here's a question

[Joco45215]

If Mick Cronin lost his job today, would any other major D1 program hire him to be their head (mens) basketball coach? Im talking BCS type schools...big six or what not.....I dont see it....what about Chris Mack?

[adrock]

If Mick Cronin lost his job today, would any other major D1 program hire him to be their head (mens) basketball coach? Im talking BCS type schools...big six or what not.....I dont see it....what about Chris Mack?

Maybe. I think you'll agree that the rest of the country doesn't have the disdain for Cronin that many in our fan base have. To be honest he's still young, his pedigree as a recruiter is still intact, and the entirety of his experience at UC (whether you agree or not) can be largely blamed on the previous administration and coach. A hiring AD at another school would chalk that up to growing pains.

Flip side of the same question: If Mick Cronin lost his job today, would any major D1 coach consider being the head (men's) basketball coach at UC? If they did, could we afford them?

[ME80]

If Mick Cronin lost his job today, would any other major D1 program hire him to be their head (mens) basketball coach? Im talking BCS type schools...big six or what not.....I dont see it....what about Chris Mack?

I think he most definitely would. I truly believe the national perception of Mick is much better than the local one.

[bearcatbret]

I think that Mack might get looks but I also think that his resume might be too light right now. He took over a program that had the cupboards full. Wait until he has his own four year players in.

[Bearcat Otto]

I think that Mack might get looks but I also think that his resume might be too light right now. He took over a program that had the cupboards full. Weight until he has his own four year players in.

What cupboards are you looking at?

He had one scholarship player when he came here.

And he wasn't hired until after the recruiting process was nearly over to coach a team that had not recruited for two years.

The only thing in those cupboards was cobwebs!

[bearcatbret]

^ X was full of cubwebs and had not recruited for two years? I was unaware of that. After all, I was responding to the question about Mack not Mick.

[cincycpaw]

There is no way Mick would get hired at another BCS school immediately. He would have to drop back down a level and prove himself through winning first...or take an assistant's job at a major school. Not that he couldn't make he way back in a short period of time, but he'd have to earn his way back I think.

[oldcat48]

Prove himself again? Nope, Mick would have another BCS job in the time it would take to say, "lickety-split." Don't kid yourself into thinking any differently. Some people here are still ticked that he left Huggs, or they expected to win immediately with a team full of jucos, or they think we should have won the Big East like yesterday.

I'm not saying Mick will get the job done here. I'm saying he'd have another job pretty easily, imho. I see many more and much worse hires than Mick Cronin every year. And anyone who doesn't get that the guy walked into a maelstrom (and all that came with that) just isn't paying attention.

[juckerrules]

I think that Mack might get looks but I also think that his resume might be too light right now. He took over a program that had the cupboards full. Wait until he has his own four year players in.

I'm sure you meant to say empty, right?

Oh, never mind.....you were talking about Mack, not Mick...my bad

[nolte50uc]

What cupboards are you looking at?

He had one scholarship player when he came here.

And he wasn't hired until after the recruiting process was nearly over to coach a team that had not recruited for two years.

The only thing in those cupboards was cobwebs!

pretty sure the poster wasreferring to mack (xu), not mick (UC).

[Bearcat Otto]

^ X was full of cubwebs and had not recruited for two years? I was unaware of that. After all, I was responding to the question about Mack not Mick.

Ooops.

Poor reading skills!!!

[Pie Hole]

Come on........there is no way that Cronnin would land another job with a BCS program without first proving himself at UC (don't kid yourself). Sure, he had a good run at Murray State, but his hiring at UC was largely based on his affiliation with the city of Cincinnati. Regardless of what he inherited, Mick has proven himself to be nothing more than a decent recruiter and an average (to below average) head coach to this point. If he were let go today he would need to go back to a mid major program and re-establish his credibility.

[Carin's Dad]

Why is this even a thread?

Might as well discuss whether Pete Rose will make the HOF.

Mick will be here for a while longer. He deserves more time.

[Mr. Bearcat]

He might get a Div. 1 job, but not a major Div. 1 job, and that means in a BCS Conference. There is zero chance of that happening. He hasn't proven a thing as a coach, nor as a recruiter as a head coach. If you want to excuse his performance as a head coach at UC because of the cupboard being empty, then you also have to discount his success as a head coach at Murray St. because he took over a program with a full cupboard. Murray St. had eleven new recruits the next season after Cronin left, which means he had a very experienced team with mass graduations 3 years after he took over. Therefore, most of his players were recruited by the former coach and not by him.

He is never mentioned as one of the top young coaches in any publication or anything else. His team didn't even land a Big Monday game this year. High profile coaches can get some games televised just because of their reputation alone. He can change all of this with a great season this year, but is that really a high probablility? Bottom line, he has been here for 4 years. We aren't paying him a lot of money by today's standards. He hasn't been rumored for a single job. Wouldn't you think if he were so highly thought of that these supposed "Major" Div. 1 programs would be flocking to Clifton to lure him away? You are very naive to think he will be snatched up by a major program when/if he loses his job here

[BigDaddyCornHusker]

Why is this even a thread?

I was wondering the same thing.

[Mr. Bearcat]

Why is this even a thread?

Might as well discuss whether Pete Rose will make the HOF.

Mick will be here for a while longer. He deserves more time.

Back on August 2nd, you started a thread titled "Best Coaches Under 40" and began it by saying..... "Not. Even. Considered." This thread asks a valid question and is very similar to the subject that you yourself started in that thread in August, so isn't it hippocritical to question why this thread was created when you started one very similar.

There are many threads created during the year that try to shove the idea that Mick is the next Coach K down everyone's throats, but if someone starts one to discuss the opposite viewpoint, everyone gets defensive and questions why it is a thread.

It is a thread because there is a huge gap between how Bearcat fans view Mick Cronin and until he accomplishes something to unite the Bearcat Nation, both the "I Love Mick Cronin" and "I hate Mick Cronin" threads will continue to be started...as well as all subjects in between. It's a forum...these things are supposed to be discussed, and not surprisingly are also discussed in the forums of very successful programs as well.

[Joco45215]

I like Mick for UC, when he was hired he was an up comer but I believe Daddy gave the keys to the Cadilac to soon, he needed more expirence....we needed a stop gap coach...proven coach on an elite level.....Mick Cronin would have took this job over any in the country....Like every Cincinnati born and bred boy who grew up watching the Cats...Im sure his dream included playing for the Cats, when that didnt happen it meant coaching the Cats. They did something simular at Purdue, Keady had Painter go learn to be a head coach before he helped him get the Purdue job. I want Mick at Cincinnati because I know he loves the program, and will be here for 25 years. That being said he needed more expierence......Now he has it.....he has everything he's needed now player wise....

[Mr. Bearcat]

I like Mick for UC, when he was hired he was an up comer but I believe Daddy gave the keys to the Cadilac to soon, he needed more expirence....we needed a stop gap coach...proven coach on an elite level.....Mick Cronin would have took this job over any in the country....Like every Cincinnati born and bred boy who grew up watching the Cats...Im sure his dream included playing for the Cats, when that didnt happen it meant coaching the Cats. They did something simular at Purdue, Keady had Painter go learn to be a head coach before he helped him get the Purdue job. I want Mick at Cincinnati because I know he loves the program, and will be here for 25 years. That being said he needed more expierence......Now he has it.....he has everything he's needed now player wise....

What I think I hear you saying is that he has no excuses anymore. He has the experience. He has the players. Therefore, he should win now. I can buy that. It's the open-ended, he needs 10 full recruiting classes before we can judge him, he started with an empty cupboard, we can't get rid of him because these 3-star recruits will all leave, yada, yada, yada...that I can't buy anymore.

I don't hold a grudge because he bolted us and went to work for Pitino, but that certainly didn't show much loyalty to his head coach, nor especially to his Alma Mater by joining our #1 rival. Put it into perspective...if an unknown, obscure Ohio State grad was given a chance to be video coordinator for the Buckeyes, and then was promoted to top assistant to Jim Tressel, and after being given that enormous opportunity, then up and bolted to Michigan after a few years to do the same job for the Michigan head coach, do you think that coach would ever be hired as head coach for the Buckeyes? Not a chance!

We forgave Mick and gave him a head coaching job in the top conference in the world, even in spite of his lack of experience and his disloyalty. The price he has to pay is having big expectations, and having to take some heat when he doesn't live up to them. The formula for getting rid of the heat...just win baby!....that simple!

[subflea]

I don't hold a grudge because he bolted us and went to work for Pitino, but that certainly didn't show much loyalty to his head coach, nor especially to his Alma Mater by joining our #1 rival.


His head coach at the time was on his way out the door to head to his own alma mater.

[CincyEngGrad02]

His head coach at the time was on his way out the door to head to his own alma mater.

False. Huggins was never headed to WVU. He used that as leverage to get UC to give him use of a private jet for recruiting and personal use and that's exactly what he got out of the deal (and a few other things as well).

[Joco45215]

What I think I hear you saying is that he has no excuses anymore. He has the experience. He has the players. Therefore, he should win now. I can buy that. It's the open-ended, he needs 10 full recruiting classes before we can judge him, he started with an empty cupboard, we can't get rid of him because these 3-star recruits will all leave, yada, yada, yada...that I can't buy anymore.

I don't hold a grudge because he bolted us and went to work for Pitino, but that certainly didn't show much loyalty to his head coach, nor especially to his Alma Mater by joining our #1 rival. Put it into perspective...if an unknown, obscure Ohio State grad was given a chance to be video coordinator for the Buckeyes, and then was promoted to top assistant to Jim Tressel, and after being given that enormous opportunity, then up and bolted to Michigan after a few years to do the same job for the Michigan head coach, do you think that coach would ever be hired as head coach for the Buckeyes? Not a chance!

We forgave Mick and gave him a head coaching job in the top conference in the world, even in spite of his lack of experience and his disloyalty. The price he has to pay is having big expectations, and having to take some heat when he doesn't live up to them. The formula for getting rid of the heat...just win baby!....that simple!

I remember two years ago it was 4 recruiting classes, I even believe that came out of his mouth....but thats ok Ill give him as many as he needs...he can coach with the big boys it the little boys on his level that gets me upset teams that they should beat by thirty....you can beat west virginia then loose to providence or rutgers, you can beat louisvile then loose to a team like depaul....when it matters most.......give me a 6'5" power forward with a chip on his shoulder over a 6'9" nba body ready who just seems to go through the motions....give me a 6'0" sg who can make 3's in stead of a 6'5" who couldnt hit the broad side of the shoemaker center. GIVE ME 2 stars with heart hustle and who love playing defense....you dont have the size in the beast you make them teams out play you!.......it works look at butler! look how gonzaga go to prominence.....look how bob huggin brough uc to life in 1989.....Im sorry i just know growing up the bengals sucked, the reds sucked, cyclones sucked forget about UC football then they would hand out tickets when i walked to Hughes....All I had to brag about in Cincinnati was our UC bearcats basketball team! I got the rest now but I really miss my Bearcats dominating ANY team that came to the Shoe.....I miss them being on tv every game, I miss them being the big talk in cincinnati........

[Mr. Bearcat]

I remember two years ago it was 4 recruiting classes, I even believe that came out of his mouth....but thats ok Ill give him as many as he needs...he can coach with the big boys it the little boys on his level that gets me upset teams that they should beat by thirty....you can beat west virginia then loose to providence or rutgers, you can beat louisvile then loose to a team like depaul....when it matters most.......give me a 6'5" power forward with a chip on his shoulder over a 6'9" nba body ready who just seems to go through the motions....give me a 6'0" sg who can make 3's in stead of a 6'5" who couldnt hit the broad side of the shoemaker center. GIVE ME 2 stars with heart hustle and who love playing defense....you dont have the size in the beast you make them teams out play you!.......it works look at butler! look how gonzaga go to prominence.....look how bob huggin brough uc to life in 1989.....Im sorry i just know growing up the bengals sucked, the reds sucked, cyclones sucked forget about UC football then they would hand out tickets when i walked to Hughes....All I had to brag about in Cincinnati was our UC bearcats basketball team! I got the rest now but I really miss my Bearcats dominating ANY team that came to the Shoe.....I miss them being on tv every game, I miss them being the big talk in cincinnati........

Everyone misses that stuff. Therein lies the problem. 4 years .... tick .... tick .... tick .... Mick is our saviour. He must lead us to the promised land soon!

[red_n_black_attack]

Here's a question, what program did Tony Yates take over after leaving UC? Tony recruited well enough, got UC to the NIT, and is the man responsible for the shot clock (ala stall ball Dec 20, 1983 - what a tactic!!! Yawwwn). I mean someone that important to college basketball as to change the rules, someone who gained years of valuable experience. He must have left Clifton to have a Hall of Fame career at another fine institution, didn't he?

I like Mick, really I do. Very few people could have taken the program from nothing to the NCAA the first three years. Calipari and his paid player agents comes to mind. Mick did not meet my expectations last year with the talent he had. I wash out the first three years, but the time to win is now. We have had sentimental favorites in the past, players or from the area. This university is well positioned to be a top tier program (by conference affiliation, storied history, etc...) The expectation for Mick is get there soon, or get out. Everyone agrees on those points, the disagreement is when do we seek other options provided we do not return to glory? I say, Mick gets this year too. Next year will be year 6, and really only the third year of realistic expectations for winning now. Year 4 was close, but a failed expectation. Three straight years of failed expectations will be time to go another direction, the first three years were miserable, but the expectations those years were not great_

[bearcatbret]

I am not sure if he every tried to coach again. But he is still doing great work in the community with the Tony Yates foundation. However, I do get your point (70-100 record).

http://tonyyatesfoundation.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Yates





The mission of the Caring for Kids Foundation is to uplift, assist, and train youth and their families.

By providing exposure and experiences that allow insight and growth, the foundation strives to stimulate inner talents and intellect that lead to success. Founded by former University of Cincinnati basketball player and coach, Tony Yates and PGA golf professional Zachary Fink, the Caring for Kids Foundation has given hundreds of children exposure to a life-changing sport.

[red_n_black_attack]

Everyone misses that stuff. Therein lies the problem. 4 years .... tick .... tick .... tick .... Mick is our saviour. He must lead us to the promised land soon!

Wipe out any expectations the first three years. Everyone agrees if you fail to meet expectations 2-3 years in a row, you go. He only failed one year if you lower the expectations the first three years.

[JerseySean]

Would Butch Jones get another BCS job if he lost his job today? Could YOU get another job if you lost yours today?

[cmm27]

I feel compelled to make a comment, but everything has been said before. I will just point out that I generally find myself disagreeing with everybody about how long Cronin should remain our coach. I would like to see him get this year, and if he again fails to bring UC into the NCAA Tournament we say thank you and part ways. People can list every excuse they want to retain a coach, any coach at all really, but lack of success breeds future failures. Five years out from an NCAA birth? Six years out? UC struggles to apeal locally to the fan base in basketball. The fact that some want to point out that Cronin is not thought of as poorly nationally as he is locally is more a product of the fact that the national media has no idea who he is. All of that creates a further snowball effect on a still fractured fan base (how many years removed from that are we!?) on the recruiting trail and on media coverage. Something has to be done to rectify that, we all agree. The easiest way to solve this entire delima is for Cronin to win this year. He has a unique situation this year as well, where most everybody is giving him their full support for this season. He needs to not squander this opportunity. But that's all my opinion.

[Mr. Bearcat]

Wipe out any expectations the first three years. Everyone agrees if you fail to meet expectations 2-3 years in a row, you go. He only failed one year if you lower the expectations the first three years.

This is where the problem lies. I know lots of UC fans who absolutely expected success by year 3 and definitely by year 4. Tony Yates took the worst team in the history of the school in year one to the NIT in year 2. Nobody on Yates 1st team could have started on Mick's 1st team. I know...I saw every single game played by both of those two teams. Maybe Mark Dorris could have cracked Mick's 1st team. Dorris at 6'5" was the center on Yates 1st team. Mick's year two, year three and year four teams had their fingers wrapped around an NCAA bid and just bombed down the stretch losing to some very poor teams. He could have done it and probably should have done it. It's ridiculous to go beyond year 5 if progress isn't made this year. Last year was a step back with a worse record in the Big East from the year before...with a much more talented team.

When you start from ground zero, it should not be a challenge to show improvement every year until you get back to the NCAA and championship level basketball. You could argue a small amount of progress in year's 2 and 3, but no way can you argue that last year. This year should be substantial progress or sayonara!

[Joco45215]

Would Butch Jones get another BCS job if he lost his job today? Could YOU get another job if you lost yours today?

Butch Jones has a couple of years before any of us ask that question.....If i were a college basketball coach like Mick (with the same resume)I dont think I would be able to get a major posistion in a big six conference..... no

[red_n_black_attack]

I feel compelled ... Something has to be done to rectify that, we all agree. The easiest way to solve this entire delima is for Cronin to win this year. ...

I am a firm believer in giving any employee enough rope to either swing or hang themselves. I cut bait with an employee when it becomes clear he/she has no more room to grow or I have lost any hope of them succeeding. I would be in line to replace any coach in any sport if people (fans and players) lose faith in their ability to ever be successful. I see optimism on this board that Mick can win this year. I also see evidence that many have lost faith (a position I do not yet agree with). The question is not have you or have you not lost faith in Mick. I cannot change your minds, I can only defend why I feel Mick has not exhausted my faith in turning this ship around. For those who have already lost that faith, maybe you see something I don't or you are able to separate your passion from decision making process. Maybe you are simply smarter than me. I ask only that if you have some faith left, embrace it (the 'Cats haven't lost a game yet this season :D) and if you have no faith left - at least be supportive of the young men wearing Red-N-Black uniforms. Winning does not provide cure for all ills. There were some in Bearcat Nation who wanted more from BH, and those folks have been proved wrong - BH can win the big games. Coaches come and go. Players and students come and go. No one can ever take your or my love for our university away.

[Mr. Bearcat]

I am a firm believer in giving any employee enough rope to either swing or hang themselves. I cut bait with an employee when it becomes clear he/she has no more room to grow or I have lost any hope of them succeeding. I would be in line to replace any coach in any sport if people (fans and players) lose faith in their ability to ever be successful. I see optimism on this board that Mick can win this year. I also see evidence that many have lost faith (a position I do not yet agree with). The question is not have you or have you not lost faith in Mick. I cannot change your minds, I can only defend why I feel Mick has not exhausted my faith in turning this ship around. For those who have already lost that faith, maybe you see something I don't or you are able to separate your passion from decision making process. Maybe you are simply smarter than me. I ask only that if you have some faith left, embrace it (the 'Cats haven't lost a game yet this season :D) and if you have no faith left - at least be supportive of the young men wearing Red-N-Black uniforms. Winning does not provide cure for all ills. There were some in Bearcat Nation who wanted more from BH, and those folks have been proved wrong - BH can win the big games. Coaches come and go. Players and students come and go. No one can ever take your or my love for our university away.

Great post! Both sides of this issue are passionate and I know both sides are all huge Bearcat fans. In another month, all the debating is over and another season begins and I think we'll all be rooting hard for our team to win and win big. If we achieve success this season, there is no debate....Mick is our coach...and he deserves it! We don't need to discuss failure. Our program is due for some success. Personally, I don't care who our coach is as long as we're successful and there is only one benchmark for success in college basketball...being selected to the NCAA Tournament. That only requires you to be ranked 68th in the nation and shouldn't be too much to expect for a 5th year coach in one of the all-time great college basketball programs ever.

[Joco45215]

Great post! Both sides of this issue are passionate and I know both sides are all huge Bearcat fans. In another month, all the debating is over and another season begins and I think we'll all be rooting hard for our team to win and win big. If we achieve success this season, there is no debate....Mick is our coach...and he deserves it! We don't need to discuss failure. Our program is due for some success. Personally, I don't care who our coach is as long as we're successful and there is only one benchmark for success in college basketball...being selected to the NCAA Tournament. That only requires you to be ranked 68th in the nation and shouldn't be too much to expect for a 5th year coach in one of the all-time great college basketball programs ever.

I agree, and Im sure Mick does too

[BearcatAlum1]

I agree, and Im sure Mick does too

The top 68 teams do not make the NCAA. Most of the auto-qualifiers are garbage.

Regardless, this team should be able to compete (and earn) an NCAA birth.

[coach]

Mighty Murray State!

[red_n_black_attack]

Mighty Murray State!

Did Murray State receive an at-large bid?

[Pruke]

Why is this even a thread?

Might as well discuss whether Pete Rose will make the HOF.

Mick will be here for a while longer. He deserves more time.

Roger this.