Alex Daniels

[shaunsimpson]

Buckeyextra article on Alex Daniels (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/football/stories/2007/09/25/minn25.ART_ART_09-25-07_C1_2I80MCV.html)
Alex Daniels Scout Profile (http://cincinnati.scout.com/a.z?s=341&p=8&c=1&nid=1208774)
Alexi Daniels Rivals Profile (http://cincinnati.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=28225&sport=1)

It appears that Alex Daniels is at UC taking classes. I don't know if he will get the scholorship or make the team, but one heck of a talent.

[The real Bearcat Fan]

Alex is a great talent, if he ends up playing football at U C I believe he would be a pleasant addition.

[STKohls]

It appears that Alex Daniels is at UC taking classes. I don't know if he will get the scholorship or make the team, but one heck of a talent.

After reading about the reason he was dismissed from Minnesota, I'm not sure if his talent level is that important.

[bearcatd]

Pleasant doesn't describe the Dispatch Story.

[bobestes]

Ugh no thanks. Let him go to OSU.

[red_n_black_attack]

Allow the courts (legal not court of public opinion) to run through the process.

For now, letssupport this young man as he gets his academic life in order. His alledged history will not deter his ability to make a contribution on the football field. Just like the sex tape with recruits and the soccer player, if there's no proof or conviction, it will die down.

[shaunsimpson]

He was not charged with anything and articles from Minnesota say that there is a tremendious lack of evidence.

[bobestes]

Oh for goodness' sake.

If this kid was at OSU, every single one of you would be saying he should be kicked out of school, etc. But because he could potentially end up at UC, it's "Well let's give him a chance"

Face facts, he and his friends got a girl stupid drunk and took turns having sex with her. That's vile.

[mlb]

Lets face the real facts, Bob.

Kids drink in college. Many drink to excess. This girl could have been drinking with all of them, decided to have sex, and passed out while having sex. Sound strange? While in college I saw a lot of strange things due to drinking.

Why was she drinking in a room with 3 or 4 guys to excess as it was?

We weren't there, we don't know the whole story. I have never been quick to jump on someone because many times the info that came out wasn't accurate. ****, UC fans can never say anything after the issues that have gone on with athletes... let the courts figure it out, and decide if charges need to be filed or not.

[STKohls]

He was not charged with anything and articles from Minnesota say that there is a tremendious lack of evidence.

The one article linked said that there was video evidence reconstructed from Daniels' phone. So he may not have done anything illegal, but he documented someone else doing it? geez.

[shaunsimpson]

I will wait to hear what the video shows.....it was just recently turned over to the defense. You are correct that it doesn't pass the smell test, but some cases (Duke) make me hesitant to judge prematurely.
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2007/09/04/72163204

[Rickriot]

Even if he get's his act together and is given a scholarship or even as a walk-on, it seems like he'll only have one year of elligibility. It's not a significant addition. BK will reap some serious benefits from this season and one will be not having to deal with guys with character issues.

[qsilvr2531]

Lets face the real facts, Bob.

Kids drink in college. Many drink to excess. This girl could have been drinking with all of them, decided to have sex, and passed out while having sex. Sound strange? While in college I saw a lot of strange things due to drinking.

Why was she drinking in a room with 3 or 4 guys to excess as it was?

We weren't there, we don't know the whole story. I have never been quick to jump on someone because many times the info that came out wasn't accurate. ****, UC fans can never say anything after the issues that have gone on with athletes... let the courts figure it out, and decide if charges need to be filed or not.

As you present it, at worst he's an evil human being who raped someone and deserves to spend a very long time jail. At best he took advantage of someone while they were drunk, but at least he's not a criminal. It will be pretty sad if we have to fall back on the "she deserved it because she was drinking with them" excuse to justify his behavior, as if he isn't responsible for his own actions because she was drunk.

[bcat51]

Even if he get's his act together and is given a scholarship or even as a walk-on, it seems like he'll only have one year of elligibility. It's not a significant addition. BK will reap some serious benefits from this season and one will be not having to deal with guys with character issues.

Daniels was a 2005 commit; he would still have two years of eligibility left starting next season if
he becomes part of our program.

[shaunsimpson]

And since he is enrolled at UC that means that this would count as his year off.

[Texcat]

As you present it, at worst he's an evil human being who raped someone and deserves to spend a very long time [in] jail. .

Are we talking about a college athlete here or Bill Clinton?

:)

TexCat

[Bearcat_DF]

Just like the sex tape with recruits and the soccer player, if there's no proof or conviction, it will die down.


Whatever happened with the UC video incident? I vaguely remember that a player was involved and was to be disciplined with a game suspension.

The only player who has been suspend was Byrd.

However, he was disciplined for "missing classes" in the winter.

So, was it Byrd and the SID lied to the press or was it one of the players who left - Derrick Steward or Trevor Anderson?

Inquiring minds want to know?

Go Cats!
DF

ps - I guess the good news is that the local press has allowed a sleep dog alone.

[mlb]

As you present it, at worst he's an evil human being who raped someone and deserves to spend a very long time jail. At best he took advantage of someone while they were drunk, but at least he's not a criminal. It will be pretty sad if we have to fall back on the "she deserved it because she was drinking with them" excuse to justify his behavior, as if he isn't responsible for his own actions because she was drunk.

Not the case at all. If they were all drinking to excess (as in shots of liquor) then all were acting without a clear head. Women can be charged with rape as well if they have sex with a drunk male. I'm just saying we don't know all the information, making a judgement now is totally wrong, IMO.

As ShaunSimpson said, the Duke case turned out to be totaly different that what was reported in the media for months. Give the guy a chance. He isn't playing football now anyway, he is just a student.

[qsilvr2531]

Not the case at all. If they were all drinking to excess (as in shots of liquor) then all were acting without a clear head. Women can be charged with rape as well if they have sex with a drunk male. I'm just saying we don't know all the information, making a judgement now is totally wrong, IMO.

As ShaunSimpson said, the Duke case turned out to be totaly different that what was reported in the media for months. Give the guy a chance. He isn't playing football now anyway, he is just a student.

Obviously we don't know all the information, and we never will. That doesn't change the fact that people (guys and girls) are responsible for their actions even if they are drunk at the time. It doesn't matter whether some, most, or all of them were acting without a clear head at the time.

[mlb]

Correct, qsilvr. Therefore, innocent until proven guilty applies here thus anybody saying anything about Mr. Daniels having done anything is speaking prematurely. Let the case work itself out, and if the guy is found not guilty he can play football... simple as that.

[qsilvr2531]

As I mentioned, its certainly possible the guy isn't a criminal (it might even be likely) and if he isn't found guilty I'm sure he'll be allowed to play football somewhere (as he should be). But that doesn't make the scenario you described of him having sex with someone who was passed out any less despicable, even if it isn't something he should go to jail for or even something that should prevent him from playing college football somewhere. I'd just prefer that he not play college football for a team I'm cheering for, as I don't have any desire to actively support someone that does that kind of thing.

[mlb]

Well... you probably shouldn't be rooting for many of the football players now... remember last December???

It happens. It doesn't mean anything illegal happened, it just means that some people may have different morals than you. Doesn't make you right and them wrong, or vice versa.

[qsilvr2531]

Well... you probably shouldn't be rooting for many of the football players now... remember last December???

It happens. It doesn't mean anything illegal happened, it just means that some people may have different morals than you. Doesn't make you right and them wrong, or vice versa.

Man, you could justify pretty much anything with that line of reasoning. If it isn't able to be proven illegal it must be ok?

I don't think "last december" and the situation you hypothesized are terribly similar.

[hot pocket]

Dude, I guarantee this kinda thing happens every weekend on college campuses. Maybe not the video taping and that, but the scenario as presented happens way too often in college these days. That doesn't make it ok, but it is a more frequent problem than ever, mostly because of the perceived culture of college. Kids come in and get hammered drunk and don't remember what happened the night before, and they say that all their friends got drunk and they had to too...its a shame really, people don't even think its wrong when its happening.

[qsilvr2531]

Dude, I guarantee this kinda thing happens every weekend on college campuses. Maybe not the video taping and that, but the scenario as presented happens way too often in college these days. That doesn't make it ok, but it is a more frequent problem than ever, mostly because of the perceived culture of college. Kids come in and get hammered drunk and don't remember what happened the night before, and they say that all their friends got drunk and they had to too...its a shame really, people don't even think its wrong when its happening.

So it's a problem that is more frequent than ever on college campuses. Doesn't that kind of support my argument that it isn't a good thing?

[mlb]

Man, you could justify pretty much anything with that line of reasoning. If it isn't able to be proven illegal it must be ok?

I don't think "last december" and the situation you hypothesized are terribly similar.

It seems to me you have decided what he did was illegal, without any real knowledge about the event. He may not have done anything illegal, but you have decided it was illegal anyway. I can only go by what the courts decide, and if they decide he did nothing illegal then I don't know how I can say what he did was.

Seriously, in this country we have a saying, "innocent until proven guilty."

[qsilvr2531]

I'm probably not explaining myself very well, but my point is that just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it right. Justifying something based on the fact that nothing illegal happened doesn't really make much sense to me. However, I haven't at all decided if what he did was illegal. I don't even know what he did or didn't do. I'm certainly willing to wait until more facts become available (if they actually do become available) before drawing any conclusions.

However, if the situation is as you suggested (alcohol was involved and she was so drunk that she passed out) then whether the courst concluded that anything illegal happened or not doesn't change my opinion of the situation. And that's really all I've been commenting on, that somehow because alcohol was involved and she did a bunch of shots everything was cool. I have decided that if your earlier explanation is what happened then I don't want the guy on UC's football team, but that is totally contingent on your hypothetical being correct. My point is that so far even the "it might not be that bad" scenarios, like the one you posted, aren't terribly good.

[hot pocket]

I agree with your premise, I was simply stating it is a problem that is occurring more and more frequently. I don't agree with it, but it is becoming more and more a part of the college atmosphere, and people need to be aware of it. Thats all.

[mlb]

If everyone was drinking and/or drunk, I'm not sure you can fault anybody. Legally you can't if everyone was inibriated...

[General Woundwort]

If everyone was drinking and/or drunk, I'm not sure you can fault anybody. Legally you can't if everyone was inibriated...

Well, if the girl passed out, then she is unable to give consent. If you have intercourse with an unconscious person, that's generally sexual assault, and "I was drunk" is not a defense against sexual assault.

If "everyone being drunk" was a valid defense for criminal activity, then bars would essentially be "law free zones".

That said, if she gave consent and then passed out during the actual activity, it becomes much more of a gray area. In any case, two things must be kept in mind:

1) Even if no one is prosecuted, it doesn't mean nothing illegal happened. It merely means that the DA doesn't think he can win the case.

2) Even if nothing illegal happened, it doesn't mean the men involved aren't, to quote **** Cheney, "major league a-holes".

[mlb]

If both people are drunk, neither officially can give consent. I'm not even saying whether she said yes or no, because she could have said yes but not officially been in a condition where she was able to give consent. Same goes for the men in the room, as they could have been drunk as well.

Being drunk doesn't give anybody the right to break the law, but in terms of rape it is considered valid (as in you can't give consent to have sex while drunk). That would mean that the guy or guys, if drunk, could charge her with rape under the same circumstances. Whether that would hold up in court or not is another question...

As for your points, here are my responses:

1. That may be the case, but without a legal conviction I don't think we can judge him, as it could mean what you just said, or it could mean that it didn't happen as it was suggested by the "victim".

2. That may be true. But, as I said before, your morals or my morals may not be the same morals for everyone else.