This team needs an identity

[bearcatn8]

OK - I remain one of Cronin's big defenders at this point. However, one issue that has been troubling me somewhat is that after a season and three games, I am having a hard time figuring out what an ideal Cronin team would look like. Put another way, I don't see an identity emerging in the Cronin coached bearcats yet.

Why does this bother me? When I think about it, most great coaches have an identity (Huggs circa 2002 - tenacious, bruising defense; Pitino - frantic defense and high powered, fast paced offense; Knight - solid, mistake free defense and precision offense; Chaney - zone defense; P. Carrill - back door cuts and wide open threes; Crum/Wooden - high/low game; Roy Williams - throw 5 NBA first round picks on the floor at the same time and let 'em run wild; etc.) The players may change, but year in and year out, you know pretty much what kind of team you are going to be facing.

When I watch the Cats, however, I currently see a team with no coherent offensive strategy (other than firing off ill advised 3 pt. shots) and no consistent defensive scheme. I am hoping (and praying) that this is a product of the fact that Cronin doesn't have his ideal players in the program yet.

Is anyone else worried about this? What do people think an ideal Cronin team would look like?

[Bp4thebest]

I agree. I'm really worried about this! I wish I could say his style was a tinacious defensive team but I don't think he is firey enough! Not yet atleast. I don't think he has an identity yet. Maybe becuase he doesn't have a complete in the respect that he has a full roster of players he had time to recruit if that makes any sense. Maybe he is just trying to find himself still. He is not new to the coaching world by any means but he is new to coaching a competative team at the biggest stage in college basketball. I hope he finds himself and when he does, I hope it's something like Bob. He has the experience of coaching under Bob and Rick and has seen how they work will top notched teams so I hope it helps. I don't know his identity yet either thats a good question that I have not thought of yet. And trust me, I have thought of alot about this team. lol

[Cats4Ever]

I was hoping the foundation was set last year with the now-seniors. I was hoping they would lay the groundwork.

It's tough to tell what we got - and with turnover next year, does this mean we have to wait another 2 years when Vaughn is a senior to see what type of team identity we have?

ugh - that is a lot of losses to endure..........................

[SLMadiCat]

He'll have his identity once he gets his players in. He took whatever he could get in 2006. 2007 was a good recruiting class but he still didn't have time to get in with that class. Not too mention he has had three weeks with them. It will come, but it doesn't happen over night. Next year will be much improved and in two years they will be tough to beat.

[Cats4Ever]

OK - I can wait. But can you say honestly the team last year got better as the year went on?

[jeffto]

If this is any help in defining Mick's style:
His Murray State stats for 3 years:
PPG: 74.5, ASTpg: 16.5, TOpg: 13.1, BLKpg: 4, STLpg: 7.9, FG% - 47%, FGA - 58, 3pt FGA - 20, FoulsPG - 18.9

Opponent FG% - 43%, Opp 3pt FG% -33%

I'm not getting much out of these. Perhaps Tom can?

[SLMadiCat]

OK - I can wait. But can you say honestly the team last year got better as the year went on?

Hard to say as the schedule became much tougher. They did beat some teams they had no business beating. I saw improvement in many areas.

[Bearcat Cafe]

This team needs shooters.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

OK - I can wait. But can you say honestly the team last year got better as the year went on?

Team was up and down. Played its best in December though.

This team is worse than last year.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

If this is any help in defining Mick's style:
His Murray State stats for 3 years:
PPG: 74.5, ASTpg: 16.5, TOpg: 13.1, BLKpg: 4, STLpg: 7.9, FG% - 47%, FGA - 58, 3pt FGA - 20, FoulsPG - 18.9

Opponent FG% - 43%, Opp 3pt FG% -33%

I'm not getting much out of these. Perhaps Tom can?

I don't think you can draw much of conclusion from mid-major level stats. UC is in the bigtime.

[Inchickinkick]

They are playing like a .500 team>

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

They are playing like a .500 team>

That would be an improvement. UC could very easily be 0-3.

[cincycpaw]

They have an identity. A young, inexperienced team with a young inexperienced coach...and it shows.

[jeffto]

They have an identity. A young, inexperienced team with a young inexperienced coach...and it shows.
I don't think inexperienced is fair. His last year at Murray his team lost to defending national champs North Carolina by 4 pts.

1) I think it's more the players than the coach, and
2) I think Mick is trying too hard

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I don't think inexperienced is fair. His last year at Murray his team lost to defending national champs North Carolina by 4 pts.

1) I think it's more the players than the coach, and
2) I think Mick is trying too hard

Inexperienced meaning 5th year as HC.

[cincycpaw]

Inexperienced meaning 5th year as HC.


Yep, I think it is fair, especially since he is coaching in the big east now.

[Big B]

He'll have his identity once he gets his players in. He took whatever he could get in 2006. 2007 was a good recruiting class but he still didn't have time to get in with that class. Not too mention he has had three weeks with them. It will come, but it doesn't happen over night. Next year will be much improved and in two years they will be tough to beat.
I don't think you can say Mick settled for the 2007 recruits, he did a lot of work to get them in here. I think he may have rushed Wilks in, maybe one more year of prep school would have done him wonders. But with Henry not taking care of business, Mick choose to bring him in. There's just alot of different personalities and they just need to come together. The seniors didn't have a bigman to feed it to last year and they need to learn how to get it into Adam and Anthony. We should see a different team in Dec and Jan, who knows if it will be too late or not.

[SLMadiCat]

I don't think you can say Mick settled for the 2007 recruits, he did a lot of work to get them in here. I think he may have rushed Wilks in, maybe one more year of prep school would have done him wonders. But with Henry not taking care of business, Mick choose to bring him in. There's just alot of different personalities and they just need to come together. The seniors didn't have a bigman to feed it to last year and they need to learn how to get it into Adam and Anthony. We should see a different team in Dec and Jan, who knows if it will be too late or not.

I didn't say Mick settled for the 2007 class. I think he took what he could get in 2006. The 2007 class is a pretty good class and a class I see being VERY good in a couple years, but he still didn't have a lot of time to make relationships. I agreed with bringing Wilks in. I think by the second half of the season he will be making pretty good contributions. It is just going to take a while with this many young players.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

I don't think you can say Mick settled for the 2007 recruits, he did a lot of work to get them in here. I think he may have rushed Wilks in, maybe one more year of prep school would have done him wonders. But with Henry not taking care of business, Mick choose to bring him in. There's just alot of different personalities and they just need to come together. The seniors didn't have a bigman to feed it to last year and they need to learn how to get it into Adam and Anthony. We should see a different team in Dec and Jan, who knows if it will be too late or not.

Wilks was part of 2007 HS class originally.

[Bearcat Fan Since 1958]

Yep, I think it is fair, especially since he is coaching in the big east now.

Ed Jucker, Tay Baker, and Gale Catlett had 0 head coaching experience when they started their HC careers at UC. Ditto Tony Yates.

I think it's a red (and black) herring.

[GoCats1994]

The issue with the "lack of offensive identity" has a lot to do with the defenses they faced in the first three games. Namely - I believe they spent 120 minutes facing a 2-3 zone.

I think, over time, they may develop a better inside presence to play "inside-out". However, as of the start of the season - they looked disjointed on this front. I think Adam H did a nice job of jockeying for inside position and demanding the ball (one of the things I was specifically watching for). Although Vaughn is not a great passer within the designed sets. (On the break, he can pass the ball....but he has trouble getting it inside when the defense is set).

Maybe Warren will help them against the zone? Maybe McClain will learn to assert himself and demand the ball. Maybe Vaughn will become a better passer. But the lack of all of these things made it a difficult experience against the zone.

I would expect to see a steady diet of 2-3 zones in the near future until this team proves it can beat it.

[james jr]

I don't think inexperienced is fair. His last year at Murray his team lost to defending national champs North Carolina by 4 pts.

1) I think it's more the players than the coach, and
2) I think Mick is trying too hard

I agree that you cannot call Mick inexperienced at this point. However I am starting to think that Mick may be the problem as much as the players. The team does not seem ready to play against competition that is well below what they will be facing as the season progresses. They also don't finish games well which is a carrover from last year. I am hoping that the team will become more focused and cohesive by the end of the year but if not, I will not be very optimistic about next year irrespective of any new recruits.

[cincycpaw]

Ed Jucker, Tay Baker, and Gale Catlett had 0 head coaching experience when they started their HC careers at UC. Ditto Tony Yates.

I think it's a red (and black) herring.

So, they were all inexperienced. All I'm saying is part of the identity of this team is that they have a coach who has yet to establish his own identity. Thanks neither a good or a bad thing, just a fact. Another hurdle for this group.

[jkwuc89]

Ed Jucker, Tay Baker, and Gale Catlett had 0 head coaching experience when they started their HC careers at UC. Ditto Tony Yates. I think it's a red (and black) herring.

To repeat a phrase that has appeared in many threads on this forum, I really don't see a comparison between Jucker/Baker/Catlett/Yates to Cronin. Completely different eras, different conferences, different rules regarding freshmen, different team compositions when these coaches took over.