No love for the Bearcats from Jason King (Yahoo/Rivals)

[juckerrules]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=Aoq_kc58tIzuxGUp_EYjz6XevbYF?slug=jn-hooppower092110

Not even a mention as a possibility to make the tourney from the BE...scroll down past the Big 10 worship article to find BE

I meant to spell it Jason...or maybe doofus

[Mr. Bearcat]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=Aoq_kc58tIzuxGUp_EYjz6XevbYF?slug=jn-hooppower092110

Not even a mention as a possibility to make the tourney from the BE...scroll down past the Big 10 worship article to find BE

I meant to spell it Jason...or maybe doofus

Does no mention of us really surprise you? Honestly? What on Earth would lead anybody on the planet to consider us a threat this year? We've lost the only two players that anybody would even recognize as being a basketball player the last half decade in Lance and Deonta. Our coach has not made any kind of a name for himself. We've been out of the NCAA for 5 years. We are flying as low under the radar as we can possibly fly.

If we are really banking on Kilpatrick being the difference maker, then we would really have to question Mick's coaching even more for redshirting him last year. If he is that good, then he may have gotten us over the top last year and it was a stupid decision to redshirt him.

We have been reduced to hoping that unidentified great leaders emerge, that redshirt players instantly become the best player on the team, that we somehow play way better because our best players are no longer on the team, and that our coach suddenly transforms into Coach K and molds a group of untalented players (who have a track record) into a champion, or at least a contender. That is a whole lot of wishing. If it happens, a whole lot of people in here will look very smart.

[London 'Cat]

Does no mention of us really surprise you? Honestly? What on Earth would lead anybody on the planet to consider us a threat this year? We've lost the only two players that anybody would even recognize as being a basketball player the last half decade in Lance and Deonta. Our coach has not made any kind of a name for himself. We've been out of the NCAA for 5 years. We are flying as low under the radar as we can possibly fly.

If we are really banking on Kilpatrick being the difference maker, then we would really have to question Mick's coaching even more for redshirting him last year. If he is that good, then he may have gotten us over the top last year and it was a stupid decision to redshirt him.

We have been reduced to hoping that unidentified great leaders emerge, that redshirt players instantly become the best player on the team, that we somehow play way better because our best players are no longer on the team, and that our coach suddenly transforms into Coach K and molds a group of untalented players (who have a track record) into a champion, or at least a contender. That is a whole lot of wishing. If it happens, a whole lot of people in here will look very smart.

Great post. This team is not going anywhere, and I challenge anyone who believes otherwise to point to any evidence that could lead to a contrary conclusion.

[weez1414]

Not to mention we just lost out on like 3 recruits I think we needed. Aaron Thomas, Jerome Seagears, Jakkar Samson,. **** I think I'm forgetting someone also. He needs to lock up the loacal talent ecspecially in Thomas and get some shooters. Noone on this team is really a scorer.

[Best Body]

Does no mention of us really surprise you? Honestly? What on Earth would lead anybody on the planet to consider us a threat this year? We've lost the only two players that anybody would even recognize as being a basketball player the last half decade in Lance and Deonta. Our coach has not made any kind of a name for himself. We've been out of the NCAA for 5 years. We are flying as low under the radar as we can possibly fly.

If we are really banking on Kilpatrick being the difference maker, then we would really have to question Mick's coaching even more for redshirting him last year. If he is that good, then he may have gotten us over the top last year and it was a stupid decision to redshirt him.

We have been reduced to hoping that unidentified great leaders emerge, that redshirt players instantly become the best player on the team, that we somehow play way better because our best players are no longer on the team, and that our coach suddenly transforms into Coach K and molds a group of untalented players (who have a track record) into a champion, or at least a contender. That is a whole lot of wishing. If it happens, a whole lot of people in here will look very smart.

Don't be using logic to try to pull heads out of the sand. You are discounting that Mick is a "Great Recruiter" who just brought in those vastly underrated 3 star prospects. And also you are forgetting the likely improvement because of the Addition by Subtraction thing - that is going to be really helpful. Finally, this is finally the year that Gates will get it.

[juckerrules]

I firmly believe that team games are won by teams, not a collection of individuals who happen to be wearing the same uniform.
The chemistry will be better-the teamwork will be better-the TEAM will be better

[cmm27]

The team may well be better, but is it going to be good enough? That is where I have my reservations.

[Mr. Bearcat]

I firmly believe that team games are won by teams, not a collection of individuals who happen to be wearing the same uniform.
The chemistry will be better-the teamwork will be better-the TEAM will be better

And fortunately, we may have the single greatest example of all-time that your statement is true....our two-time National Championship teams.....the All-American team defeating the team of All-Americans! Villinova, North Carolina State, etc. are other examples. It's great theory, but I would still rather have great players and take my chances.

['nati streets]

Not to mention we just lost out on like 3 recruits I think we needed. Aaron Thomas, Jerome Seagears, Jakkar Samson,. **** I think I'm forgetting someone also. He needs to lock up the local talent especially in Thomas and get some shooters. No one on this team is really a scorer.

Who do you scout for?
Yeah sarcasm.
You guys need to calm down, seriously. Mick has improved his win total each of the last two years.
That in spite of Deonta providing less than expected last year, and BR being a distributing and scoring disappointment.

If you don't think we have scorers this year... I say wait until you see them play... then tell me what you think of Killa and Cash, with late game shots entrusted to Davis, and Gates at the post. To me it does not sound bad.

[Mr. Bearcat]

Who do you scout for?
Yeah sarcasm.
You guys need to calm down, seriously. Mick has improved his win total each of the last two years.
That in spite of Deonta providing less than expected last year, and BR being a distributing and scoring disappointment.

If you don't think we have scorers this year... I say wait until you see them play... then tell me what you think of Killa and Cash, with late game shots entrusted to Davis, and Gates at the post. To me it does not sound bad.

He improved his win total by scheduling weaker and weaker out of conference. His conference win total has gotten worse. Killa (not good enough to make last year's bad team), Cash (big disappointment on last year's bad team), Davis (nothing more needs to be said about this player), and Gates (most overrated player in a long time to attend UC, plus a non-hustler) are all gonna lead us to the promised land? Wow, I'm almost excited about that opportunity to knock off Syracuse in the final seconds and Mick draws up the play to feed Davis and he let's fly........ I'm getting chills just thinking about it!

[MDW79]

Does no mention of us really surprise you? Honestly? What on Earth would lead anybody on the planet to consider us a threat this year? We've lost the only two players that anybody would even recognize as being a basketball player the last half decade in Lance and Deonta. Our coach has not made any kind of a name for himself. We've been out of the NCAA for 5 years. We are flying as low under the radar as we can possibly fly.

If we are really banking on Kilpatrick being the difference maker, then we would really have to question Mick's coaching even more for redshirting him last year. If he is that good, then he may have gotten us over the top last year and it was a stupid decision to redshirt him.

We have been reduced to hoping that unidentified great leaders emerge, that redshirt players instantly become the best player on the team, that we somehow play way better because our best players are no longer on the team, and that our coach suddenly transforms into Coach K and molds a group of untalented players (who have a track record) into a champion, or at least a contender. That is a whole lot of wishing. If it happens, a whole lot of people in here will look very smart.

Very well said.

I hope we can prove some people wrong and, of course, I hope some players can elevate their games, but I do think that the potential of some, to help a great deal immediately, is overstated among fans. Namely, like you mentioned, Kilpatrick.

Look, I'm not saying the kid has no potential, nor am I saying that there is no way he can't/won't contribute this season. But Mr Bearcat hit the nail on the head. If the kid was that good (good enough as a RS Frosh to replace the scoring of LS/DV) then he should have never been redshirted to begin with. If so, then we really need question our coach.

The fact is, he was a 3 star recruit. The recruiting rankings are certainly not the end all be all, but does speak to his potential. 5 start recruits struggle to contribute right way, and only a handful of them actually can come out and lead a team.

Look at someone like Scotty Hopson. He was what, the 7th, 8th... best player in the entire country. It goes to Tenn and starts right away. I think he averaged 9 points or so and over 25 minutes a game. I think his 2nd year he averaged 12 or so. There's tons of examples.

So this idea, that team can replace the scoring lost so easily is still a rather large question, no? A question for a team that already to struggled to score last year, with a NBA McDAA and the 3rd leading scorer in school history.

So I'm with you, how is that so many have taken the production a 3 star RS frosh for granted, who wasn't good enough to take minutes enough from Larry Davis, Parker, Bishop, Wilks, etc. to warrant a active roster spot? Because Mick said they were saving him? Please. Yeah, they were saving, but it better have been b/c HE WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY A GREAT DEAL YET rather than that he was so good, but was stuck behind two people that we had to save him a year.

We need a lot of people to step up this year. And I do think anyone who ranks us outside of the top 10, 12 is right. On paper, this team looks like it will struggle mightily. I think we'll need 4 guys right around 10 pts, I think we'll need to press and/or trap, I think we'll need to push the pace a little more, and lastly I think MICK WILL NEED TO SETTLE ON SOME SORT OF ROTATION. If we do these things, maybe we can sneak in. Maybe. If we run that half court crap offense, that consists of passing the ball around the key, until the shot clock hits 10, and then just force one, we'll be eff'd before the season even starts.

No reason to be surprised, or to take offense at us not even being mentioned. If anything, I like it. B/c it just something that might motivate the players that much more. (Here's to you Gates) We need all the help we can get, so I'll take "slap in the face" preseason writeups and leave them to hang up on the bulletin board.

[Mr. Bearcat]

Very well said.

I hope we can prove some people wrong and, of course, I hope some players can elevate their games, but I do think that the potential of some, to help a great deal immediately, is overstated among fans. Namely, like you mentioned, Kilpatrick.

Look, I'm not saying the kid has no potential, nor am I saying that there is no way he can't/won't contribute this season. But Mr Bearcat hit the nail on the head. If the kid was that good (good enough as a RS Frosh to replace the scoring of LS/DV) then he should have never been redshirted to begin with. If so, then we really need question our coach.

The fact is, he was a 3 star recruit. The recruiting rankings are certainly not the end all be all, but does speak to his potential. 5 start recruits struggle to contribute right way, and only a handful of them actually can come out and lead a team.

Look at someone like Scotty Hopson. He was what, the 7th, 8th... best player in the entire country. It goes to Tenn and starts right away. I think he averaged 9 points or so and over 25 minutes a game. I think his 2nd year he averaged 12 or so. There's tons of examples.

So this idea, that team can replace the scoring lost so easily is still a rather large question, no? A question for a team that already to struggled to score last year, with a NBA McDAA and the 3rd leading scorer in school history.

So I'm with you, how is that so many have taken the production a 3 star RS frosh for granted, who wasn't good enough to take minutes enough from Larry Davis, Parker, Bishop, Wilks, etc. to warrant a active roster spot? Because Mick said they were saving him? Please. Yeah, they were saving, but it better have been b/c HE WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY A GREAT DEAL YET rather than that he was so good, but was stuck behind two people that we had to save him a year.

We need a lot of people to step up this year. And I do think anyone who ranks us outside of the top 10, 12 is right. On paper, this team looks like it will struggle mightily. I think we'll need 4 guys right around 10 pts, I think we'll need to press and/or trap, I think we'll need to push the pace a little more, and lastly I think MICK WILL NEED TO SETTLE ON SOME SORT OF ROTATION. If we do these things, maybe we can sneak in. Maybe. If we run that half court crap offense, that consists of passing the ball around the key, until the shot clock hits 10, and then just force one, we'll be eff'd before the season even starts.

No reason to be surprised, or to take offense at us not even being mentioned. If anything, I like it. B/c it just something that might motivate the players that much more. (Here's to you Gates) We need all the help we can get, so I'll take "slap in the face" preseason writeups and leave them to hang up on the bulletin board.

Each year when I write that UCATS check and then the ticket order check, as we approach a new season, time has usually softened my disappointment from the previous season, the stars have realigned, and all is good in Bearcatland. Another basketball season is upon us. What could be greater? In year 5 of Mick, my hopes and wishes are that the slate gets wiped clean and suddenly we are winning games again and cracking the Top-25.

This year, we have to draw from little snippets of hope to believe that we can turn what appears to be not much talent...on the surface....into a great season. No matter how we spin it though, deep down, we all know it is a huge longshot that we will make much out of this season. You just cannot realistically expect this season to be anything more than disappointing once again. But then, I come on here and read all this optimism and I'm starting to see the light...and believe! We're already 3-0 and ranked #1 in Canada. I sure hope the optimists are right, because I'm dying to get that old Bearcat mojo back in basketball, and I'm sure everyone else wants that too!

[bearcatbret]

I typically do not reply to negativity. However, I will make an exception now. I have not gone out on a limb and supported Mick but have said that Gates senior year will be his first real recruiting class and that is how he should be judged. The classes prior to Gates were desperation recruits. Also, since none of you are in the locker room, you do not know why Sean was red shirted. Maybe Mick saw that this year he was losing so many players and he wanted to push Kilpatrick back a year believing that he would help the program more that way. I have also stated that I have letters from three different sports at UC so I understand a little bit of what goes on behind the scenes. Please refrain from the negativity before the season even starts. The team had a great trip to Canada yet the board was so empty. Not much chatter about how great the team gelled or played or spread the ball around, etc. Why is that? My belief is that there are too many people here that can not say anything good about UC bball and so if they accomplish anything they will remain silent or still find something negative to discuss. As for no pre-conference competition last year, lets point out Mauii where we beat Vandi, Maryland, and should have beat Zaga. This team has the talent it is only about playing with pashion, determination, and as a TEAM.

[juckerrules]

And fortunately, we may have the single greatest example of all-time that your statement is true....our two-time National Championship teams.....the All-American team defeating the team of All-Americans! Villinova, North Carolina State, etc. are other examples. It's great theory, but I would still rather have great players and take my chances.

Great examples - they couldn't win it all with Oscar....but won it with lesser players...against big-time NBA'ers like Lucas and Havlicek - they were a team! ('course they also had UC's greatest coach ever) ;)

[Mr. Bearcat]

I typically do not reply to negativity. However, I will make an exception now. I have not gone out on a limb and supported Mick but have said that Gates senior year will be his first real recruiting class and that is how he should be judged. The classes prior to Gates were desperation recruits. Also, since none of you are in the locker room, you do not know why Sean was red shirted. Maybe Mick saw that this year he was losing so many players and he wanted to push Kilpatrick back a year believing that he would help the program more that way. I have also stated that I have letters from three different sports at UC so I understand a little bit of what goes on behind the scenes. Please refrain from the negativity before the season even starts. The team had a great trip to Canada yet the board was so empty. Not much chatter about how great the team gelled or played or spread the ball around, etc. Why is that? My belief is that there are too many people here that can not say anything good about UC bball and so if they accomplish anything they will remain silent or still find something negative to discuss. As for no pre-conference competition last year, lets point out Mauii where we beat Vandi, Maryland, and should have beat Zaga. This team has the talent it is only about playing with pashion, determination, and as a TEAM.

Nor do you know why Sean was redshirted. There's a difference between negativity and realism. I would bet that I have been around this program far longer than you have. I have enthusiastically supported it financially, through my attendance, through employment, through sending all my kids there, through following the team on the road, in every way you can support it. I am an alumni myself. I am a long time UCATS member and a long time Charles McMicken Society member. I bleed red and black. It takes a lot for me to say one negative word about UC basketball. This last 5 years has been a lot! So, the pessimist in me has come out. Suffice it to say, I'm not a bandwagon jumper. I am with the team and the coach win or lose, but I will voice my opinion. I'm not giving up before the season starts, but I am not optimistic either.

A coach has an awful lot to do with players playing with passion, determination and as a team. The fact that you say they have talent, but need to start playing with those three qualities is an indictment on the coach. Nobody accused our players, pre-Mick, of playing without passion, determination, or as a team. That's because the previous coach willed us to play that way. That was our brand, our reputation year in and year out. If he has the talent, then it's his job to also bring the other winning qualities out of his players. That's what he is getting paid a million dollars to do.

[MDW79]

I typically do not reply to negativity. However, I will make an exception now. I have not gone out on a limb and supported Mick but have said that Gates senior year will be his first real recruiting class and that is how he should be judged. The classes prior to Gates were desperation recruits. Also, since none of you are in the locker room, you do not know why Sean was red shirted. Maybe Mick saw that this year he was losing so many players and he wanted to push Kilpatrick back a year believing that he would help the program more that way. I have also stated that I have letters from three different sports at UC so I understand a little bit of what goes on behind the scenes. Please refrain from the negativity before the season even starts. The team had a great trip to Canada yet the board was so empty. Not much chatter about how great the team gelled or played or spread the ball around, etc. Why is that? My belief is that there are too many people here that can not say anything good about UC bball and so if they accomplish anything they will remain silent or still find something negative to discuss. As for no pre-conference competition last year, lets point out Mauii where we beat Vandi, Maryland, and should have beat Zaga. This team has the talent it is only about playing with pashion, determination, and as a TEAM.


Did you really expect the board to be hopping b/c of the trip to Canada? I didn't even bother looking at the box scores. No offense, but I put about as much stock in those results as I do the Deveroe's games. It doesn't mean the games are meaningless, I'm sure they help the team and give some indication of their play, but c'mon now. Who really cares? Their Canadian teams, we're supposed to beat them. And, YES, I know about Kansas and Syracuse playing up there, it's still not much to hang your hat on.

I'm sorry, but your saying "I've always said Gates' Sr. year will be his first recruiting class and that's how he should be judged" shows extreme bias. So, am I getting, in your mind, Mick had/has 6 years regardless of play all along? (ie We could be 8-22 this year but you've already awarded Mick the 6th) But can we judge that class after year 6, being his first "real class" and it's only THEIR first year? Or do they need more? 2 years in (7 years total) 3 years (8 years total). If that's his first REAL class, we certainly would have to let that class develop, right. So in essence, when it's all said and done, you've awarded the man a minimum of 7, 8 9 years the moment he arrived, regardless of the outcomes in years 1-6????

What were the last 5 classes? Fake classes? I know the first year was more than rushed, so I'll give that one. I know the 2nd year, was quick so I'll even give that one. But what about the last 3 years? Why aren't those "real" classes? Just because of the size of the class? I'm not following. Years 2, 3, 4 were actually pretty decent classes. I know I'd take year 3 (Gates and Satt) over year 5 (Jackson and Gaines) I'd take year 4 over year 5 as well (Parker, Killa, Lance) Year 2 was a decent class. In all honesty, it may be end up being better than the one he FINALLY gets to put together now. I'm not sure why these classes don't count? Again, maybe years 1 and 2, but 3, 4, 5... No.

Also, his second year, in which was indeed under the gun to fill quickly, he actually had a better class than what it appears to be shaping up now? The following years, I would say the same. I consider these legitimate recruits, and I say that to his credit. If this is first "real" class, then why do the previous classes appear as good, if not better.

If Mick doesn't get us to the tourney, he should get the axe. Period. Basketball is big money, and 5 years is more than enough time to judge a coach. I don't care what the coach inherited. 5 years is 5 years, and this program can't afford to go into another season without a tourney appearance or without a new face to bring some excitement back into the program. It's one or the other.

And for those that what to knock the negativity by some (definitely me at times) some of it is realism. I think we all get that Mick came into a bad spot and understand that it takes time. That said, I'm not sure what that has to do with many of the actual in game coaching we've seen. Whether he's been 4 years or 20 years, sitting your best two players the final 15 minutes (Gates and Stephenson) against ND is BAD coaching. Not putting Yancy in the final offensive play of the same game = BAD coaching. Having 47 different starting lineups, with no injuries causing this = BAD coaching. etc. etc. etc.


The guy makes millions for a reason. YEAR 5. Win this year. Win NOW. No excuses. Get it done. I'm tired of hearing about next year, apparently some have already awarded 2 years beyond that????

[Lobot]

The guy makes millions for a reason. YEAR 5. Win this year. Win NOW. No excuses. Get it done. I'm tired of hearing about next year, apparently some have already awarded 2 years beyond that????

I understand your logic but I'm one of the ones who supports giving him year 6 for the good of the program. Here's why: If we fire him after this year, our 2011 recruiting will bolt and we'll be pretty much back in the same hole Mick started with. We cannot afford that. Year 7's a stretch without an excellent year 5 or 6. IMO, It doesn't matter whether I support Mick or not, Mick will likely be here through year 6 for recruiting reasons and that's "realistic".

[MDW79]

I understand your logic but I'm one of the ones who supports giving him year 6 for the good of the program. Here's why: If we fire him after this year, our 2011 recruiting will bolt and we'll be pretty much back in the same hole Mick started with. We cannot afford that. Year 7's a stretch without an excellent year 5 or 6. IMO, It doesn't matter whether I support Mick or not, Mick will likely be here through year 6 for recruiting reasons and that's "realistic".

And I do agree to an extent, which is why giving THIS year was my biggest concern. Yeah, I think we do have to give him year 6 now, the hand is almost forced regardless of outcome.

The point being made that I was arguing was that you can't judge him until then. I think that's ridiculous to say. And we still need to win now, whether he's kept for recruiting purposes or not. If we fail to make the tourney this year, and keep him on to keep the class intact, then we're in serious trouble. Then we have to have win in year 6 to keep his job, which will be even harder b/c of the youth of the team. Then you have 5 or 6 Freshman that may be looking to transfer.

[Who Dey Time]

And I do agree to an extent, which is why giving THIS year was my biggest concern. Yeah, I think we do have to give him year 6 now, the hand is almost forced regardless of outcome.

The point being made that I was arguing was that you can't judge him until then. I think that's ridiculous to say. And we still need to win now, whether he's kept for recruiting purposes or not. If we fail to make the tourney this year, and keep him on to keep the class intact, then we're in serious trouble. Then we have to have win in year 6 to keep his job, which will be even harder b/c of the youth of the team. Then you have 5 or 6 Freshman that may be looking to transfer.

I'm sorry, and I know I get criticized for being a "Mickster" on this board but anyone who thought that MC wasn't getting at least 6 years from day one isn't really living in reality.

[MDW79]

I'm sorry, and I know I get criticized for being a "Mickster" on this board but anyone who thought that MC wasn't getting at least 6 years from day one isn't really living in reality.

From day one? I never put a timetable on it. I did know it would take quite awhile, considering the empty cupboard per say, combined with being in the Big East. I figured, well, it's gonna be a rough stretch and I'll just ride it out and wait and see WHAT I THINK after awhile. Seems rational, no?

So, I actually saw a lot of promising things early on. I thought their performance(s) in years 2 and 3 was very encouraging, along with the recruiting classes. Year 4? Meh...

I now see a mid pack team that seems to have hit a road bump (being the middle to bottom half of the conference) and is nowhere near making that next step. That what I see. I see a coach, regardless of what he inherited, that is definitely due some criticism, and it warranted at this point. He NEEDS to answer to that and show something, like every major conference coach.

Again, like I said, the hurdles along the recruiting trail and the shaping of the team, are completely different from what I'm seeing in the in game management and coaching. Even on a HORRIBLE team, I would still hope that it's justified for me to evaluate the plays, the players devlopment, the strategy, the gameplan, etc as a fan. Is that not fair? Why do I need to put a time frame on that?

I think that MC did a very good job early on. But in maintaining, and continuing to improve a team, in the BEST conference in the country, I have questions.

I think that is indeed the reality of the situation, that myself, and many other logical fans have. Nevermind the average fans who only support a winner, I think this has become a legitimate argument over the last 2 years.

Whether he gets his 6th year or not, it is one debate that I think is at least worthy of discussion and that the university should closely monitor. Another year of failure (not making the tourney) coupled with the incoming class, could affect this program for another 5 years. It COULD affect the program and university for decades. A "he gets a free pass" this far along....? No thank you.

We need to win PERIOD. And I'm saying that as: A season ticket holder, An alum, A son of two alums, A member of a family that are UCAT members, The guy who has a UC flag outside his house, The guy who has a UC decal on his back car window and always had through 4 or so cars, The "biggest UC fan" of my friends, a simple sports fan ... Win NOW. The " by such and such year..." should be thrown out the window, it shouldn't even be mentioned IMHO.

Simply produce and earn your paycheck, or don't let the door... That time has come. And i think it's fair to EXPECT and DEMAND it. No more free passes. I really think that is fair to ask of your program, and I definitely think it's fair at least be able to raise concerns without being countered with, "Well just wait...He needs till...We don't have... The league is..." Enough with the excuses.

[cmm27]

Pehraps this is just me, but I do not understand anybody that is willing to give the coach a pass for this season, or is willing to put up with excuses for the coach through this season. If this has not been long enough to put his own stamp on the program then it will NEVER be long enough for Cronin to put his stamp on the program.

I also think that some people, in their defense of the coach or what they may see as a slight on the program in some way, confuse comments as attacks on the program itself. Everybody wants UC to succeed. Some are just no longer convinced that Cronin is the coach to achieve that, and we would all gladly eat loads of crow if this year turns out to be the corner turning year. That said, I am skeptical about whatever success this team had in Canada. The extra practice time was useful, but any results are useless in how they relate to "real" college basketball.

I just wish people would acknowledge that people have legitmate concerns with what they see as the basketball program right now. Excuses left aside, the results have not been what anybody wants to see (except maybe an X fan). I do not have quite the legacy as a UC fan as many of you all claim, I was not alive then. But I am a UCAT member and all of that and I used to get taken out of school by my parents to go to conference tournaments and the NCAA tournament games to watch UC. On a side, I am grateful my mother and father though UC basketball was a worthwhile excuse to miss school. But with all that said I am as equally passionate about UC in all sports as anybody else on this board, it is why I am on this board. I want UC to succeed. I also want Cronin to either meet my expectations this season and failing that have his contract terminated.

[Boosilini]

Once again.....We Have doubters and so called realist saying how this season will turn out.just so funny to me why you would even check this site or comment on a 'weak team?' or one that has its goals set for winning the BE or making the tourney??
I believe in MY CATS!and Expect them to win every game they play.no matter whos coaching

Put it like this

Huggs was an enforcer,Mick is a go with the flow....(none of it matters)roy williams,coach k,whoever you could get....none of em wouldve made the tourney in any year with those players Mic has coached UC.lance wasnt a star,maybe if he had two or three more stars on the team with him he'd be a star.

Players are players,If the player's really a star he's really gonna shine and his team's gonna win.no matter who's the coach,conference,doubter,so called realist.....

Oh and I predict the 'Cats will make the NCAA tournament.
________
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[MDW79]

Once again.....We Have doubters and so called realist saying how this season will turn out.just so funny to me why you would even check this site or comment on a 'weak team?' or one that has its goals set for winning the BE or making the tourney??
I believe in MY CATS!and Expect them to win every game they play.no matter whos coaching

Put it like this

Huggs was an enforcer,Mick is a go with the flow....(none of it matters)roy williams,coach k,whoever you could get....none of em wouldve made the tourney in any year with those players Mic has coached UC.lance wasnt a star,maybe if he had two or three more stars on the team with him he'd be a star.

Players are players,If the player's really a star he's really gonna shine and his team's gonna win.no matter who's the coach,conference,doubter,so called realist.....

Oh and I predict the 'Cats will make the NCAA tournament.

Is this a joke?

[Mr. Bearcat]

Once again.....We Have doubters and so called realist saying how this season will turn out.just so funny to me why you would even check this site or comment on a 'weak team?' or one that has its goals set for winning the BE or making the tourney??
I believe in MY CATS!and Expect them to win every game they play.no matter whos coaching

Put it like this

Huggs was an enforcer,Mick is a go with the flow....(none of it matters)roy williams,coach k,whoever you could get....none of em wouldve made the tourney in any year with those players Mic has coached UC.lance wasnt a star,maybe if he had two or three more stars on the team with him he'd be a star.

Players are players,If the player's really a star he's really gonna shine and his team's gonna win.no matter who's the coach,conference,doubter,so called realist.....

Oh and I predict the 'Cats will make the NCAA tournament.

Some of the coaches you mentioned absolutely could have made the tournament with these exact same rosters that Mick had. Maybe not all 4years, but at least a couple times, maybe 3. Had we not had 3 huge collapses at the end of years 2, 3 and 4, we very easily would have made the tourney. The coaches you mentioned wouldn't have collapsed. Mick had it in his grasp all three years and couldn't get it done. Last year, we play amazing in Hawaii, get ranked in the top 20, and come home and lay an egg against Pitt at home, get upset with a pitiful performance at St. Johns, and the season falls apart. He had the horses last year and couldn't seal the deal.

The big issue is his players get worse the longer they play for him. Deonta is a good example. Bishop started every game as a freshman. As a junior, he is an attitude problem and gets kicked off the team. Dixon was solid as a freshman, falls apart as a Soph. Gates was all Big East Freshman, loafs around and sucks as a Soph. Davis seems to be getting better as a Soph....is horrible as a junior. Even Lance comes in and is killing it early on and then just disappears in the 2nd half of the season. What player has really prospered after Mick's guidance? I really can't think of one. Even Biggie showed some promise early on in his Freshman year, and his decline is just incredible. Wilks came in as a 4-star player with loads of talent and athleticism and now he is a senior and has never hit his stride.

You just can't look past the collapses, the lack of improvement in his players, the lack of promoting the program and himself, the lack of postseason play, the so-so recruiting, etc. etc.

Last year it was.....we can't fire him after year four because he has to recruit for the 2011 season when everybody graduates. Now it is...we can't fire him after year 5 because all those recruits he signed will transfer. This forum is absolutely comical. Why don't we give him a lifetime contract and be done with it, because while he has us hanging out with the bottom feeders in the Big East, the program is barely on life support, and firing him at any point while we are on life support, is like pulling the plug...theoretically. The problem is, each year we go without playing in the NCAA is like having cancer. We're dieing a slow death. But, let's keep on dieing. Maybe a miracle will happen.

[Boosilini]

Is this a joke?

not at all sir.Cats will shock the world this year.and traditionally when the football team isnt doing so well the hoop team is usually very very good.
________
Launch box (http://mflbvaporizer.com)

[Boosilini]

Some of the coaches you mentioned absolutely could have made the tournament with these exact same rosters that Mick had. Maybe not all 4years, but at least a couple times, maybe 3. Had we not had 3 huge collapses at the end of years 2, 3 and 4, we very easily would have made the tourney. The coaches you mentioned wouldn't have collapsed. Mick had it in his grasp all three years and couldn't get it done. Last year, we play amazing in Hawaii, get ranked in the top 20, and come home and lay an egg against Pitt at home, get upset with a pitiful performance at St. Johns, and the season falls apart. He had the horses last year and couldn't seal the deal.

The big issue is his players get worse the longer they play for him. Deonta is a good example. Bishop started every game as a freshman. As a junior, he is an attitude problem and gets kicked off the team. Dixon was solid as a freshman, falls apart as a Soph. Gates was all Big East Freshman, loafs around and sucks as a Soph. Davis seems to be getting better as a Soph....is horrible as a junior. Even Lance comes in and is killing it early on and then just disappears in the 2nd half of the season. What player has really prospered after Mick's guidance? I really can't think of one. Even Biggie showed some promise early on in his Freshman year, and his decline is just incredible. Wilks came in as a 4-star player with loads of talent and athleticism and now he is a senior and has never hit his stride.

You just can't look past the collapses, the lack of improvement in his players, the lack of promoting the program and himself, the lack of postseason play, the so-so recruiting, etc. etc.

Last year it was.....we can't fire him after year four because he has to recruit for the 2011 season when everybody graduates. Now it is...we can't fire him after year 5 because all those recruits he signed will transfer. This forum is absolutely comical. Why don't we give him a lifetime contract and be done with it, because while he has us hanging out with the bottom feeders in the Big East, the program is barely on life support, and firing him at any point while we are on life support, is like pulling the plug...theoretically. The problem is, each year we go without playing in the NCAA is like having cancer. We're dieing a slow death. But, let's keep on dieing. Maybe a miracle will happen.

looks like i got a nice discussion started
________
Wendie 99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[Mr. Bearcat]

"You just can't look past the collapses, the lack of improvement in his players, the lack of promoting the program and himself, the lack of postseason play, the so-so recruiting, etc. etc."

I might add, our decline under Mick is now affecting our TV exposure. We're not even scheduled for a Big Monday game this year. Less TV exposure leads to more difficulty getting ranked, loss of recruits who don't want to play for a team that is not getting televised nationally, etc., etc. As this thread is titled....Jason King is now showing us no love. This is like a snowball that starts rolling downhill. We've become irrelevent now in the college basketball landscape.

When do we stop the bleeding? Either Mick stops it by winning, or the administration must stop it.....soon! I shudder to think where we might be in two more years of no NCAA. Today, the only choice we have is Mick and I sure hope it all comes together this year. If not, I really don't think we can afford to wait another year....because do you really think the next year will be much better based on our recruits and all the players that will be leaving?

[Major ----de Coverley]

A poster named Longtimer used to have over-long repetitive and despairing commentary on a daily basis. I wonder if he is back under a new non de plume?

[Best Body]

My belief is that there are too many people here that can not say anything good about UC bball and so if they accomplish anything they will remain silent or still find something negative to discuss.

For one, I've often offerred to eat my words, and be very happy about it, if Mick succeeds. It has not yet been necessary.

On the flip side, there were alot of supporters talking about how crazy the doubters were at the beginning of last season & many predicted an NCAA appearance at minimum. I don't recall alot of people jumping on here to admit being wrong.

[ucat4]

The big issue is his players get worse the longer they play for him. Deonta is a good example. Bishop started every game as a freshman. As a junior, he is an attitude problem and gets kicked off the team. Dixon was solid as a freshman, falls apart as a Soph. Gates was all Big East Freshman, loafs around and sucks as a Soph. Davis seems to be getting better as a Soph....is horrible as a junior. Even Lance comes in and is killing it early on and then just disappears in the 2nd half of the season. What player has really prospered after Mick's guidance? I really can't think of one. Even Biggie showed some promise early on in his Freshman year, and his decline is just incredible. Wilks came in as a 4-star player with loads of talent and athleticism and now he is a senior and has never hit his stride.f promoting the program and himself, the lack of postseason play, the so-so recruiting, etc. etc.

This isn't just a big issue, this is the key problem w/ MC. For whatever reason, he just can't seem to get everything out of his guys. His player motivation & development skills are lacking greatly.

The only hope I have this year is the fact that we have a bunch of seniors and everyone else is a year older. Other than that, there's not much to be optimistic about.

[cincycpaw]

I understand your logic but I'm one of the ones who supports giving him year 6 for the good of the program. Here's why: If we fire him after this year, our 2011 recruiting will bolt and we'll be pretty much back in the same hole Mick started with. We cannot afford that. Year 7's a stretch without an excellent year 5 or 6. IMO, It doesn't matter whether I support Mick or not, Mick will likely be here through year 6 for recruiting reasons and that's "realistic".

So, what your saying is that if Mick isn't successful this season and UC gets rid of him, that he has put us back where he found us.

This is why when he wasn't relieved of his duties following last year's disappointment, it was basically ensuring he will be here for 2 more years. I agree.

[Deaf_Bearcat]

I have to agree with Jason. I don't see any progress on UC's current success. I hate to say this, but this does make sense what Jason observes. I hope we are all wrong this year.

[CincyEngGrad02]

jason King is a moran. Coach cronin and UC are poised for a great season now that they've gotten rid of LS and DV. Did King even see what they did in Canada? Plust add another year of Gates, Cash, and Parker getting betterr, and I think Mr. King will be very surprised this year.
We just need to make sure Gates doesn't become another thug by punching people.

[Lobot]

We just need to make sure Gates doesn't become another thug by punching people.

Was it really necessary to add that?

[Bearcat Otto]

Didn't Gates punch somebody in the Summer league and get kicked out of a game?

Maybe that's what he's talking about.

[Lobot]

Didn't Gates punch somebody in the Summer league and get kicked out of a game?

Maybe that's what he's talking about.

Yes, that person deserved it and why bring up negative crap when you don't have to?

[CincyEngGrad02]

Wow "deserved it"?!?! Awfully bold statement and definitely not one that should be made by a moderator.

[Ding Chavez]

I'm just going to keep my mouth shut. Last time I commented on a certain poster I was banned for three days.

[cmm27]

I wish I had that level of blind faith. But I do not see how losing the two leading scorers from last year's anemic team is in any way a benefit to the team. Enlighten me on that, please. There is nobody else on this roster that can be counted on to make an important shot or carry the team when it is needed. I think Cash or Parker have the ability to grow into a role like that, but they are not there yet. Last year I was a sweet 16 or bust guy, who had apparantly drank the kool-aid willingly. This year I do not see the level of talent or scoring, nor do I see anybody added to the roster that offers hope. I am not buying into Kilpatrick being the savior, or else he would have been playing last year because you are stupid to not have your best players play. But now its just going to get into restating all the same things over and over.

[Lobot]

Wow "deserved it"?!?! Awfully bold statement and definitely not one that should be made by a moderator.

That's your opinion and you never answered my question, Why bring up negative crap when you don't have to?