Game Thread for Bellarmine

[CroninCrazy]

Born Ready is looking good, scored first...

We're leading 3-0.

[CroninCrazy]

Starters:
Cash
DV
Born Ready
Toy
Gates

First subs off the bench (to press):
Wilks for Born Ready
Bishop for Toy

[Cats4Ever]

slow start - 6 - 2 after 4:30.

good picture at http://channelsurfing.net/watch-cincinnati.html

[Irishbearcat]

I like seeing Wilks playing....huge upside if he can play some D, and get into the flow offensively.

[CroninCrazy]

Starting to take some control:

19-11

[ncaa2011]

I like seeing Wilks playing....huge upside if he can play some D, and get into the flow offensively.

I agree, great half by Wilks. he has really stepped up.

not a good shooting half for the rest of the team though. Where is Deonta??Bellarmine has zero offensive weapons. Not really testing our D at all.

[DimitriusChristedes]

went through a period there where the cats were jacking up threes every possession. Use the exhibition to work on actual offense, not your three point shot. If I were Mick I would literally ban the three point shot on pain of benching and wind sprints.

[ME80]

went through a period there where the cats were jacking up threes every possession. Use the exhibition to work on actual offense, not your three point shot. If I were Mick I would literally ban the three point shot on pain of benching and wind sprints.

While I understand your frustration, the 3 point shot is a part of Mick's offense so why would you not practice that part of it while you can. Now after saying that I agree that some of them have been ill advised.

[CincyEngGrad02]

7 point game right now with 16 min to play

[Bearcat Jeff]

I want to see more driving to the basket from this team. They fall in love with jumpers way too much.

[ncaa2011]

While I understand your frustration, the 3 point shot is a part of Mick's offense so why would you not practice that part of it while you can. Now after saying that I agree that some of them have been ill advised.

those ill advised threes were not part of Mick's offense, at least i hope not. We were rushing down the court, making one pass and jacking up a brick. At least wait until our bigs can get underneath the basket. For a minute there the tallest player that Bellarmine had on the floor was 6'6". But the bottom line is that we have lots of quick ball handlers - there's no excuse not to be taking the ball hard to the rim.

Vaughn still hasn't shown up for this one. Although it is good to see that we have other weapons besides him. I expect Deonta will be ready to play once we get to Maui.

[brohar]

Man this game is hard to watch...
We are letting them score way too easy and our offense looks sloppy and unplanned. Where is the push, the dribble drive pass, movement?? Where's Vaughn, he doesnt seem to be leading.

[ME80]

those ill advised threes were not part of Mick's offense, at least i hope not. We were rushing down the court, making one pass and jacking up a brick. At least wait until our bigs can get underneath the basket. For a minute there the tallest player that Bellarmine had on the floor was 6'6". But the bottom line is that we have lots of quick ball handlers - there's no excuse not to be taking the ball hard to the rim.

Vaughn still hasn't shown up for this one. Although it is good to see that we have other weapons besides him. I expect Deonta will be ready to play once we get to Maui.

Actually we are all in agreement on the ill advised shots. My argument is you can't just play a game with the intention that every play has to go inside no matter what. Sometimes you just have to take what the defense gives you.

[Irishbearcat]

We should be attacking the basket. With Gates, and LS (and even Wilks cutting).....I don't get it. Then again, this is why you play games like these.

[blackcattitude]

Toyloy appears to have knocked a guy out

[Irishbearcat]

He's a beast.

[ncaa2011]

Actually we are all in agreement on the ill advised shots. My argument is you can't just play a game with the intention that every play has to go inside no matter what. Sometimes you just have to take what the defense gives you.

I'm not buying that Bellarmine has shown they can stop the dribble drive. Take a look at what Cash has been able to do in the past few minutes. He's very adept at taking the ball to the tin and drawing fouls. He's also been able to find cutters once he beats the first man and draws a help defender.

[CroninCrazy]

75-67 with under a minute left.

[BearcatAlum1]

It is important to remember that nothing is as bad as it seems and nothing is as good as it seems.

Please keep in mind that this was an exhibition.

Observations:

Wilks played well. Had approx. 16 points, some tough rebounds and did a good job screening. He still had his "Wilks moments," but generally played very well.

Lance's talent is apparent. However, he is needs to attack the basket more and be more selfish. Less contested jumpshots and more dribble/slashing.

Cash played "ok." He was aggressive in the second half and got to the line quite often. He makes freshman type passes (i.e. bad!), but seems confident to run the show.

Toyloy is the trash man. He'll play tough, rebound and knock heads around. I'd be scared if he approached me in an ally.

DV was quiet. While somewhat concerning, it was great to see us score 75+ without DV doing much of anything.

Davis played alright. He was aggressive on offense but HORRIBLE on defense. He is a good "open" 3pt shooter.

Bishop was "Bishop-esque."

Dixon's athleticism is great for a guard. He had a few offensive tip-ins and is a gamer. Love his hustle and will. True winner.

Kilpatrick was non-existant. Not too much play. As expected, he'll see limited minutes.

Parker played spot minutes and was quiet. I expect he'll see 5-8 minutes a game.

Biggie saw limited minutes. Nothing exciting about his play.

[MDW79]

Not pretty but that's what these are for. We ran about every rotation/lineup possible. I have a feeling Vaughn was instructed to just move the ball and play his role. There were numerous times he could have taken an open look and he'd just swing the ball back around.

[blackcattitude]

impressions:
- i watch a lot of D2 basketball. this is a really good D2 team
- we've stepped up our defense. rotation was a weak point last year, but it looked better today.
- if Wilks plays any D, he'll help this team out
- our post passes need to be higher. on TV, it looks like Gates n Toyloy have bad hands. in person, they're catching it at the thigh and have to move the ball up prior to making a post move, which leads to shots bein rushed and missed. when throwing inside, aim for the nameplate, not the numbers
- ushers are way nicer in the preseason. moved all the way from 219 to 104
- Cash is smooth, but let's get the fancy s*** outta our system early.
- too much pass-once-then-take-a-bad-shot early
more later, on my phone

[Carin's Dad]

impressions:
- i watch a lot of D2 basketball. this is a really good D2 team
- we've stepped up our defense. rotation was a weak point last year, but it looked better today.
- if Wilks plays any D, he'll help this team out
- our post passes need to be higher. on TV, it looks like Gates n Toyloy have bad hands. in person, they're catching it at the thigh and have to move the ball up prior to making a post move, which leads to shots bein rushed and missed. when throwing inside, aim for the nameplate, not the numbers
- ushers are way nicer in the preseason. moved all the way from 219 to 104
- Cash is smooth, but let's get the fancy s*** outta our system early.
- too much pass-once-then-take-a-bad-shot early
more later, on my phoneThis is why I started the thread about the #1 Div II team in the country. They are good and gave the Bearcats just what they needed: competition.

They'll have a lot more information to work with then they would have with a blowout. An excellent learning opportunity.

[waterhead]

I wonder if Mick didn't plan to let Vaughn get the younger guys involved in the game to gain experience and confidence. I can't figure out another way to explain his non-existence in this game. Our offense should develop eventually to have three go to points. Vaughn, Stephenson, and Gates...with the others getting free looks from bounce out or dish passes.

I didn't like the defensive intensity but that will change as we get into the season as the bench gets used as motivation.

[bearcattg]

Toyloy is the trash man. He'll play tough, rebound and knock heads around. I'd be scared if he approached me in an ally.


That's what I said. Toyloy is an old school Bearcat. He's the intimidator and enforcer. Long line of Bearcats over the last 15 years that fit that role. He's not a guy you want to get in a fight with.

[Bcat007]

If someone could have drawn up a blueprint we could have renovated 5th 3rd with all the bricks thrown up. Inside, outside, free throw line, you name it. So far Cash has not been the answer to getting Vaughn the looks he was supposed to. Lance needs to let the game come to him more and stop forcing shots. I hope the talk about Yancy going pro after this season is settled after seeing his play to this point. He looks totally lost. Would be nice if someone could stay in front of his man off the dribble. Don't know how many driving layups they had. We only had 2 fast break points..2!! That is absolutely horrible for a pressing team. Dion Dixon needed to go to the basket more because his jumper was awful. Davis and Vaughn were awol. Only bright spots were Wilks and Toyloy. Overall grade for 1st two games is a C. Good enough for about 10th place in the B.E. Ok..yes it's too early to predict how good this team will be, but the poor production by certain key players to this point has been tough to watch.

[Lobot]

Toyloy is the trash man. He'll play tough, rebound and knock heads around. I'd be scared if he approached me in an ally.

Was that last part really a necessary comment?

[BeastUC]

Well it took Syracuse a exhibition loss to get it,so hopefully a close win helps this team.
We'll see monday.

[dp3113]

I wonder if Mick didn't plan to let Vaughn get the younger guys involved in the game to gain experience and confidence. I can't figure out another way to explain his non-existence in this game. Our offense should develop eventually to have three go to points. Vaughn, Stephenson, and Gates...with the others getting free looks from bounce out or dish passes.

I didn't like the defensive intensity but that will change as we get into the season as the bench gets used as motivation.

Am I the only person who thinks that Gates really has a lot to prove before we call him a "go-to"? He has yet to show a real consistent move or ability to dominate even smaller competition.

[Boosilini]

First off,Cash played his butt off and Wilks was the most consistent in the two exb. games.
Dixon looked a little confused out there and Larry was trying too hard.Gates showed me nothing.Biggie hit the floor hard in the Two or Three mins he was in there and bishop was solid.
Question. why jack up threes??
Hopefully Mick cant teach these guys some offense and quick.If not its going to be a disappointing year gentlemen.......It was tough to watch.
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[chrislewis]

Was that last part really a necessary comment?

i dont think he meant anything other than the fact that he is a physically opposing figure.

chill.

[Joe C.]

Was that last part really a necessary comment?

Really??? It's a common saying that has no negative implications. A little hypersensative don't you think?

[BearcatAlum1]

i dont think he meant anything other than the fact that he is a physically opposing figure.

chill.

It's a saying, cliche', metaphor, etc.

Toyloy is a straight beast. He is 6'9" 260lbs of pure muscle. The man looks like he has a jaw of steel. Combine his physical appearance with his lack of smiling, angry style of play and reserved personality, and you see why he is a force in the paint.

The "ally" saying is a metaphor that suggests there is nowhere to run and must go through the man to escape.

Would you want to go through Toyloy?

If you look hard enough, you'll start to imagine things are there....

[bacsidoan]

If someone could have drawn up a blueprint we could have renovated 5th 3rd with all the bricks thrown up. Inside, outside, free throw line, you name it. So far Cash has not been the answer to getting Vaughn the looks he was supposed to. Lance needs to let the game come to him more and stop forcing shots. I hope the talk about Yancy going pro after this season is settled after seeing his play to this point. He looks totally lost. Would be nice if someone could stay in front of his man off the dribble. Don't know how many driving layups they had. We only had 2 fast break points..2!! That is absolutely horrible for a pressing team. Dion Dixon needed to go to the basket more because his jumper was awful. Davis and Vaughn were awol. Only bright spots were Wilks and Toyloy. Overall grade for 1st two games is a C. Good enough for about 10th place in the B.E. Ok..yes it's too early to predict how good this team will be, but the poor production by certain key players to this point has been tough to watch.

Thank you for saying what I had in mind.

[Natiwhat]

It's a saying, cliche', metaphor, etc.

Toyloy is a straight beast. He is 6'9" 260lbs of pure muscle. The man looks like he has a jaw of steel. Combine his physical appearance with his lack of smiling, angry style of play and reserved personality, and you see why he is a force in the paint.

The "ally" saying is a metaphor that suggests there is nowhere to run and must go through the man to escape.

Would you want to go through Toyloy?

If you look hard enough, you'll start to imagine things are there....

I'd rather have him approach me as an ally than in an alley

[LongTimer]

First of all, that was a great exhibition game to schedule. That team didn't have any impressive athletes, just a bunch of average Joes who have really good basketball skills and played great "Team" basketball. They competed and that was good for us.

I know everyone is excited about Born Ready, but that boy has a long way to go. His defense is non-existent...one of the worst I have ever seen. He forces way to much on offense. As I said last week, he has his own set of plays that he will decide to run at any point no matter what the coaches are calling for. He's obviously super talented and I saw him start to loosen up in the 2nd half and start aggressively taking it to the hole. I am really concerned about his defense and his playing time getting limited somewhat by that. Last night, he was getting beat to the basket, and then he would complicate it by making a stupid foul while letting the guy score. The fouls kept getting him taken out of the game, and he was getting upset about coming out. He has to improve defensively and stop forcing things offensively whenever he feels it's his turn to shoot. When these things happen, we'll have a player.

For the people on here that last week were suggesting that Wilks needs to be red-shirted....what were you thinking? Wilks will be one of our stars this year. He is a high effort guy. He is playing with confidence. He's the whole package. He has some faults, but I am loving what I am seeing out of him.

Yancy is no different than last year. He's ok....a nice player....nothing flashy....certainly not NBA ready. I hope he continues to improve over the next three years as a Bearcat and is drafted high in 2012.

This is a deep team of talented, but somewhat inconsistant players. I suspect there will be times when we will play better than any team in the nation, and other times when we look pretty bad. The key will be our defense. We need to become consistantly good on defense in order to weather thru the inconsistant times that I think we will be prone to have offensively. I still think there is enough talent to win the Big East if everything comes together.

[Namrag]

I was at the game, and I have to say I was dissappointed.
I know it was a preseason game, but I got the feeling that the team, except for Wilkes, just wasn't very interested in playing hard.
They played very uninspired, just like the last few seasons.
Again, I know it is pre-season, but you would think there would be guys with some fire trying to play their way in to more playing time once the season starts.

Wilkes: He had energy. Yes he had some lapses, but he was the only one who showed consistent effort, in my opinion.

DV: I gotta think that the game plan was for him NOT to try to score. I undersand that plan since it was preseason and since we know he can score.

Cash: I could see his quickness moving the ball. But I didn't see him making anything happen.

LS: You can see the talent. But he had some horrible shots in the first half. He drove the lane a few times, but he was happy to stay on the perimeter for the most part.

**My main complaint is that the offense appeared the same as in years past. I thought that prior to this year we had to play the perimeter offense because we lacked talent. But I thought that this year would be different. I thought that instead of having 3 or 4 guys stand on the perimeter passing back and forth until one gets enough room to jack up a long range jumper, that we have the athletes to actually drive the lane, take pull up shots, dish off to big men and cutters, or maybe just maybe get a flush every now and again. But last night looked no different than before for the most part. We had 3 or 4 guys hang on the perimeter, pass it around until one guy gets some space, then jack up the long ball.

Bishop: He was Bishop. Nothing more or less from last year. He was solid as a contributor, but wasn't a big contributor. A solid player for us, but not the level of a BEast starter for a upper half BEast team.

Toyloy: This guy is all brute force. He pummels the iron until one of his putbacks drop in. Absolutley no finesse or touch, but all heart and effort. I like his effort and toughness. But against better, taller teams he won't be able to keep getting his own rebounds to put 2 or 3 or 4 putbacks up until one finally falls in.

Gates: I just didn't see much out of him last night that suggest thats he will be significantly better this year. Then again, with the team for most of the game playing the perimeter offense I mentioned above, he never got too involved with an offensive set. Maybe I am expecting too much, but I keep hoping that he will show some Eric Hicks ferocity around the rim.

Davis: Didn't do much when he was in during the 1st half. Had a few nice moments in the second half on offense. Looks to be a decent contributor at spots, no different than last year.

Parker: He brought some energy and swagger. He didn't have any big spots that stand out, but I did like how active he seemed to be when he was in, and I like his attitude. He seemed confident on the floor, not hesitant. For some reason I get a Tony Bobbit feel from him. I think if he doesn't become a solid contributor this year, he certainly will in the coming years.

Dixon: Didn't do much when he was in during the first half. Like Davis, he seemed more in to the game in the second half. He plays hard. I think he will continue to grow as a contributor offensively.

McCLain: I was really hoping that he would show something when he got in. I really want him to succede. He hustled. Other than that, it instantly dissappointed me when as soon as he got in, he ran down to set up in the post on offense, and some skinny 6-6 or 6-8 guy, clearly a head shorter and much lighter, seemed to easily displace him and keep him from getting position. They didn't run any offensive sets through him that I remember. He had a block on defense when he slid over to help in the paint. He hit the ground on offense going after a ball that got slapped away from him. I dunno. I keep hoping that he will turn 'it' on. He seems relatively athletic for his size. I just don't get why he doesn't seem to produce better.

Kilpatrick: When he was in he seemed scared and very hesitant.


The game as a whole never seemed to have any flow. There was way too much fouling. For some reason we were fouling a lot. I commented to my son that normally it is the less talented team that fouls a lot to try to offset the superior talent they are facing. But last night it was UC who was doing most of the fouling.

For a program that hasn't generated much excitement or interest over the past few years, I thought that with the upgrade in talent this year that we would see a more exciting style of play. From what I have read I thought we were supposed to be a pressing and running, high energy high excitement style of team this year. Honestly what I saw was not any different that the previous Cronin years as far as style of play.

I continue to believe that one of our biggest problems is that we do not have an experienced player who is a vocal player. DV has experience and toughness, but he doesn't seem to be a vocal floor coach or leader. We need a guy on the court who commands respect with his performance, leads by example, and also gets in the other guys faces to get them fired up, to get them excited, and to tell them what they are supposed to be doing when they aren't doing it.

Again, I know that it was only a pre-season game. Hopefully it will all change once the games count.

[aronius]

Good post Longtimer.

I agree that it was a good game to put on the schedule. Mick has always said he doesn't get the team "tuned up" to play the exhibition games as he wants the players to struggle a little bit. Agree or disagree with that philosophy but that is what was going on last night imo.

I love the energy that Wilks, Dixon, and Toyloy bring to the floor. Shocking the improvements Wilks has made in the last year. I think Lance is close to figuring things out....not so much defensively but I think he'll be an offensive force soon. Yancy is a 4 year player, period.

[Bearcat John 69]

For a program that hasn't generated much excitement or interest over the past few years, I thought that with the upgrade in talent this year that we would see a more exciting style of play. From what I have read I thought we were supposed to be a pressing and running, high energy high excitement style of team this year. Honestly what I saw was not any different that the previous Cronin years as far as style of play.

great post namrag. i also am still wondering, where is the press? where is the running? seems to make sense to work on your press in exhibition games.

i am going to be very disappointed if all mick's talk about pressing and running remains talk.

[Namrag]

They did try to full court press midway or so throught the second half, but it was not effective at all and they quickly quit it.

[Bcat007]

You guys are rolling today. Some really good posts. Namrag your comments on Toyloy i thought were great. Longtimer i know you get ragged on sometime, but i do enjoy your comments as well. I believe when Ibrahima Thomas gets cleared he will help our frontline alot. He has shown more offensive ability than our other post guys. His ability to step out and draw a defender out of the lane should help guys like Yancy. But i am eager to see how Gates fares against frontline's like X and Syracuse. You don't always have to block a shot just stay in front of your man and make him shoot over you. Right now we don't move our feet very well at all.

[adrock]

On a related note, reading the Cincinnati Enquirer comments after a UC basketball story make me ashamed to be a Bearcat fan.

We beat the best DII team in the country in a game that meant nothing to us and much more to them without running an offensive set. Just for emphasis:

We won.
The game was more important to the opponent than us on an emotional level.
We didn't run the same gameplan we would during the regular season.


And the Mick haters still came out in full force to criticize a game for which there is no harsh criticism to be given. He gave them absolutely nothing to bash him for, and yet they did.

[LongTimer]

On a related note, reading the Cincinnati Enquirer comments after a UC basketball story make me ashamed to be a Bearcat fan.

We beat the best DII team in the country in a game that meant nothing to us and much more to them without running an offensive set. Just for emphasis:

We won.
The game was more important to the opponent than us on an emotional level.
We didn't run the same gameplan we would during the regular season.


And the Mick haters still came out in full force to criticize a game for which there is no harsh criticism to be given. He gave them absolutely nothing to bash him for, and yet they did.

I haven't seen anybody really bashing Mick...just concerned about the team. Also, you don't really know that we won't be running that same gameplan during the regular season or not. It wasn't about running the gameplan. It was about executing the gameplan. We may run that very same gameplan all year long, but execute it much better than we did last night, and consequently we will look much better.

For a point of comparison, Louisville played the same team, was in a tight game for most of the game and pulled away at the end to win by 17. We were ahead by 16 late in the ball game, screwed up a few things and let them close the gap to 7. There's not a lot of difference between what Louisville did to them and what we did to them. I was impressed with Bellarmine. They looked like a bunch of slow white guys that we should dominate, but in reality they were very skilled, played well as a team, were very disciplined, and executed very well. A No. 1 rated Div. 2 team is a damn good team and they fought us hard. If we had really played bad, I'm sure they would have been capable of beating us on a given night.

Bottom line, the depth on this team is amazing and when the pieces start coming together, this could be a very fun year. His substitution pattern is just crazy right now because he has so many good players. He'll have to reign that in a little as the season goes on and when he does, I suspect we'll see some improved consistency and better execution.

[Irishbearcat]

I can't say I'm thrilled to hear about the play in the game, however.....

-It's very early
-guys will have new roles to fill
-meshing four or five (Thomas) new guys into the flow takes time, as well as learning the system and gaining some confidence
-the opponent may have actually worked their gameplan, while perhaps we did not (which is apparently the case), so let's give them some credit.

In other words, I'm not concerned. If we play like this in the fourth regular season game, then I'm thinking our fourth or fifth best team in the BE is more likely to finish in the bottom half. I think we'll be fine. Gates has been there, DV is big competitior, Thomas isn't even playing yet, and LS is gonna kick some booty. I suggest patience.

[Boosilini]

Period.This cant be the team we have on the floor in Maui.Even though we know DV will be ok...Vandy alone most likely has returning starters so we'll be eaten alive.I pray WE play inspired basketball but i didnt see it last night.Anything we do positive will be a suprise.The home games for the most part will be ok but when we step away.....Nice work bellarmine but we shouldve put them away in the first ten mins.If you were at the game u saw we were bigger,more atheletic and from what i thought we were more skilled.We need Patrick Ewing to come in here and work with Gates lol.Like Longtimer said"itll be times we look great and times we look like the worst team ever".....What we need is a Bearcatnews section at the Shoe.I would love to meet some of you!
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[Irishbearcat]

I'm the one wearing the UC grey hoodie. :)

[columbus_bearcat]

I haven't seen anybody really bashing Mick...just concerned about the team.

I'm pretty sure adrock was talking about the comments from this article, I can't read them anymore. Some people that post there are simply anti-Mick, no other way to describe it. Same people involved each time, lots of Mick bashing there.

[ucat4]

I'm pretty sure adrock was talking about the comments from this article, I can't read them anymore. Some people that post there are simply anti-Mick, no other way to describe it. Same people involved each time, lots of Mick bashing there.

It makes you wonder if they're even Bearcat fans w/ the ridiculous stuff they say.

[Ding Chavez]

Yep. I don't even bother reading the comments after the articles or blog posts about UC hoops. It's just infuriating.