The benching of Yancy

[Bearcatfan47]

Obviously anyone who watched yesterday's game had to wonder where Yancy was in the final 7 minutes and all of overtime. The fans at 5/3rd arena we're at a loss, most people assumed that Mick was trying to teach Yancy yet another lesson for lack of hustle. Now that you read the story that it was for defensive reasons can anyone defend these actions?

Someone please help me make sense of this decision. At the point Yancy went out he was our leading scorer and was getting to the basket with ease since he was taller than anyone Marquette could throw at him. Mick says that Yancy was getting exposed defensively and maybe that is true. What about the fact that he was dominating Marquette offensively?

Someone please make sense of this....anyone??

[PK2]

I'm no coach but I thought at the end of games you play your best players no matter what. Even if you end up having to trade baskets back and forth. And like someone said earlier, they killed us with their 3s and it's not like Yancy is out defending those most of the time anyway. At least try to make offensive/ defensive substitutions when you can. Totally benching him makes no sense to me.

[anbuc88]

If the 5 that were out on the court weren't performing well then I would be more critical of benching Yancy. They were still in a position to win at the end of the game and would have if they hit their free throw. When MU elected to start fouling would you have wanted Yancy in the game. I would not have. My only criticism is that he and LS were not in for the last play in regulation. I would have had the best offensive lineup on the court at that time.

[Bearcatfan47]

If the 5 that were out on the court weren't performing well then I would be more critical of benching Yancy. They were still in a position to win at the end of the game and would have if they hit their free throw.

Really?? The offense stalled and score on 7 points in the final 7 minutes of the game. Mick said they were playing well without him, just because we were still in a position to win or tie at the end doesn't mean that we were playing well. We should have won that game by 5 points and probably could have if our best players were on the court.

[BigDaddyCornHusker]

Even reading Mick's comments, it makes no sense. He said that it would be unfair to Yancy and to the rest of the team after having him sit for so long. Well... the team lost, so obviously it was unfair to them to sit him. I'm baffled on this one.

[UCamry]

Yancy was caught giggling and laughing on the bench towards the end of OT......

He is not the only one who thinks Mick's coaching is laughable....

[levydl]

There were, I think, 3 possessions in a row where Marquette got an offensive rebound with Yancy just standing around. Thomas drives me insane with his constant fumbling of the ball, but he came in and dominated the defensive glass. Gates did not have a single defensive rebound in the game. So I understand taking Gates out, to a certain extent. It's not putting him back in at all in the last 12 minutes that I don't get. Offense - defense subbing at least.

[PK2]

Yancy was caught giggling and laughing on the bench towards the end of OT......

He is not the only one who thinks Mick's coaching is laughable....

Yeah I was surprised when I saw that too. I guess we can't fault Mick though if Yancy is not acting like he wants to be back in there. Any truly competitive player would have been fuming on the bench until he's put back in the game.

[anbuc88]

Really?? The offense stalled and score on 7 points in the final 7 minutes of the game. Mick said they were playing well without him, just because we were still in a position to win or tie at the end doesn't mean that we were playing well. We should have won that game by 5 points and probably could have if our best players were on the court.

Yeah, they were playing well. Regardless if they scored 7 points in the last 7 minutes, they had a 3 point lead with less than 30 seconds left. That speaks to the defense that this group was playing. Yancy may have increased the number of points that they scored, but may also have increased the number of points that MU scored. Bottom line, if they had hit their free throws, no one would have cared that he sat the last 8 minutes of the game. They would have praised Cronin for staying with the group that led them to victory.

[catscratchfever]

If the 5 that were out on the court weren't performing well then I would be more critical of benching Yancy. They were still in a position to win at the end of the game and would have if they hit their free throw. When MU elected to start fouling would you have wanted Yancy in the game. I would not have. My only criticism is that he and LS were not in for the last play in regulation. I would have had the best offensive lineup on the court at that time.

So you would rather have Ibrahima Thomas in there? The guy who is Guaranteed to miss at least one of every two foul shots he takes?

[catscratchfever]

Yeah I was surprised when I saw that too. I guess we can't fault Mick though if Yancy is not acting like he wants to be back in there. Any truly competitive player would have been fuming on the bench until he's put back in the game.

Lance was PISSED!

[Billy Don]

Even reading Mick's comments, it makes no sense. He said that it would be unfair to Yancy and to the rest of the team after having him sit for so long. Well... the team lost, so obviously it was unfair to them to sit him. I'm baffled on this one.

It's little things like that which make the difference between a winning coach and a losing coach. By that logic I guess any player who sit the bench the first half couldn't play any in the second half because he had sit for so long. So Yancy gives up 2 easy points on defense but gets you 6 points on scoring and rebounds. I and any other winning coach let him play and take the 6 points. A coach does his thing during practice, not during the game when it can cause you to lose. For example the WV coach has an incline treadmill set up during practice. A player makes a mistake or does something the coach doesn't like he runs the treadmill for like 20 minutes. During the game if one of your best players makes a mistake you point it out to him and let him play through it. You don't bench him for the rest of the game. Bottom line, if Yancy plays as many minutes as he can get up and down the floor UC wins by 8-10 points. For the players that played their heart out and was denied a win because one of their best players was put on the bench is a shame.

[anbuc88]

It's little things like that which make the difference between a winning coach and a losing coach. By that logic I guess any player who sit the bench the first half couldn't play any in the second half because he had sit for so long. So Yancy gives up 2 easy points on defense but gets you 6 points on scoring and rebounds. I and any other winning coach let him play and take the 6 points. A coach does his thing during practice, not during the game when it can cause you to lose. For example the WV coach has an incline treadmill set up during practice. A player makes a mistake or does something the coach doesn't like he runs the treadmill for like 20 minutes. During the game if one of your best players makes a mistake you point it out to him and let him play through it. You don't bench him for the rest of the game. Bottom line, if Yancy plays as many minutes as he can get up and down the floor UC wins by 8-10 points. For the players that played their heart out and was denied a win because one of their best players was put on the bench is a shame.

I don't think it is as cut and dry as this. Bottom line, if they hit their free throws they win whether Yancy played or not. And people would be on here praising Cronin for sitting Yancy if he does not want to play hard, rebound, etc, etc, etc.

[RobPoppeil]

I don't think it is as cut and dry as this. Bottom line, if they hit their free throws they win whether Yancy played or not. And people would be on here praising Cronin for sitting Yancy if he does not want to play hard, rebound, etc, etc, etc.

And Thomas is a 55% free throw shooter!!! Since he isn't going to hit free throws you had better get some offense in there.

[cincycpaw]

I don't think it is as cut and dry as this. Bottom line, if they hit their free throws they win whether Yancy played or not. And people would be on here praising Cronin for sitting Yancy if he does not want to play hard, rebound, etc, etc, etc.

I always see these posts..."if" UC won then you'd be praising Mick. No kidding, that would mean his coaching decisions were working. But guess what? UC is not winning. UC is 6-8 in the Big East with wins over powerhouses like Notre Dame, Providence, South Florida (well, 1 win anyhow), and Rutgers. The only Big East team Mick has beaten that still has an outside shot at making the NCAA tournament is UCONN. That win on the road, while ugly, should have been the start of a great run to end the season. But "ifs" and "should haves" don't mean poop. W's do, but Mick doesn't get enough of those.

[Bearcatfan47]

I don't think it is as cut and dry as this. Bottom line, if they hit their free throws they win whether Yancy played or not. And people would be on here praising Cronin for sitting Yancy if he does not want to play hard, rebound, etc, etc, etc.

Mick didn't bench Yancy for not playing hard. He never said that he did so why does that assumption keep being made. The kid had 14 points and was playing a good game up until that point.

Another thing to note is that if we didn't inbound the ball to Ibrahima Thomas in a situation where we knew we were going to get fouled we have a better chance of making those free throws, and that inbounds play came off of a timeout called by Mick. There is no logic or take to defend the numerous coaching mistakes that were made by Mick in that game.

[Scheids21]

Yancy and Steve could not move their feet enough to keep up with Marquettes #5. Whether Yancy's offensive abilities are enough to make up for that is up for debate.

I do have to say though, Yancy really looked like he didnt give a *****. yesterday for the most part.

[Billy Don]

I do have to say though, Yancy really looked like he didnt give a *****. yesterday for the most part.

Yea I'd like to see Mick walk up to Yancy and tell him he was going to kick his a$$ if he didn't get serious. That would scare him plenty! Well maybe not.

[Bearcatfan47]

Yancy and Steve could not move their feet enough to keep up with Marquettes #5. Whether Yancy's offensive abilities are enough to make up for that is up for debate.

I do have to say though, Yancy really looked like he didnt give a *****. yesterday for the most part.

Again, there seems to be some sort of feeling by some of the people here than Yancy is lazy and doesn't want to play. Mick has "disciplined" Yancy for this a few times in the past and apparently his message still isn't getting through. At what point to you transfer the blame away from the 20 year old kid and point it toward the man who is supposed to be leading him and teaching him the right way to play the game?? At a certain point it becomes painfully clear that Mick is not getting thru to the guys on this team.

[BeastUC]

The point was about matchups,but it seems we allowed Marquette to control that part of the game.
We had a better matchup posting up and scoring over those small guards/wings.
Mick also didn't seem to sit Vaughn the rest of the game when his guy easily got past him or got wide open.Our team period wasn't quick enough to stop Marquette.

Could yall imagine Frank Martins reaction if he had Gates on the bench and he looked and seen him laughing it up.

[RobPoppeil]

I think Mick was right. If Gates would have been in at the end, that guy would have had a 10 ft lead on his breakaway dunk instead of a 5 ft lead. Those are the differences between a W and a L.

[bearcat033]

Mick has no idea what he is doing. Ok if he was struggling defensively, you have to look at how much more it's hurting having him out on the offensive side. Benching him and Lance is stupid. I am not a fan of Mick Cronin and he needs to go ASAP.

[westsidecat]

So you would rather have Ibrahima Thomas in there? The guy who is Guaranteed to miss at least one of every two foul shots he takes?

Everyone on this team is guaranteed to miss at least one of two free throws.

[Lobot]

What doesn't make sense to me is why he didn't shuttle in Gates for offense/defense substitutions toward the end of the game.

[KY Bearcat]

Yeah I was surprised when I saw that too. I guess we can't fault Mick though if Yancy is not acting like he wants to be back in there. Any truly competitive player would have been fuming on the bench until he's put back in the game.

Agreed...but once again, this shows Cronin's inability to control his players or demand their respect.

[Scheids21]

Again, there seems to be some sort of feeling by some of the people here than Yancy is lazy and doesn't want to play. Mick has "disciplined" Yancy for this a few times in the past and apparently his message still isn't getting through. At what point to you transfer the blame away from the 20 year old kid and point it toward the man who is supposed to be leading him and teaching him the right way to play the game?? At a certain point it becomes painfully clear that Mick is not getting thru to the guys on this team.

Honestly I blame both but mostly Yancy. I dont care if he's twenty. If he cant get up to play Big East basketball then he needs to rethink what he's doing on the court at all.

[bg703]

Gates played early in the second half as the Bearcats lost their 6 point lead and were down 1 when he ultimately came out of the game. Also remember in that strectch early in the second half Marquette was getting offensive rebounds as UC was unable to close out defensively. Gates came out after Marquette grabbed its 6th offensive rebound of the seond half.

Gates was clearly a problem for Marquette at the offensive end but was struggling on defense. I would assume that is the reason Cronin decided to sit Gates. Which makes sense to me.

Maybe Gates should have played a minute or two down the stretch as an offensive substitute, but I'm not convinced Cronin made a grave mistake. Gates is very talented but he also gets tired quickly and is a poor free throw shooter (even by UC standards). Those aren't qualities that usually help you down the stretch in a close game.

Clearly the implication from people critical of Cronin's decision is that if Gates played down the stretch UC would have won. But I think those critics are only recognizing his offensive contribution in the game and not also examining his play defensively. Marquette won a close game because UC missed too many free throws and Hayward made some great shots at the end of regulation and in overtime.

[RobPoppeil]

Clearly the implication from people critical of Cronin's decision is that if Gates played down the stretch UC would have won. But I think those critics are only recognizing his offensive contribution in the game and not also examining his play defensively. Marquette won a close game because UC missed too many free throws and Hayward made some great shots at the end of regulation and in overtime.

Funny how that always happens to Cronin's teams.

[UC/XU fan]

I'm not ready to give up on Mick yet. I am with him 100% for benching Gates. I think he needs kicked off the team for lack of effort and not hustling. That was his reputation in highschool and he's done it 2 years at UC. I think his poor attitude is a big part of this teams reputation. If Huggs benched Gates, nobody would be complaining. And believe me, Huggs would have already kicked him off the team. Gates is not helping this program.

[BasketBySteveLogan]

Mick was not the problem yesterday, nor was he the problem against St Johns, Xavier, and Gonzaga....

He put the guys in position to win these four games... but they missed too many free throws.

The players miss the free throws.

Shut up about Mick already- the players lose the games.

[RobPoppeil]

Mick was not the problem yesterday, nor was he the problem against St Johns, Xavier, and Gonzaga....

He put the guys in position to win these four games... but they missed too many free throws.

The players miss the free throws.

Shut up about Mick already- the players lose the games.

Who signed the players? Who has the team take the ball out to a 54% free throw shooter at the end of the game? Mick that is who.

[BasketBySteveLogan]

Don't see how Mick could magically know these guys would blow free throws in college when they creamed 'em all through high school.

[Bearcat Jeff]

Yancy should have been subbed in and out for offense and defense at a minimum. Lance has tremendous talent but has no clue how to play team basketball. He seems determined to "get his" and it kills offensive flow. When he is passing the ball I love him being in. When he is determined to shoot and not let the game come to him, he ruins what little offense there is. It is incumbent on the coach to teach Lance how to play within an offensive structure.

[catsfan32]

Who signed the players? Who has the team take the ball out to a 54% free throw shooter at the end of the game? Mick that is who.

The first two classes he signed out of desperation. We don't need to go over this everytime do we? This team is really poor at shooting free throws when most of them were decent in high school. I would have to look it up but now that I think of it were any of these guys good free throw shooters in high school besides from Cash (80% i believe). Not to mention our senior leader bricked his gimme free throws, thats what lost this game. If we shoot 75% from the line we win easily!

[Bearcatfan47]

Mick was not the problem yesterday, nor was he the problem against St Johns, Xavier, and Gonzaga....

He put the guys in position to win these four games... but they missed too many free throws.

The players miss the free throws.

Shut up about Mick already- the players lose the games.

When your team fails to execute a simple inbounds play then that falls on the coach's shoulders. Don't forget that Mick called a timeout and set up a play only to have the ball go directly inbounds to Ibrahima Thomas. That is on Mick.

I'd also disagree that he put them in a position to win, by putting his biggest offensive threat on the bench he didn't do everything he could to put the players in the best position to win.

[catsfan32]

When your team fails to execute a simple inbounds play then that falls on the coach's shoulders. Don't forget that Mick called a timeout and set up a play only to have the ball go directly inbounds to Ibrahima Thomas. That is on Mick.

I'd also disagree that he put them in a position to win, by putting his biggest offensive threat on the bench he didn't do everything he could to put the players in the best position to win.

I don't believe that play was designed to go to Thomas as both our first and second option (DV, Cash) were not open. Gates may have been our biggest threat on offense (and by biggest I mean 6'9) but his defense let Marquette get back into the game in the second half. The only thing wrong I think with Mick yesterday was the final possession, he should have subbed in Yancy and Lance and designed a play to drive to the basket.

[Natiwhat]

I can understand some frustrations with the team and how that reflects on the coach, but I think it's ridiculous to look at everything the team does and point it right back to Cronin. He doesn't deserve COY awards, but if you can't at least admit that this team is VERY close to being where we all want it to be, then you're blind or fooling yourself for the sake of your argument. Players make plays. At the end of the game, Hayward hit a huge three to tie the game and put it into overtime with a hand in his face. DV had a similar situation at the end of OT, but was wide open, and bricked his. I don't think Mick's coaching had anything to do with either of those. There are so many plays that determine a game, and to pick and choose only those that you can later pin blame back on MC is intellectually dishonest to the point of being anti-intellectual.

[david aka the TYZ]

I have no problem with Mick benching Yancey or Stephenson. I haven't seen either be a difference maker all year (except Yancey in the win over Notre Dame where he hustled on defense). For all you Huggins lovers out there, he wouldn't play a guy ever that didn't give 100% effort on defense 100% of the time. So quit bringing up what Huggins would've done. I think Mick hasn't had the luxury to bench these players as much as they deserve to be benched because you have to field five guys on the floor. Bottom line is this team lacks the intensity it needs. I put some of that on Mick, but the players should be motivated enough just because of pride. I'll tell you one thing, Yancey won't start hustling on defense or offense by being rewarded with playing time without having to hustle. The fact that Yancey was laughing on the sideline in OT tells you everything about his desire to win. And players like that can rub off on other players. Our team chemistry sucks. Again I can't blame Mick entirely, players need to motivate themselves and a team needs a leader to ensure players don't slack off. We have neither, we blame Mick for everything. I think the players we were forced to bring in Mick's first two years soured our team chemistry and each year has been a continuation. You can see it in our junior class. This team got used to losing and doesn't seem to care.

[cmm27]

Please don't be condescending towards other posters. Everybody is allowed their opinion. Yours is to not lay blame where blame should be lain. That is the joy and curse of a head coach: EVERYTHING is their fault. Also, to imagine that our team would be better off without Gates is a curious thought to have. To remove his 14 points in just over 20 minutes would also be curious to the result of the game. Ridicule his defensive performance as it warrants ridicule. Understand that at the end of the day the team needs to score points, so his offense not being on the court for the final 12 minutes of the game is absurd. Keeping Stephenson out of the game is also curious. Why would you take your most potent non-post weapon out of the game? It seems to be a willful handicap, and one this team cannot afford for very long. A lot about the conduct of this team over the course of this season has be curious, and as fans we are left with no answers.

[david aka the TYZ]

I assume that's directed towards me. Mick's gameplan is to hold opponents to under 60 because he knows we don't have the offense to outscore opponents in a high scoring game. Did you really want to get into a shooting match with Marquette? And by the same logic of keeping Gates in because he had 14 points, what's the logic in keeping Stephenson in? What did he have 2 points? I'll agree for this team to be successful we need Gates in the game, but we need him to be playing up to his ability, not going through the motions. Gates needs to get better. Maybe pine time is the way to get through to him that he has to play hard. Bottom line is this team hasn't won all year against similar competition as yesterday with Gates and Stephenson in there, so maybe try something different. I'll say it again, other than the Notre Dame game where Yancey worked his butt off against Harangody, what difference has he made in terms of wins or losses? You'd have to stretch even farther to give me the difference Stephenson has made.

[Who Dey Time]

I can understand some frustrations with the team and how that reflects on the coach, but I think it's ridiculous to look at everything the team does and point it right back to Cronin. He doesn't deserve COY awards, but if you can't at least admit that this team is VERY close to being where we all want it to be, then you're blind or fooling yourself for the sake of your argument. Players make plays. At the end of the game, Hayward hit a huge three to tie the game and put it into overtime with a hand in his face. DV had a similar situation at the end of OT, but was wide open, and bricked his. I don't think Mick's coaching had anything to do with either of those. There are so many plays that determine a game, and to pick and choose only those that you can later pin blame back on MC is intellectually dishonest to the point of being anti-intellectual.

Very well said.

My only coaching gripe from yesterday is that Gates should have been in the final play of regulation if only to present another option.

Then again, if free throws are made it is all a mute point and the anti-Mick crowd would not be near as boisterous they have been the past 24 hours.

[westhillscat]

If per Cronin, Gates was not playing due to being a defensive liability, he should have at least played the last few seconds of regulation when UC had the ball for the last offensive possession

[ucmba2002]

If you dont think yesterday's game was Cronin's fault then you have blinders on. how can you be serious that the final lineup we had in the game had no impact on the outcome? how can cronin not call a timeout with 15-20 seconds to go while cash dribbles the ball and we throw up a fade away three?

If gates is not in shape to play the last 7 mins of a ball game after 26 games, then I have to question our conditioning program.

Regardless, not calling a timeout and setting up a play for yancy in the final 20 secs of the game falls squarely on cronin.

[ucmba2002]

Very well said.

My only coaching gripe from yesterday is that Gates should have been in the final play of regulation if only to present another option.

Then again, if free throws are made it is all a mute point and the anti-Mick crowd would not be near as boisterous they have been the past 24 hours.

get off your anti-mick soap box....just because people want see this team win doesn't make them anti-mick.

i have nothing against mick, it is the results he produces and excuses that he makes that i am against.

if he can turn this program around and make the tourney i would be fine with keeping him

[CincyBeerCo]

From Mike DeCoursy's Twitter:

"Cincinnatians obsessing over Yancey Gates' absence at end of Marquette game are missing the point. There's a price to pay to become winners."

[RobPoppeil]

The first two classes he signed out of desperation. We don't need to go over this everytime do we? This team is really poor at shooting free throws when most of them were decent in high school. I would have to look it up but now that I think of it were any of these guys good free throw shooters in high school besides from Cash (80% i believe). Not to mention our senior leader bricked his gimme free throws, thats what lost this game. If we shoot 75% from the line we win easily!

That's great. He signed players out of desperation. Does that mean they can't shoot free throws? Also Dixon and Thomas missed 5 free throws and were not part of those classes so find another excuse. It should be easy Mick has a long list of them.

[jkwuc89]

I am closing this thread because there is another which discusses Coach Cronin's answer to a direct question about Gates' benching.