2010 Recruiting getting harder

[shaunsimpson]

2 of the top 3 or 4 players in Ohio have already commited and it is not to UC. A lot can happen between now and then, but I am hoping to get some local talent (Ohio talent that is) at UC.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

2 of the top 3 or 4 players in Ohio have already commited and it is not to UC. A lot can happen between now and then, but I am hoping to get some local talent (Ohio talent that is) at UC.

Mick has always recruited nationally. I think he'll do fine with that approach.

[cincycpaw]

Mick has always recruited nationally. I think he'll do fine with that approach.


True. But getting players from your area and state sets your school as THE school to attend for future kids. National recruiting is a must, but so is getting some local guys.

[tophat]

True. But getting players from your area and state sets your school as THE school to attend for future kids. National recruiting is a must, but so is getting some local guys.

You're right about that. The only place you have a natural built in advantage is your own area, and you need to be strong in your area, just as we're at a disadvantage when we recruit in the south, etc, and will be successful in those places a low percentage of the time.

I don't like the idea of players already commiting elsewhere for 2010, at a time when we're still down. I'm still focused on 08.

[Irishbearcat]

I think a good showing this year will help. Last year was awful, and I'm sure that's in the minds of some people locally and around the US.
Winning cures all.

[waterhead]

2 of the top 3 or 4 players in Ohio have already commited and it is not to UC. A lot can happen between now and then, but I am hoping to get some local talent (Ohio talent that is) at UC.

I'm not sure if that sucks or not. We only have one to give in 2010 right? Maybe Mick is only focused on a few and those weren't the ones.

[jeffto]

I don't think recruiting locally has ever been a priority at UC. I think Mick will recruit the best players he can. If they're in the vicinity so much the better.

[jkwuc89]

I deleted four potentially inflammatory posts whose content we prefer not to see on this forum.

[nolte50uc]

Basketball is a little different than football when it comes to pulling local talent. There are typically only eight players per team that get considerable playing time in a college basketball game. IMHO recuiting should focus on the top talent and not put an emphasis on if they're from Ohio or not. We can save the local 'talent' for walk-ons.

[nolte50uc]

Another point just came to mind on this topic. Ohio isn't exactly a hotbed for b-ball talent. I know there are plenty of exceptions, but Ohio b-ball talent isn't as big as football. You also have to consider our type of system and how well local boys will fit in. Could you actually see Justin Doellman or Josh Duncan or Johnny Wolfe actually getting any playing time for UC? They do well for X, but they play a dfferent type of ball than UC traditionally does.

[jbod403]

Yancy Gates appears to be a pretty good local pickup for next year.

[shaunsimpson]

Ohio isn't exactly a hotbed for b-ball talent.

I wouldn't say that. In 2007 and 2008 there were just as many basketball top 100 in ohio as football if not more (2007). The following are Scout top 100.

2006:
13 - Dequan Cook (OSU)
31 - David Lighty (OSU)
34 - Raymar Morgan (MSU)
90 - Adrion Graves (Xavier)

2007
1 - OJ Mayo (could be argued he is WVU player)
7 - Bill Walker (KState)
14 - Kosta Koufos (OSU)
49 - Chris Wright (Dayton)
60 - Jason Henry (Cincinnati)
65 - John Diebler (OSU)
68 - Alex Tyrus (Florida)
93 - Dallas Lauderdal (OSU)

2008
6 - BJ Mullens (OSU)
9 - Delvon Roe (MSU)
12 - William Buford (OSU)
45 - Kenny Frease (Xavier)
69 - Yancy Gates (Cincinnati)

[nolte50uc]

There's no question there's talent here - I said there are plenty of exceptions. (Also recall the Enquirer's greatest 100 b-ball players.) The main point I was trying to make is that if there is talent in Texas and New York that suit your program better than Ohio kids, why put an emphasis on it? I know the fans (myself included) always like to see the local boys play here, but winning will fill more seats in the arena than a team of Ohio kids.

[shaunsimpson]

I would think it is easier to get kids from Ohio to stay in Ohio than kids in Texas to move to Ohio and play basketball in an area with 0 degree winters. It is easier to keep relationships with local coaches than coaches in Texas, Florida, etc.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I would think it is easier to get kids from Ohio to stay in Ohio than kids in Texas to move to Ohio and play basketball in an area with 0 degree winters. It is easier to keep relationships with local coaches than coaches in Texas, Florida, etc.

That was true in the 1950's but not since. Most Bearcat stars (Ron Bonham, George Wilson, Ricky Roberson, Jim Ard, Lloyd Batts, Pat Cummings, Steve Collier, etc) were not from Ohio.

The late Derrek Dickey stayed home but many did not.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I wouldn't say that. In 2007 and 2008 there were just as many basketball top 100 in ohio as football if not more (2007). The following are Scout top 100.

2006:
13 - Dequan Cook (OSU)
31 - David Lighty (OSU)
34 - Raymar Morgan (MSU)
90 - Adrion Graves (Xavier)

2007
1 - OJ Mayo (could be argued he is WVU player)
7 - Bill Walker (KState)
14 - Kosta Koufos (OSU)
49 - Chris Wright (Dayton)
60 - Jason Henry (Cincinnati)
65 - John Diebler (OSU)
68 - Alex Tyrus (Florida)
93 - Dallas Lauderdal (OSU)

2008
6 - BJ Mullens (OSU)
9 - Delvon Roe (MSU)
12 - William Buford (OSU)
45 - Kenny Frease (Xavier)
69 - Yancy Gates (Cincinnati)

Both OJ Mayo AND Bill Walker grew up in Huntington WV - not Ohio.

[cincycpaw]

Both OJ Mayo AND Bill Walker grew up in Huntington WV - not Ohio.

I think playing high school ball right in Cincinnati is a little more important than where they were born.

They were UC's to lose...and we did.

[nolte50uc]

I think playing high school ball right in Cincinnati is a little more important than where they were born.

They were UC's to lose...and we did.


At least in the case of Walker, he was Hugg's to lose.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I think playing high school ball right in Cincinnati is a little more important than where they were born.

They were UC's to lose...and we did.

They were "moved" to Cincy. They played in KY also.

They are WV natives.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

At least in the case of Walker, he was Hugg's to lose.

And he did - by leaving him for home.

[cincycpaw]

They were "moved" to Cincy. They played in KY also.

They are WV natives.


I am well aware of that fact.

It is obvious that national recruiting is a must if you want to compete at the highest level. It should also be obvious that local recruiting of the top players and creating the sense for local kids that YOUR program is THE one to try and be a prt of goes a long way in sustaining a a program at the highest level.

Like someone else said, it's the only built in advantage you ever get. If a kid grows up wanting to be a Bearcat, sure makes it easier (not 100% though) to make it happen if you want it to happen.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I am well aware of that fact.

It is obvious that national recruiting is a must if you want to compete at the highest level. It should also be obvious that local recruiting of the top players and creating the sense for local kids that YOUR program is THE one to try and be a prt of goes a long way in sustaining a a program at the highest level.

Like someone else said, it's the only built in advantage you ever get. If a kid grows up wanting to be a Bearcat, sure makes it easier (not 100% though) to make it happen if you want it to happen.

Yancy Gates is a great one to land.

In my 50 years of following UC basketball, the Bearcats rarely dominated local or even Ohio recruiting.

[SLMadiCat]

I am well aware of that fact.

It is obvious that national recruiting is a must if you want to compete at the highest level. It should also be obvious that local recruiting of the top players and creating the sense for local kids that YOUR program is THE one to try and be a prt of goes a long way in sustaining a a program at the highest level.

Like someone else said, it's the only built in advantage you ever get. If a kid grows up wanting to be a Bearcat, sure makes it easier (not 100% though) to make it happen if you want it to happen.

Where they are from makes no difference. Sure, if they are from Cincinnati and they are a stud, then it would be disappointing to miss on them. There are plenty of local kids that UC passed on that were not that great of a talent to begin with. I still remember people complaining that they missed on these local kids, when in fact, better national kids were signed. Happens everywhere.

OJ was not from Cincy, either was Walker.
Gates is from Cincy and UC got him. In fact, he is the best player in his class from Cincy.
McElroy is from Cincy.
Point is...take the best players out there, regardless of where they are from.

[cincycpaw]

Where they are from makes no difference. Sure, if they are from Cincinnati and they are a stud, then it would be disappointing to miss on them. There are plenty of local kids that UC passed on that were not that great of a talent to begin with. I still remember people complaining that they missed on these local kids, when in fact, better national kids were signed. Happens everywhere.

OJ was not from Cincy, either was Walker.
Gates is from Cincy and UC got him. In fact, he is the best player in his class from Cincy.
McElroy is from Cincy.
Point is...take the best players out there, regardless of where they are from.

No kidding you take the best players you can get. I find it unbelievable that people can't see the value in dominating the local scene.

Just look at O$U...in football and basketball. They get the local kids with such ease that they can then spend their time getting the national pieces they need to reach the final four.

It makes life easier, that's all I'm saying.

[cincycpaw]

Let me add that Mick did a great job in landing Gates and I hope it is the beginning of a trend.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

No kidding you take the best players you can get. I find it unbelievable that people can't see the value in dominating the local scene.

Just look at O$U...in football and basketball. They get the local kids with such ease that they can then spend their time getting the national pieces they need to reach the final four.

It makes life easier, that's all I'm saying.

Ohio State has dominated the state of Ohio in recruiting for as long as I can remember. Even during the 1960's Glory Days for UC.

[NorrisHopper30]

Anyone know how far Mick is recruiting ahead? I know there is a LARGE amount of talent at the freshman (2011) level in Cincinnati. 5-6 players ranked in the top 10 in state of the freshman class are in Cincinnati. I'm not sure how they'll develop but it'd be nice to hear if Mick is talking to a few of them.

[MikeInClifton]

Anyone know how far Mick is recruiting ahead? I know there is a LARGE amount of talent at the freshman (2011) level in Cincinnati. 5-6 players ranked in the top 10 in state of the freshman class are in Cincinnati. I'm not sure how they'll develop but it'd be nice to hear if Mick is talking to a few of them.

Its normal for major college programs to 'track' the good freshman and even standout 8th graders.

Talking to freshman is very limited, per NCAA guidelines. But if a player takes an unofficial visit to the campus, they can interact of course. But even mail is limited and calls to the player are not allowed.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Its normal for major college programs to 'track' the good freshman and even standout 8th graders.

Talking to freshman is very limited, per NCAA guidelines. But if a player takes an unofficial visit to the campus, they can interact of course. But even mail is limited and calls to the player are not allowed.


Somebody tell Thad Matta, please.

[shaunsimpson]

Yup....just looked at it and Matta has 3 of the top 10 kids in the country for 2010 already and another from Ohio who is a top 100 player and top 5 in the state. Obviously things will change in the next 3 years, but recruiting is changing.

[jkwuc89]

Remember too that verbal commitments are non-binding. Until a signed LOI arrives from a recruit, that recruit is technically still available.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Remember too that verbal commitments are non-binding. Until a signed LOI arrives from a recruit, that recruit is technically still available.

Billy Tubbs of Oklahoma used to say (something like) a verbal commitment just identifies The School To Beat for the recruit.

Higher % of de-commits are seen every year.

[Oldtimer_UC_fan]

Billy Tubbs of Oklahoma used to say (something like) a verbal commitment just identifies The School To Beat for the recruit.

Higher % of de-commits are seen every year.

You must be old like me. I remember him saying that, too.

[IKnowMoreThanYou]

Somebody tell Thad Matta, please.

Now that was funny but not as funny when you look at the players he's already gotten verbals from for 2010. On the plus side it appears Mick and Co. are doing a good job of re-establishing themselves among the top players in the state and while you certainly lose more than you win in recruiting you still have to be in it to get the signature.

[jeffto]

Note that Prep Nation has one Ohio team in it's pre-season top 25. And that team (St. E) is the only Ohio team on the Midwest list.

Ohio is just not important for recruiting.

http://prepnation.com/poll/poll.cfm?poll=2&year=2007&week=1

[Bp4thebest]

doesnt matter where the player is from.. its not like football where its vital to try and keep home talent.. basketball is not as great as it is in football and baseball.. ohio has good football and baseball prep players but it doesnt matter from basketball.. if they r good get them doesnt really matter... matta can recruit a guy from ohio who is a good recruit and he may get him b/c he is from ohio.. but doesnt matter... if uc signs the next k mart out of texas then fine.. sometimes trying real hard to get someone from ohio b/c thats home may result in getting a player who is overatted... uc got one real good recruit from ohio in the mid 90's i cant think of the name i think he played with blaut.. he was from ohio.. since then uc has been good and has not gotten a ohio recruit since gates... there has been ppl out there thats better and as someone mentioned.. fits the system better! who gave anyone the idea that we need to keep talent here! if they r fine get them.. gates is a good guy to keep here but if he was from anywhere else so what! staying home is also not a huge deal for as many bb players as it is fb.. some but not alot!

[Bp4thebest]

man i talk way too much lol.. could of made that thread alot shorter sorry

[MikeInClifton]

doesnt matter where the player is from.. its not like football where its vital to try and keep home talent.. basketball is not as great as it is in football and baseball..

But the reason it is 'not as great' (if I follow what you mean by that) is because of simple math.

A basketball squad is smaller than a baseball (25?) or football squad (85?). A good coach always wants to be in the front of a line for a good local talent, regardless of the sport. But in basketball, Cronin only has 13 schollies to give, so they have to be the absolute best local players that would be viewed as talented by many coaches national experts.

If I get the best local linebacker, I have 5-6 other linebackers on the team that, if the local kid doesnt perform well, can take his spot. That number cant be said in basketball.

The best players in the Cincinnati/Middletown/No. KY area last season were Chris Wright (Trotwood Madison HS/Dayton), Dantae Jackson (Greenfield McClain HS/Xavier),Troy Tabler (Moeller HS/Wright State), Bobby Austin (LaSalle HS/Furman) and Billy Allen (Hamilton HS/Albany). Only Wright would have been good enough to play in the Big East.

I don't include the three Harmony studs since they only spent one year in Cin. (All three were ranked higher than Anthony McClain on some lists) But I certainly could include them since the coaches were at Harmony alot for Jason Henry.

The year before that was Chris Knight (Withrow HS/ grade trouble) and Johnny Wolf (St Xavier HS/UNC-Wilmington)

Coaches DO want to get the best local talent to come to their school, but they have to be viewed as top national recruits, not just the best player in Cincinnati.

So I dont stress local basketball talent, unless they are good enough to play in the Big East.

[NorrisHopper30]

Note that Prep Nation has one Ohio team in it's pre-season top 25. And that team (St. E) is the only Ohio team on the Midwest list.

Ohio is just not important for recruiting.

http://prepnation.com/poll/poll.cfm?poll=2&year=2007&week=1

Rivals or some other site has Eds at #9 in the nation and St X (cincy) at #48 in the nation. In their regional polls Withrow is in it, i'm not sure how Moeller missed the cut after they beat Eds, Withrow and X last year (3 times for X).

There is a lot of talent in Ohio. OSU has been getting the big names, hopefully in a year or 2 we can start getting the Koufos', Roe's, Buford's, etc.