Kilpatrick > Lance?

[BasketBySteveLogan]

How much better does the TEAM look with SK than with Lance in there last year?

[Corporateballa]

Great thread. I was thinking the same thing. SK is the best player on this team. Tonight I saw the same player that dominated Deon Dixon at the Deveroes league two summers ago.

No other player on the roster has scored as many as 26 points in a college game. Just begs the question of why he was redshirted last year?

[Bearcat Bounce]

Tons. SK makes shots...Lance didn't.

[shaunsimpson]

I said this after the first game. The offense sure moves better with him (even if the shots don't always go down). This is more of a team this year for sure and Sk and Dixon being there instead of Lance and Vaughn could prove to be a positive. However, it is still early in the year. Our good win over Dayton just took a little hit.

[Who Dey Time]

SK is definitely able to score within the team's offensive gameplan. Lance was much more of a one on one player.

[TheLivingLegend]

Killa is going to have games like this and hes going to have games where he barely scores.. Hes still a freshman.

[Thegreatone]

We can talk about how good Sean Kilpatrick is without ripping Lance. Lance does something things better than SK can do but I love Sean right now and his ability to shoot the 3 is a huge help

[GoCats1994]

^ Greatone...agree 100%

Another thing to consider - who on this team do we want to have the ball when the game is on the line with time running out? Who do we want to take the big shot?

SK?

Maybe. But, we have yet to see him (or anyone else on the team) succeed in that role.

Eventually, that question will need to be answered.

[bearcated]

SK could be stronger with the ball. That minor gripe aside, it is nice to see this team finally have a true pure shooter. Goodness knows it's been a while.

[coach]

kilpatrick is a much better long range shooter. he needs to play at least 25 minutes a game on this team as he's the best shooter they have. from what i've seen in the deveroes league, he does have some off nights. however, he is generally on and i think if he gets minutes can lead them in scoring. the shame is that he and ls were good friends and i think if we could have played sk at the two and ls at the 3, it would have been dynamite. it would really have opened things up for ls to attack the basket. oh well, onward and upward.

[dp3113]

^ Greatone...agree 100%

Another thing to consider - who on this team do we want to have the ball when the game is on the line with time running out? Who do we want to take the big shot?

SK?

Maybe. But, we have yet to see him (or anyone else on the team) succeed in that role.

Eventually, that question will need to be answered.

agree 100%- that is my biggest fear that i have been trying to preach for a while. the whole "we dont know who will step up each night" thing is nice and all, but we have no real proven guys on the perimeter who know will take the ball and get us points when we are down 4 with 90 seconds left.

maybe bishop, who has hit some big shots in the past, and being a senior now can be that guy for us- who knows. regardless, i think this is one of our biggest concerns right now. a lot can be said for consistency.

[BearcatAlum1]

I agree w/Great One that there is no need to rip Lance to compliment Sean.

Sean has some touch from outside and quite possibly more polish than Lance. Lance had more athleticism and hype.

It's nice to see Sean play well. He may need 20-25 minutes because he has the ability to shoot it and spread the floor, as many have mentioned. However, he MUST improve his defense.

[BearcatCJR23]

Agree 100% on not ripping lance...

SK is more of a polished all around basketball player. He scores in any way he can, hence cronin's comments "he can fall out of bed and get 10". Lance on the other hand is an athlete and pure scorer. This is Cincinnati, not Rucker Park so I'd rather have an SK type player on my team.

I don't know how you guys feel, but I LOVE this team. They aren't highly touted, recruited, or recognized, but they play the brand of basketball I love. I'm not a Mick hater or lover, just in the middle, but I still question his lineups and "in game" adjustments/coaching. Last nights big question was why do you wait 6 minutes of game action to bring in your hottest player for the 2nd half. I'm ok not starting him either half, but no need to wait 6 minutes to get him back in. Also, the lineup towards the end that included Gates, Wilks or Jackson, then davis, SK, and dixon....thats when WSU made their run, in my opinion it was the end of game and time to get bishop back in there for Wilks/Jackson and a pg for davis....cash was hurt apparently, so what was wrong with Parker?

[Bearcat Cafe]

Not a fair assessment. Only one of them was saddled with having to play both ends of the court with DV.

[BearcatAlum1]

Agree 100% on not ripping lance...

SK is more of a polished all around basketball player. He scores in any way he can, hence cronin's comments "he can fall out of bed and get 10". Lance on the other hand is an athlete and pure scorer. This is Cincinnati, not Rucker Park so I'd rather have an SK type player on my team.

I don't know how you guys feel, but I LOVE this team. They aren't highly touted, recruited, or recognized, but they play the brand of basketball I love. I'm not a Mick hater or lover, just in the middle, but I still question his lineups and "in game" adjustments/coaching. Last nights big question was why do you wait 6 minutes of game action to bring in your hottest player for the 2nd half. I'm ok not starting him either half, but no need to wait 6 minutes to get him back in. Also, the lineup towards the end that included Gates, Wilks or Jackson, then davis, SK, and dixon....thats when WSU made their run, in my opinion it was the end of game and time to get bishop back in there for Wilks/Jackson and a pg for davis....cash was hurt apparently, so what was wrong with Parker?

I agree on your points.

1. When the other team goes on a run against our "reserve" line-up, I want to see either A) quick timeout after consecutive baskets against us OR B) sub starters or "A" line-up back in game.

If you like SK, you'll love the 2011 recruiting class.

[bearcats011]

What makes you say that? ^

[Mr. Bearcat]

The attitude of not ripping Lance should be extended to Deonta Vaughn as well. This forum has been brutal toward Deonta and he did a he11 of a lot more for this university and this program than Lance Stephenson ever did.

I didn't like SK sitting for 6 to 7 minutes as well. Mick's substitutions and bench time are bizarre. He took Dixon out midway through the first half and never put him back in until the second half. He has been arguably our best player and possibly our hardest worker in the offseason. Why do you sit him for half of the 1st half in a tight ballgame. Why do you sit SK at all the way he was playing. I'm still not a huge Bishop fan, but I have warmed to him some the last week or so. But, he too disappeared for long stretches on the bench last night. I'm just not used to seeing starters disappear for so long on the bench during games. But, who am I to question an undefeated coach?

[Mr. Bearcat]

I agree on your points.

1. When the other team goes on a run against our "reserve" line-up, I want to see either A) quick timeout after consecutive baskets against us OR B) sub starters or "A" line-up back in game.

If you like SK, you'll love the 2011 recruiting class.

I've went on Youtube and watched highlights from all our recruits and the one that really excites me is Shaq Thomas. He looks like a real player. They all look good, but a general feeling that I got watching their highlight videos was that they generally didn't look super quick. I still wish we could upgrade our quickness some. When you watch Kansas, Duke, NC, Kentucky, etc. the speed jumps out at you. I think you need quick athleticism to really have a true shot at a national title. Justin Jackson is an example of quick athleticism. He reminds me of Kenyon Martin as a freshman...lots of hustle and quickness and defense, and attitude. Watching our incoming recruits, Thomas resembled that the most to me. I honestly expected Cashmere Wright to be lightening fast up and down the court, but he has disappointed me somewhat. He doesn't push the pace like he was billed. But yes, I let the 3-stars get me down a little, but after watching the videos, I feel a lot better. I agree with you, outside of a concern about our size, those new recruits have me a little excited too.

[BearcatAlum1]

What makes you say that? ^

You have a PM.

[MDW79]

Can't really make the comparison, two different teams. Big difference if you're playing with Vaughn, a Frosh PG, a younger everybody and a just arrived Thomas. The makeup is totally different.

I think people do forget that Lance looked very good early on. IMO, we never really settled on a way to use him and his role was never defined. I think he was actually better early in the year and definitely regressed until he turned back on somewhat in the conference tourney.

Remember early on he was running some point at times, but most importantly the ball went through him late in the game. That definitely changed as the season went on. You can blame that on him, on his concentration, whatever but I don't think he had much of a clue on what his role was. If you look at Lance in the OOC, specifically X, and then in league play, almost two completely different players.

SK looks as advertised, which is great. I have to wonder if we coulda used his shooting last year and given all those minutes Davis logged to him. (How does Davis still play by the way???)

[Best Body]

[QUOTE=Mr. Bearcat;166328]The attitude of not ripping Lance should be extended to Deonta Vaughn as well. This forum has been brutal toward Deonta and he did a he11 of a lot more for this university and this program than Lance Stephenson ever did.
QUOTE]

In fairness, he played 4 years vs. 1. I'm not sure I think he did more than Lance last year.

The thing is about ripping either is that we now have guys starting that couldn't even come close to beating out either of them for starting spots.

That being said I would pay to hear Mick explain in detail why SK was redshirted last year. I can understand that there may not have been enough minutes for everyone, but another scoring option was badly needed & I doubt the kid is a totally different (better) player than he was last fall.

[Bearcat Cafe]

Don't have to pay to listen to Mick. Go to one of the Caravans. He went into why they redshirted him in detail.

Was afraid getting limited minutes SK would get frustrated and transfer out. Talked it over with his family and they all agreed this would be best.

[cincycpaw]

Lance is the better basketball player. There is no question.

A big difference is in the coaching. Mick seems to know how to use SK better than he ever did with Lance.

[shaunsimpson]

Lance is the better basketball player. There is no question.

A big difference is in the coaching. Mick seems to know how to use SK better than he ever did with Lance.

Lance may have been more skilled, but he was lacking the little things, SK is better at moving without the ball and puts himself in better position. If I have 10 seconds left and the ball is at the top of the key I want Lance to have it, but Lance didn't seem to get himself in position. I thought that they were going to be similar players, but I think they are very different.

[waterhead]

At this point if you gave me the option I would take SK in a heartbeat. That's not a knock on Lance. SK will play more years for us...not sure it's going to be 4 though.

The main thing I like about SK is he doesn't force the issue...he stays in control and lets the game come to him. Lance may have more skills and a higher ceiling...but he was often out of control last year leading to bad shots or turnovers.

We are simply getting better shots this year and SK gives us a threat that we didn't have last year...a legitimate three point threat. The rest of his game is very mature for a first year guy. Other than D I can't think of too many knocks on SK. He makes the team better. It wasn't Lance's fault that he was force fed the ball. If we played team ball last year...Lance would have had a bigger impact IMO. Last year's situation was mis-managed and this year Mick is doing a nice job with continuity.

[Mr. Bearcat]

Lance obviously had a lot more hype. I don't necessarily believe he was unquestionably much better than SK. I've already seen SK do a he11 of a lot of things I never saw Lance do last year. Lance was flamboyant, and had supreme confidense, but that didn't always transfer to the stat sheet. SK does more than fill the stat sheet. He does a whole lot of the little things that typically go unnoticed to the average fan, that coaches love and that add significantly to team chemistry. I never got the feeling that Lance had a grasp of the team chemisty concept.

[jadam222]

We can talk about how good Sean Kilpatrick is without ripping Lance. Lance does something things better than SK can do but I love Sean right now and his ability to shoot the 3 is a huge help

Agreed. Lance will need to learn to be more of a team player. That is expected because he - and Vaughn here - were depended on to carry teams. You don't have to do that in college. Last year the offense ran through Lance and then Vaughn. The rest of the players did not really know their role. My guess is that as the season progresses, the team will get even better as confidence comes back to the players. I WOULD like to see Yancey step up more. He should dominate inside. He is getting better but not there yet.

If Lance's shot was on the mark last year he would have been a lottery pick. He has amazing talent that cannot be denied and we are very fortunate that he came through here. I still believe that Mick will get it done. I always stated that. We are closer and I would be surprised if this team does not finally get us over the hump. Sometimes things take time. I don't see Crean setting the world on fire yet either - and his situation was not as bad.

Losing does not feel good - especially when we were all used to the winning. We will get it back. With all that Mick has been through coming here, the bashing you see here but primarily on the Enquirer's blog, and divorce, the man has showed much moxie. He has earned my respect and we are all very lucky he signed up for the task. Outside of the top names at that time - who were not coming here in that situation - he was the best choice. Not only capable of doing it but loving this school and city. I hope we have the great success because the man deserves it in my opinion.

[cincycpaw]

Lance may have been more skilled, but he was lacking the little things, SK is better at moving without the ball and puts himself in better position. If I have 10 seconds left and the ball is at the top of the key I want Lance to have it, but Lance didn't seem to get himself in position. I thought that they were going to be similar players, but I think they are very different.

That where the coaching comes into play...

[BasketBySteveLogan]

Real quick---- the point of this thread is the TEAM.

Not who's better, Lance or SK.

I'm saying just watching the offense... and the energy out there, it's no comparison.

[MDW79]

A better question might be: Would this team be better, and how would they look had Lance stayed?

Cronin is already bringing SK off the bench, and you could easily slide him or Lance to the 3, or Lance to the 1 to make room. What would this team look like?

There was a good chance Lance was coming back, kinda fun to imagine what they may have looked like. I know everybody loves to jump on the we're finally team concept but who's to say Lance doesn't come back and push the heck out of this team and carry them? Maybe Cronin gets him in the right place this year, maybe it was Vaughn who was the problem, maybe Lance makes this team top 15. Is it that crazy to think? I'm not sure.

How does a lineup of Cash-Lance-SK-Gates-Thomas sound? I know, I know, a bunch of people would hate it.

[bearcats011]

A better question might be: Would this team be better, and how would they look had Lance stayed?

Cronin is already bringing SK off the bench, and you could easily slide him or Lance to the 3, or Lance to the 1 to make room. What would this team look like?

There was a good chance Lance was coming back, kinda fun to imagine what they may have looked like. I know everybody loves to jump on the we're finally team concept but who's to say Lance doesn't come back and push the heck out of this team and carry them? Maybe Cronin gets him in the right place this year, maybe it was Vaughn who was the problem, maybe Lance makes this team top 15. Is it that crazy to think? I'm not sure.

How does a lineup of Cash-Lance-SK-Gates-Thomas sound? I know, I know, a bunch of people would hate it.

It sounds very appealing to me as well. That on paper looks like a top 15 team.. But I think some issues popped up with lance and a few guys team chemistry wise

[B-Team]

I like most parts of this year's team better than last year's team; however, the one glaring weakness right now on this year's team is this:

-If UC is down 2 points with 10 seconds to go against Villanova, who would you like the ball to be in the hands on this year's team? Who on the 2010-2011 roster has the ability to take a guy one-on-one to create something? I don't think we have anyone (yet). Lance did have the ability to take a guy one-on-one and create something.


On another topic, the more I see SK play, the more I wonder why he was redshirted last year. A huge weakness on last year's team was the outside shot. I wonder how much impact SK could have had in a bench role in coming into to make the outside shot. Would that have been enough to get us into the NCAA tournament last year? I really don't think we were that far away in making it as a team last year.

[waterhead]

A better question might be: Would this team be better, and how would they look had Lance stayed?

Cronin is already bringing SK off the bench, and you could easily slide him or Lance to the 3, or Lance to the 1 to make room. What would this team look like?

There was a good chance Lance was coming back, kinda fun to imagine what they may have looked like. I know everybody loves to jump on the we're finally team concept but who's to say Lance doesn't come back and push the heck out of this team and carry them? Maybe Cronin gets him in the right place this year, maybe it was Vaughn who was the problem, maybe Lance makes this team top 15. Is it that crazy to think? I'm not sure.

How does a lineup of Cash-Lance-SK-Gates-Thomas sound? I know, I know, a bunch of people would hate it.

This may sound ridiculous but the only way I see Lance coming back as being a good thing right now...is if the coaching philosophy would have changed as it did this year. If the game was going to mostly flow through Lance...I am not sure it would have been a good thing.

I really like what balance has done to this team. If Lance played on this team with the same coaching philosophy as this team...it would have been a very good thing:)

[zhauer]

Excited to see him play very well but we got a long season ahead of us. its less about the comparison to Lance right now as it is preparing for the big east. I do think he has what it takes to help lead this team to the NCAA tourney.
Go Cats!

[behrlezt]

Lance has more potential...
Killa has a great shot...


I take the better shooter any day of the week..

[Not Guilty]

-If UC is down 2 points with 10 seconds to go against Villanova, who would you like the ball to be in the hands on this year's team? Who on the 2010-2011 roster has the ability to take a guy one-on-one to create something? I don't think we have anyone (yet). Lance did have the ability to take a guy one-on-one and create something.

When we encounter that situation, we likely aren't going to run an iso for any player on this team, at least not as of now. Instead we will run a set with a lot of different options and then give it to the player who gives us the best chance to score based on how the defense reacts.

[STKohls]

I like most parts of this year's team better than last year's team; however, the one glaring weakness right now on this year's team is this:

-If UC is down 2 points with 10 seconds to go against Villanova, who would you like the ball to be in the hands on this year's team? Who on the 2010-2011 roster has the ability to take a guy one-on-one to create something? I don't think we have anyone (yet). Lance did have the ability to take a guy one-on-one and create something.

I think you raise a great point, but maybe we should be looking at it from a different perspective: If you're Villanova, and you're setting up your defense against UC up 2 with 10 seconds to go, who does your best defender guard?

Do you double Yancy down low knowing that Wright or Kilpatrick or Dixon are lurking at the 3-point line? Do you step out and guard the line knowing that Thomas and Gates can score down lot, hit the mid-range jumpers, or pass out of the blocks? UC can score in a lot of ways, and can vary their offense to suit the situation or take advantage of any defensive weakness. This flexibility could be a strong advantage.

[waterhead]

I agree with the last two posters.

We probably won't have a single go to guy...there will be a few of them which will keep the defense guessing.

The one who gets the most opportunties will probably be SK. He may not be lightning quick but he can handle the rock, is extremely confident, controls his body, good FG %, and can hit free throws if fouled.

[bearcated]

SK is bigger and I feel has a sweeter shot than Deonta. Don't get me wrong. I think Deonta gave all he had, and thank you for that effort. I just think SK has more upside, and is more of a natural shooter.

[BearcatAlum1]

Vaughn was a volume shooter. Fact.

I'm not sure Killa is a volume shooter, hence his ability to score a quiet 10 points.

[MDW79]

A player like SK could be exactly why I think the 4 year player is so much more valuable than the blue chip. My only worry, and it's not a huge one, is that there is not much room left in his game to grow. It's amazing how much he looks to already gets everything. Kid gets back on D, never forces a shot, never looks intimidated.

[Kindog202]

A player like SK could be exactly why I think the 4 year player is so much more valuable than the blue chip. My only worry, and it's not a huge one, is that there is not much room left in his game to grow. It's amazing how much he looks to already gets everything. Kid gets back on D, never forces a shot, never looks intimidated.

SK has a complete, mature offensive game and skill set right now. I don't see anything that is missing on offense from him. Where he has room to grow is defensively and in being consistent with the offensive game on a game to game basis. IMO, the reason why he doesn't start is because his defense can be lacking at times. He brings energy and plays hard defensively but he also gets beat defensively alot as well. Mick feels more comfortable with Rashad's defense. Shoring up the defense and bringing the offense consistently night in, night out are where he needs to improve.

[dp3113]

A player like SK could be exactly why I think the 4 year player is so much more valuable than the blue chip. My only worry, and it's not a huge one, is that there is not much room left in his game to grow. It's amazing how much he looks to already gets everything. Kid gets back on D, never forces a shot, never looks intimidated.

he is a much more inconsistent shooter than he has shown. there is a lot of room for growth in that area. he also doesnt have much of a midrange game currently in terms of a pull up jumper. overall, i think there is definite room for him to improve over the next few years.

i think the concern you are expressing is that he is not a ridiculous athlete or raw by any means, and thus there isnt a lot of untapped natural ability for him to improve. i think this is a valid point. his improvement will come in honing and improving his skills, rather than developing them altogether.

[waterhead]

Mick has said in his presser that he likes subbing to strength rather than weakness. Sounds like someone else I know. I get the feeling SK not starting is more of a gesture to the veterans than anything else. As long as he gets starter minutes (which I think he will continue to) he won't have a problem with it. I have yet to hear MC mention poor D out of SK but maybe he has.

[DMoney1080]

Last year, I thought it was a mistake to RS him, because I thought he brought a team attitude. I was never a LS fan and will continue to not be one. I watched in person too many times to much 1 on 1 where we needed to get the big guys involved. SK brings a much more team attitude and you can see this playing LIKE A TEAM from the very first game. I saw a pick and roll and wondered when the last time I had seen that from a UC team.... This team has no ego's on it, and it shows.

There are so many options to score it's nice that we don't have to have one guy go off for 20 a game and rely on it. SK drops 26 one night and is in single digits the next. The only guy on this team that should be in double digits every night is Yancy. As far as a go to guy, why do you need one? We have plenty of scorers? Use them. We don't need a go to guy in the end? We need a creator in the end to get an open shot for himself or someone else? I can see SK or Dixon doing that as well as yancy.

Sorry, I don't mean to rip LS, but he was never "Born Ready".

[Bearcat Cafe]

No selfish, bad attitude "leaders" on this team. Not sure how much it will translate in terms of Big East wins and losses yet, but it's night and day in terms of effort and attitude compared to the last couple years. Actually have guards who are willing and able to play defense and a real semblance of an offense as opposed to play ground ball.