Aftermath - Thoughts from this weekend's games

[GoCats1994]

Positives


Vaughn can score
Free Throw shooting was adequate
They finally have some size


Negatives


They played with very little heart (with the exception of Larry Davis and Adam H)
They seemed to get out coached 3 out of 3 games (just calling them as I see them)
This team can expect to see a steady diet of zone defenses until they show they can beat them
Crowds.....yeesh. I was in attendance for two of the three games....many, many empty seats
Vaughn is not a very good point guard yet. His ball handling seems to have improved from last year (this is a positive) although he was not able to get the team into any offensive flow



Hopefully the coaching staff found enough to build on. I think my biggest concern is what I listed first in the negatives above. I can understand the lack of experience, but not a lack of hustle/effort. Outside of a handful of dives and deflections....it did not seem like the Bearcats played with a lot of intensity this weekend.

Hopefully they will get this on track soon.

Go Bearcats!

[ucmba2002]

agreed on the coaching...the only thing that UC can do right on defense is full court press...and what does Croning choose to do - go zone. Have you seen how many open three's we give up in man to man? Zone is going to solve this???

Very bad coaching so far and even worse effort by the players...

I think we will look back in 3 years when Ole Miss is winning the SEC and regret letting Andy slip away.

[ralph1950]

This is rebuilding year # 2, Mick has chosen to go the Freshman route rather than the JUCO route, and good for Mick. This season is all about how much better they are in March than they are right now.

[bearcatfan]

It's tough to sugar coat any of what happened this weekend. Even with all the new players, nobody expected UC to be 1-2 at this point.

I too am disappointed in the almost total lack of defense. I do think it improved significantly from the first game, but it's still bad. The coaching staff does need to accept much of the blame for this. I am upset that UC did not look very prepared to start the season.

I see potential. But the players need to play stronger, especially inside.

The coaching staff also needs to improve. On another post I said I am still not sure what UC's offense is supposed to look like. Some of that is getting all the new players to mesh.

Hopefully they learned some things in the 3 games and will come out with a strong win in the next game.

[London 'Cat]

This team cannot play defense, as Cronin said. In my opinion, they double-team too much, leaving open shooters all over the place and cutters free for layups. Given the inexperience of this team, they should avoid double-teams on defense and focus on staying in front of the offensive player. Maybe they still lose, but at least shots will be contested. I can't stand a team making double digit threes and layups.

[GoCats1994]

The problem in trying to figure out what the offense is supposed to look like is that they only saw one defense this weekend. If memory serves correctly, they played 120 minutes of basketball against a 2-3 zone. The result? A lot of non-motion offense where 4 Bearcats stood around the perimeter and 1 player moved across the lane. The Bearcats had little penetration into the lane. They did not shoot over the zone particularly well either.

This is why I made the comment above about Vaughn not yet being a very good point guard. He will do things that make the box score look good (example - points scored) although he did NOTHING to get the offense on track.

Please don't misinterpret my post. I understand they are young/inexperienced/etc. I understand this is year #2 in a rebuilding project. However, I am surprised to see the lack of intensity and the lack of creative coaching.

[GoCats1994]

Also - I am not down on Vaughn. I believe he is the best option we have at point guard right now.

Although to me, it is obvious that we still need a point guard on the recruiting front.

[shaunsimpson]

We did get Wright for next year, but this year is going to be ugly.

How is this team worse with more talent and more experience than last year?

[IKnowMoreThanYou]

What is troublesome to me is McClain had 8 points and 7 boards (6 offensive) in just 10 minutes. Why wasn't he in the game more? If BG was on fire and UC's shooting was so awful why not put the big guy in there and have him crash the glass some more? He had zero fouls. I was encouraged by his play and by Bishop's who really seems to fill up the box score in a positive way and not just in one category.

This will be a learning experience and 3 games in 3 days is a bit of trial by fire. And also, people have mentioned they'd like to see improvement from the returning guys but other than Jamual, who is hurt, Sikes, Williamson and Gentry all had offseason surgery, so I'm not surprised it is taking them a bit longer to get the picture and if they are supposed to know where everyone is supposed to be on the defensive end hopefully breaking down the film from this weekend will help.

PG play has been crucial since Warren is hurt, Vaughn is retransitioning to the position and there is no other player on the roster with more than spot PG experience. I'll be patient only 3 games into the season. I want to see progress but a few things do bother me.

I want see some fire and determination, like the kind Ben Mauk exhibits on the field. Someone needs to be the leader on the floor.

[bearcatgary]

We did get Wright for next year, but this year is going to be ugly.

How is this team worse with more talent and more experience than last year?

Yes, that is exactly what I'm trying to figure out. We lost McGowan. Was he really the glue that held this team toghether?

--Gary

[Inchickinkick]

I think they turned the ball over too many times.

[tophat]

What is troublesome to me is McClain had 8 points and 7 boards (6 offensive) in just 10 minutes. Why wasn't he in the game more? If BG was on fire and UC's shooting was so awful why not put the big guy in there and have him crash the glass some more? He had zero fouls. I was encouraged by his play and by Bishop's who really seems to fill up the box score in a positive way and not just in one category.

This will be a learning experience and 3 games in 3 days is a bit of trial by fire. And also, people have mentioned they'd like to see improvement from the returning guys but other than Jamual, who is hurt, Sikes, Williamson and Gentry all had offseason surgery, so I'm not surprised it is taking them a bit longer to get the picture and if they are supposed to know where everyone is supposed to be on the defensive end hopefully breaking down the film from this weekend will help.

PG play has been crucial since Warren is hurt, Vaughn is retransitioning to the position and there is no other player on the roster with more than spot PG experience. I'll be patient only 3 games into the season. I want to see progress but a few things do bother me.

I want see some fire and determination, like the kind Ben Mauk exhibits on the field. Someone needs to be the leader on the floor.

You have poor talent among the senior class, injuries to key players, several green freshmen he's trying to work into the lineup and it's only early November. They never used to even start playing games till Dec 1.

This team overachieved last year in beating teams like X, North Carolina St and WVU it didn't even belong on the same floor with, and in coming close to others. It did so because MC got them to play hard, and this team will as well.

I hate to see the losses too, cause it looks like another losing season. But this season is about rebuilding with talented freshmen, with more help on the way. I expect to win next year and compete for an NCAA bid. We're just not there yet.

[shaunsimpson]

Hate to say this, but do we scrap this year and try to get the freshman and Vaughn ready for the future by sacrafising the PT of the seniors?

I don't think we need to do this yet, but looking at the games I think we lose to Xavier, Memphis and Illinois St. After that freshman development may be the goal.

[jeffto]

I don't think it would be fair to expect much improvement from Fri. to Sun., but now the coaches should have a pretty good assessment of game related strengths and weaknesses, we should see some good improvement by Friday. If not? Well......???

[GoCats1994]

Getting back to the original post...

This was not intended to be a commentary on the losses themselves. What was more important to me was how they lost. I was concerned to see what I perceived to be a lack of effort and what seemed to be situations where we got out coached.

Perhaps I am being too critical...although I was expecting to see more. I wasn't concerned so much with the score board. I was hoping to see glimpses of a rebuilding program. Unfortunately, I was disappointed.

I hope this weekend was the exception and not the rule.

[ralph1950]

Getting back to the original post...

This was not intended to be a commentary on the losses themselves. What was more important to me was how they lost. I was concerned to see what I perceived to be a lack of effort and what seemed to be situations where we got out coached.

Perhaps I am being too critical...although I was expecting to see more. I wasn't concerned so much with the score board. I was hoping to see glimpses of a rebuilding program. Unfortunately, I was disappointed.

I hope this weekend was the exception and not the rule.

The team played hard but their execution left a lot to be desired. They shot too many early 3's, I thought Mick might tell them that if they shot the ball before Biggie touched it they would never play again.

This team is extremely green, a work in progress, Jamal Warren breaking his hand did not help the situation, and will get better with each game. The best thing about freshman is that they become sophomores.

[Thegreatone]

There is no doubt we look to get the freshman better. Adam H and John Williamson and Gentry arent going to be here when we are able to compete for a BE title. Biggie, Mitchell, and Larry Davis will. This year wins and loses are not the biggest factor. We arent doing it this year, we try to win, but getting experience and getting better is the ultimate goal.

[Nerf]

I don't think it would be fair to expect much improvement from Fri. to Sun., but now the coaches should have a pretty good assessment of game related strengths and weaknesses, we should see some good improvement by Friday. If not? Well......???

Exactly what I was thinking. IMO scheduling three in a row this early was probably a mistake. It's difficult to break down film and implement the changes necessary so quickly with so many freshmen.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Cronin's comments in Enquirer and Post today were alarming (to me). Players not listening to the coaches, or not taking their words to heart. Last year, they did. Not this year (so far).

[jeffto]

I haven't seen why Davis played so little Sunday. Can someone tell me? Thanks

[SLMadiCat]

I think a lot of people are forgetting just how many minutes Vaughn played this weekend. He played 37 against Belmont, 39 against W. Carolina, and 36 against BGSU. That is a lot of minutes to start the season off. I can hardly imagine how tired and sore he was just after the first game. I think he gave great effort, but that is a lot to ask of your PG without a real backup and it being your first year as being the full-time PG. He'll improve.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Cause Gentry is so good at the 2? (can't type that with a straight face....he is terrible)

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I think a lot of people are forgetting just how many minutes Vaughn played this weekend. He played 37 against Belmont, 39 against W. Carolina, and 36 against BGSU. That is a lot of minutes to start the season off. I can hardly imagine how tired and sore he was just after the first game. I think he gave great effort, but that is a lot to ask of your PG without a real backup and it being your first year as being the full-time PG. He'll improve.

Bishop played PG last year at his 5th year Prep school. How bad could he be for 5 minutes here, 5 minutes there as back-up PG?

[SLMadiCat]

Bishop played PG last year at his 5th year Prep school. How bad could he be for 5 minutes here, 5 minutes there as back-up PG?

They looked lost without Vaughn in there. Mick tried to give Vaughn breathers but they really struggled (even more so than with him in the game) when he came out.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

They looked lost without Vaughn in there. Mick tried to give Vaughn breathers but they really struggled (even more so than with him in the game) when he came out.

They looked pretty lost with Vaughn IN there, too. How could it hurt?

PG have no business taking 12 three pointers.

[Colonel]

Positives


Vaughn can score
Free Throw shooting was adequate
They finally have some size


Negatives


They played with very little heart (with the exception of Larry Davis and Adam H)
They seemed to get out coached 3 out of 3 games (just calling them as I see them)
This team can expect to see a steady diet of zone defenses until they show they can beat them
Crowds.....yeesh. I was in attendance for two of the three games....many, many empty seats
Vaughn is not a very good point guard yet. His ball handling seems to have improved from last year (this is a positive) although he was not able to get the team into any offensive flow



Hopefully the coaching staff found enough to build on. I think my biggest concern is what I listed first in the negatives above. I can understand the lack of experience, but not a lack of hustle/effort. Outside of a handful of dives and deflections....it did not seem like the Bearcats played with a lot of intensity this weekend.

Hopefully they will get this on track soon.

Go Bearcats!

I only got to see the BGSU game. My thoughts:


Vaughn can score, when his confidence is there.
Free throw isnt bad, but always can get better.
Size is there, now to get them to work with it.
-------------------------------------------------
Definately no heart. They seemed very bored and lack luster. I know its three games in a row...
Out coached? Maybe. But its up to the player to learn. When you get schooled time after time on a play regardless of sport, you need to figure something out. Im not sure where the onus is on more. The player or the coach.
Confusion. Regardless of who was on the court, they seemed very lost as to what to do. There were some good plays, but when they came out after that last timeout and basically just stood there while Vaughn ran around and hucked up a shot; I doubt thats how the play was drawn up.
Empty seats. Ill say. I enquired about the seats and 30+ for tickets! I guess I am old school and remember when I was paying 18 a ticket. 30 is just plain ridiculous. I am an avid fan, but cost per game...holy cow.
I agree about the lack of hustle. You might not "gell" right off considering we have a ton of freshman {positive} (they are not all Ju-Cos), but you have to bust butt.

[Mick's Da Man]

This is rebuilding year # 2, Mick has chosen to go the Freshman route rather than the JUCO route, and good for Mick. This season is all about how much better they are in March than they are right now.

I disagree. For me, this is rebuilding year #1. Last year, other than acquiring Vaughn and Mike Williams (still unable to play), the other JUCO's were just filler for me. I appreciate all they've done, but they were not cornerstones to rebuildling. We needed to field a team and they were the only ones available.

Thus, this is rebuilding year #1 to me.

[Bearcats_Rule]

I only got to see the BGSU game. My thoughts:


Vaughn can score, when his confidence is there.
Free throw isnt bad, but always can get better.
Size is there, now to get them to work with it.
-------------------------------------------------
Definately no heart. They seemed very bored and lack luster. I know its three games in a row...
Out coached? Maybe. But its up to the player to learn. When you get schooled time after time on a play regardless of sport, you need to figure something out. Im not sure where the onus is on more. The player or the coach.
Confusion. Regardless of who was on the court, they seemed very lost as to what to do. There were some good plays, but when they came out after that last timeout and basically just stood there while Vaughn ran around and hucked up a shot; I doubt thats how the play was drawn up.
Empty seats. Ill say. I enquired about the seats and 30+ for tickets! I guess I am old school and remember when I was paying 18 a ticket. 30 is just plain ridiculous. I am an avid fan, but cost per game...holy cow.
I agree about the lack of hustle. You might not "gell" right off considering we have a ton of freshman {positive} (they are not all Ju-Cos), but you have to bust butt.


I was thinking about that last night. NO HEART. I am sure that all these kids do not know what we have seen the past 15 years. Do they know what it means to wear a UC uniform? Do they know how all the players before them never gave up and fought like warriors year in and year out? I think it would be a good idea to show some of them how hard the Bearcats used to play defense and hustle the whole game and dive for loose balls.... The old bearcats left it all out on the court!!!! They had heart and they were warriors til the end. I did not see that same hustle and determination of old. They need to see and know what it means to be a University of Cincinnati Basketball player!! Heart is important!!!! I hope that they will realize what it means to be a BEARCAT... sooner than later!!!

[Colonel]

I disagree. For me, this is rebuilding year #1. Last year, other than acquiring Vaughn and Mike Williams (still unable to play), the other JUCO's were just filler for me. I appreciate all they've done, but they were not cornerstones to rebuildling. We needed to field a team and they were the only ones available.

Thus, this is rebuilding year #1 to me.

Agreed. See my post above. I am glad to see Freshman rather than JUCO's. And like you, I appreciate the service provided during the need, but I am hoping to see longer runs and more consistancy out of teams that have played together longer.

[STKohls]

PG have no business taking 12 three pointers.

I seem to remember a few successful UC point guards that regularly threw up a dozen three pointers.

And you may not have noticed, but Sunday he was 5-12 on those 3 pointers (while the rest of the team was 2-13). Our PG is 42% from beyond the arc? I'll take that all year.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I seem to remember a few successful UC point guards that regularly threw up a dozen three pointers.

And you may not have noticed, but Sunday he was 5-12 on those 3 pointers (while the rest of the team was 2-13). Our PG is 42% from beyond the arc? I'll take that all year.

Regardless, PG who shoot a lot don't win very often.

The only shooting PG I remember was Van Exel in 1993. That team had Blount, Martin, Nelson, and a whole lot more talent.

Logan was more of a SG with Satterfield at PG.

[Bearcat Cafe]

I seem to remember a few successful UC point guards that regularly threw up a dozen three pointers.

And you may not have noticed, but Sunday he was 5-12 on those 3 pointers (while the rest of the team was 2-13). Our PG is 42% from beyond the arc? I'll take that all year.

And about 9 of those three point attempts - and noteably the one to tie - were not at all within the offense. He is a freelancer with really bad shot selection. Not a good trait for a PG.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I seem to remember a few successful UC point guards that regularly threw up a dozen three pointers.

And you may not have noticed, but Sunday he was 5-12 on those 3 pointers (while the rest of the team was 2-13). Our PG is 42% from beyond the arc? I'll take that all year.

Actually 31% on the season. And 34% FG overall.

05 Vaughn, Deonta 3-3 112 37.3 13-38 .342 8-26 .308 7-10 .700 3 9 12 4.0 8 0 17 14 0 3 41 13.7