Does the internet affect a coach's career?

[oldcat48]

Some of these posts have me wondering, so hear me out. Does the noise on here calling for a coach's head actually influence it happening? Coach loses some games = internet goes crazy = "fire Cronin" = used against him in recruiting ("he's out for sure") = poorer recruits = more losses = coach actually gets fired. It seems it could spiral downward in a big hurry.

Coaches used to have a lot longer to prove themselves pre-internet. Now we're gathering at the town square with torches and pitchforks. We're like a bunch of old men in the barbershop but with a wider audience on the internet. Do recruits read these boards and are coaches recruiting against Cronin aware of this negativity? I'm sure of it. I just can't help but think it ultimately affects a coach's fair shot at his career as opposed to if everything was left as it was 25 years ago when a coach could actually build a team (I know, Cronin's doing it from scratch, at that). Thoughts?

[CincyEngGrad02]

It can't help.

But on the flip side, winning cures EVERYTHING, or damn near everything.

[RobPoppeil]

Some of these posts have me wondering, so hear me out. Does the noise on here calling for a coach's head actually influence it happening? Coach loses some games = internet goes crazy = "fire Cronin" = used against him in recruiting ("he's out for sure") = poorer recruits = more losses = coach actually gets fired. It seems it could spiral downward in a big hurry.

Coaches used to have a lot longer to prove themselves pre-internet. Now we're gathering at the town square with torches and pitchforks. We're like a bunch of old men in the barbershop but with a wider audience on the internet. Do recruits read these boards and are coaches recruiting against Cronin aware of this negativity? I'm sure of it. I just can't help but think it ultimately affects a coach's fair shot at his career as opposed to if everything was left as it was 25 years ago when a coach could actually build a team (I know, Cronin's doing it from scratch, at that). Thoughts?

Of course, I think the internet and technology boom goes the other way as well. In the 60s and 70s most players stayed pretty local. They didn't know about littler schools who might have a good coach or program.

[Bearcat Cafe]

When guys like Norm Roberts get at least 6 years in NYC, I'd say the internet thing is a tad overblown.

[Lobot]

Recruits do actually read these boards and so do their parents. Jason Maxiell's mother was a frequent contributor here in the past and Marquis Teague's father apparently reads the UC boards for negative comments about Mick. It's one of the reasons Marquis hasn't committed yet according to some well placed sources.

[BeastUC]

No,otherwise there would be plenty of firings,even during the season.
Recruits go where they want,where their parents want and or where the $$ is.

Most go where they feel comfortable,otherwise a cousin of mine would be committed to UC right now.
AD's don't use what's on message boards to fire coaches.Obviously.

[cincyfan81]

Recruits do actually read these boards and so do their parents. Jason Maxiell's mother was a frequent contributor here in the past and Marquis Teague's father apparently reads the UC boards for negative comments about Mick. It's one of the reasons Marquis hasn't committed yet according to some well placed sources.

Yeah thats the reason he hasn't committed. Come on now, you can't possibly believe that do you?

[Deaf_Bearcat]

Just wondering what would have happened to Dean Smith and John Wooden if they were in the internet age? No one knows.

Mick has to deal with this internet age. Huggins has been dealing with this.

[Cpaw]

Yeah thats the reason he hasn't committed. Come on now, you can't possibly believe that do you?

Just to play the devils advocate here, how about if this is true? We do not know for sure, but people that "love" this program are potentially damaging it severely with their constant negative attacks. I am not happy with the season, but I will not come here and bash anyone, that is not my style. I support my University and it's players at the end of the day, even if it is maddening at times.

[Deaf_Bearcat]

Oh one more note... remember Yates? BEFORE the internet age, UC fans' complaint messages were very well received by UC AD. Yates was then fired.

[KY Bearcat]

Oh one more note... remember Yates? BEFORE the internet age, UC fans' complaint messages were very well received by UC AD. Yates was then fired.

So we should go directly to Thomas with all of this?

[milfordcats]

So we should go directly to Thomas with all of this?

If you think a change should be made, emailing Thomas, Williams, and the BOT would be the place to go.

[GoCats247]

I don't think it affects recruiting as much as losing all the time, not being able to win on the road, and watching 5 star recuits come to UC and fall off the draft boards. That should have a bigger impact than we say on these forums.

[STKohls]

In the past, when I was among friends (i.e. UC fans) I'd complain about Huggins endlessly (even though on balance I liked him and obviously he brought the program to national prominence). When I was out in public, however, I was totally pro-Huggins and pro-UC. There was no need for an Xavier fan, for example, to hear me complain about UC. It was very easy to keep problems and complaints in the family, so to speak.

These days, the line between public and private is much more blurred. There are plenty of things I'd like to complain about or see improved, but I rarely discuss them here because (1) I think Mick's done a decent job and want him to get a full chance, (2) I don't want to give fuel to the irrational people who've wanted Mick fired for 3 years, and (3) because I don't know which players or recruits read these boards and how much it affects their decisions. I guess I consider bearcatnews more of a public square than a UC-only bar.

[BeastUC]

The internet and even "bad" publicity hasn't hurt Calapari or Pitino in recruiting,to name a couple.
I wonder why.....

[dgill2424]

Yeah thats the reason he hasn't committed. Come on now, you can't possibly believe that do you?

I dont know about Teague but he is right about Maxiells monther. She monitored these boards and contributed regularly. Doesnt it make sense??? If you were a recruit wouldnt you read these boards. How else can you follow a program?

[catscratchfever]

I don't think it affects recruiting as much as losing all the time, not being able to win on the road, and watching 5 star recuits come to UC and fall off the draft boards. That should have a bigger impact than we say on these forums.

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bearcat Jeff]

Yeah thats the reason he hasn't committed. Come on now, you can't possibly believe that do you?

Teague's father IS concerned over the negativity attached to the program as it relates to this coach. It is a major roadblock at this juncture. Teague loves Mick Cronin. He would like to play for him. Those are all facts. You may not want to believe it but it is true. Just as it was true in Huggs last seasons the negativity was a detriment to his recruiting. IT IS A FACT and those that deny it are kidding themselves. I personally think the Mods should do a better job filtering it and protecting the program.

[BeastUC]

I dont know about Teague but he is right about Maxiells monther. She monitored these boards and contributed regularly. Doesnt it make sense??? If you were a recruit wouldnt you read these boards. How else can you follow a program?

You can follow a program by watching their highlights on ESPN as they show the top 25 teams.But we don't have that problem now.
There's plenty of ways to follow a program and if the coach is a good enough recruiter,he doesn't have to worry about his recruits going to a message board as part of their decision.
I'm sure the UNC board and their whining about this season won't hurt UNC in recruiting.Even their 8-20 season didn't hurt them with coaches surely using that as a downwards spiral.
Rutgers even got a couple top 50 guys and nice recruiting class 2 years ago despite Fred Hill not doing anything coaching wise and their message boards being angry with Hill so fast.
Check out any message board after a loss or a bad season according to that teams fans and tell me if it's very positive.

[Bearcat Jeff]

You can follow a program by watching their highlights on ESPN as they show the top 25 teams.But we don't have that problem now.
There's plenty of ways to follow a program and if the coach is a good enough recruiter,he doesn't have to worry about his recruits going to a message board as part of their decision.
I'm sure the UNC board and their whining about this season won't hurt UNC in recruiting.Even their 8-20 season didn't hurt them with coaches surely using that as a downwards spiral.
Rutgers even got a couple top 50 guys and nice recruiting class 2 years ago despite Fred Hill not doing anything coaching wise and their message boards being angry with Hill so fast.
Check out any message board after a loss or a bad season according to that teams fans and tell me if it's very positive.

Why do some of you try to equate UNC, Memphis, UK, Indiana, Kentucky, with U.C.? They have a brandname that alone attracts talent. UC does not have that. What they did have was damaged by Huggs rep and destroyed by Nancy Zimpher. I'm fairly certain the UNC fans aren't calling for the firing of a future hall of fame coach. Yes there is a fring element associated with every program, but there is something very personal and bitter attached to the Mick Cronin situation here. He does not have the luxury of past final fours like a Calipari or of players going to the NBA. Vaughn is his first and only four year player in his tenure at UC. Again, let's debate facts with merit. Not blind opinions.

[westsidecat]

No,otherwise there would be plenty of firings,even during the season.
Recruits go where they want,where their parents want and or where the $$ is.

Most go where they feel comfortable,otherwise a cousin of mine would be committed to UC right now.
AD's don't use what's on message boards to fire coaches.Obviously.

NO, NO, NO!

You have to look no furthur then Vander Blue as the reason why he backed out of his commit to Whisky. He got on one of their boards and after reading what was said about him, decided to go to Marquette.

I just hope Teague's father realizes that there are just some really dumb people on here.

[cmm27]

I disagree about UC not having a brandname. I remember a Sports Illustrated article written in 2001 which polled the NCAA division 1 coaches at the time which teams they feared playing the most. The top four were: 1. Duke 2. Kentucky 3. North Carolina 4. Cincnnati. This time was well known nationally, well respected on the court and everybody knew that the C-Paw would be in the NCAA tournament every year. No other non-major school had a reputation like that, nor has a reputation like that now.

This university, and we as fans, deserve more than we are currently getting from a great basketball program.

[westsidecat]

Yeah thats the reason he hasn't committed. Come on now, you can't possibly believe that do you?

I do!

Hmmm, let's see what the fans are saying about the coach my son wants to go play for.

If you had a kid, don't you think you would take a little time and read some things that are being said about the person you are pretty much handing your son over too?

[BeastUC]

Why do some of you try to equate UNC, Memphis, UK, Indiana, Kentucky, with U.C.? They have a brandname that alone attracts talent. UC does not have that. What they did have was damaged by Huggs rep and destroyed by Nancy Zimpher. I'm fairly certain the UNC fans aren't calling for the firing of a future hall of fame coach. Yes there is a fring element associated with every program, but there is something very personal and bitter attached to the Mick Cronin situation here. He does not have the luxury of past final fours like a Calipari or of players going to the NBA. Vaughn is his first and only four year player in his tenure at UC. Again, let's debate facts with merit. Not blind opinions.

Didn't i also add Rutgers?I figured somebody would leave the response you did which is why i used another example,but i see you somehow missed that part.

I can use several other schools (NC State,Florida,Arkansas for example) that UC are based above according to some.
We're equating UC to Louisville and UK when talking about a potential recruit in this very thread,but that also was somehow left out.

[catsfan32]

I do!

Hmmm, let's see what the fans are saying about the coach my son wants to go play for.

If you had a kid, don't you think you would take a little time and read some things that are being said about the person you are pretty much handing your son over too?

Bingo, some fans just dont care about how they act and dont understand that as a member of this board, they are in fact representing UC. I sure hope they dont act like this in their professional lives because it would be very embarrassing.

[westsidecat]

Teague's father IS concerned over the negativity attached to the program as it relates to this coach. It is a major roadblock at this juncture. Teague loves Mick Cronin. He would like to play for him. Those are all facts. You may not want to believe it but it is true. Just as it was true in Huggs last seasons the negativity was a detriment to his recruiting. IT IS A FACT and those that deny it are kidding themselves. I personally think the Mods should do a better job filtering it and protecting the program.

Agree 100%.

When I see post left up making fun at Cronin height or whatever it makes me wonder why they are left up.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I disagree about UC not having a brandname. I remember a Sports Illustrated article written in 2001 which polled the NCAA division 1 coaches at the time which teams they feared playing the most. The top four were: 1. Duke 2. Kentucky 3. North Carolina 4. Cincnnati. This time was well known nationally, well respected on the court and everybody knew that the C-Paw would be in the NCAA tournament every year. No other non-major school had a reputation like that, nor has a reputation like that now.

This university, and we as fans, deserve more than we are currently getting from a great basketball program.

UC has never had the brand name of UNC, Duke, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, Indiana and the like. There is a big difference between being good for a period of time and being an established brand name. UNLV is a good example of this. Feared for a time but no brand name staying power. UC fits that category. You like some other Cincinnati fans think more highly of this program than was nationally. Even in Huggs best years the program was well liked regionally but never respected nationally.

[BeastUC]

NO, NO, NO!

You have to look no furthur then Vander Blue as the reason why he backed out of his commit to Whisky. He got on one of their boards and after reading what was said about him, decided to go to Marquette.

I just hope Teague's father realizes that there are just some really dumb people on here.

Oh really?So it had nothing to do with his friend going there already and his parents not wanting him to keep possibly changing his decision.
His friend is no longer at Marquette,and despite what's been said about Buzz Williams on message boards and beyond,he's still committed to Marquette.

Nice story tho,but you forgot to begin it with "once upon a time".

[westsidecat]

Bingo, some fans just dont care about how they act and dont understand that as a member of this board, they are in fact representing UC. I sure hope they dont act like this in their professional lives because it would be very embarrassing.

And it's a shame these people don't see it and they only come over here to put Cronin and his kids down.

It's becoming really hard to read these boards. Almost as bad as that cest pool called bearcat banter.

[BeastUC]

I do!

Hmmm, let's see what the fans are saying about the coach my son wants to go play for.

If you had a kid, don't you think you would take a little time and read some things that are being said about the person you are pretty much handing your son over too?

And how many of these people on message board actually attend games or will ever even speak to ones son in person?
Pitino has been called a baby killer all over message boards,but i see that hasn't stopped top recruits from going to UL.
Ernie Kent is said to be on his way out and can't coach all over Oregon and other Pac-10 boards,but it hasn't stopped him from getting top recruits.

[westsidecat]

Oh really?So it had nothing to do with his friend going there already and his parents not wanting him to keep possibly changing his decision.
His friend is no longer at Marquette,and despite what's been said about Buzz Williams on message boards and beyond,he's still committed to Marquette.

Nice story tho,but you forgot to begin it with "once upon a time".

Here's your once upon a time.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11776517

[DOOGINS]

Teague should sent his son to play for a loyal guy like Mick! I hope this negativity does not affect Mick but I am certain it does not help. I normally wouldn't waste my time on this nonsense but I watch a lot of other schools play, I think we are in much better hands than you anti-Mick folks know. IU in second year is no where near where we were in year 2. I believe the marketing dept should everything possible to make sure students show up for remaining games. That's a five point advantage. Maybe the students should get half priced concessions for one game.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Didn't i also add Rutgers?I figured somebody would leave the response you did which is why i used another example,but i see you somehow missed that part.

I can use several other schools (NC State,Florida,Arkansas for example) that UC are based above according to some.
We're equating UC to Louisville and UK when talking about a potential recruit in this very thread,but that also was somehow left out.

Rutgers is in the heart of recruiting rich New York and New Jersey. Florida two recent national championships. Arkansas I don't understand why you put them on here. NC State see Rutgers as far as recruiting rich territory goes. One thing all share with UC is good conferences.

[LongTimer]

UC has never had the brand name of UNC, Duke, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, Indiana and the like. There is a big difference between being good for a period of time and being an established brand name. UNLV is a good example of this. Feared for a time but no brand name staying power. UC fits that category. You like some other Cincinnati fans think more highly of this program than was nationally. Even in Huggs best years the program was well liked regionally but never respected nationally.

No brand name huh? Is that why Michael Jordan selected us as one of the 2 or 3 schools in the nation to wear his uniforms? Is that why our CPAW apparel was one of the top selling brands in the whole nation? Is our lack of brand the reason why "network" TV televised many of our games nationally and rarely were we on ESPNU or ESPN2? Yes a brand is established over time and our was well on the way to being one of the top brands, until the last 4 years set us way back and destroyed our brand!

[Bearcat Jeff]

Here's your once upon a time.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11776517

Don't throw facts out westside....some don't want to hear that.

[westsidecat]

Don't throw facts out westside....some don't want to hear that.

Yeah, I guess the quote was not by Vander but someone else. :confused:

[Bearcat Jeff]

No brand name huh? Is that why Michael Jordan selected us as one of the 2 or 3 schools in the nation to wear his uniforms? Is that why our CPAW apparel was one of the top selling brands in the whole nation? Is our lack of brand the reason why "network" TV televised many of our games nationally and rarely were we on ESPNU or ESPN2? Yes a brand is established over time and our was well on the way to being one of the top brands, until the last 4 years set us way back and destroyed our brand!

Longtimer you know it's true. It was a top selling brand because it closely resembled the Chicago Bulls uniforms. The tie was Nike and the school colors that resembled the Bulls. You know this.

[BeastUC]

Here's your once upon a time.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11776517

I love the name calling,very adult like.I've seen that same story and also heard what he said out of his own mouth on tv.
Again,key word here is "story".Notice he stuck with Buzz despite what Marquette fans said about him on message boards and how Buzz dismissed his friend.

[Former Lurker]

You like some other Cincinnati fans think more highly of this program than was nationally. Even in Huggs best years the program was well liked regionally but never respected nationally.

You have got to be kidding. This was a great program both before Jucker (the Big O), and before Huggs ( remember Catlett's teams with Miller & Cummings). In terms of its overall profile, it's most comparable to Louisville and Memphis, and above strong programs like Marquette, all of which would have to be major national programs under any reasonable definition.

[BeastUC]

Rutgers is in the heart of recruiting rich New York and New Jersey. Florida two recent national championships. Arkansas I don't understand why you put them on here. NC State see Rutgers as far as recruiting rich territory goes. One thing all share with UC is good conferences.

Seton Hall hasn't been getting these type of recruits despite being in the same conference as Rutgers and in the same area.
Florida,you proved my point that winning does more for recruiting than what people say on a message board about a coach.
Again,i used Arkansas and NC State since you wanted to use a weak argument that UC shouldn't be mentioned with UNC,UK,etc.
In fact,i guess we can write Teague off now since UK is after him and we're not in their league.

[UC84]

Teague's father IS concerned over the negativity attached to the program as it relates to this coach. It is a major roadblock at this juncture. Teague loves Mick Cronin. He would like to play for him. Those are all facts. You may not want to believe it but it is true. Just as it was true in Huggs last seasons the negativity was a detriment to his recruiting. IT IS A FACT and those that deny it are kidding themselves. I personally think the Mods should do a better job filtering it and protecting the program.

I have been reading this site for a long time now and can't understand for the life of me why the mods allow name calling of Coach Cronin and all the negativity that exists on this site to continue. It's not about censorship, but doing whats best for the program. By turning a blind eye, they are being as complicit to the negativity as those who propagate it. All of us want the program to succeed and reach the levels we expect, but it won't get there without everyone pulling in the same direction. Those who want to subterfuge the program have mutiple other outlets to persue this, namely sites of our chief rivals. Just the hint that this has affected recruiting should be enough for the mods to act. What do you lose by getting rid of those who are constantly negative? I hope they will and clean up this site, not just from posters calling each others names, but from the mean spirted cheap shots taken at our players and our coach. To the mods, PLEASE do right by the program and act NOW.

[Carin's Dad]

I dont know about Teague but he is right about Maxiells monther. She monitored these boards and contributed regularly. Doesnt it make sense??? If you were a recruit wouldnt you read these boards. How else can you follow a program?Why would anybody in their right mind believe anything they read on this board. We're just a bunch of couch-coach blowhards who don't really know anything. Most recruit's parents know this, I would think.

If they want real evidence of how a program is doing look at the W-L record and the attendance stats.

[Bearcat Jeff]

You have got to be kidding. This was a great program both before Jucker (the Big O), and before Huggs ( remember Catlett's teams with Miller & Cummings). In terms of its overall profile, it's most comparable to Louisville and Memphis, and above strong programs like Marquette, all of which would have to be major national programs under any reasonable definition.

Your missing the point!! There is good coffee out there but maybe it doesn't have the same clout as Starbucks. I can buy a good cup at Full Cup Cafe for $1.50 or one for $2.50 at Starbucks. Both may be Sumatrian coffee, both taste good, one has a higher brand name. Get it?

[LongTimer]

Teague's father IS concerned over the negativity attached to the program as it relates to this coach. It is a major roadblock at this juncture. Teague loves Mick Cronin. He would like to play for him. Those are all facts. You may not want to believe it but it is true. Just as it was true in Huggs last seasons the negativity was a detriment to his recruiting. IT IS A FACT and those that deny it are kidding themselves. I personally think the Mods should do a better job filtering it and protecting the program.

If Teague's father is concerned over negativity attached to the program, why not have his son sign with Mick and turn the negativity instantly into something very positive. Signing Teague would help Mick's case immensely. If they really love Mick as everyone says, why not show their love by committing now. If a recruit or his parents are interested in internet chat forums and using this as a deal breaker, then their intelligence has to be seriously questioned.

Also, if our athletic director knows today that there is zero chance that he will fire Mick Cronin, and he sits back and lets this negativity continue and build day by day, then he is pretty stupid himself. All he has to do is come out and say, "Listen fans, Mick is going nowhere. I think he has done an amazing job rebuilding this program. He is our coach for the next 5 years and has even earned a raise this year." Much of the negativity would probably die down. When people think there is a chance to get rid of someone, they will keep up the fight until it happens. It becomes a feeding frenzy. By Mike Thomas remaining quiet, he has made a bad situation worse. He also is giving the "Haters" hope that their words will eventually be heard and a change will be made. Shame on Mike Thomas if he has no intention to change coaches and lets this negativity continue. Maybe he should be fired!

[Bearcat Jeff]

If Teague's father is concerned over negativity attached to the program, why not have his son sign with Mick and turn the negativity instantly into something very positive. Signing Teague would help Mick's case immensely. If they really love Mick as everyone says, why not show their love by committing now. If a recruit or his parents are interested in internet chat forums and using this as a deal breaker, then their intelligence has to be seriously questioned.

Also, if our athletic director knows today that there is zero chance that he will fire Mick Cronin, and he sits back and lets this negativity continue and build day by day, then he is pretty stupid himself. All he has to do is come out and say, "Listen fans, Mick is going nowhere. I think he has done an amazing job rebuilding this program. He is our coach for the next 5 years and has even earned a raise this year." Much of the negativity would probably die down. When people think there is a chance to get rid of someone, they will keep up the fight until it happens. It becomes a feeding frenzy. By Mike Thomas remaining quiet, he has made a bad situation worse. He also is giving the "Haters" hope that their words will eventually be heard and a change will be made. Shame on Mike Thomas if he has no intention to change coaches and lets this negativity continue. Maybe he should be fired!

You are obviously a very intelligent gentleman and I enjoy your points of view. I always hope you'll turn your ability to wrap negativity in constructive wrappings into something useful.

[Carin's Dad]

Teague's father IS concerned over the negativity attached to the program as it relates to this coach. It is a major roadblock at this juncture. Teague loves Mick Cronin. He would like to play for him. Those are all facts. You may not want to believe it but it is true. Just as it was true in Huggs last seasons the negativity was a detriment to his recruiting. IT IS A FACT and those that deny it are kidding themselves. I personally think the Mods should do a better job filtering it and protecting the program.These aren't facts. They're unsubstantiated rumors. Show us a credible source saying this - newspaper, TV?

[UC84]

If Teague's father is concerned over negativity attached to the program, why not have his son sign with Mick and turn the negativity instantly into something very positive. Signing Teague would help Mick's case immensely. If they really love Mick as everyone says, why not show their love by committing now. If a recruit or his parents are interested in internet chat forums and using this as a deal breaker, then their intelligence has to be seriously questioned.

Also, if our athletic director knows today that there is zero chance that he will fire Mick Cronin, and he sits back and lets this negativity continue and build day by day, then he is pretty stupid himself. All he has to do is come out and say, "Listen fans, Mick is going nowhere. I think he has done an amazing job rebuilding this program. He is our coach for the next 5 years and has even earned a raise this year." Much of the negativity would probably die down. When people think there is a chance to get rid of someone, they will keep up the fight until it happens. It becomes a feeding frenzy. By Mike Thomas remaining quiet, he has made a bad situation worse. He also is giving the "Haters" hope that their words will eventually be heard and a change will be made. Shame on Mike Thomas if he has no intention to change coaches and lets this negativity continue. Maybe he should be fired!

Great post. Mike Thomas needs to come out and give support to Coach Cronin if he thinks he is the right man for the job. I think it would be worthwhile for those who support Coach Cronin to send this message to Mike Thomas. I know I will.

[LongTimer]

Longtimer you know it's true. It was a top selling brand because it closely resembled the Chicago Bulls uniforms. The tie was Nike and the school colors that resembled the Bulls. You know this.

Our uniforms were not remotely close to the Chicago Bulls. Why would I know something that isn't true? But, that's a pretty good one. I've heard a lot of people on here try to deny that we had a top program, but the Chicago Bulls connection is a new one! If you stay on here long enough, you'll hear every last fantasy excuse imagineable that either supports Mick, or bashes our former coach and program. Sorry, disagree with this one 120%.

[JGood]

No. People with an un biased view of the UC basketball program realizes the job cronin has done, the recruiting he has done and can see he is under contract for 4 more years right now. Micks rep nationwide is not a bad one, fact is UC is in the hardest conference to finish at the top and has some of the best players in the nation littered throughout.

people make judgements based on fact, not what some knucklehead wrote on a "fan forum" because he's mad bob huggins got fired. People on here actually said cronin cant coach because he is short, he cant motivate young kids because he is bald. People on here say Cronin knows NOTHING about coaching yet he coached under a couple of the best. If a recruit makes a decision based of what a "fan" says then i hope he goes to another school because he obviously isnt smart enough to make his own evaluation and decision based on his views and not what an uneducated fan said because he thinks cronin looks like leprechaun.

in the words of keyshaun, Come on Man.

[Bearcat Jeff]

They are facts. I have some knowledge of the situation. If that's not good enough we'll just have to agree to disagree. My record of recruit predictions is pretty good because of this. If it's not good enough I certainly understand that.

[Carin's Dad]

NO, NO, NO!

You have to look no furthur then Vander Blue as the reason why he backed out of his commit to Whisky. He got on one of their boards and after reading what was said about him, decided to go to Marquette.

I just hope Teague's father realizes that there are just some really dumb people on here.NOT, NOT, NOT a good example! The negativity was directed at the recruit, not at the program nor the coach.

As far as I can tell, we don't see any recruit bashing on here (except for some of you who went after Yancy).

Bring us an example where the recruit was dissuaded by things said about the coach.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Our uniforms were not remotely close to the Chicago Bulls. Why would I know something that isn't true? But, that's a pretty good one. I've heard a lot of people on here try to deny that we had a top program, but the Chicago Bulls connection is a new one! If you stay on here long enough, you'll hear every last fantasy excuse imagineable that either supports Mick, or bashes our former coach and program. Sorry, disagree with this one 120%.

You may need to look at the Bulls colors and UC's again. As far as supporting Mick I think I've already said we need to change so you have zero credibility there. Unlike you I speak honestly and openly. I have no hidden agenda. And what I said was true.

[MI Bearcat]

UC has never had the brand name of UNC, Duke, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, Indiana and the like. There is a big difference between being good for a period of time and being an established brand name. UNLV is a good example of this. Feared for a time but no brand name staying power. UC fits that category. You like some other Cincinnati fans think more highly of this program than was nationally. Even in Huggs best years the program was well liked regionally but never respected nationally.

That's comical. Cincinnati was THE school in the early 60's until a VERY GOOD COACH came along at UCLA and took that title away. Huggins came in and quickly brought Cincinnati back to national prominence (not regional prominence). With the process of thinking of many here, Matt Doherty would still be coach at UNC. Wonder what there national reputation would currently be?

If a recruit follows this board and decides to not go to UC, it won't be because of the negative posts. It will be because they agreed with the negative posts.

[LongTimer]

You may need to look at the Bulls colors and UC's again. As far as supporting Mick I think I've already said we need to change so you have zero credibility there. Unlike you I speak honestly and openly. I have no hidden agenda. And what I said was true.

Once again, there is zero resemblence between the Chicago Bulls uniform and our Jordan Brand uniform.

Honestly, I have no idea where you stand on Mick because you've changed so many times. As far as me, I go to every game and cheer the team on as I have always done. My hidden agenda....just win baby! That's it. I support Mick as our coach forever, as long as we go back to a mid-major conference where he can compete. He has proven to be a good coach in that environment. If we're going to stay in this league, let's get a coach in here who can compete with the best! Honestly, I can take either direction. He hasn't recruited any shooters. He hasn't recruited guys who bust their a$$es. He hasn't recruited intelligent players. He hasn't recruited much speed. You can't win in the Big East recruiting like that....and we aren't!

[oldcat48]

In fact,i guess we can write Teague off now since UK is after him and we're not in their league.

No, but maybe we can write him off because he or his dad thinks the coach is out the door this year or next thanks to what they read here.

And you know, the guys who post that they and a bunch of people around them aren't going to renew, geez man, then don't. Vote with your feet, but know you're making a lifetime decision to give up those seats if you do. Your foreclosure will be someone else's steal.

[LongTimer]

That's comical. Cincinnati was THE school in the early 60's until a VERY GOOD COACH came along at UCLA and took that title away. Huggins came in and quickly brought Cincinnati back to national prominence (not regional prominence). With the process of thinking of many here, Matt Doherty would still be coach at UNC. Wonder what there national reputation would currently be?

If a recruit follows this board and decides to not go to UC, it won't be because of the negative posts. It will be because they agreed with the negative posts.

Outstanding point about Matt Doherty. That is a great example of a school that didn't hang long with a former beloved player who returned as coach and just didn't have it. They cut the ties quickly and how many national titles have they won after doing that? Good post!

[Bearcat Jeff]

Once again, there is zero resemblence between the Chicago Bulls uniform and our Jordan Brand uniform.

Honestly, I have no idea where you stand on Mick because you've changed so many times. As far as me, I go to every game and cheer the team on as I have always done. My hidden agenda....just win baby! That's it. I support Mick as our coach forever, as long as we go back to a mid-major conference where he can compete. He has proven to be a good coach in that environment. If we're going to stay in this league, let's get a coach in here who can compete with the best! Honestly, I can take either direction. He hasn't recruited any shooters. He hasn't recruited guys who bust their a$$es. He hasn't recruited intelligent players. He hasn't recruited much speed. You can't win in the Big East recruiting like that....and we aren't!

Bull$hit!! I have NEVER changed on Mick. Said at the end of last season this was his season. All I try to do be objective. You and others like you will not admit ANY good that has been done and that's wrong. I want a new coach after the season ends. I still can acknowledge the man has done some good things under harsh circumstances. I loved Huggs but I can acknowledge he won but did some things that hurt the university. The difference between us is you're a child who is laying on the ground kicking and screaming. I look at things realistically and give credit where credit is due and am critical when warranted. I still believe you and Ralph are alter egos.

[BeastUC]

No, but maybe we can write him off because he or his dad thinks the coach is out the door this year or next thanks to what they read here.

And you know, the guys who post that they and a bunch of people around them aren't going to renew, geez man, then don't. Vote with your feet, but know you're making a lifetime decision to give up those seats if you do. Your foreclosure will be someone else's steal.

Did you see who else is recruiting him?
UK with all the Calapari is a cheat all over internet message boards.
UL with all the Pitino is an unfaithful baby killer all over internet message boards.
IU with all the Tom Crean is out cuz he can't get it done on message boards.

Let's see where he ends up.If not at UC,let's see if it's one of the above.

As for people not renewing:if some feel the coach and the players gave up,then they shouldn't be talked about for doing the same and using their hard earned money for a more entertaining product.

[Grimdogg]

I'm back!

First off, do I think the internet affects a kids decision on where to go? It might but I hope parents and potential players can realize that there are many uninformed fans for every college program nationwide who say the wrong things about their program and the school.

I also think that student athletes and parents should be able to see that the positive things said about Mick are based more in fact and reality than in the fantasy world of some that are on here or on other boards and make an educated decision based on this.

I also hope that parents and recruits realize that although there are many negative comments about Mick going on right now that it shows the fan base wants this program to regain it's national prominence in the hardest conference in the country. I would much rather have my kid playing in the BEAST for UC and playing top notch competition for the majority of the season, than in the WCC for Gonzaga playing mediocre teams which wouldn't help my son develop as a player.

And finally I will agree with LongTimer on one thing (God help me that that just came out of me). Mike Thomas needs to step up right now and say "Mick is going to be here for the next 2 years. He inherited a program that was 6 years out of becoming national contenders when he came here so at the very minimum Mick is the guy for the next 2 years because of the 2 year recruiting gap."

[blazerball]

Once again, there is zero resemblence between the Chicago Bulls uniform and our Jordan Brand uniform.

Honestly, I have no idea where you stand on Mick because you've changed so many times. As far as me, I go to every game and cheer the team on as I have always done. My hidden agenda....just win baby! That's it. I support Mick as our coach forever, as long as we go back to a mid-major conference where he can compete. He has proven to be a good coach in that environment. If we're going to stay in this league, let's get a coach in here who can compete with the best! Honestly, I can take either direction. He hasn't recruited any shooters. He hasn't recruited guys who bust their a$$es. He hasn't recruited intelligent players. He hasn't recruited much speed. You can't win in the Big East recruiting like that....and we aren't!

Longtimer.. This is where you are absolutely correct.
1. He hasn't recruited shooters.
2. He hasn't recruited guys who bust ***.
3. He hasn't recruited intelligent players.

With that being said Mick has been working behind the eight ball since he
got the job. I sense he knows that he needs to recruit shooters or guys who can flat out score. If that means that the recruit is not as athletic as you like or that their are some limitations in their game, than so be it. You can't win reguarly in any league shooting the percentage that UC has in Micks tenure. Syracuse has lost 1 game this year because of 1 amazing statistic. They shoot it at a 53 percent a game clip. You find players that can put the ball in the hole reguarly, and at a good percentage, all of a sudden your 27-5and playing for something. Micks emphasis needs to be on this..

[westsidecat]

NOT, NOT, NOT a good example! The negativity was directed at the recruit, not at the program nor the coach.

As far as I can tell, we don't see any recruit bashing on here (except for some of you who went after Yancy).

Bring us an example where the recruit was dissuaded by things said about the coach.

No, this thread was started based on if comments can hurt a program. I would say losing a recruit based on comments on a message board is hurting the program.

You, and others, need to stop twisting words to make it seem like you're correct all the time.

[westsidecat]

I love the name calling,very adult like.I've seen that same story and also heard what he said out of his own mouth on tv.
Again,key word here is "story".Notice he stuck with Buzz despite what Marquette fans said about him on message boards and how Buzz dismissed his friend.

Get snooty with me, I will get snotty back.

Again, you said it had nothing to do with comments on a message board. I show you proof that it did, yet you still want to argue that you are right.

Whatever.

[MI Bearcat]

Longtimer.. This is where you are absolutely correct.
1. He hasn't recruited shooters.
2. He hasn't recruited guys who bust ***.
3. He hasn't recruited intelligent players.

With that being said Mick has been working behind the eight ball since he
got the job. I sense he knows that he needs to recruit shooters or guys who can flat out score. If that means that the recruit is not as athletic as you like or that their are some limitations in their game, than so be it. You can't win reguarly in any league shooting the percentage that UC has in Micks tenure. Syracuse has lost 1 game this year because of 1 amazing statistic. They shoot it at a 53 percent a game clip. You find players that can put the ball in the hole reguarly, and at a good percentage, all of a sudden your 27-5and playing for something. Micks emphasis needs to be on this..

You can recruit all the shooters you want. If there is chaos on the floor they are not going to shoot well. A coaches job is to teach the players how to get open, to have some semblance of an offense that puts the players in a position to succeed. Unless your Kobe Bryant, your not going to be making fall way shots with a hand in your face as the shot clock expires. There weren't many options in past years so Vaughn new what he had to do and shot well. With more options this year, nobody seams to know what there role on the team is and it's chaos. I'm sure Mick knows a lot about the x's and o's of basketball, but he doesn't seem to be able to transfer that knowledge to his players. I don't have the answers as to why, but I have not seen anything that leads me to believe he is going to be able to figure it out if given another year.

[cincyfan81]

Teague's father IS concerned over the negativity attached to the program as it relates to this coach. It is a major roadblock at this juncture. Teague loves Mick Cronin. He would like to play for him. Those are all facts. You may not want to believe it but it is true. Just as it was true in Huggs last seasons the negativity was a detriment to his recruiting. IT IS A FACT and those that deny it are kidding themselves. I personally think the Mods should do a better job filtering it and protecting the program.

Yes lets put only the positive posts up and Teague will sign here for sure. It has nothing to do with winning, player development, getting into the tournament. This is crazy to me. Some of you guys put way to much stock into Bearcat News. I promise you Bearcat News has zero impact on whether or not Teague comes to UC.

[beacon_of_power]

You know something, I cannot stand by and watch people bad mouth Coach Huggins anymore. You all have lost your minds. We were fortunate enough to witness one of the best college basketball coaches of the decade for 13 years and it goes beyond reason how some can criticize what he brought to the city. True, not everyone approved of his methods, but he made our program elite in a short time. You would think that the past 4 years of "wheel spinning" would teach some to realize how good we had it. Just plain unbelievable.

[BlueCat]

You know something, I cannot stand by and watch people bad mouth Coach Huggins anymore. You all have lost your minds. We were fortunate enough to witness one of the best college basketball coaches of the decade for 13 years and it goes beyond reason how some can criticize what he brought to the city. True, not everyone approved of his methods, but he made our program elite in a short time. You would think that the past 4 years of "wheel spinning" would teach some to realize how good we had it. Just plain unbelievable.

Some just don't like the taste of what they received after they asked for change..............

[Lobot]

Yeah thats the reason he hasn't committed. Come on now, you can't possibly believe that do you?

I'm not sure I believe or not. However both Shaun and myself received private emails from Todd Cunningham at BCL asking us to help cut down the negative chatter re: Mick because of Teague specifically. Todd's source came from within the AD's office.

[westsidecat]

You know something, I cannot stand by and watch people bad mouth Coach Huggins anymore. You all have lost your minds. We were fortunate enough to witness one of the best college basketball coaches of the decade for 13 years and it goes beyond reason how some can criticize what he brought to the city. True, not everyone approved of his methods, but he made our program elite in a short time. You would think that the past 4 years of "wheel spinning" would teach some to realize how good we had it. Just plain unbelievable.

Right, it was soooooooooooo great when he was here!

Every year it was, who will we lose to in the second round, who will get arrested, how drunk is bob, will he put us on probation again,ect, ect, ect.

It makes me sad that people don't realize how much better we are as program now that he is gone.

The same "issues" he had here are going on at WVU. He is not gods gift to basketball like some UC fans make him out to be. In fact, he's a disgrace to the game.

[jlr1523]

Does the internet affect a coach's career?

No .

[carolinacatfan]

Right, it was soooooooooooo great when he was here!

Every year it was, who will we lose to in the second round, who will get arrested, how drunk is bob, will he put us on probation again,ect, ect, ect.

It makes me sad that people don't realize how much better we are as program now that he is gone.

The same "issues" he had here are going on at WVU. He is not gods gift to basketball like some UC fans make him out to be. In fact, he's a disgrace to the game.

Are these remarks that are constantly made on this board meant to be taken seriously?:confused: Let's actually break down this statement.
Side 1) Your team makes the NCAA tourney every year with occasional sweet 16 and elite 8 appearances along with I believe 8 second or first round exits in 13 years.
Side 2) Haven't made an NCAA tourney since. HUH????? Which is better??? Are you serious?

Also, anyone who doesn't realize that UC was quickly becoming a national brand wasn't awake for most of the 90's. Several SI covers, Dickie V in Cincy on several occasions even to cover midnight madness. Constant mention on ESPN, almost automatic preseason top 20 rankings. Nobody is in the class with UNC, UK, UCLA, Kansas etc. They are alone at the top but UC was mentioned with and right behind them. We as fans should expect them to be there again.
Also it's not okay to post negative about a coach but okay to down the program status and say it's not that good in order to defend the underachieving of said coach. Makes a lot of sense. Our coach just can't succeed because our program is substandard. STRONG!

[westsidecat]

Are these remarks that are constantly made on this board meant to be taken seriously?:confused: Let's actually break down this statement.
Side 1) Your team makes the NCAA tourney every year with occasional sweet 16 and elite 8 appearances along with I believe 8 second or first round exits in 13 years.
Side 2) Haven't made an NCAA tourney since. HUH????? Which is better??? Are you serious?

Also, anyone who doesn't realize that UC was quickly becoming a national brand wasn't awake for most of the 90's. Several SI covers, Dickie V in Cincy on several occasions even to cover midnight madness. Constant mention on ESPN, almost automatic preseason top 20 rankings. Nobody is in the class with UNC, UK, UCLA, Kansas etc. They are alone at the top but UC was mentioned with and right behind them. We as fans should expect them to be there again.
Also it's not okay to post negative about a coach but okay to down the program status and say it's not that good in order to defend the underachieving of said coach. Makes a lot of sense. Our coach just can't succeed because our program is substandard. STRONG!

So winning is the only thing a coach should be held accountable for? Forget everything else? Sorry. Coaching is more then winning ball games in a mid-major confrence.

[dgill2424]

That's comical. Cincinnati was THE school in the early 60's until a VERY GOOD COACH came along at UCLA and took that title away. Huggins came in and quickly brought Cincinnati back to national prominence (not regional prominence). With the process of thinking of many here, Matt Doherty would still be coach at UNC. Wonder what there national reputation would currently be?


Believe it or not, UC didnt have a strong national reputation while Huggins was here. Dont get me wrong, we were respected as a top 25 program but nothing more. A lot of people outside of Ohio thoght we were overrated.

[weez1414]

Will someone please show me facts on Teague and him wanting to play for Mick and why. Does this Kid not have Cable television or internet?

[Carin's Dad]

No, this thread was started based on if comments can hurt a program. I would say losing a recruit based on comments on a message board is hurting the program.

You, and others, need to stop twisting words to make it seem like you're correct all the time.I'll grant you that in that case comments on the internet may have hurt a program (not very much though - they are ranked #11!)

My point is that with all the other bits of information bombarding 5 star recruits, negative comments about a coach on a fan web site are probably pretty far down the list of decision influences. I guarantee that if Teague does not come to UC, comments on here won't be the main reason.

Coaches do not need to be loved by the fans - they just need to win games and have a positive influence on young men's lives.

[CincyEngGrad02]

Right, it was soooooooooooo great when he was here!

Every year it was, who will we lose to in the second round, who will get arrested, how drunk is bob, will he put us on probation again,ect, ect, ect.

It makes me sad that people don't realize how much better we are as program now that he is gone.

The same "issues" he had here are going on at WVU. He is not gods gift to basketball like some UC fans make him out to be. In fact, he's a disgrace to the game.

1. I'd think most people would LOVE to lose in the 2nd round right about now. Better than losing in the 1st round of the CBI, wouldn't you (and anyone with an IQ over 50) agree?

2. Yes, people getting arrested was a problem. Although how do you pin the problem on Huggins? Roy Bright?! Who the heck saw that one coming? If anybody, I would have picked Hicks (who everybody loves by the way) to get caught walking around campus with a gun. Hicks did get shot at one time, and I doubt he was sitting in his kitchen reading his bible and drinking lemonade when it happened.

3. I couldn't care less how drunk Bob got. If drinking leads to 13 consecutive trips to the NCAA, then I'd say drink up!

4. Probation was the furthest thing from people's minds.

But life today for a bearcat basketball fan....talk about good times.

[MDW79]

So winning is the only thing a coach should be held accountable for? Forget everything else? Sorry. Coaching is more then winning ball games in a mid-major confrence.

That was far from a mid major conference. UC, Louisville, Memphis and Marquette were all routinely ranked. Name ONE other mid major conference that exists that will produce teams of that caliber. CUSA also produced more tourney teams in a given field than 2 or 3 BCS counterparts the last few years in it's existance. If you don't like the former coach, fine. I can't stand when people throw out utter bs to belittle the man. He is 4th in wins among active coaches. Upon his departure I believe UC was 3rd or 4th in consecutive tourney appearances. (Behind AZ and KU, tied with KY?) Funny, some people back Mick for simply failing in the BE (that's a success b/c it's BE) but refuse to give the former coach any credit and revert to throwing out "2nd round loss" and "CUSA" as their only basis that he was bad coach. I get if people didn't like him for other reasons but when this drivel is used to back up an obvious bias, people sound idiotic. Mid major? What a joke. :mad:

[UC84]

That was far from a mid major conference. UC, Louisville, Memphis and Marquette were all routinely ranked. Name ONE other mid major conference that exists that will produce teams of that caliber. CUSA also produced more tourney teams in a given field than 2 or 3 BCS counterparts the last few years in it's existance. If you don't like the former coach, fine. I can't stand when people throw out utter bs to belittle the man. He is 4th in wins among active coaches. Upon his departure I believe UC was 3rd or 4th in consecutive tourney appearances. (Behind AZ and KU, tied with KY?) Funny, some people back Mick for simply failing in the BE (that's a success b/c it's BE) but refuse to give the former coach any credit and revert to throwing out "2nd round loss" and "CUSA" as their only basis that he was bad coach. I get if people didn't like him for other reasons but when this drivel is used to back up an obvious bias, people sound idiotic. Mid major? What a joke. :mad:

Agreed that Bob Huggins was great coach during his time here. But you also have to agree that in totality, CUSA was not a great conference. The middle to bottom were poor teams, but the top was really good. For our fanbase, its well past time to get over Huggins departure, and there is no reason for either party (those who dislike him and those who like him) to keep bringing him up. He now coaches for a rival school and should be treated like any other coach in the Big East.

[Ran513]

this board has become an absolute waste of time.i feel like the mods need to evaluate the problem,or problems and remove it.really how bad does it have to get. none of these jokes would utter half the crap spewed here to any persons face. and for the record no one in the university owes any of us $hit regardless if you buy tickets , donate or whatever.you dont like what u see, stop looking. just stop saying the same tired crap after every game, we get it.

[westsidecat]

That was far from a mid major conference. UC, Louisville, Memphis and Marquette were all routinely ranked. Name ONE other mid major conference that exists that will produce teams of that caliber. CUSA also produced more tourney teams in a given field than 2 or 3 BCS counterparts the last few years in it's existance. If you don't like the former coach, fine. I can't stand when people throw out utter bs to belittle the man. He is 4th in wins among active coaches. Upon his departure I believe UC was 3rd or 4th in consecutive tourney appearances. (Behind AZ and KU, tied with KY?) Funny, some people back Mick for simply failing in the BE (that's a success b/c it's BE) but refuse to give the former coach any credit and revert to throwing out "2nd round loss" and "CUSA" as their only basis that he was bad coach. I get if people didn't like him for other reasons but when this drivel is used to back up an obvious bias, people sound idiotic. Mid major? What a joke. :mad:

Have you been watching basketball this year? The MWC has three teams in the top 25. The A-10 could send as many as 5 schools to the tourney.

And in case you forgot, C-USA was not the only mid-major we played in during the Huggins era. It's just not C-USA. Do you want to go back and look at all the power houses that were in those confrences?

Come back when you don't sound so idiotic and realize that it's just not C-USA.

[Rational Cat]

Yes, certainly it can, as well as affect a program; we are seeing that here now.

It is instant feedback, and is valuable information to all parties concerned. If I worked for UC, I'd have people monitoring this site all the time, gauging the pulse of our most rabid fans. Folks who do not care do not come here- only those with an emotional investment in the program come here, either to celebrate, talk, or gripe. Apathy doesn't show up at a place like this. Apathy doesn't show up at all...

It is also here to stay; there is no going backwards.

What can be done to improve things on internet message boards? Mandatory true names, addresses and phone numbers of folks who want to participate in message boards or newspaper reply forums (and you think this place is rough??). That will cause folks to think twice before they speak, just like they do when they know a camera is on them in public. Yeah I know, it'll never happen- but at least true names will make a huge difference in the quality of posting.

[MDW79]

Have you been watching basketball this year? The MWC has three teams in the top 25. The A-10 could send as many as 5 schools to the tourney.

And in case you forgot, C-USA was not the only mid-major we played in during the Huggins era. It's just not C-USA. Do you want to go back and look at all the power houses that were in those confrences?

Come back when you don't sound so idiotic and realize that it's just not C-USA.

How many ranked schools does the A-10 have again? Do they have one team that has a chance of winning it all? Do they ever? No. How often does the MWC have 3 ranked teams? Year in year out? Name the last school from either MWC or A-10 to make a final four. That would be UNLV. Name a school outside of X, in the those two conferences, that's made an elite 8 recently. Name the amount of NBA players that have come out of those conferences. Do you realize when your poorly try to take shots at Huggins, you're diminishing our former players and those teams? You wont answer any of the above questions, b/c those examples do not come close to comparing to CUSA or the Great Midwest.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Yes lets put only the positive posts up and Teague will sign here for sure. It has nothing to do with winning, player development, getting into the tournament. This is crazy to me. Some of you guys put way to much stock into Bearcat News. I promise you Bearcat News has zero impact on whether or not Teague comes to UC.

I never said he signed for sure. I am telling you straight out of the father's mouth it is a concern. Take that for what it is worth. He is very concerned about his son playing in an environment where negativity surrounds the coach and program. People on here don't have to believe that but it doesn't make it any less true. It may even be true that in most instances it doesn't affect things but in this one it is a legit concern for the Teague's.

[Bearcat Jeff]

How many ranked schools does the A-10 have again? Do they have one team that has a chance of winning it all? Do they ever? No. How often does the MWC have 3 ranked teams? Year in year out? Name the last school from either MWC or A-10 to make a final four. That would be UNLV. Name a school outside of X, in the those two conferences, that's made an elite 8 recently. Name the amount of NBA players that have come out of those conferences. Do you realize when your poorly try to take shots at Huggins, you're diminishing our former players and those teams? You wont answer any of the above questions, b/c those examples do not come close to comparing to CUSA or the Great Midwest.

Bob Huggins himself said on the Jim Rome show two weeks ago that CUSA was no where near the BEast. He said they were a few good teams but no where near the grind of the BEast. It's not putting down the former players it is simply the truth.

[bearcatjoey]

I'm not sure I believe or not. However both Shaun and myself received private emails from Todd Cunningham at BCL asking us to help cut down the negative chatter re: Mick because of Teague specifically. Todd's source came from within the AD's office.

Todd is Mick's biggest fan.

[MDW79]

Bob Huggins himself said on the Jim Rome show two weeks ago that CUSA was no where near the BEast. He said they were a few good teams but no where near the grind of the BEast. It's not putting down the former players it is simply the truth.

I never said it was near the BE. Nobody ever claims that. Myself, and many others, get frustrated when it's treated if we played in the A10. It's bs. Of course it wasnt the BE but it was not a joke league. Look at the bids from that conference and, most importantly, look at the seedings the big 4 drew. Calling it a mid major does put down the program and the former players IMO.

[Bearcat Jeff]

You know something, I cannot stand by and watch people bad mouth Coach Huggins anymore. You all have lost your minds. We were fortunate enough to witness one of the best college basketball coaches of the decade for 13 years and it goes beyond reason how some can criticize what he brought to the city. True, not everyone approved of his methods, but he made our program elite in a short time. You would think that the past 4 years of "wheel spinning" would teach some to realize how good we had it. Just plain unbelievable.

Bob Huggins is a very good coach. UC was never Elite during the Huggins years!! No national titles in 16 years here and 1 final four. Stop overstating where the program was!! It was very good not Elite! Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina and UConn were elite. They all won 2 titles during that time frame.
Kansas and Michigan St. was a notch below with 4 and 3 final fours respectively. You could throw Maryland, Arizona, Syracuse, Illinois, and Michigan in there as well as teams with more final four appearances and titles. UC was a perrenial top 25 team that never beat a higher seed in the NCAA under Huggins. They had some very good teams he was and is a very good coach. Some of you think he is a basketball God and that's simply not true.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I never said it was near the BE. Nobody ever claims that. Myself, and many others, get frustrated when it's treated if we played in the A10. It's bs. Of course it wasnt the BE but it was not a joke league. Look at the bids from that conference and, most importantly, look at the seedings the big 4 drew. Calling it a mid major does put down the program and the former players IMO.

That I can live with.

[BearcatAlum1]

Bob Huggins is a very good coach. UC was never Elite during the Huggins years!! No national titles in 16 years here and 1 final four. Stop overstating where the program was!! It was very good not Elite! Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina and UConn were elite. They all won 2 titles during that time frame.
Kansas and Michigan St. was a notch below with 4 and 3 final fours respectively. You could throw Maryland, Arizona, Syracuse, Illinois, and Michigan in there as well as teams with more final four appearances and titles. UC was a perrenial top 25 team that never beat a higher seed in the NCAA under Huggins. They had some very good teams he was and is a very good coach. Some of you think he is a basketball God and that's simply not true.

Once again, I agree with your post.

Cronin deserves his time. He has improved wins every year. This season isn't over.

He may be on the proverbial "hot seat" after this season, but it WILL NOT help our program to can him after this season, IMO.

[Carin's Dad]

I never said it was near the BE. Nobody ever claims that. Myself, and many others, get frustrated when it's treated if we played in the A10. It's bs. Of course it wasnt the BE but it was not a joke league. Look at the bids from that conference and, most importantly, look at the seedings the big 4 drew. Calling it a mid major does put down the program and the former players IMO.I have to support you on this.

2003 -- CUSA, ACC, Big East - 4 teams each
2004 -- Cusa, ACC, Big East, SEC - 6 teams each
2005 -- CUsa, Pac 10 - 4 teams each.

[Former Lurker]

Bob Huggins is a very good coach. UC was never Elite during the Huggins years!! No national titles in 16 years here and 1 final four. Stop overstating where the program was!! It was very good not Elite! Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina and UConn were elite. They all won 2 titles during that time frame.
Kansas and Michigan St. was a notch below with 4 and 3 final fours respectively. You could throw Maryland, Arizona, Syracuse, Illinois, and Michigan in there as well as teams with more final four appearances and titles. UC was a perrenial top 25 team that never beat a higher seed in the NCAA under Huggins. They had some very good teams he was and is a very good coach. Some of you think he is a basketball God and that's simply not true.

You're just talking about the tournament. There was and still is, for now, a regular season played first each year. While Huggs had his problems as a tournament coach, his teams spent a lot of time ranked in not just the Top 25, but the Top 10.

I count five finishes in the AP Top 10 from '93 to '04.

[levydl]

That's comical. Cincinnati was THE school in the early 60's until a VERY GOOD COACH came along at UCLA and took that title away. Huggins came in and quickly brought Cincinnati back to national prominence (not regional prominence). With the process of thinking of many here, Matt Doherty would still be coach at UNC. Wonder what there national reputation would currently be?

If a recruit follows this board and decides to not go to UC, it won't be because of the negative posts. It will be because they agreed with the negative posts.

Give me a break. UNC fired Doherty to hire Roy Williams. If Roy Williams, or someone of his caliber, is willing to come to UC, fire Cronin right now and go get him. You want to throw a name out there?

Also, the players basically revolted against Doherty, which was one of the main reasons he was out. And the athletic dept. and school as a whole weren't drowning in debt. It's a terrible comparison/analogy.

[Lobot]

Yes, certainly it can, as well as affect a program; we are seeing that here now.

It is instant feedback, and is valuable information to all parties concerned. If I worked for UC, I'd have people monitoring this site all the time, gauging the pulse of our most rabid fans. Folks who do not care do not come here- only those with an emotional investment in the program come here, either to celebrate, talk, or gripe. Apathy doesn't show up at a place like this. Apathy doesn't show up at all...

It is also here to stay; there is no going backwards.

What can be done to improve things on internet message boards? Mandatory true names, addresses and phone numbers of folks who want to participate in message boards or newspaper reply forums (and you think this place is rough??). That will cause folks to think twice before they speak, just like they do when they know a camera is on them in public. Yeah I know, it'll never happen- but at least true names will make a huge difference in the quality of posting.

Actually I'm all for some of that. I would prefer everyone put their real name in their signature. I do it and always have. When this was an email distribution list years ago everyone knew what email address you posted from. As far as addresses and phone numbers, there's a serious privacy issue there.

I think more transparency would do the board some good. IMHO.

[Lobot]

Give me a break. UNC fired Doherty to hire Roy Williams. If Roy Williams, or someone of his caliber, is willing to come to UC, fire Cronin right now and go get him. You want to throw a name out there?

Also, the players basically revolted against Doherty, which was one of the main reasons he was out. And the athletic dept. and school as a whole weren't drowning in debt. It's a terrible comparison/analogy.

A) if you have name to throw out there that is the quality of Roy W. then throw it.

B) You're assuming that the players aren't revolting against Cronin. I can't prove that they are but you can't prove that they aren't.

[LongTimer]

I'm not sure I believe or not. However both Shaun and myself received private emails from Todd Cunningham at BCL asking us to help cut down the negative chatter re: Mick because of Teague specifically. Todd's source came from within the AD's office.

Once again, it's funny that the source comes from within the ADs office. The AD holds the power to stop a lot of the negativity by just coming out and saying there is zero chance Mick is leaving. By him staying quiet, he just allows everyone to assume Mick is possibly in trouble and then everyone piles on!

[levydl]

A) if you have name to throw out there that is the quality of Roy W. then throw it.

B) You're assuming that the players aren't revolting against Cronin. I can't prove that they are but you can't prove that they aren't.

A) Umm, that's my point. UNC didn't fire Doherty to hire an assistant or some up and coming mid major head coach, which is who I think UC would be left looking to. UNC had the option to get one of the top coaches in the country. He was a sure thing. UC can't do anything like that.

B) Unlike UNC under Doherty, none of Cronin's players have transferred out because they're dissatisfied with Cronin. As far as I know, none have gone to the AD to complain about him, as they did with Doherty. No one's reported anything about players revolting.

My point was, our situation isn't at all like UNC's. The school and athletic department have no money. They hired Cronin to build it back and knew it would take time. There's almost no way to change course at this point. UNC faced none of this. And I still haven't heard of an real coaching option that would be demonstrably better than Cronin. UC needs Cronin to do well, or it could be a while as a mediocre to bad team in a ridiculous conference.

[LongTimer]

A) Umm, that's my point. UNC didn't fire Doherty to hire an assistant or some up and coming mid major head coach, which is who I think UC would be left looking to. UNC had the option to get one of the top coaches in the country. He was a sure thing. UC can't do anything like that.

B) Unlike UNC under Doherty, none of Cronin's players have transferred out because they're dissatisfied with Cronin. As far as I know, none have gone to the AD to complain about him, as they did with Doherty. No one's reported anything about players revolting.

My point was, our situation isn't at all like UNC's. The school and athletic department have no money. They hired Cronin to build it back and knew it would take time. There's almost no way to change course at this point. UNC faced none of this. And I still haven't heard of an real coaching option that would be demonstrably better than Cronin. UC needs Cronin to do well, or it could be a while as a mediocre to bad team in a ridiculous conference.

As I have said before, if we can't afford to be in the Big East, then lets go back to a mid major league where we can compete. To come into the Big East and then start this "we're in debt" stuff and "we spend a lot less than other Big East schools", is just BS. I understand that it has helped football a lot, but it has slowly destroyed basketball. We're so poor that we have to hang on to a bad coach forever? That's sad. I agree that we badly need Mick to succeed, but he doesn't appear capable of doing so. We can't honestly expect next year to be any better. Just think about how negative everything will be if one year from now we are sitting here in 9th or 10th place in the Big East again. I think that is where we are headed based on who will probably be leaving and the fact that we only have a couple 3-star recruits coming in.....and still "NO SHOOTERS"!

[levydl]

Once again, it's funny that the source comes from within the ADs office. The AD holds the power to stop a lot of the negativity by just coming out and saying there is zero chance Mick is leaving. By him staying quiet, he just allows everyone to assume Mick is possibly in trouble and then everyone piles on!

Right, all the criticism would go away if only Thomas would give him the vote of confidence. He gave Cronin an extension 7 months ago. Whenever people have called for Mick's head, others have explain how Cronin isn't going anywhere - how there's a reason he got a 6 year deal to start and an extension over the summer, how the university can't afford to buy him out and pay another coach. As you can see, it hasn't stopped the calls for his firing.

[LongTimer]

Right, all the criticism would go away if only Thomas would give him the vote of confidence. He gave Cronin an extension 7 months ago. Whenever people have called for Mick's head, others have explain how Cronin isn't going anywhere - how there's a reason he got a 6 year deal to start and an extension over the summer, how the university can't afford to buy him out and pay another coach. As you can see, it hasn't stopped the calls for his firing.

There are a lot on rumors floating around from people I talk to who are close to the program that suggest he might not be as secure as many think. When Mick got his extension, this season was looking promising and there weren't a lot of people calling for his head. As the season played out, the negativity has returned. Therefore, another vote of confidence would be nice about now. When I hear the rumors and hear no vote of confidence, it makes me think the rumors are true. I would welcome Mike Thomas giving that vote of confidence and I think it would help.

[levydl]

As I have said before, if we can't afford to be in the Big East, then lets go back to a mid major league where we can compete. To come into the Big East and then start this "we're in debt" stuff and "we spend a lot less than other Big East schools", is just BS. I understand that it has helped football a lot, but it has slowly destroyed basketball. We're so poor that we have to hang on to a bad coach forever? That's sad. I agree that we badly need Mick to succeed, but he doesn't appear capable of doing so. We can't honestly expect next year to be any better. Just think about how negative everything will be if one year from now we are sitting here in 9th or 10th place in the Big East again. I think that is where we are headed based on who will probably be leaving and the fact that we only have a couple 3-star recruits coming in.....and still "NO SHOOTERS"!

Not forever, but longer than 4 years. And entering the Big East did not destroy basketball, a few other things did, which you know all too well.

How is acknowledging the fact that UC is in serious debt BS? Complain all you want, there's no way to pay Cronin and a new coach. It just can't be done. UC can afford to be in the Big East (it can't afford not to, actually), but the basketball program can't afford to blow even more money than it already has.

As far as next year, I don't think we have any clue right now what the roster will look like.

[levydl]

There are a lot on rumors floating around from people I talk to who are close to the program that suggest he might not be as secure as many think. When Mick got his extension, this season was looking promising and there weren't a lot of people calling for his head. As the season played out, the negativity has returned. Therefore, another vote of confidence would be nice about now. When I hear the rumors and hear no vote of confidence, it makes me think the rumors are true. I would welcome Mike Thomas giving that vote of confidence and I think it would help.

I'm hearing the exact opposite.

You want the AD to come out in the middle of the season and give him the vote of confidence, less than a year after giving him an extension? It wouldn't do anything to quiet the criticism. The only thing the people calling for Cronin's head want is Cronin's head.

[LongTimer]

Not forever, but longer than 4 years. And entering the Big East did not destroy basketball, a few other things did, which you know all too well.

How is acknowledging the fact that UC is in serious debt BS? Complain all you want, there's no way to pay Cronin and a new coach. It just can't be done. UC can afford to be in the Big East (it can't afford not to, actually), but the basketball program can't afford to blow even more money than it already has.

As far as next year, I don't think we have any clue right now what the roster will look like.

What is the difference between paying two coaches versus paying one coach and losing another thousand fans/UCATS donors? Unless all these people on here are lying, many have said that if Cronin stays, they are gone. That exact thing has been happening consistently for the last 4 years. The lack of fan interest and apathy is at the highest it has been since the Tony Yates era. The bleeding has to stop now.

[LongTimer]

I'm hearing the exact opposite.

You want the AD to come out in the middle of the season and give him the vote of confidence, less than a year after giving him an extension? It wouldn't do anything to quiet the criticism. The only thing the people calling for Cronin's head want is Cronin's head.

I agree....the ones who want his head will be pi$$ed at the vote of confidence. The ones on the fence like myself would probably move on and tone down the rhetoric. I don't care what they do, but whatever they do better be the right decision, because we are at a serious point for our program. In no time, we could look up and be 10 years down the road without returning to the NCAA and our program would be toast. The best option bar none is for Mick to pull it all together. I, like many others, am getting a little impatient with a lot of what I am seeing from him. He needs to do something soon!

[Herb Jones]

Lobot ... I like the plug for BN.com ... But you can NOT possibly believe that ...

[levydl]

What is the difference between paying two coaches versus paying one coach and losing another thousand fans/UCATS donors? Unless all these people on here are lying, many have said that if Cronin stays, they are gone. That exact thing has been happening consistently for the last 4 years. The lack of fan interest and apathy is at the highest it has been since the Tony Yates era. The bleeding has to stop now.

It would cost about $4-5 mil. to pay Mick off at this point. Then at least the same to hire a replacement. I think we're at the point with UCats donors that if they're still around, they're probably not leaving any time soon.

[oldcat48]

Yeah, I'm sick of the big scary threats that people are going to pull from UCats, too. UCats does not appear to be in any trouble and in fact is growing. You want to give up your seats, go ahead. If all it takes is to be in the middle of a few rebuilding years in basketball to make a handful of fans leave UCats, so be it. But stop threatening it on the message boards. There are people who will bet on the future and grab your seats.

I think college athletics is an investment you make for the long haul. You donate (and get good seats) because you realize that once every so many years you're going to get a payoff. Sometimes if you're lucky you get in a higher level and get to stay there for a while. In football, we've just won the conference twice and been to the Orange and the Sugar bowls - hopefully that's not the end but it was a real high as a fan. You invest because you're betting on the future. In the meantime you support your team and assume things will get better.

From all accounts Mike Thomas wants UC's players in all sports to get to enjoy the success of their labors. In looking at his other actions and his other hires, I don't get the sense he is comfortable languishing in mediocrity at all. He also has all the inside information that goes into making these kinds of decisions that none of us have. I don't get the sense he's reactionary, either, which is probably a good thing or Mick would have been fired and rehired and then fired and rehired several times already.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I agree....the ones who want his head will be pi$$ed at the vote of confidence. The ones on the fence like myself would probably move on and tone down the rhetoric. I don't care what they do, but whatever they do better be the right decision, because we are at a serious point for our program. In no time, we could look up and be 10 years down the road without returning to the NCAA and our program would be toast. The best option bar none is for Mick to pull it all together. I, like many others, am getting a little impatient with a lot of what I am seeing from him. He needs to do something soon!

You don't seriously think anybody believes this do you? On the fence? Since when?

[Bearcat Jeff]

You're just talking about the tournament. There was and still is, for now, a regular season played first each year. While Huggs had his problems as a tournament coach, his teams spent a lot of time ranked in not just the Top 25, but the Top 10.

I count five finishes in the AP Top 10 from '93 to '04.

Huggins played in a top heavy conference and was/is very good at scheduling. I think all will agree on that. Elite teams are made in March. UC was not an elite team under Huggins. Period end of story. He got us there but couldn't take us to the elite level. Matter of fact it was often joked about how his teams underachieved in March. Did they or were they a product of playing in a top heavy league and against good mid-majors in non-conf? I say they were never as good as the record indicated. That or he perrenially underachieved. NEVER beat a team seeded higher. NEVER!

[Grimdogg]

Yeah, I'm sick of the big scary threats that people are going to pull from UCats, too. UCats does not appear to be in any trouble and in fact is growing. You want to give up your seats, go ahead. If all it takes is to be in the middle of a few rebuilding years in basketball to make a handful of fans leave UCats, so be it. But stop threatening it on the message boards. There are people who will bet on the future and grab your seats.

I think college athletics is an investment you make for the long haul. You donate (and get good seats) because you realize that once every so many years you're going to get a payoff. Sometimes if you're lucky you get in a higher level and get to stay there for a while. In football, we've just won the conference twice and been to the Orange and the Sugar bowls - hopefully that's not the end but it was a real high as a fan. You invest because you're betting on the future. In the meantime you support your team and assume things will get better.

From all accounts Mike Thomas wants UC's players in all sports to get to enjoy the success of their labors. In looking at his other actions and his other hires, I don't get the sense he is comfortable languishing in mediocrity at all. He also has all the inside information that goes into making these kinds of decisions that none of us have. I don't get the sense he's reactionary, either, which is probably a good thing or Mick would have been fired and rehired and then fired and rehired several times already.

In the words of Jim Rome "RACK HIM!"

Thank God there are more than fair weather fans on here still

[LongTimer]

Huggins played in a top heavy conference and was/is very good at scheduling. I think all will agree on that. Elite teams are made in March. UC was not an elite team under Huggins. Period end of story. He got us there but couldn't take us to the elite level. Matter of fact it was often joked about how his teams underachieved in March. Did they or were they a product of playing in a top heavy league and against good mid-majors in non-conf? I say they were never as good as the record indicated. That or he perrenially underachieved. NEVER beat a team seeded higher. NEVER!

First of all, the opportunities to beat higher seeded teams is greatly reduced when you are consistently one of the higher seeded teams. If you are a 4 seed, you won't face a higher seeded team until the sweet 16. If you are a 3 seed...not until the sweet 16.....a two seed, not until the elite 8,...a one seed...never. Non-elite programs aren't ranked #1 in the nation which we were many times. Non elite programs don't garner tons of network TV nationally televised games, which we did. Non-elite programs aren't chosen by the greatest basketball player on the planet to debut his brand new personal brand of uniforms, which we were. Non elite programs don't "average" 25 wins a year for 16 years, which we did. Non-elite programs are not one of the national leaders in apparel sales, which we were. Non-elite programs don't earn their way to 14 consecutive NCAA tournaments in a row which at that time was only surpassed by one program in the nation (Arizona). Duke, North Carolina, UCONN, UCLA, Kentucky, Florida, and on and on and on could not pull that off. I could go on, but for someone to argue that we weren't an elite program is just comical and disrespects what our great players and our coach accomplished.

[oldcat48]

Quite frankly, that sounded a lot like "excuses." Of course, I'm sure you'd term it as "explanation." Unless, of course, it's coming out of Cronin's mouth.

[LongTimer]

You don't seriously think anybody believes this do you? On the fence? Since when?

Below was my December 7th post on this forum after Maui. But you don't have to believe me. It's in the archives for all to see. Just go there and look it up. We were in the top 20 that week. I guess Mick has proved me wrong, didn't he?

"Mick has done a great job getting us back where we belong. Some of us wish it had happened sooner, but the bottom line is that we are there now. I think it is time to start looking at not only an extension (he got two additional years added earlier this year), but a nice pay increase. What he got this year was only an extension with no raise. I don't think that was a strong vote of confidense. The present is looking good. The future looks good. Lets give him a real contract this time. I've seen enough. Yes, there's the stretch drive collapses, but I don't think we'll see anymore of those. I'm confident enough in him now to lock him up long term. I predicted that we would compete for the BE title this year and nothing I've seen yet has changed my mind on that prediction. I'm more confident now than when I made that prediction."

[BtotheU]

Does the internet affect a coach's career?


It didn't affect John Wooden's coaching career.

[LongTimer]

Yeah, I'm sick of the big scary threats that people are going to pull from UCats, too. UCats does not appear to be in any trouble and in fact is growing. You want to give up your seats, go ahead. If all it takes is to be in the middle of a few rebuilding years in basketball to make a handful of fans leave UCats, so be it. But stop threatening it on the message boards. There are people who will bet on the future and grab your seats.

I think college athletics is an investment you make for the long haul. You donate (and get good seats) because you realize that once every so many years you're going to get a payoff. Sometimes if you're lucky you get in a higher level and get to stay there for a while. In football, we've just won the conference twice and been to the Orange and the Sugar bowls - hopefully that's not the end but it was a real high as a fan. You invest because you're betting on the future. In the meantime you support your team and assume things will get better.

From all accounts Mike Thomas wants UC's players in all sports to get to enjoy the success of their labors. In looking at his other actions and his other hires, I don't get the sense he is comfortable languishing in mediocrity at all. He also has all the inside information that goes into making these kinds of decisions that none of us have. I don't get the sense he's reactionary, either, which is probably a good thing or Mick would have been fired and rehired and then fired and rehired several times already.

Oldcat, respectfully, your arguments here are pretty lame. UCATS not in trouble? If they aren't in trouble, why do we constantly hear about all the debt. Why do we constantly hear about us not spending anywhere close to other Big East schools on basketball. Why do we pay our football coach worse than mid-major schools? If UCATS is doing so well, there is one explanation...football. And in my opinion, that football success is still very very fragile. There's no history whatsoever of football loyalty and when we fall back down, as our continuing mediocre recruiting rankings (#63 this year)indicate we will, you'll see a mass exodus of UCATS contributors. If you're trying to say that basketball donors haven't dwindled, I'm sorry, but I totallly disagree. I've watched a lot of loyal high dollar donors in my section give up their seats the last 4 years because they were upset at the direction of the program. Some of these people have been with me since the Yates/Badger years and suddenly...gone! I love the people who make fun of the people who say they will leave. It's been happening for four years now and it is slowly destroying our program and definitely our home court advantage, which impacts wins, recruiting, our coach, etc. When people say they are leaving, they are leaving. Look at our crowds...it's happening. We can't even sell out games against top 5 teams now.

College athletics an investment for the long haul? Sometimes that is true. I've been going 48 straight years win or lose. Not many are like me. Most come and go based on the success of the program. I was pretty lonely in the 80s. I could put my feet over the seats in front of me and stretch out and relax. If I saw someone on the other side of the court that I knew, I could yell and he could hear me. Huggs showed up and suddenly everyone started investing in college athletics. Now, I can stretch out again at some games. The seats in front of me have been empty a lot (and those seats are very close to the floor). It's getting close to where I can yell across the floor again. A few games this year have been like sitting in a library. Sorry, I disagree with most of your post.

[MI Bearcat]

Huggins played in a top heavy conference and was/is very good at scheduling. I think all will agree on that. Elite teams are made in March. UC was not an elite team under Huggins. Period end of story. He got us there but couldn't take us to the elite level. Matter of fact it was often joked about how his teams underachieved in March. Did they or were they a product of playing in a top heavy league and against good mid-majors in non-conf? I say they were never as good as the record indicated. That or he perrenially underachieved. NEVER beat a team seeded higher. NEVER!

I'm not quite sure why Huggins is a part of this discussion except for the fact that when he was our coach we got used to winning. He made some bad decisions and is no longer our coach. West Virginia now gets to be ranked in the top ten (and a member of the Big East). The overall question is whether or not our current coach is capable of taking us to the next level (or our previous level). My opinion is no. Optimism only gets you so far. At some point results must be achieved. Obviously it would be better if Mick succeeded than replacing him, but I have not seen any signs that is going to happen. How long do we have to watch our team get out hustled, out coached and out played by teams with inferior talent before some will finally say enough is enough.

[cincycpaw]

Huggins played in a top heavy conference and was/is very good at scheduling. I think all will agree on that. Elite teams are made in March. UC was not an elite team under Huggins. Period end of story. He got us there but couldn't take us to the elite level. Matter of fact it was often joked about how his teams underachieved in March. Did they or were they a product of playing in a top heavy league and against good mid-majors in non-conf? I say they were never as good as the record indicated. That or he perrenially underachieved. NEVER beat a team seeded higher. NEVER!

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH..

When we have a perfectly good underachieving coach currently ruining, er, running the program can't we stop talking about the past coach that got us to the tournament EVERY YEAR?

[Billy Don]

I dont know about Teague but he is right about Maxiells monther. She monitored these boards and contributed regularly. Doesnt it make sense??? If you were a recruit wouldnt you read these boards. How else can you follow a program?

Max's mom and I use to exchange e-mails all the time. Sent me pictures of herself and Max's trophys etc. She was up on what was going on and she knew Max was a first round draft pick just because of his defense that Huggins taught him.

[oldcat48]

Oldcat, respectfully, your arguments here are pretty lame. UCATS not in trouble? If they aren't in trouble, why do we constantly hear about all the debt. Why do we constantly hear about us not spending anywhere close to other Big East schools on basketball. Why do we pay our football coach worse than mid-major schools? If UCATS is doing so well, there is one explanation...football. And in my opinion, that football success is still very very fragile. There's no history whatsoever of football loyalty and when we fall back down, as our continuing mediocre recruiting rankings (#63 this year)indicate we will, you'll see a mass exodus of UCATS contributors. If you're trying to say that basketball donors haven't dwindled, I'm sorry, but I totallly disagree. I've watched a lot of loyal high dollar donors in my section give up their seats the last 4 years because they were upset at the direction of the program. Some of these people have been with me since the Yates/Badger years and suddenly...gone! I love the people who make fun of the people who say they will leave. It's been happening for four years now and it is slowly destroying our program and definitely our home court advantage, which impacts wins, recruiting, our coach, etc. When people say they are leaving, they are leaving. Look at our crowds...it's happening. We can't even sell out games against top 5 teams now.

College athletics an investment for the long haul? Sometimes that is true. I've been going 48 straight years win or lose. Not many are like me. Most come and go based on the success of the program. I was pretty lonely in the 80s. I could put my feet over the seats in front of me and stretch out and relax. If I saw someone on the other side of the court that I knew, I could yell and he could hear me. Huggs showed up and suddenly everyone started investing in college athletics. Now, I can stretch out again at some games. The seats in front of me have been empty a lot (and those seats are very close to the floor). It's getting close to where I can yell across the floor again. A few games this year have been like sitting in a library. Sorry, I disagree with most of your post.


Well let's look at your points here. First, if you call doubling (I actually think it's higher than this) the number of UCats contributors "in trouble" then all I can say is your opinion flies in the face of the facts that UCats is growing and donations are up. But then a couple of sentences later you accept that UCats is doing well, and only credit it to football (as if the reason negates the fact that UCats is vastly imroved). I say fine, give football credit, and thank God that during this rebuilding for basketball we had football to carry the weight. I hope it continues, and just because it's new (you call that fragile) doesn't mean it's not going to continue.

The athletic department as a whole has to deal with the debt. We went into the Big East without the money to do it right, apparently. I think we're doing pretty well considering we're at the bottom of the football schools in funding. Honestly, Zimpher's timing of the Huggins firing was the problem. He had to go (no one is above their boss and the guy and his program were out of control off the court), but had she or Goin just fired him after the DUI, the timing of it would have been fine for hiring a new coach. No doubt that cost us dearly in terms of losing in recruiting and rebuilding.

You second paragraph basically makes my point! Supporters come and go. Bandwagon fans are a given. But those lower level seats will be taken if they're given up. They're prime seats and we're in the best basketball league in the country. I have no doubt UC basketball is not in the middle for the long haul. So if the long-timers (several of whom spend Jan-March in Florida, anyway) are moving on at this time, fine. When we win there's just new butts in the seats. Proof: football.

Lastly, you live in a bubble and need to take a broader view of college basketball. Most programs have games with less attendance, especially when you're not ranked in the top ten in the country. I think our crowds for the Big East home games have been excellent and the crowd's been into it when we're rolling (and quieter when we're not - that's every athletic event in the country. "Take the crowd out of the game" is a common expression). I've been impressed with our crowds.

I just get tired of your "the sky if falling!" posts about UCats. These things are cyclical. Cronin may or may not be the guy. But you're just too emotional - and you run with scissors when you're on a high or a low.

[RobPoppeil]

Yes lets put only the positive posts up and Teague will sign here for sure. It has nothing to do with winning, player development, getting into the tournament. This is crazy to me. Some of you guys put way to much stock into Bearcat News. I promise you Bearcat News has zero impact on whether or not Teague comes to UC.

I never said he signed for sure. I am telling you straight out of the father's mouth it is a concern. Take that for what it is worth. He is very concerned about his son playing in an environment where negativity surrounds the coach and program. People on here don't have to believe that but it doesn't make it any less true. It may even be true that in most instances it doesn't affect things but in this one it is a legit concern for the Teague's.

If he is sooo concerned about negativity in a program, why doesn't he sign him up with a small school where no one will ever say anything bad? I bet Vermont has a very positive attitude towars their team.

[Billy Don]

UC has never had the brand name of UNC, Duke, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, Indiana and the like. There is a big difference between being good for a period of time and being an established brand name. UNLV is a good example of this. Feared for a time but no brand name staying power. UC fits that category. You like some other Cincinnati fans think more highly of this program than was nationally. Even in Huggs best years the program was well liked regionally but never respected nationally.

When Cincinnati was rated #1 in the nation I guess they got rated that way by a couple of Cincinnati fans. It's obivious it was the respect of the basketball nation, not a couple of UC fans. There wasn't a college basketball fan anywhere in the nation that didn't know and respect what Cincinnati basketball was.

[LongTimer]

Well let's look at your points here. First, if you call doubling (I actually think it's higher than this) the number of UCats contributors "in trouble" then all I can say is your opinion flies in the face of the facts that UCats is growing and donations are up. But then a couple of sentences later you accept that UCats is doing well, and only credit it to football (as if the reason negates the fact that UCats is vastly imroved). I say fine, give football credit, and thank God that during this rebuilding for basketball we had football to carry the weight. I hope it continues, and just because it's new (you call that fragile) doesn't mean it's not going to continue.

The athletic department as a whole has to deal with the debt. We went into the Big East without the money to do it right, apparently. I think we're doing pretty well considering we're at the bottom of the football schools in funding. Honestly, Zimpher's timing of the Huggins firing was the problem. He had to go (no one is above their boss and the guy and his program were out of control off the court), but had she or Goin just fired him after the DUI, the timing of it would have been fine for hiring a new coach. No doubt that cost us dearly in terms of losing in recruiting and rebuilding.

You second paragraph basically makes my point! Supporters come and go. Bandwagon fans are a given. But those lower level seats will be taken if they're given up. They're prime seats and we're in the best basketball league in the country. I have no doubt UC basketball is not in the middle for the long haul. So if the long-timers (several of whom spend Jan-March in Florida, anyway) are moving on at this time, fine. When we win there's just new butts in the seats. Proof: football.

Lastly, you live in a bubble and need to take a broader view of college basketball. Most programs have games with less attendance, especially when you're not ranked in the top ten in the country. I think our crowds for the Big East home games have been excellent and the crowd's been into it when we're rolling (and quieter when we're not - that's every athletic event in the country. "Take the crowd out of the game" is a common expression). I've been impressed with our crowds.

I just get tired of your "the sky if falling!" posts about UCats. These things are cyclical. Cronin may or may not be the guy. But you're just too emotional - and you run with scissors when you're on a high or a low.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. The only thing that saved us is football's success. If that hadn't happened, there is no chance in he11 that anyone could have said UCATS donors are increasing. Until I see about 10 years of sustained football success, I won't be a believer. Football is a hundred times more fragile than basketball at this university. We should be selling out nearly every Big East game and we're not close to selling out any. To you, the crowds seem nice because we are now comparing them to the 5,000 that show up early in the season. I compare them to all the sellouts or near sellouts that we once had and in my opinion they suck. Plus, come on...crowd is into it...lol...thats a joke. I guess you weren't at games in the 90's. Even the very best crowd enthusiasm this year would have been considered pitiful in the 90's. But, that is how far we have fallen when guys like you say the crowds are good and the enthusiasm is titilating. We continue to cry about our debt and not being able to buy coaches out, and we can't compete with the other schools. That all says UCATS is not in good shape, and the fans definitely don't always come back. When we were in the top 20 this season, it made zero difference. This is a different day and time for UC basketball.

[cincycpaw]

In the words of Jim Rome "RACK HIM!"

Thank God there are more than fair weather fans on here still

None of the fans around here still are fair weather fans.

[oldcat48]

Until I see about 10 years of sustained football success, I won't be a believer.

Did it take you seeing 10 years of sustained basketball success to become a believer? Ten years???

I'm just as negative as the next guy the day after losses, but then as a few days go on I regain my objectivity. I don't really want the administration to make snap judgments based on the disappointed feeling everyone has after losses. That would be ridiculous.

To be fair, I will give you that the crowds are not quite the same as when we were winning a lot with Huggs. But the crowds haven't been quite the dregs you paint them to be, either. I think you get yourself in a tizzy and then want instant gratification, which is not the way to approach anything as major as a coaching change. Act, don't react. Make a plan and then barring any unforeseen issues, stick with it.

[BearcatAlum1]

Gang mentality like no other on this thread.

Pack of wolves looking for blood.

Commical if you ask me.

[LongTimer]

Gang mentality like no other on this thread.

Pack of wolves looking for blood.

Commical if you ask me.

I know....thanks for your concern. But, I can handle it. I'm used to being ganged up on! :D

[LongTimer]

Did it take you seeing 10 years of sustained basketball success to become a believer? Ten years???

I'm just as negative as the next guy the day after losses, but then as a few days go on I regain my objectivity. I don't really want the administration to make snap judgments based on the disappointed feeling everyone has after losses. That would be ridiculous.

To be fair, I will give you that the crowds are not quite the same as when we were winning a lot with Huggs. But the crowds haven't been quite the dregs you paint them to be, either. I think you get yourself in a tizzy and then want instant gratification, which is not the way to approach anything as major as a coaching change. Act, don't react. Make a plan and then barring any unforeseen issues, stick with it.

Unforseen issues....like not even earning a trip to the NIT!!! It's bad enough to not have an NCAA bid after 4 years, but no NIT either. Even Tony Yates inherited the worst team in history and was 3-23 in his first year and got us to the NIT in year 2. Come on...those are unforseen issues and should cause you to revisit the plan. I know that Top 97 is tough to crack and we should be patient and stay the course. :rolleyes: I have advocated giving him his 5th year all along, but if they make a change this year, I'm not going to cry about it. If he's back, I'll still be in my seats cheering for him and his team next year. I can't let Mick Cronin drive me away from what I have been doing, and loving, for 48 straight years.

[Bearcat Jeff]

First of all, the opportunities to beat higher seeded teams is greatly reduced when you are consistently one of the higher seeded teams. If you are a 4 seed, you won't face a higher seeded team until the sweet 16. If you are a 3 seed...not until the sweet 16.....a two seed, not until the elite 8,...a one seed...never. Non-elite programs aren't ranked #1 in the nation which we were many times. Non elite programs don't garner tons of network TV nationally televised games, which we did. Non-elite programs aren't chosen by the greatest basketball player on the planet to debut his brand new personal brand of uniforms, which we were. Non elite programs don't "average" 25 wins a year for 16 years, which we did. Non-elite programs are not one of the national leaders in apparel sales, which we were. Non-elite programs don't earn their way to 14 consecutive NCAA tournaments in a row which at that time was only surpassed by one program in the nation (Arizona). Duke, North Carolina, UCONN, UCLA, Kentucky, Florida, and on and on and on could not pull that off. I could go on, but for someone to argue that we weren't an elite program is just comical and disrespects what our great players and our coach accomplished.

I listed all the teams with more tournament success during Huggins tenure. As usual you brush facts aside because it doesn't support your boy Huggs. Not elite anywhere save the minds of the Huggs fans. If the teams were seeded higher than they failed by not advancing more to the final four. So if that's your argument it makes it look even worse. They were very good. Not elite. No titles, 1 final four in 16 seasons. Not an elite program. Many 1st and second round failures. Very good not elite. Xavier has averaged 25 wins over the past few years are they elite? No, very good, not elite. The truth isn't disrespectful It is simply the truth. Won alot of games against lower tier CUSA teams and mid major conference teams. Consistent failures in March when it mattered in spite of being seeded very highly. Never beat a higher seed when given the opportunity. Consistently lost to lower seeds to fail to make the final four, elite 8 and sweet 16. Very good not elite. When you have something to actually debate with come back.

[Major ----de Coverley]

Unforseen issues....like not even earning a trip to the NIT!!! It's bad enough to not have an NCAA bid after 4 years, but no NIT either. Even Tony Yates inherited the worst team in history and was 3-23 in his first year and got us to the NIT in year 2. Come on...those are unforseen issues and should cause you to revisit the plan. I know that Top 97 is tough to crack and we should be patient and stay the course. :rolleyes: I have advocated giving him his 5th year all along, but if they make a change this year, I'm not going to cry about it. If he's back, I'll still be in my seats cheering for him and his team next year. I can't let Mick Cronin drive me away from what I have been doing, and loving, for 48 straight years.


There was a charactor in the movie "aliens" named Hudson who was a perpetual whiner in the face of any adversity that came his way. This post above and many others by the same author bring that charactor to mind. Longtimer, we know times are tough and you are obviously a fan of UC ( in your own way), but could you please take a break. Both you and Billy Don are becoming this blogs version of tinnitus ( constant negative ringing in the ears).

Oldcat48, thanks for trying to bring some reasoned judgement to the
overly emotional and sometimes infantile dialogue.

[Bearcat Jeff]

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH..

When we have a perfectly good underachieving coach currently ruining, er, running the program can't we stop talking about the past coach that got us to the tournament EVERY YEAR?
Mine was a response to a poster saying we used to be an elite program which we never were. I laid the facts out to show we were very good, not elite. I have called for Mick's dismissal after the season so why so defensive?

[Bearcat Jeff]

When Cincinnati was rated #1 in the nation I guess they got rated that way by a couple of Cincinnati fans. It's obivious it was the respect of the basketball nation, not a couple of UC fans. There wasn't a college basketball fan anywhere in the nation that didn't know and respect what Cincinnati basketball was.

I have traveled all over this country, especially during the 90's, and I can assure you Cincinnati was not thought of as highly as some of you think it was. They were often a laughing stock in spite of on court success. Why can't some of you handle the truth?

[cincycpaw]

I have traveled all over this country, especially during the 90's, and I can assure you Cincinnati was not thought of as highly as some of you think it was. They were often a laughing stock in spite of on court success. Why can't some of you handle the truth?

Again, why would you care what people across the country thought of the program?

[CincyEngGrad02]

I have traveled all over this country, especially during the 90's, and I can assure you Cincinnati was not thought of as highly as some of you think it was. They were often a laughing stock in spite of on court success. Why can't some of you handle the truth?

Who really cares if they were the laughing stock (not saying they were, but I'll just go with your assumption for now).

People are so dumb, they still think Obama is muslim and shouldn't be allowed to be President. People still think we fought the Civil War to stop slavery. People think that George Bush made gas prices higher so he could get richer.

Point is, people are dumb. And I don't know why you or I would ever care what people say about a basketball program we care about. Especially uneducated people.

[BearcatAlum1]

Who really cares if they were the laughing stock (not saying they were, but I'll just go with your assumption for now).

People are so dumb, they still think Obama is muslim and shouldn't be allowed to be President. People still think we fought the Civil War to stop slavery. People think that George Bush made gas prices higher so he could get richer.

Point is, people are dumb. And I don't know why you or I would ever care what people say about a basketball program we care about. Especially uneducated people.

Funny thing is, that can apply to many of the people that are within our own fanbase.

If this forum is any indication of the IQ of our fanbase as a whole, I am terrified.

[BeastUC]

Again, why would you care what people across the country thought of the program?

Some of those people might be family or friends with potential recruits.
The opinion of the university by those people might be a bigger impact on a decision than what we as fans write on a message board.

[aronius]

There was a charactor in the movie "aliens" named Hudson who was a perpetual whiner in the face of any adversity that came his way. This post above and many others by the same author bring that charactor to mind. Longtimer, we know times are tough and you are obviously a fan of UC ( in your own way), but could you please take a break. Both you and Billy Don are becoming this blogs version of tinnitus ( constant negative ringing in the ears).

Oldcat48, thanks for trying to bring some reasoned judgement to the
overly emotional and sometimes infantile dialogue.

Great comparison! I also agree with everything Oldcat said in his earlier post.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Who really cares if they were the laughing stock (not saying they were, but I'll just go with your assumption for now).

People are so dumb, they still think Obama is muslim and shouldn't be allowed to be President. People still think we fought the Civil War to stop slavery. People think that George Bush made gas prices higher so he could get richer.

Point is, people are dumb. And I don't know why you or I would ever care what people say about a basketball program we care about. Especially uneducated people.

Let's talk about uneducated for a sec. It was that perception that led to the dismissal of your beloved savior. It obviously meant alot!! So I would say the people that think it didn't matter what others thought are the uneducated ones.

The lot of you Hugginites can't debate because you HAVE NOTHING TO STAND ON...lol. You guys can't touch this...just stop you're embarrassing yourselves.

[cincycpaw]

Let's talk about uneducated for a sec. It was that perception that led to the dismissal of your beloved savior. It obviously meant alot!! So I would say the people that think it didn't matter what others thought are the uneducated ones.

The lot of you Hugginites can't debate because you HAVE NOTHING TO STAND ON...lol. You guys can't touch this...just stop you're embarrassing yourselves.


Umm...since you want to go into it, it was the idiots that let a stupid perception about the program grow instead of defending reality...then they used this ridiculous perception to fool other idiots into thinking it was a good idea to get rid of huggins and hire an unproven coach that is just happy to be in the city.

[LongTimer]

I listed all the teams with more tournament success during Huggins tenure. As usual you brush facts aside because it doesn't support your boy Huggs. Not elite anywhere save the minds of the Huggs fans. If the teams were seeded higher than they failed by not advancing more to the final four. So if that's your argument it makes it look even worse. They were very good. Not elite. No titles, 1 final four in 16 seasons. Not an elite program. Many 1st and second round failures. Very good not elite. Xavier has averaged 25 wins over the past few years are they elite? No, very good, not elite. The truth isn't disrespectful It is simply the truth. Won alot of games against lower tier CUSA teams and mid major conference teams. Consistent failures in March when it mattered in spite of being seeded very highly. Never beat a higher seed when given the opportunity. Consistently lost to lower seeds to fail to make the final four, elite 8 and sweet 16. Very good not elite. When you have something to actually debate with come back.

lol...you mean all the other points I made that you glossed over and didn't comment on. I don't need to come back. Your lack of addressing those "facts" proves my point. Oh, by the way...as you say, Xavier has averaged 25 wins "the last few years". That is a lot different than averaging it for "16" years, and if I remove the 1st 2 years when he was rebuilding, the average is more like 26 wins a season for 14 years. The "experts" ranked us #1 in the nation a number of times, top 10 a lot, top 25 at worst. Seems as though they didn't factor in any supposed lower tier CUSA teams into their thinking. We had 1st team all-americans and even the Unanimous National Player of the Year. Why would the "experts" present a player with such a lofty award when his stats were inflated by playing in a supposed lower tier league? Puzzling isn't it? Why would Michael Jordan want to promote his new uniforms by putting them on the back of a team in a lower tier league? Is he an *****? Why would "network" television consistently nationally televise a team in a lower tier league? Who in the he11 would watch such a thing? I could go on and on, but the argument is silly because the answer to all the questions above basically disproves your theory. Give it up! It's getting old

[cincycpaw]

Funny thing is, that can apply to many of the people that are within our own fanbase.

If this forum is any indication of the IQ of our fanbase as a whole, I am terrified.

I've said this before to you, and it still rings true. Your superiority complex is really annoying.

[Bearcat Jeff]

lol...you mean all the other points I made that you glossed over and didn't comment on. I don't need to come back. Your lack of addressing those "facts" proves my point. Oh, by the way...as you say, Xavier has averaged 25 wins "the last few years". That is a lot different than averaging it for "16" years, and if I remove the 1st 2 years when he was rebuilding, the average is more like 26 wins a season for 14 years. The "experts" ranked us #1 in the nation a number of times, top 10 a lot, top 25 at worst. Seems as though they didn't factor in any supposed lower tier CUSA teams into their thinking. We had 1st team all-americans and even the Unanimous National Player of the Year. Why would the "experts" present a player with such a lofty award when his stats were inflated by playing in a supposed lower tier league? Puzzling isn't it? Why would Michael Jordan want to promote his new uniforms by putting them on the back of a team in a lower tier league? Is he an *****? Why would "network" television consistently nationally televise a team in a lower tier league? Who in the he11 would watch such a thing? I could go on and on, but the argument is silly because the answer to all the questions above basically disproves your theory. Give it up! It's getting old

So you're admitting that the program underachieved with Huggins at the helm? 16 years with 1 final four and 0 championships with all that? Surely an elite program with all that must have done something more right? Maybe I missed it. The number one rankings and seedings and 0 championships and 1 final four. A number one seed Logans senior year and a 2nd round exit. Kenyon Martin breaks his leg and the roster still had first round draft picks on it. They at least went to the sweet 16 right? Oh no, second round loss again...dang!! Winthrop averaged 25 wins from 2004-2007 they must be an elite program during those years!!! Your debating points are so far off because there are no results to give them any beef!! Longtimer you are long time whiner who just can't admit when you're wrong. Very good not elite. Here let me put it in bold letters so you can read and understand. Very good not elite! UConn, Kentucky, North Carolina and Duke all with 2 count em 2 championships in those years. Those were the elite schools of that time. Many others with at least 1 championship and more final fours. Those are the next level. VERY GOOD NOT ELITE. Got it now?

[MDW79]

Umm...since you want to go into it, it was the idiots that let a stupid perception about the program grow instead of defending reality...then they used this ridiculous perception to fool other idiots into thinking it was a good idea to get rid of huggins and hire an unproven coach that is just happy to be in the city.

There is a whole lot of truth to this. I realize that perception is reality but Huggins was a great coach, cared for his kids, and never got near the credit he deserved in developing his players into better people.

[LongTimer]

So you're admitting that the program underachieved with Huggins at the helm? 16 years with 1 final four and 0 championships with all that? Surely an elite program with all that must have done something more right? Maybe I missed it. The number one rankings and seedings and 0 championships and 1 final four. A number one seed Logans senior year and a 2nd round exit. Kenyon Martin breaks his leg and the roster still had first round draft picks on it. They at least went to the sweet 16 right? Oh no, second round loss again...dang!! Winthrop averaged 25 wins from 2004-2007 they must be an elite program during those years!!! Your debating points are so far off because there are no results to give them any beef!! Longtimer you are long time whiner who just can't admit when you're wrong. Very good not elite. Here let me put it in bold letters so you can read and understand. Very good not elite! UConn, Kentucky, North Carolina and Duke all with 2 count em 2 championships in those years. Those were the elite schools of that time. Many others with at least 1 championship and more final fours. Those are the next level. VERY GOOD NOT ELITE. Got it now?

Argument is over. If you can't address all the facts, there's no point in talking about the few that support your flawed theory.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Argument is over. If you can't address all the facts, there's no point in talking about the few that support your flawed theory.

Oh yeah, the program lost to Xavier twice while ranked number 1 too. There never was an argument. It's all about results. The results weren't there to make UC an elite program. Just very good, and you know I appreciated those years, but let's not make it out like it was the Wooden years at UCLA, or even Coach K at Duke during the same time frame.

[BearcatAlum1]

Bearcat Jeff is right. Many within our own fanbase do not have perspective of our own program. This is not atypical, because there is an inherent bias within.

This first step to beating the problem is admitting you have a problem (I SWEAR, I've never heard that before.....).

Those that cannot accept reality live in fantasy world. I've heard fantasy world is pretty sweet though, so maybe I should join....

[Billy Don]

Here's the bottom line. A survey of UC basketball fans of the past 20 years when asked who is the better coach? Huggins or Cronin? It would be at least 10-1 if not more Huggins is and you don't have to be educated to figure that out. A little common sense (which a lot of the so called educated don't have) is all thats required. I made so much money off those educated types with no common sense in poker games, I retired early. I love those type of guys!:D

[MDW79]

Oh yeah, the program lost to Xavier twice while ranked number 1 too. There never was an argument. It's all about results. The results weren't there to make UC an elite program. Just very good, and you know I appreciated those years, but let's not make it out like it was the Wooden years at UCLA, or even Coach K at Duke during the same time frame.

You're both right. You can argue this, either way, all day. Unfortunately there's no exact criteria for being elite or great . I get both positions, can we all just agree they were pretty damn good and move on?

[Bearcat Jeff]

There is a whole lot of truth to this. I realize that perception is reality but Huggins was a great coach, cared for his kids, and never got near the credit he deserved in developing his players into better people.

Nobody debates those points guys. For goodness sake we all loved the Huggins years. Some of you just take it WAAAAY too far and think way too much of him. I have said many times I still watch Huggs when he's on television. I loved the guy. It doesn't mean he walked on water. He had flaws and underachieved as well. Would I like to be back to the very good level? He!! yes. Let's just not rewrite history to make those years out to be something they weren't. There were a ton of disappointments and years the team did not live up to the hype. Who does that fall on? The coach same as it should now.

[Bearcat Jeff]

You're both right. You can argue this, either way, all day. Unfortunately there's no exact criteria for being elite or great . I get both positions, can we all just agree they were pretty damn good and move on?

They were very good as I have said many times.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Here's the bottom line. A survey of UC basketball fans of the past 20 years when asked who is the better coach? Huggins or Cronin? It would be at least 10-1 if not more Huggins is and you don't have to be educated to figure that out. A little common sense (which a lot of the so called educated don't have) is all thats required. I made so much money off those educated types with no common sense in poker games, I retired early. I love those type of guys!:D

That's not even a question is it? Huggins by a landslide. I have never compared the two. It is not even open to debate.

[MI Bearcat]

So you're admitting that the program underachieved with Huggins at the helm? 16 years with 1 final four and 0 championships with all that? Surely an elite program with all that must have done something more right? Maybe I missed it. The number one rankings and seedings and 0 championships and 1 final four. A number one seed Logans senior year and a 2nd round exit. Kenyon Martin breaks his leg and the roster still had first round draft picks on it. They at least went to the sweet 16 right? Oh no, second round loss again...dang!! Winthrop averaged 25 wins from 2004-2007 they must be an elite program during those years!!! Your debating points are so far off because there are no results to give them any beef!! Longtimer you are long time whiner who just can't admit when you're wrong. Very good not elite. Here let me put it in bold letters so you can read and understand. Very good not elite! UConn, Kentucky, North Carolina and Duke all with 2 count em 2 championships in those years. Those were the elite schools of that time. Many others with at least 1 championship and more final fours. Those are the next level. VERY GOOD NOT ELITE. Got it now?

Although I'm not sure why you want to bash Cincinnati, your entitled to your opinion and that is exactly what it is, YOUR opinion. If you want to spell out the facts then you also need to list the definition of "elite" in order to see if Cincinnati qualifies. Listing schools that you believe are elite means nothing to me. Longtimer is listing facts as to why he thinks they were elite. Your just trying to force your opinion on everyone. If you had to win a championship in order to qualify as an elite team, then I guess you are right. In my opinion, however, you're wrong.

[MDW79]

Nobody debates those points guys. For goodness sake we all loved the Huggins years. Some of you just take it WAAAAY too far and think way too much of him. I have said many times I still watch Huggs when he's on television. I loved the guy. It doesn't mean he walked on water. he had flaws and underachieved as well. Would I like to be back to the very good level? He!! yes. Let's just not rewrite history to make those years out to be something they weren't. There were a ton of disappointments and years the team did not live up to the hype. Who does that fall on? The coach same as it should now.

I agree with you, or can see your point is made rationally, almost 100% of time. My problem is with some of our "fans" that throw out the same crap that we heard from the media, X fans, or Joe Blow to bash the guy. Did he have some graduation issues? Yup. Did have a period where no one graduated, as the numbers dictate? Nope. Did we lose some games in the 2nd round? Yup. Is he a horrible coach b/c of this? Nope. I guess what I'm saying is, at times I feel like I'm reading an X forum from 10 years ago. Some people act as if they never rooted for this team before Cronin. Again, not directed at you but I can't stand coming here and having people just trash the Huggins years. I don't want to have to defend CUSA when someone calls it a mid major conference on a UC board. I don't want have to defend the old teams being pretty damn good. If people are for Mick, great but don't throw the old players and coach under the bus to make a point.

EDIT: I will also add, don't elevate Huggs higher than he was just to bash Cronin. I do get it's both sides that do this. I'm just particularly sensitive when people rip the old team though. Any UC fan during those years knows it was never as simple as second round and out, for example.

[LongTimer]

Bearcat Jeff is right. Many within our own fanbase do not have perspective of our own program. This is not atypical, because there is an inherent bias within.

This first step to beating the problem is admitting you have a problem (I SWEAR, I've never heard that before.....).

Those that cannot accept reality live in fantasy world. I've heard fantasy world is pretty sweet though, so maybe I should join....

Some day in the future, a vision will appear and we will see who is currently occupying the fantasy world...the Mick Lovers...or the Mick Haters. Both sides obviously think the other side is occupying that world.

There are a quickly diminishing few still in the Mick Loving fantasy world. There is standing room only in the Mick Hating fantasy world. One group or the other will be proven right and whoever wins will talk some serious smack.

One thing is apparent. The fanbase will remain fractured and continue to argue until we either find success, or find a new coach.

[MDW79]

Nobody debates those points guys. For goodness sake we all loved the Huggins years. Some of you just take it WAAAAY too far and think way too much of him. I have said many times I still watch Huggs when he's on television. I loved the guy. It doesn't mean he walked on water. He had flaws and underachieved as well. Would I like to be back to the very good level? He!! yes. Let's just not rewrite history to make those years out to be something they weren't. There were a ton of disappointments and years the team did not live up to the hype. Who does that fall on? The coach same as it should now.

I would agree with all of this. Very well said.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Although I'm not sure why you want to bash Cincinnati, your entitled to your opinion and that is exactly what it is, YOUR opinion. If you want to spell out the facts then you also need to list the definition of "elite" in order to see if Cincinnati qualifies. Listing schools that you believe are elite means nothing to me. Longtimer is listing facts as to why he thinks they were elite. Your just trying to force your opinion on everyone. If you had to win a championship in order to qualify as an elite team, then I guess you are right. In my opinion, however, you're wrong.

Can you read? I did list facts way back in the thread. Winning championships is what makes an elite school. A very good school gets tv contracts. Largely because of league affliation. Uc was the flagship of CUSA. Elite schools win titles. UC was an elite school in the 60's. It was very good in the 90's. Duke and UNC went to 7 final fours and won 2 championships and Michigan St. 4 final fours with a championship in the Huggs era while UC flamed out in the 2nd round countless times. How can you even debate this? The Bearcats were simply never at that level. It's not bashing it's just facts.

[cincycpaw]

You're both right. You can argue this, either way, all day. Unfortunately there's no exact criteria for being elite or great . I get both positions, can we all just agree they were pretty damn good and move on?

No kidding. Agree.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Some day in the future, a vision will appear and we will see who is currently occupying the fantasy world...the Mick Lovers...or the Mick Haters. Both sides obviously think the other side is occupying that world.

There are a quickly diminishing few still in the Mick Loving fantasy world. There is standing room only in the Mick Hating fantasy world. One group or the other will be proven right and whoever wins will talk some serious smack.

One thing is apparent. The fanbase will remain fractured and continue to argue until we either find success, or find a new coach.

LT the point you and others miss is you don't have to be anti-Huggins or pro-Cronin to just be honest. I loved Huggins, but some of you paint an untrue pic of those years. I have supported Cronin but think it is now time to pass the baton to another coach and move on. I can see the situation objectively based on reality. Not on what I want it to be. I can be honest that Cronin started behind the 8 ball but hasn't lived up to my expectations as a fan or alum. I can give credit or be critical fairly.

[LongTimer]

Can you read? I did list facts way back in the thread. Winning championships is what makes an elite school. A very good school gets tv contracts. Largely because of league affliation. Uc was the flagship of CUSA. Elite schools win titles. UC was an elite school in the 60's. It was very good in the 90's. duke went to 7 final fours in the Huggs era while UC flamed out in the 2nd round countless times. How can you even debate this? It's not bashing it's just facts.

Well, I guess you just made Villanova and Rollie Massimino an elite program and coach back in the 80s. NC St. and Valvano the same.

It's waaaay more involved than just championships. That is why there are a number of great coaches who never won a championship in the Hall of Fame. As the facts were stated, the college basketball world, media, Jordan, coaches, etc. treated us as elite. Those facts are indisputable. Their actions back then support that. There's no debate that we never closed the deal and won a championship. But there are many well-documented reasons why it never happened. That bad luck does not diminish in any way what we were. Whether we were very good, damn good, pretty good, amazing, or elite comes down to personal opinion and who really cares. You finally defined elite as championships. I defined it much broader. We are now to the point of arbitration. I guess we need to find an expert to settle the argument.

[MDW79]

Well, I guess you just made Villanova and Rollie Massimino an elite program and coach back in the 80s. NC St. and Valvano the same.

It's waaaay more involved than just championships. That is why there are a number of great coaches who never won a championship in the Hall of Fame. As the facts were stated, the college basketball world, media, Jordan, coaches, etc. treated us as elite. Those facts are indisputable. Their actions back then support that. There's no debate that we never closed the deal and won a championship. But there are many well-documented reasons why it never happened. That bad luck does not diminish in any way what we were. Whether we were very good, damn good, pretty good, amazing, or elite comes down to personal opinion and who really cares. You finally defined elite as championships. I defined it much broader. We are now to the point of arbitration. I guess we need to find an expert to settle the argument.

I think he defined elite as championships from the get go. Just sayin.

[MI Bearcat]

Can you read? I did list facts way back in the thread. Winning championships is what makes an elite school. A very good school gets tv contracts. Largely because of league affliation. Uc was the flagship of CUSA. Elite schools win titles. UC was an elite school in the 60's. It was very good in the 90's. Duke went to 7 final fours and won 2 championships and Michigan St. 4 final fours with a championship in the Huggs era while UC flamed out in the 2nd round countless times. How can you even debate this? It's not bashing it's just facts.

The results are facts but the interpretation is still your opinion.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Well, I guess you just made Villanova and Rollie Massimino an elite program and coach back in the 80s. NC St. and Valvano the same.

It's waaaay more involved than just championships. That is why there are a number of great coaches who never won a championship in the Hall of Fame. As the facts were stated, the college basketball world, media, Jordan, coaches, etc. treated us as elite. Those facts are indisputable. Their actions back then support that. There's no debate that we never closed the deal and won a championship. But there are many well-documented reasons why it never happened. That bad luck does not diminish in any way what we were. Whether we were very good, damn good, pretty good, amazing, or elite comes down to personal opinion and who really cares. You finally defined elite as championships. I defined it much broader. We are now to the point of arbitration. I guess we need to find an expert to settle the argument.

Elite = the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons or representing the most choice or select; best. As much as I love my Bearcats for you or anyone to say they were in the same league as UNC (7 final 4's 2 championships), Duke (7 final 4's 2 championships, Kansas (4 final 4's), and Michigan St (4 final 4's 1 championship) during those years just puzzles me. The only "reason" of legitimacy is the Kenyon Martin injury. That's a single season and it was not a guarantee. Mich St. was pretty good that year too and had an awesome coach. There are many people in all Halls of Fame that weren't the best. They too were very good. The schools mentioned here and in past posts were better or the best more consistently during those 16 years. We'll move on.

[MI Bearcat]

Elite = the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons or representing the most choice or select; best. As much as I love my Bearcats for you or anyone to say they were in the same league as UNC (7 final 4's 2 championships), Duke (7 final 4's 2 championships, Kansas (4 final 4's), and Michigan St (4 final 4's 1 championship) during those years just puzzles me. We'll move on.

I will admit we were not as elite as those teams, but still elite nonetheless. How many total teams are allowed into the elite club?

[MDW79]

Does the internet affect a coach's career?

[CincyEngGrad02]

Let's talk about uneducated for a sec. It was that perception that led to the dismissal of your beloved savior. It obviously meant alot!! So I would say the people that think it didn't matter what others thought are the uneducated ones.

The lot of you Hugginites can't debate because you HAVE NOTHING TO STAND ON...lol. You guys can't touch this...just stop you're embarrassing yourselves.

Its a shame you had a decent point that we could have debated, but then you finished with that d-bag statement.

Hugginites
lol
you can't touch this


wtf?

[Bearcat Jeff]

I will admit we were not as elite as those teams, but still elite nonetheless. How many total teams are allowed into the elite club?

Point is there are more besides these and to LT's point a single season does not make a long term (16 yr. for example) elite. So to get the truly best or elite you cut it once it's watered down. 1 final 4 in 16 years would be watering it down. Very good, not elite.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Its a shame you had a decent point that we could have debated, but then you finished with that d-bag statement.

Hugginites
lol
you can't touch this


wtf?

Lighten up it was a joke.

[LongTimer]

Does the internet affect a coach's career?

Yes it does. Apparently, it just turned one coach from elite to very good. 2 more coaches went from below average to elite. And, many Hall of Fame coaches were reduced from Elite to only very good. The internet is a powerful tool!

[MI Bearcat]

Point is there are more besides these and to LT's point a single season does not make a long term (16 yr. for example) elite. So to get the truly best or elite you cut it once it's watered down. 1 final 4 in 16 years would be watering it down. Very good, not elite.

I know your point. You can easily look at whatever stats that support your point and ignore others. Point is, in the end it's still your opinion. No sense arguing. GO CATS!

[Bearcat Jeff]

Yes it does. Apparently, it just turned one coach from elite to very good. 2 more coaches went from below average to elite. And, many Hall of Fame coaches were reduced from Elite to only very good. The internet is a powerful tool!

How's it go? "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought...." Oh well, you get the point.

[Bearcat Jeff]

I know your point. You can easily look at whatever stats that support your point and ignore others. Point is, in the end it's still your opinion. No sense arguing. GO CATS!

Go Cats!! ......................

[mikep]

So where exactly am I allowed to go and talk honestly about UC hoops? I think loving the program means that you give an honest assessment of it and try to improve it. Right now UC is the 4th best program in Ohio behind OSU XU and Dayton. It seems like this board is interested in propping up a coach who more and more seems to be in way over his head. Am I supposed to pretend he has improved 1 players game since he has been here?

[Carin's Dad]

That is why there are a number of great coaches who never won a championship in the Hall of Fame. A very small number and Huggins won't be one of them unless he wins a championship. Tark's not in with a championship. Huggins has baggage but not as bad as Tark's, so he can get in IF he wins a championship.

That being said, Huggins is a great coach and I wish we still had him, but we don't.

[MDW79]

A very small number and Huggins won't be one of them unless he wins a championship. Tark's not in with a championship. Huggins has baggage but not as bad as Tark's, so he can get in IF he wins a championship.

That being said, Huggins is a great coach and I wish we still had him, but we don't.

He's in, guaranteed. Way too much coaching still ahead of him, at least 5 years, if not 10. Those numbers will not be able to be denied. Tark's baggage is whole lot different than Huggs, his affected the integrity of the game. Big, big, HUGE difference.

[Carin's Dad]

He's in, guaranteed. Way too much coaching still ahead of him, at least 5 years, if not 10. Those numbers will not be able to be denied. Tark's baggage is whole lot different than Huggs, his affected the integrity of the game. Big, big, HUGE difference.No way he's guaranteed in. Not w/o a championship. Getting in w/o a championship is very much the exception, no matter how many wins you have.

Of course it's a pretty small sample to compare to. Not many coaches have racked up as many wins as Huggs w/o winning at least one championship. :D

Here's the link. Find some coaches who got in simply by winning a lot of games. Not many, if any. http://www.hoophall.com/hall-of-famers-index/

[MDW79]

No way he's guaranteed in. Not w/o a championship. Getting in w/o a championship is very much the exception, no matter how many wins you have.

Of course it's a pretty small sample to compare to. Not many coaches have racked up as many wins as Huggs w/o winning at least one championship. :D

Wouldn't be totally shocked to see him win one this year. If he's got 10 years left, you better believe he'll have a team that has a "reasonable" shot at least half of those years. Reasonable = top 4 seed, BE tested (something he never had before) In my mind, he's golden when it comes to the HOF. To each his own though, we'll have to wait and see.

[Carin's Dad]

Wouldn't be totally shocked to see him win one this year. If he's got 10 years left, you better believe he'll have a team that has a "reasonable" shot at least half of those years. Reasonable = top 4 seed, BE tested (something he never had before) In my mind, he's golden when it comes to the HOF. To each his own though, we'll have to wait and see.I agree - I think he's got one in him. Who would have ever thought he'd have the 5th ranked offense in the country? I do think leaving UC was probably good for his career.