Rob Oller commentary: Cincinnati a tough nut for Ohio State to crack

[cpawstoney]

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2010/02/04/oller_2-4.ART_ART_02-04-10_C1_NAGGAO5.html?sid=101

I hope the Bucks continue to struggle recruiting in town. Notre Dame too!!! Butch and Kerry need to keep the heat turned up!

[applegbt]

"...after all Cincinnati is really Northern Kentucky...or at least acts like it."

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, as someone who is a Cincinnati transplant. But WTF is that supposed to mean?

[MST83]

Remember they think they are THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY. By that they mean the only important one. I say FT.

Here is another one:

"Cincinnati is weird. It's such a different town," said Frey, a St. Xavier graduate who chose Ohio State in part because he clicked with coach Earle Bruce. "It's only two hours away, but it's always had a Kentucky influence and a huge Notre Dame influence and a (University of Cincinnati) influence."

How stupid is Frey? He seems surprised that UC has influence. DAH.

Such a different town. Yes it is. Cincinnati is more sophisticated than Columbus, Mentor, Galion, Newark, Sandusky, etc.





"...after all Cincinnati is really Northern Kentucky...or at least acts like it."

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, as someone who is a Cincinnati transplant. But WTF is that supposed to mean?

[bobestes]

"...after all Cincinnati is really Northern Kentucky...or at least acts like it."

Cincinnatians are a prideful and provincial bunch. Quotes like that only serve to build the wall between Cincinnati and the rest of the state even higher.

[cmm27]

Cincinnati is a crossroads town. It is eather the most southern of the "northern" cities, or the most northern of the "southern" cities depending on who you ask. Because of its location, it has influences from Indiana and Kentucky, but at the same time is still loyally and pridefully part of Ohio. It is, easily, the most historical of the major cities in the state, and has a long sports history as well. As a city, we are almost fanatical in support of those we claim and completely heartless to those we don't.

That said, the rest of Ohio is primarily a post-industrial or agrarian culture that is not really reflected here in Cincinnati. The nearest similiar place that I've been to has been Cleveland, but there is a rivalry between the cities that keeps them from understanding each other. It is really difficult for most Ohio State fans and players to understand why they are not accepted completely here like they are elsewhere. Whole volumes could be written about the uniqueness of Cincinnati and its population, and how nobody else gets it (i.e. Gold Star vs. Skyline debate). Personally, I don't sweat it when I see or hear comments like that, and I like that Ohio State is finding it more and more difficult to recruit this area. However, I feel that comments like that will make it more difficult to recruit here in the future.

[ou_bearcat]

Cincinnati > Ohio

Who cares about the rest of the state

[Racinejake]

Such a different town. Yes it is. Cincinnati is more sophisticated than Columbus, Mentor, Galion, Newark, Sandusky, etc.

I don't know, according to many on the bucknuts board, Columbus is much more 'cosmopolitan' than Cincinnati. You know, kinda like San Francisco is to Hazard, KY. They also say that Cincinnati has always been jealous of Columbus because their economy was built on 'sexy' industries while Cincinnati's was built on diapers and detergent. You can learn a lot over on that board.

[cmm27]

Its impossible for the city of Cincinnati to have always been jealous of Columbus, unless way back in the late 1700's they were aware that Columbus was going to, one day, exist.

[blackattack]

I don't know, according to many on the bucknuts board, Columbus is much more 'cosmopolitan' than Cincinnati. You know, kinda like San Francisco is to Hazard, KY. They also say that Cincinnati has always been jealous of Columbus because their economy was built on 'sexy' industries while Cincinnati's was built on diapers and detergent. You can learn a lot over on that board.

No doubt Columbus (i.e. "Cow Town") was built on sexy industries........like metal stamping, trucking firms, and dairy products. Sounds sexy to me. Take Ohio State out (and the money they bring to the city) and Columbus would be about the size of Akron. Hardly "sexy".

[colocat]

How stupid is Frey? He seems surprised that UC has influence. DAH.



I missed where Frey seemed surprised. How do you read special surprise for UC when he listed them alongside Notre Dame for influence? I agree that the unnecessary Kentucky comment at the end only serves to fuel provincial feelings, but the article was by and large true.

[Alpha5]

No doubt Columbus (i.e. "Cow Town") was built on sexy industries........like metal stamping, trucking firms, and dairy products. Sounds sexy to me. Take Ohio State out (and the money they bring to the city) and Columbus would be about the size of Akron. Hardly "sexy".
You forgot couch burning

[ucmba2002]

No doubt Columbus (i.e. "Cow Town") was built on sexy industries........like metal stamping, trucking firms, and dairy products. Sounds sexy to me. Take Ohio State out (and the money they bring to the city) and Columbus would be about the size of Akron. Hardly "sexy".

exactly...tell columbus to call us when they have $76 Billion company like Kroger or a $79 Billion dollar company like P&G have a Coprorate HQ in their cow town


columbus morons.....enjoy your 'sexy' professional soccer team

[cmm27]

Don't forget their sexy NHL team.

[CaptainProbasco]

* Deleted *

[CaptainProbasco]

"...after all Cincinnati is really Northern Kentucky...or at least acts like it."

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, as someone who is a Cincinnati transplant. But WTF is that supposed to mean?

I'd agree that in pretty much every way that matters, we are more like Kentucky than Ohio. SW Ohio has Kentucky geology and Kentucky weather. Our economy is much less industrial than the rest of Ohio. Our politics are dominated by fiscal conservatives (like Kentucky and Indiana) rather than union Democrats (like the rest of Ohio). SW Ohio was settled 20-30 years before the rest of the state, at around the same time Kentucky was being settled, and doesn't have nearly the Southern and Eastern European influences that are common in the rest of the Ohio. Our local music scene is heavily bluegrass, rather than the heavy metal of Cleveland. Nearly everyone here plays basketball and few people play hockey, which is more like Kentucky and Indiana than the rest of Ohio (as I found out to my great shock my freshman year of college in Cleveland).

It's fine by me. I'd rather be associated with Louisville's charm and Lexington's horse farms than the cultural wasteland that is Columbus or the economic trainwreck that is Cleveland.

[JasonS]

exactly...tell columbus to call us when they have $76 Billion company like Kroger or a $79 Billion dollar company like P&G have a Coprorate HQ in their cow town


columbus morons.....enjoy your 'sexy' professional soccer team

Hey if you want to bash Buckeye fans, I am all for it, but to bash the city of Columbus for no reason and with incorrect information is ridiculous and just shows your ignorance. I have lived in Columbus for almost 3 years now and with the exception of annoying Buckeye fans, I really like it. To say there are no corporate HQs in Columbus is both uninformed and ignorant. In 2008, Ohio was ranked #5 in the nation for headquarters of Fortune 500 companies, with Columbus home to the most in the state. (http://www.odod.state.oh.us/research//files/b100000003.pdf)

Companies like JPMorgan Chase, Nationwide Insurance, Limited Brands, Hexion Specialty Chemicals and Wendy's all have corporate HQs in Columbus (and those are just off the top of my head). Oh, and if you want to include the surrounding suburbs, Dublin is the HQ for Cardinal Health which is an $81.9 billion company. Check some facts before you make yourself look like a moron.

[jkwuc89]

Let's be nice please. No need to call each other morons.

[JasonS]

Let's be nice please. No need to call each other morons.

Point taken. My bad.

[CaptainProbasco]

To say there are no corporate HQs in Columbus is both uninformed and ignorant. In 2008, Ohio was ranked #5 in the nation for headquarters of Fortune 500 companies, with Columbus home to the most in the state. (http://www.odod.state.oh.us/research//files/b100000003.pdf)

Companies like JPMorgan Chase, Nationwide Insurance, Limited Brands, Hexion Specialty Chemicals and Wendy's all have corporate HQs in Columbus (and those are just off the top of my head). Oh, and if you want to include the surrounding suburbs, Dublin is the HQ for Cardinal Health which is an $81.9 billion company. Check some facts before you make yourself look like a moron.

Sorry, but your facts are incorrect

Fortune 500 List (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/states/OH.html)

Total in Columbus MSA: 6, with 3 located in downtown
Total in Cincinnati MSA: 8, with 5 located in downtown


A more accurate comparison of jobs would be to compare number of workers.

Largest Employers in Columbus (http://b700441e9603e56472e76fceed3901483f5d7759.gripeleme nts.com/pdf/econ_dev/fact-sheets/largest_employers.pdf)
Largest Employers in Hamilton County (http://www.cincinnatichamber.com/liv_b.aspx?menu_id=180&id=7570)

Both cities have lots of health care, retail, and local government workers, and we'll ignore them because they primarily serve the local region so the numbers are probably similar. Education numbers are roughly equal. You have 21,000 workers at OSU. UC and Miami combine for 20,000. If you add in NKU, Xavier, and Capitol, there's more in Cincy, but it's a bigger region.

The differences: Columbus is dominated by government, with 35,000 people working for the state or federal government. There are also 30,000 "financial services" workers. Are these exciting, Wall St. type jobs or boring desk jobs? I'm guessing mostly the latter. You'll notice that Cardinal Health only has 3,600 workers in the region, so they might be 18th on the Fortune 500 by revenue but they don't have much impact in the region.

GE Aviation, P&G, 5/3, and Kroger top Cincinnati's list with 43,000 workers between them. However, GE and P&G hire a lot of contractors, so their counts do not show their true impact on the region. On the other hand, many of Kroger and 5/3 workers are in the stores, so their influence is likely overstated.

Conclusion: You're talking about an economy driven by government and insurance vs an economy driven by marketing prowess and jet engine research. If the question is, which is more exciting, I know which one I'd pick.

[cmm27]

Conclusion: You're talking about an economy driven by government and insurance vs an economy driven by marketing prowess and jet engine research. If the question is, which is more exciting, I know which one I'd pick.

You like those exciting desk jobs for the government as much as I do? Score.

[JasonS]

So now you want to look at largest employers? Make up your mind. I was disputing your fact that Columbus was a cow town and there are more corporate HQs in Columbus. By the way, GE Aviation doesn't count as a corporate HQ. It is a division HQ. GE Corporate's HQ is in Conneticuit.

[jadam222]

I don't know, according to many on the bucknuts board, Columbus is much more 'cosmopolitan' than Cincinnati. You know, kinda like San Francisco is to Hazard, KY. They also say that Cincinnati has always been jealous of Columbus because their economy was built on 'sexy' industries while Cincinnati's was built on diapers and detergent. You can learn a lot over on that board.

I have lived in Cincy for a total of 19 years. There are many things I like and some I don't. Honestly, I think generally speaking, the people in Columbus are more cosmo than in Cincinnati. Having traveled quite a bit to other cities, I think Cincinnati's biggest weakness is its rigidness. When corporations think about relocating to Ohio, Columbus is where they think about stopping. I love Cincy's traditions, architecture and history and I am happy here - for the most part (but I would probably be elsewhere if not for the wife). However, far too many here wear those things on their sleeves with the belief that they have no need to change. Now don't get me wrong, it is a great place and I may end up being here for the rest of my life. However, I am not going to kid myself that other places are not better in many ways.

I used to think Columbus was a boring place too. That is a false assessment. I do know that the people are a bit more open minded there. I love my Bearcats and will be holding on to my tickets for good but this is all based on my experiences working and living in Cincy for a long time. I just don't see much growth and opportunity here. Yes, we have the traditional/historical companies. However, in order to survive long-term, new innovations must take place.

[Racinejake]

I have lived in Cincy for a total of 19 years. There are many things I like and some I don't. Honestly, I think generally speaking, the people in Columbus are more cosmo than in Cincinnati. Having traveled quite a bit to other cities, I think Cincinnati's biggest weakness is its rigidness. When corporations think about relocating to Ohio, Columbus is where they think about stopping. I love Cincy's traditions, architecture and history and I am happy here - for the most part (but I would probably be elsewhere if not for the wife). However, far too many here wear those things on their sleeves with the belief that they have no need to change. Now don't get me wrong, it is a great place and I may end up being here for the rest of my life. However, I am not going to kid myself that other places are not better in many ways.

I used to think Columbus was a boring place too. That is a false assessment. I do know that the people are a bit more open minded there. I love my Bearcats and will be holding on to my tickets for good but this is all based on my experiences working and living in Cincy for a long time. I just don't see much growth and opportunity here. Yes, we have the traditional/historical companies. However, in order to survive long-term, new innovations must take place.

I don't disagree with much of what you are saying. There are different things about each city that appeal to different people. Sportswise, Ohio State is the only game in town in Columbus outside of the fringe the go to hockey or soccer games. I enjoy having professional football and baseball in my hometown even though I'm not a huge Bengals fan. Also, every time I work in our office in Columbus, it just seems like the downtown area is completely dead. In Cincinnati on a nice day, you can't even get a seat out on the square to have lunch. It probably is a result of some of the biggest employers like Cardinal Health being located outside of the city and the big companies here being located downtown. I also believe the development of the Banks will also be a huge boost to this city as well.

[Racinejake]

Companies like JPMorgan Chase, Nationwide Insurance, Limited Brands, Hexion Specialty Chemicals and Wendy's all have corporate HQs in Columbus (and those are just off the top of my head). Oh, and if you want to include the surrounding suburbs, Dublin is the HQ for Cardinal Health which is an $81.9 billion company. Check some facts before you make yourself look like a moron.

JPMorgan Chase is headquartered in New York City.

[bobestes]

Was doing research up in Columbus this week, up there for the first time in 10-15 years. Was really impressed with what they've done with the areas between OSU and Downtown, and even east of downtown before Bexley. Seemed like a lot of really livable urban neighborhoods, with close proximity to bars, shopping, etc.

I'd live there for the right job offer, I guess.

[bcbearcat12]

Hey if you want to bash Buckeye fans, I am all for it, but to bash the city of Columbus for no reason and with incorrect information is ridiculous and just shows your ignorance. I have lived in Columbus for almost 3 years now and with the exception of annoying Buckeye fans, I really like it. To say there are no corporate HQs in Columbus is both uninformed and ignorant. In 2008, Ohio was ranked #5 in the nation for headquarters of Fortune 500 companies, with Columbus home to the most in the state. (http://www.odod.state.oh.us/research//files/b100000003.pdf)

Companies like JPMorgan Chase, Nationwide Insurance, Limited Brands, Hexion Specialty Chemicals and Wendy's all have corporate HQs in Columbus (and those are just off the top of my head). Oh, and if you want to include the surrounding suburbs, Dublin is the HQ for Cardinal Health which is an $81.9 billion company. Check some facts before you make yourself look like a moron.

CNN says your facts are incorrect too http://www.fortunesmallbusiness.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/cities/

My opinion is Columbus is more sophisticated, but i'll take cincinnnati with its history and character over columbus anyday.

[CaptainProbasco]

My friend who grew up in Columbus and now lives in Cincy described the difference like this:

"Let's say someone wants to build a new mall in town. In Cincinnati, they'd worry about the traffic it will bring, the scenery it replaces, and a million other changes the mall would cause. In Columbus, they'd bulldoze Music Hall in a second if it was in the way."

Basically, he was saying that people in Cincy are often resistant to change, but people in Columbus don't respect the past and often embrace change for the sake of change.

[catscratchfever]

columbus sucks..

[Carin's Dad]

The most famous movie about Columbus: Goodbye Columbus. The most famous movie about Cincinnati? The Cincinnati Kid with (the man) Steve McQueen. Enough said.

[Helicopter]

From an oil company perspective, C-Bus is the fastest growing market in the midwest. Only getting beat out by Florida and Houston/Dallas/Ftworth at a national level.
Sure the Buckeyes are scum and all their fans are the ones in sweat pants at Wal-mart but you can't deny people are moving there in droves.

[UcatsRick]

Having lifelong connections to both Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky, I can tell you that most native northern Kentuckians hate being thought of as part of Cincinnati, and would prefer being thought of as part of NKY.

[ME80]

Having lifelong connections to both Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky, I can tell you that most native northern Kentuckians hate being thought of as part of Cincinnati, and would prefer being thought of as part of NKY.

Same goes for those on the Ohio side, we never want to be associated with Kentucky :D

[Pruke]

The point of all this is?

[ODDMANOUT]

The point of all this is?

Give that man a cigar.

[BearcatAlum1]

Sorry, but your facts are incorrect

Fortune 500 List (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/states/OH.html)

Total in Columbus MSA: 6, with 3 located in downtown
Total in Cincinnati MSA: 8, with 5 located in downtown


A more accurate comparison of jobs would be to compare number of workers.

Largest Employers in Columbus (http://b700441e9603e56472e76fceed3901483f5d7759.gripeleme nts.com/pdf/econ_dev/fact-sheets/largest_employers.pdf)
Largest Employers in Hamilton County (http://www.cincinnatichamber.com/liv_b.aspx?menu_id=180&id=7570)

Both cities have lots of health care, retail, and local government workers, and we'll ignore them because they primarily serve the local region so the numbers are probably similar. Education numbers are roughly equal. You have 21,000 workers at OSU. UC and Miami combine for 20,000. If you add in NKU, Xavier, and Capitol, there's more in Cincy, but it's a bigger region.

The differences: Columbus is dominated by government, with 35,000 people working for the state or federal government. There are also 30,000 "financial services" workers. Are these exciting, Wall St. type jobs or boring desk jobs? I'm guessing mostly the latter. You'll notice that Cardinal Health only has 3,600 workers in the region, so they might be 18th on the Fortune 500 by revenue but they don't have much impact in the region.

GE Aviation, P&G, 5/3, and Kroger top Cincinnati's list with 43,000 workers between them. However, GE and P&G hire a lot of contractors, so their counts do not show their true impact on the region. On the other hand, many of Kroger and 5/3 workers are in the stores, so their influence is likely overstated.

Conclusion: You're talking about an economy driven by government and insurance vs an economy driven by marketing prowess and jet engine research. If the question is, which is more exciting, I know which one I'd pick.

Great post and GREAT conclusion.

[ucmba2002]

Hey if you want to bash Buckeye fans, I am all for it, but to bash the city of Columbus for no reason and with incorrect information is ridiculous and just shows your ignorance. I have lived in Columbus for almost 3 years now and with the exception of annoying Buckeye fans, I really like it. To say there are no corporate HQs in Columbus is both uninformed and ignorant. In 2008, Ohio was ranked #5 in the nation for headquarters of Fortune 500 companies, with Columbus home to the most in the state. (http://www.odod.state.oh.us/research//files/b100000003.pdf)

Companies like JPMorgan Chase, Nationwide Insurance, Limited Brands, Hexion Specialty Chemicals and Wendy's all have corporate HQs in Columbus (and those are just off the top of my head). Oh, and if you want to include the surrounding suburbs, Dublin is the HQ for Cardinal Health which is an $81.9 billion company. Check some facts before you make yourself look like a moron.

where was my incorrect information?

let me give you some facts:

The Cincinnati metropolitan area has 10 Fortune 500 company headquarters, a number that provides benefits far beyond just jobs, a University of Cincinnati analysis says.

UC's Economics Center for Education & Research indexed urban metropolitan statistical areas based on the concentration of amenities like theaters, arts and amusement parks, as well as education, transportation and health-care services, compared to its number of Fortune 500 headquarters.

The Cincinnati MSA's index of 183.3 ranks it above other Midwestern cities like Indianapolis (176.9), Columbus (170.4) and Akron (159.1), the center said in a news release.

In fact, Cincinnati has more such companies - 4.85 per million population - than New York (4.48), Chicago (3.04) and Los Angeles (1.68).

The Tri-State's Fortune 500 firms includes: Procter & Gamble (NYSE: PG); Kroger Co. (NYSE: KR); Macy's (NYSE: M); Ashland (NYSE: ASH); Fifth Third Bancorp (NASDAQ: FITB); Omnicare (NYSE: OCR); AK Steel Holding (NYSE: AKS); Western & Southern Financial; Cincinnati Financial (NASDAQ: CINF) and Chiquita Brands International (NYSE: CQB).

[ucmba2002]

not sure why columbus people are so insecure....just face it Cincinnati is a better city