticket revenue of $700,000 this year.

Overall, the men's basketball program earned about $1 million for the university in the just-completed fiscal year while the football program lost about $1 million.

[Cats4Ever]

Interesting timing of the article - done just after the BOT broadcasted Zimpher's pay raise and bonus and after reducing staff levels.

Sounds like someone at the Enquirer has a slight grudge against Dr. Zimpher -

I hope the football attendance increase helps - but it seems like pre-season the tickets were reduced a little in price, making an increase in attendance come out as a wash in increased revenue. Not sure how the basketball ticket sales will do.

I'm all for a capital fund campaign - to help out with the investment on campus. If you haven't been to campus in a while - it is a wonderful, exciting, beautiful place to go. Worth every penny in my book.

[bearcated]

Considering that Nancy-pants just got a fat raise, and she was instrumental in paying a guy millions to NOT coach, I think she is part of the problem, not the solution. This is a symptom of a bigger crime of runaway spending and tuition costs at almost all colleges, not just UC.

[Bearcat Cafe]

The runaway spending took place under Joe Steger's watch. Check the timeline. A big part of her job is to figure out how to pay for that beautiful new campus he bought us.

[Catmandu]

The runaway spending took place under Joe Steger's watch. Check the timeline. A big part of her job is to figure out how to pay for that beautiful new campus he bought us.

This is not true... you are correct in that steger started the pan for varisty village, and all the great stuff we had today. His plan didn't include tearing apart the athletics department.

This is also funny that finally someone is admitting attendance affects the botton line.... for a few years now everyone has been saying that "Sports" or and "sports attendance" is too small a portion of the budget etc etc.

It's funny how maybe, just maybe if they had listened to the fans when it all went down, even some of the suggested after Huggins was gone, they might have gotten some fans back earlier....

for the record, my wife and I were at the game last night cheering on the bearcats.



fire Nancy

[Bearcat Cafe]

Read the whole article. Athletics is not the focus....its the capital spending. Wait - are you the guy who always brought every discussion back to Bob Huggins being fired? If so, never mind.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Nancy Z is incompetent at lots of things. Firing coaches in August was just one of them.

[SLMadiCat]

Nancy Z is incompetent at lots of things. Firing coaches in August was just one of them.

You are right, it should have happened in June, following his DUI.

[jkwuc89]

Would anyone like some cheese with their whine? Seriously, UC athletics is on the upswing. The football team is in the top 25. UC just set a new attendance record at Nippert Stadium. Basketball recruiting is going well and the team should be much improved over last season. There are just too many positive things going on to continue fussing about something that happened over two years ago.

[bearcated]

Would anyone like some cheese with their whine? Seriously, UC athletics is on the upswing. The football team is in the top 25. UC just set a new attendance record at Nippert Stadium. Basketball recruiting is going well and the team should be much improved over last season. There are just too many positive things going on to continue fussing about something that happened over two years ago.

Sorry. It's not a 2 years ago problem. It's a NOW problem. Multi-million dollar budget short falls across the board are a now problem. I don't care that she fired Huggs. Huggs who? He's history. I care that we get in this fix now because people such as Nancy-pants toss millions away to just to get rid of a guy they don't like. It's an example of how the school gets in such a mess. That's real money from real UCATS, NOT an abstraction.

[Bearcat Cafe]

cated, relax. Deep breaths. No offense meant, but you are looking at this through a straw.

The budget shortfall is a result of mega bucks in new campus bought over the last 10 years. That money was slated to be spent long before anyone in Cincinnati had ever heard of Nancy. Private university donations are way up. Athletic donations are up. The shortfall in the AD dept has to do more with dramatic increases in spending to try to stay up with our Big East bretheren than it does with any buy-out (which was largely covered by private checks, but I digress). Look at the difference in total budget from our last year in C-USA to now. Dramatic increase. The real estate in the Big East zip code is a heck of lot more expensive than it was in the old C-USA neighborhood. Location, location, location.

Life as a bearcat is pretty good right now and the prospects for the future look brighter than ever.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

You are right, it should have happened in June, following his DUI.

If a change were to have been made, that was the time.

Then again, UC knew about Phil Cox (BOT Chair) and his DUI then but did nothing about it.

I think that's why.

[Irishbearcat]

Can we say fire Nancy. I never got a chance to get my 'licks in'. :)

[Catmandu]

cated, relax. Deep breaths. No offense meant, but you are looking at this through a straw.

The budget shortfall is a result of mega bucks in new campus bought over the last 10 years. That money was slated to be spent long before anyone in Cincinnati had ever heard of Nancy. Private university donations are way up. Athletic donations are up. The shortfall in the AD dept has to do more with dramatic increases in spending to try to stay up with our Big East bretheren than it does with any buy-out (which was largely covered by private checks, but I digress). Look at the difference in total budget from our last year in C-USA to now. Dramatic increase. The real estate in the Big East zip code is a heck of lot more expensive than it was in the old C-USA neighborhood. Location, location, location.

Life as a bearcat is pretty good right now and the prospects for the future look brighter than ever.

Respectfully, you are wrong, there was a plan to pay for all of this that was dumped for personal vendeta's, at the time eveyone said, "Stop Whining", now that everything is happening the way the "whiners" were saying, IE we would lose tons of $$$ and not be able to pay for our jump to the league" we are whining again. Funny, if only people would have listened then, and if only people would listen now.... we wouldn't be in this situation. But stick your heads back in the sand like before maybe it will make this situation that was forcast by many on here go away... just like last time you all stuck you head in the sand....and ignored it, or called people whiners.....

Also, not only do we spend more when in the Big East we GET more by joining the Big East, the cost problem isn't the additional Big East costs.... to say that private donations and athletics donations are up is misleading, compared to what?

[mlb]

Just because money is up right now does not mean that the firing of a former coach didn't hurt the amount of donations. Going to the Big East was supposed to make the donations double in 2 years, last I checked 2 years after Huggins was run out the donations are marginally up compared to the C-USA years.

[jkwuc89]

If folks want to continue to focus on negative stuff, that is certainly their prerogative. Personally, I think that this is a waste of energy especially with the football team doing so well.

Answer me this, does talking about this negative stuff make you feel better or worse?

[Catmandu]

If folks want to continue to focus on negative stuff, that is certainly their prerogative. Personally, I think that this is a waste of energy especially with the football team doing so well.

Answer me this, does talking about this negative stuff make you feel better or worse?


Frankly it makes me feel better.
Why, because I feel that if we "Stick our head in the Sand" it won't fix anything. Look what the continued ignoring the problem has gotten us, a "Broken Bank" if we continue to "ignore" this problem and "not talk about it" how will that improve it? You can't ignore the problem.

You can call me negative or whatever, I still cheer for the players and the school, but I don't have to support the position this admin has put the school in.

I feel by NOT talking about it I would be doing more of a diservice than talking about it.

just a while back many were saying attendance doesn't make a difference, or not going to the games doesn't make a difference, yet now I see in some of Thomas's letter he's relying on increased tickets sales etc... Guess it does matter. Maybe someone should have "talked" about this earlier... doh... some of us were.

[SLMadiCat]

just a while back many were saying attendance doesn't make a difference, or not going to the games doesn't make a difference, yet now I see in some of Thomas's letter he's relying on increased tickets sales etc... Guess it does matter. Maybe someone should have "talked" about this earlier... doh... some of us were.

Who were saying attendence doesn't make a difference. Hopefully everyone understands thats not the case. They may have said not attending games hurts UC rather than helps.

Also, "talking" about it on a message board which includes the small, small majority of UC fans and donors, does not accomplish anything. What have you actually done to help the cause?

ps - I'm not saying you haven't done anything, but talking about it on message boards doesn't make a difference.

[Catmandu]

Who were saying attendence doesn't make a difference. Hopefully everyone understands thats not the case. They may have said not attending games hurts UC rather than helps.

Also, "talking" about it on a message board which includes the small, small majority of UC fans and donors, does not accomplish anything. What have you actually done to help the cause?

ps - I'm not saying you haven't done anything, but talking about it on message boards doesn't make a difference.

I've actaully done a ton, but people here don't want it all listed again :)
I'll PM you if your interested.

That said the number one thing is awareness, and always challenging, which gets me in trouble here sometimes, but I won't let someone just say something because it's PC or sounds good, I challenge these comments.

[SLMadiCat]

I've actaully done a ton, but people here don't want it all listed again :)
I'll PM you if your interested.

That said the number one thing is awareness, and always challenging, which gets me in trouble here sometimes, but I won't let someone just say something because it's PC or sounds good, I challenge these comments.

I trust you. My point was that message boards are not the way to get things done.

[jkwuc89]

1. Nancy Zimpher is the President of the University of Cincinnati and this is not going to change anytime soon, regardless of what we think of her. Someone must think she is doing a decent job because she recently got a raise. And she is now representing UC Athletics at the NCAA level.
2. The Ohio state government has made drastic cuts in the amount of money it gives to the state colleges. I believe this more than anything else has hurt UC's financial position. This is often cited as one of the primary reasons why tuitions at state colleges is skyrocketing.
3. Coach Huggins' buyout to us commoners looks large but I suspect that its impact on the overall athletics budget is not near as large as some believe. Plus, the dramatic increase in football ticket revenue this season is going to provide a very welcome windfall for the athletics department.
4. Excitement in UC football is at an all time high right now and credit for this must be given not only to Coach Kelly and his team but also the administration that hired Coach Kelly. It is quite clear that the efforts put in by the athletics department is producing good results.

[Catmandu]

1. Someone must think she is doing a decent job because she recently got a raise.
Wyler and Cox? Yeah, I trust them....


Excitement in UC football is at an all time high right now and credit for this must be given not only to Coach Kelly and his team but also the administration that hired Coach Kelly.

Kelly gets credit for winning, he's doing great, BUT, we seem to forget that before him this Administration alienated the first coach they chose and Kelly was a lucky get, we had a coach that was doing fine, but left ofr another school (I can't say Kelly won't do the same thing) Also, we are able to get players now due to getting into the Big East which had nothing to do with this administration so they don't get any credit, if anything they are the reason it's taking so long.


It is quite clear that the efforts put in by the athletics department is producing good results.

If this were ture they wouldn't be worried about the bank and this topic would have never been started.

but again, we can stick our head in the sand and act like everything is fine.....

[jkwuc89]

Alienated the prior football coach? How did they do this? Cite specific evidence that supports this claim. What I saw is this. A Big 10 school where Coach Dantonio spent significant time as an assistant came calling and Coach Dantonio, due to his affection for that school and the area, listened and ultimately accepted the job as head coach. It was reported several times that money was not an issue. Michigan State held a special place in Coach Dantonio's heart and that more than anything else became the deciding factor. In other words and to put it simply, Coach Dantonio left because he wanted to coach at Michigan State, not because he wanted to leave UC.

I believe UC is better off for this change. We now have a coach with a dynamic personality whose willing to run an exciting brand of winning football that people want to watch. Mike Thomas made an excellent choice when he hired Coach Kelly and he should be commended for it.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Alienated Dantonio? Thats just silly. Honestly. What the H-E double hockey sticks are you talking about?

I guess some folks hate the fact that the Athletics Department as a whole is in much better shape than it has ever been.

[mlb]

Dantonio was never alienated, he left because one of his two "dream" schools came calling (the other being Ohio State). Although I was as mad as anybody when he left after talking about retiring from UC, I can't be unhappy with his replacement.

When BK leaves (I fully expect him to, not many guys are BH types that build the program then stay) I fully expect them to find another similar up and coming coach that can keep the train on the tracks.

[tophat]

Respectfully, you are wrong, there was a plan to pay for all of this that was dumped for personal vendeta's, at the time eveyone said, "Stop Whining", now that everything is happening the way the "whiners" were saying, IE we would lose tons of $$$ and not be able to pay for our jump to the league" we are whining again. Funny, if only people would have listened then, and if only people would listen now.... we wouldn't be in this situation. But stick your heads back in the sand like before maybe it will make this situation that was forcast by many on here go away... just like last time you all stuck you head in the sand....and ignored it, or called people whiners.....

Also, not only do we spend more when in the Big East we GET more by joining the Big East, the cost problem isn't the additional Big East costs.... to say that private donations and athletics donations are up is misleading, compared to what?

Actually, the whinners turned out to be wrong about the most important things. They kept ranting about how NZ was out to destroy big time athletics at UC. When she hired M Thomas they kept talking about him as a worthless stooge who was going to wreck our athletic dept.

All Thomas and NZ have done is bring in a basketball coach who's recruiting as well as ever (contrary to what the whinners predicted) and the best football coach in the modern era of UC fb. All Thomas has done is get Nippert regularly sold out for the first time in history by getting the right coach and by marketing better than ever before. If that's destroying big time athletics here, then I'm all for it. Any whinners out there care to admit you were flat out wrong?

I don't think anyone here knows enough about the financial details of the athletic dept to know the impact of firing Huggs. It was obviously going to have a negative impact for awhile -- how much I don't claim to know. But if as a result we can have a high level bb program without the thuggish, negative image that hurt the university, I think it will have been worth it in the long run.

[Bearcat Cafe]

She's still here and is not going anywhere for a long time. The academic emphasis certianly didn't cause the seven plagues as her detractors hoped/predicted. Hiring Mike Thomas looks like a master stroke - his 3 coaching hires and the marketing strategy look brilliant. Life aint' bad and its killing the ever dwindling crowd who swore they'd never attend a UC event or spend a dime on UC as long as she was here. Now they are attending but probably telling anyone who will listen its only because they got free tickets or something. ;)

[Cats4Ever]

All Thomas and NZ have done is bring in a basketball coach who's recruiting as well as ever (contrary to what the whinners predicted) and the best football coach in the modern era of UC fb.

Love the enthusiasm, but please temper the praise.

Coaches are measured on wins and graduating the kids.

Kelly has the wins, Cronin is still a work in progress.

If you research President's salaries, even a Joe Schmoe at Podunk U makes at least $400K per year.

I do have an issue where her gal pal Rimai (sp) makes more money than the Provost who resigned in the medical department - and the Med department is ~1/2 the UC budget. Rimai is her hatchet man, and the provost has been here more years than Nancy and her staff.

I hate to see quality people leave at UC - we need every one we can get or have in place already.

[tophat]

Love the enthusiasm, but please temper the praise.



Temper the praise? I restricted my statements to facts. Cats, if you find them factually wrong, please specify -- I'll be happy to respond.

[Cats4Ever]

Nice one - I noticed you chose your words very carefully.

No need for a discussion - it could easily turn into a long winded debate.

Cats 4 Ever!!!!!!!!

[catswin]

Football season tickets went up about $50 per seat this year for one less game. Other than the discount area under the scoreboard there was not a seat in the house that was cheaper for the year. Add in the fact that they took away the 2 for 1 deals and they have made it more expensive to go to games. With the success on the field this year I would expect pricing to go up next year because in comparison to the rest of the Big East UC football is pretty cheap.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Temper the praise? I restricted my statements to facts. Cats, if you find them factually wrong, please specify -- I'll be happy to respond.

There are no titles given for Best Recruiting.

UC basketball is 11-19 under new management.

I'd expect a lot better.

[tophat]

There are no titles given for Best Recruiting.

UC basketball is 11-19 under new management.

I'd expect a lot better.

Did you expect better last year, after he inherited a program in April with virtually no players? From now on we ALL expect alot better.

[Catmandu]

She's still here and is not going anywhere for a long time. The academic emphasis certianly didn't cause the seven plagues as her detractors hoped/predicted. Hiring Mike Thomas looks like a master stroke - his 3 coaching hires and the marketing strategy look brilliant. Life aint' bad and its killing the ever dwindling crowd who swore they'd never attend a UC event or spend a dime on UC as long as she was here. Now they are attending but probably telling anyone who will listen its only because they got free tickets or something. ;)


I like how everyone treats
Hiring a new AD
Hiring a new FB coach
as proactive measures....
If you think Dantonio was "happy" here or Goin Was "Happy" here... I have abridge to sell you....
whatever...
these were reactive, because some good people left.

I haven't seen anything done proactively... just reactively...
They benefitted from the move to the Big East that they weren't a part of.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Sorry to bum you out but she reacted 100% dead on in those hires. Proactive or reactive, her decisions with regards to the athletic department are playing out quite nicely. She is also reacting to Steger's expenditures - which was the original point of this thread before athletics got interjected.

Bet you swore you'd never attend an event again. How's that working out?

[Catmandu]

Sorry to bum you out but she reacted 100% dead on in those hires. Proactive or reactive, her decisions with regards to the athletic department are playing out quite nicely. She is also reacting to Steger's expenditures - which was the original point of this thread before athletics got interjected.

Bet you swore you'd never attend an event again. How's that working out?

I never swore I would never attend an event again. But that sounded good.

2ndly(I think that's my own new word), I thought you said Zimpher doesn't make athletic decisions ;)

No, she is not reacting to Stegers expenditures, she is reacting to the shortfall her decisions have caused. Had Steger been here, odds are we would have not taken the hit in the Athletic Budget, or lost Goin prior to Varisty Village being done. Nor spent $3mill for someone to not work, etc etc etc

Athletics were NOT "interjected" into this conversation on an Athletics focused webiste, the Athletics Department IS part of the university budget and is part of the cause of the $ loss. So it is right on topic, again but it sounded good.

[nachoman91]

If folks want to continue to focus on negative stuff, that is certainly their prerogative. Personally, I think that this is a waste of energy especially with the football team doing so well.

Answer me this, does talking about this negative stuff make you feel better or worse?

Hillary...is that you? Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it in the future.

[Bearcat Cafe]

I never swore I would never attend an event again.

Never is a long time. I can't take credit for this but thanks to J.W. for forwarding this and for pointing me to the world of non-scout & rivals boards.

Appearently you or someone who also likes that Bob Seger song enough to make a screen name out of it posted memorable statements on other boards. Must be two of you. Word is similar statements on this board too. Aint' server storage kewl. :D

http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=59033
You can call me out for how I'm hurting players etc... But i think these players are pretty grown up and know that they aren't attacking the players. They know they are making a statement not against the team but against the administration.

there are no other ways to protest, they ignore emails, phone calls, won't notice the "drop in business"

I will still cheer for the players and watch them on TV. but I won't attend until the adminstration is gone.


http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=52121
You don't seem to understand.. if she thinks the Football team can make up for Huggins loss... then buying football tickets will only support her feelings... IF I buy Football tickets I support Zimpher.... get it?

I'll go to Basketball games. I will not attend any other sports or events at UC unless it invloves Huggins... get it? Is that too difficult to figure out?

I guess technically you never "swore" not to attend so I take it back. ;)

PS: just having a little fun.

[jkwuc89]

My mother said this to me when I was growing up. There are some people in this world who aren't happy unless they are complaining about something. It's those same folks who are quick to turn a positive into a negative.

[Catmandu]

first,

Who's J.W.?

The first tickets I've paid for in the 20+ events I've attended, were the $5 tickets I bought for the Marshall game and the Oregon State game, and frankly I spent the money more to be with my friends and to take my wife out than go to the game. I never said I stopped being a fan of the Bearcats.

However, my season tickets, and my portion of our Silver Bearcat membership, as well as the 10(or 11) years in a row I attended the conference tournament have all stopped.

As a matter of fact, this year, the 5-8 people that I had always attended the tournaments with are all planning on going to Vegas instead.

As far as "turning a positive into a Negative... What?"

Is this positive?

"Thomas told The Enquirer earlier this month that the athletic department lost $5.7 million last year and is budgeted to lose about $2.2 million for the year that began July 1.

He said the department hopes to break even by 2010."


Nice..... I don't see anything but RED ( I didn't want to say negative)

we weren't talking about the play of the team, which is positive, we were talking about the financial mess that the athletics department is in.

I really don't remember what sort of shap we were in prior to the Zimpher mess.... But losing 5.7 mil in one year...???? I wonder why we lost so much?

[Catmandu]

My mother said this to me when I was growing up. There are some people in this world who aren't happy unless they are complaining about something. It's those same folks who are quick to turn a positive into a negative.

Keith.... You "grew-up" ?

When did that happen? ;)

[Catmandu]

There are no titles given for Best Recruiting.

UC basketball is 11-19 under new management.

I'd expect a lot better.


By the way, How many of the players Kelly recruited are doing the winning now? That's how we should measure Kelly's recruiting. Isn't he still playing with all of Dantonio's Players?
(I really don't know the answer to this question which is why I ask)

[Bearcat Cafe]

I "swear" we need a 12 step program for the burgeoing ranks of folks that are back on the UC bandwagon after kicking and screaming till their demands were met. Just admit you are a fan and you have a great time at games and that this is a great program to be a part of. Its ok. Glad to have you back despite the fact that the administration is still here.

[Catmandu]

I "swear" we need a 12 step program for the burgeoing ranks of folks that are back on the UC bandwagon after kicking and screaming till their demands were met. Just admit you are a fan and you have a great time at games and that this is a great program to be a part of. Its ok. Glad to have you back despite the fact that the administration is still here.

I never sais I wasn't a bearcat fan, so
"Hi, My name is Catmandu, and I'm a ... 'gulp'..... Bearcatfan!"

Am I through the first step?
I don't know any of the other steps... maybe you can help me!

My wife and I consider our anniversary the night of October 31st, it was the first time she kissed me in public(It's tough to admit you like someone as ugly as me) at the UC Homecoming game in Nippert Stadium in 1986. I remember going to my first game at Shoemaker (Although I had attended games at the Coliseum) when the decided to start this little guard named Nicky.

I have never stopped being a Bearcat Fan, go back to all the posts and ask "J.W." to look too.

I cheer for them loudly, etc.

Although I have a pretty large collection of Bearcat stuff... I Still don't have a piece with the "Z paw" on it. ;)

[CincyBeerCo]

Football season tickets went up about $50 per seat this year for one less game. Other than the discount area under the scoreboard there was not a seat in the house that was cheaper for the year. Add in the fact that they took away the 2 for 1 deals and they have made it more expensive to go to games. With the success on the field this year I would expect pricing to go up next year because in comparison to the rest of the Big East UC football is pretty cheap.

FYI, the $50 increase is the "Bowl Deposit" that was included with every season ticket.