Big East Bowl Question

[Thegreatone]

I want to know the possible bowl games we could go to this year. Like what does the 1st/2nd/3rd/4th place finishers go? I believe the Orange Bow, Sun Bowl, and Gator bowls right? I am not sure so if anyone can clear this up that would be great.

[shaunsimpson]

Correct me if I am wrong on this.

***If bowl elgible then Notre Dame can be selected for any bowl game that the Big East is tied to. A positive is that the Big East is no longer the only ones included in this. Should the Irish not qualify for a BCS Bowl, they will be eligible to play in the AT&T Cotton Bowl Classic, the Toyota Gator Bowl, the Vitalis Sun Bowl and the Houston Bowl each one time for the next four seasons.

***In the past Navy has received a bowl bid for the Car Care Bowl if bowl elgible.

PapaJohn's.com Bowl
Dec. 22 / 1 p.m. Birmingham, Ala. ESPN2
Tie-ins: Big East (or MAC) vs. C-USA

Meineke Car Care Bowl
Dec. 29 / 1 p.m. Charlotte, N.C. ESPN

Sun Bowl
Dec. 31 / 2 p.m. El Paso, Texas CBS
Tie-ins: Big 12/Big East/Notre Dame vs. Pac-10 No. 3

Gator Bowl
Jan. 1 / 1 p.m. Jacksonville, Fla. CBS
Tie-ins: ACC No. 3 vs. Big 12/Big East/Notre Dame

International Bowl
Jan. 5 / 12 p.m. Toronto, Canada ESPN2
Tie-ins: Big East/Notre Dame vs. MAC No. 4 or 5

[richard k.]

If Notre Dame gets to be entitled to take any bowl spot that would otherwise go to a BEast team they should play "in the conference." Otherwise let them take only bowl slots that are available to independents. Once again I ask - if they are not going to play football in conference, what is it that makes Notre Dame an attractive member of the BEast?

As an aside, for the oldtimers - anyone remember a time when there was even close to this much excitement over the football program?

[shaunsimpson]

Can ND in basketball and baseball make it worth it? I know why they don't want to be in the Big East for football, but are they worth it?

[Bearcat85]

As an aside, for the oldtimers - anyone remember a time when there was even close to this much excitement over the football program?

Nope! I've been waiting 27 years for this!

And now that I'm looking over that Bowl line-up, I think it really stinks compared to how good our top 5 are.

[juckerrules]

Correct me if I am wrong on this.

***If bowl elgible then Notre Dame can be selected for any bowl game that the Big East is tied to. A positive is that the Big East is no longer the only ones included in this. Should the Irish not qualify for a BCS Bowl, they will be eligible to play in the AT&T Cotton Bowl Classic, the Toyota Gator Bowl, the Vitalis Sun Bowl and the Houston Bowl each one time for the next four seasons.

***In the past Navy has received a bowl bid for the Car Care Bowl if bowl elgible.

PapaJohn's.com Bowl
Dec. 22 / 1 p.m. Birmingham, Ala. ESPN2
Tie-ins: Big East (or MAC) vs. C-USA

Meineke Car Care Bowl
Dec. 29 / 1 p.m. Charlotte, N.C. ESPN

Sun Bowl
Dec. 31 / 2 p.m. El Paso, Texas CBS
Tie-ins: Big 12/Big East/Notre Dame vs. Pac-10 No. 3

Gator Bowl
Jan. 1 / 1 p.m. Jacksonville, Fla. CBS
Tie-ins: ACC No. 3 vs. Big 12/Big East/Notre Dame

International Bowl
Jan. 5 / 12 p.m. Toronto, Canada ESPN2
Tie-ins: Big East/Notre Dame vs. MAC No. 4 or 5

I don't think anyone needs to worry about Notre Dame going anywhere - they are pathetic and playing a very tough schedule - I'll be shocked if they win 3 games.

[richard k.]

I don't think ND goes anywhere this year either. However, my point is why are they entitled to a "BEast bowl slot" when they don't play football in the conference. As to ND's basketball and baseball programs, the BEast doesn't need any help from the Golden Domers in hoops and their baseball team (or any other school's) doesn't warrant inclusion in the conference. The athletic administrators at ND have said in no uncertain terms that the switch from the MAC to the BEast for all "olympic" sports was one of the best things they have ever done. So, in fact, the shoe is on the other foot - it's ND that needs/wants the BEast and as far as I'm concerned, if they have a football program playing 1A football and they don't want to play in conference like everyone else they certainly shouldn't get one of the BEast bowl slots, and they really aught not to be in the conference. If they left the BEast and became the 12th team in the Big 10 - anyone think the Big 10 takes them and lets them remain a football independent (and with a shot at getting the Rose bowl invite - you've got to be kidding!)

[CatsClaw]

First place Big East team: BCS Bowl
Second place BE team: Sun/Gator (probably Sun Bowl this year) vs Big 12
3rd place Big East: Tire Bowl vs ACC
4th place Big East: Texas Bowl vs Big 12
5th place Big East: Birmingham Bowl vs C-USA
6th place Big East: International Bowl vs MAC

Hopefully the Big East gets that rumored Florida Bowl up and running and gets a BCS conference like the Big Ten, Big 12 or Pac-10 locked into it since those conferences want some Florida exposure.

[Bearcat_DF]

Can ND in basketball and baseball make it worth it? I know why they don't want to be in the Big East for football, but are they worth it?

ND has the large and unique fan base. Its uniqueness lies in teh fact taht it is national. Because of this fan base, they have a lot of leverage with TV contracts and bowl tie ins. In terms of the bowl tie ins, ND has those tie-ins independent of the BE - the bowls would rather have a mediocre ND than a superior BE team because they will bring fans to the game and have a large TV audience.

It is that same fan base that gives them leverage with the BE. They are an asset to the BE for the basketball TV contract. While BE basketball is great, I suspect without ND, we do not have a lot of market share in the West.

I think one of the things that will impact ND is the how the lack of a conference hurts their recruiting. It used to be that a player could be convinced that it was not important to win a conference championship because they would be playing for a national championship. ND hasn't played for a NC in a long time. I suspect players are more interested in playing in a conference where they can win a conference championship and play for a national championship.

Go Cats!
DF

[richard k.]

I agree that ND has a "large and unique" fan base, but the "subway alums" are primarily football oriented. I doubt that there are many west coast basketball aficiandos that watch BEast basketball because of ND. Most know the conference because of UConn, etc. I put to you the question of where does ND go for all its sports aside from football if the BEast said play football in conference or go elsewhere? It would certainly make our ooc scheduling easier if we only had 4 to worry about rather than 5. We could then say to Miami(O) play every other year at our place and once every 4 years in Oxford and the remaining 4 year cycle game at PBS.

[Bearcat_DF]

Richard,

Good question about ND. I would think that the danger of playing that chip is pushing ND to the Big 10/11. I'm not sure that is in their best interest or the best opportunity.

Also, I'm not sure it would resolve the bowl tie-in question. ND even as a mediocre as they have been are still very attractive to bowls, so even if they were to join the Big 10/11 or the BE, I can still imagine them having special bowl tie-ins.

Go Cats!
DF

[jkwuc89]

Unless the Big East champion is playing in the BCS National Championship game, the Orange Bowl is obligated to select the Big East champion as one of its participants.

This season, there is no concern about ND taking a Big East bowl slot. ND will be lucky to win 3 or 4 games this season.

[xubrew]

here are all the bowl tie-ins.

http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=247838

how notre dame got their bowl tie-ins with the big east is sort of a long story, but basically it was part of the agreement when the acc and big east realigned. they wanted notre dame, and the rest of the basketball schools, to vote to keep the conference together, and one way to assure notre dame's vote was to offer them a deal as sweet as they have it. again, it's a long story, but that's the gist of it.

[richard k.]

Why would the football schools want to keep the conference together with the non-football schools? I know that the football schools don't share football revenue with the others, but why do they need them at all? 16 teams is simply too large. The 8 football schools should go their own way, and if ND wants to come along for all sports fine, and if not add Central Fla., or maybe Marshall, or some other appropriate MAC or C-USA squad, like MEMPHIS - think they might be interested (who knows Penn St. might like to rethink its choice of a bunch of midwestern schools). The better basketball is played in the football playing schools, see, e.g., UConn, Syracuse, UofL, etc. The better women's basketball is played in the football playing schools - see UConn, Rutgers. ND should get in line, if it wants to come in it should come in for all sports, if not add Memphis as the 9th school - that gives you 8 football games, and with a home and home, it gives you 16 basketball games. St. John's, Providence, Georgetown, Marquette, Depaul, and the others can form their own conference. UC has found a home for all its sports - at the very highest level of collegiate competition - after a long struggle, and I don't think anyone else, even ND, should get a free ride. The only person who wants to keep this crazy amalgam together is Tranghese - probably has something to do with the amount of money he gets paid.

[Bearcat_DF]

I don't even want to pretend I know all of the internal politics that went on behind doors to keep the BE together when Miami, VT, and BC all left. Likewise, I'm sure there are still some pretty interesting internal politics within the conference.

But I think one big motivator to keep the basketball only schools would be the TV markets they bring - St. Johns - NYC, Georgetown - DC, DePaul - Chicago, Villanova - Philly, Marquette - Milwakee (sp?), etc.

Also, there is the issue of playing the conference tournament at MSG.

I'm sure that there will be some shaking out in the future, but I don't see a pure split anytime in the near future.

Go Cats!
DF

[xubrew]

Why would the football schools want to keep the conference together with the non-football schools? I know that the football schools don't share football revenue with the others, but why do they need them at all? 16 teams is simply too large. The 8 football schools should go their own way, and if ND wants to come along for all sports fine, and if not add Central Fla., or maybe Marshall, or some other appropriate MAC or C-USA squad, like MEMPHIS - think they might be interested (who knows Penn St. might like to rethink its choice of a bunch of midwestern schools). The better basketball is played in the football playing schools, see, e.g., UConn, Syracuse, UofL, etc. The better women's basketball is played in the football playing schools - see UConn, Rutgers. ND should get in line, if it wants to come in it should come in for all sports, if not add Memphis as the 9th school - that gives you 8 football games, and with a home and home, it gives you 16 basketball games. St. John's, Providence, Georgetown, Marquette, Depaul, and the others can form their own conference. UC has found a home for all its sports - at the very highest level of collegiate competition - after a long struggle, and I don't think anyone else, even ND, should get a free ride. The only person who wants to keep this crazy amalgam together is Tranghese - probably has something to do with the amount of money he gets paid.

essentially, the big east bylaws state that a majority vote could dissolve the conference. if that were to happen, in technical and legal terms, the big east conference would not exist. therefore, all the bowl and tv contracts would be null and void.

when boston college left, they needed the basketball schools (and i'm including notre dame in that) to vote to keep the conference together. they at least needed one of the teams.

also, in order to be an automatic qualifier for ncaa championship play, a conference must have six schools that have been together for five seasons. had the basketball schools left, the remaining football schools would not have had that. that's practically a moot point for men's basketball as well as most other sports because i can't imagine a situation where the conference champion would need an automatic bid to make the ncaa tournament, but it was still something they did not want to give up.

i seriously doubt notre dame will ever join up with the football schools. if there is a split, the irish will almost assuredly remain independent in football, and remain alligned with the basketball schools in all other sports. as an institution they have much more in common with those schools anyway.

i wouldn't be so quick to conclude that the schools with football teams have better basketball as well. since the league went to 16 teams, the basketball schools have sent more teams to the tournament and won more tournament games. villanova has been to an elite eight and georgetown has been to the final four. connecticut is the only football school to get past the sweet sixteen thus far. last year, louisville and pitt were the only two football schools to make it, whereas the basketball schools sent four. i'd say the basketball schools are at least as good and arguably better.

[Jose_Jalapeno_on_a_Stick]

Richard, it'll ultimately come down to the presidents of the football schools growing a backbone. They seem to fall in line with whatever ND dictates.

As far as the hybrid concoction and ND bowl tie-ins, it was obviously a by-product of the BE's weakened state after the three schools left in 2003. Now, the football schools are stronger competitively than anyone could have imagined. It certainly bolsters the notion that they can "stand on their own."

Now we need an inventive, experienced hand as a post-split Commish. Jurich, anyone?