I need a different perspective.

[kstatefan]

This is why I'm here.

So when we hire Huggins, 99% of the KSU fanbase was willing to look past his documented but overblown problems with players getting in trouble, players failing to graduate and his DUI.

Why?

In his press conference he stressed how loyal his players view him. How loyal those around him view him and how he expects that back. And how could you argue? The guy stayed at Cincinnati for 16 years. But, that was his one saving grace. You can bash the guy for having some off the court problems, but never bash his loyalty to his players, program, fans.

Now, how the F*** can you defend him? It simply makes no sense. He ripped away the only defense he had. How can some of you UCinn fans still back this guy? HE GAVE US ONE FRIGGIN YEAR!! ONE!! No one, I mean no one imagined he'd leave after one year. Yes, I know it's home but sometimes it's simply not the right time to go home.He had an obligation at Kansas State. He forced Bill Walker into Manhattan (his mom moved to Topeka), he forced Bennett (their parents moved to Topeka) Chris Merriweather turned down Ivy League schlorships to play for Huggins(!!) Ryan Patzwald followed him on his own dime (walk-on) to play in Manhattan. All of those guys must feel like total jackasses. (Apparently Bill Walker was livid....don't believe what Huggins tries to say)

But the one who got hurt the most? Our university president, Jon Wefald. He took an ENORMOUS chance on huggs, he DIDN'T even call Zimpher to talk about the issues he had at UCINN...he simply trusted Huggs when they met. One year later, he's been betrayed...by a man that stresses loyalty as his one saving grace in a career that has little positives off the basketball court.

You MUST see these videos. Our administration was devastated/shocked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIR8h20JGZc


BTW: I love this site. I used it regularly to research recruits like Tyree (which we trusted Huggs with) and etc.. I'm glad you guys changed to a true message board.

[jkwuc89]

kstatefan:

I completely understand your perspective. K-State took somewhat of a gamble hiring Huggins and that gamble should have been worth more than 1 season. And I agree that Huggins can no longer use loyalty as a tool to (1) recruit players and (2) explain himself.

[MikeInClifton]

Depends on the definition of 'loyalty'. I think he has strong loyalty to WV. I'm surprised so many KSU fans are disappointed when his buyout was only $100K. Thats petty cash to these top notch coaches. However, if his buyout was 1 million, he still would have left. If his buyout was 2.5 million (like I heard Beilein's was) I still think he would have left for WV.

He's going home. That warm and fuzzy feeling word that is used to describe your home town. . . your alma mater. . .your mothers arms.

[jkwuc89]

If his ties were so strong to WVU, then his contract should have had a WVU escape clause in it. Or, he should have been up front during the initial negotiations with K-State about his longstanding desire to coach at WVU.

Many coaches have such escape clauses in their contracts to allow them to take certain jobs.

[jon b]

KStatefan,

Let me try a different perspective since that is what you seek. If K State better off now than one year ago? Let's be blunt, very few coaches would have won 23 games this year and finished 4th in the Big 12. If Martin gets the job (I hope he does) I think it will keep some of the stability and K state will be better off than the have been in bball for many years.

My guess is something like this went through Huggins mind: "Last time I did not accept my dream job (He freely admitted when he turned it down last time it was his dream job) and look what loyalty got me. The university through me out on my butt. I know this is not right, but I cannot say no again. I am going home."

I could add more about how he feels bad, but I know that doesn't matter to you and I don't blame you for that. It sucks right now for you the same way it di for 95% of the UC fans 2 Augusts ago. I agree witht he President, it is not the right time, but is it ever? Answer me this: What would have been different if Huggins coached one more year and then accepted the job? Most poeople say tow years on a job before leaving is appropriate. Why? I do not see that he could have left KSU in better shape. He still would not have "finished the job".

I think what you are experiencing is the continued fallout of the loyalty the new (at the time) UC administration treated him with. I freely admit he partly made his own bed here at UC, but a few other finished it for him. He has never and will never forget that and unfortunately a few years later KSU paid a partial price by being caught in the crossfire of it.

I do not totally accept and dismiss this move by him as "ok". As even he said it is not the right time, but it never is, and this is one of the first times he made a move for him after turning down previous moves.

Sorry, but I wish you luck and congratulations that he left the program better off. UC's administration did not give us that chance.

[jon b]

If his ties were so strong to WVU, then his contract should have had a WVU escape clause in it. Or, he should have been up front during the initial negotiations with K-State about his longstanding desire to coach at WVU.

Many coaches have such escape clauses in their contracts to allow them to take certain jobs.

Keith, at the risk of you deleting this post, that might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard a smart person say. Why should Huggins go in and say that? His only $100k buyout was the escape clause. Let's take the KSU admin to task for that. That is their fault. Coaches have escape clauses because of 1, 2, or 3 million dollar buyout clauses. He did not need one.

Also, do you think Huggins was even thinking about leaving for WVU at that time? I seriously doubt while he was negotiating with KSU that he was thinking, "I bet Beilien (sp) is leaving after this year and I will try to get that job, and...." C'mon! Besides, you never let someone else know your cards during a negotiation anyway. I think you are turning so anti-Huggins lately you cannot see straight. :D

It sucks for them. I agree. It sucks how it went down, but no way should Huggins have done any of twhat you said. I know you have changed jobs a few times. What info did you give your potential employer during negotiations? I bet you did not give them much if ANYTHING the could use against you.

[ralph1950]

I feel your pain. It has become obvious over the past couple of years that Bob Huggins is all about Bob Huggins. He spent his year off recruiting players for Bob Huggins U. and ended up sticking it to them by leaving for West Virginia. I have talked to many people about this and one of the prevelent theories on why he did it was the opportunity to return to 5th 3rd Arena and "stick it" to UC President Nancy Zimpher. One thing Bob likes is to be "loved", he expects to return to 5/3 Arena and be wildly cheered. I for one will be booing as loud as I possibly can. Bob did wrong by Kansas State and the players he recruited to Bob Huggins U., he should not be honored for this but dispised.
KState Fan have you read the article in Sports Illustrated last October in the NBA preview issue about Huggins written by Rick Reilly? Reilly explained what Bob is all about in that article, as he stated "buyer beware".
I think it is going to be difficult for Bob to attract top players to WVU. It will be fairly easy to recruit against him, all the rival coach will have to say is "look what he did to Bill Walker, Michael Beaseley, and Kansas State".
Once again, I feel your pain, K-State deserved better.

[mlb]

The only reason that KSU only had a $100K buyout was because they wanted to be able to kick him to the curb for cheap if anything bad happened while at K-State. They decided he was a risk, and cheaped out on the buyout. Therefore they made their own bed in some ways...

[SLMadiCat]

I think either way you slice it, it was a low move on Huggins part. KSU gave Huggins a second chance that very few schools were willing to do and he stabs them in the back. I do think you can blame KSU for a poor contract, but either way, Huggins still took advantage of KSU in every regard.

SLM

[mlb]

No doubt, if I was a K-State fan I'd be pissed as well. If I were their AD or President I'd feel as though Huggins stabbed me in the back. I totally sympathize with you, as I feel that UC's admin stabbed their fans in the back when Huggins was forced out. I cannot blame him for wanting to go home though. It is just too bad that job opened up now instead of 3 or 4 years from now when he could have moved on after completing his job, or at least making a full turn around for K-State.

[Catmandu]

kstatefan:

I completely understand your perspective. K-State took somewhat of a gamble hiring Huggins and that gamble should have been worth more than 1 season. And I agree that Huggins can no longer use loyalty as a tool to (1) recruit players and (2) explain himself.

The answer to this is
There is NO Loyalty to employees or employers anymore, the day of the 40 year employee is gone.

Huggins had been extremely loyal in the past and it got him kicked out to the street.

I believe the decision wasn't easy... BUT he can't make a career decision based on a couple one(or two) and done players, or on a university he worked for for 1 year. I am certain when he took the job at KSU he had evey intention of staying there through his contract, no on knew the WVU job would open. He had already told them no(again look what it got him) an he knew there wouldn't be another chance. It is NO secret he always dreamed of playing there.

Ask yourself this.. is KSU better for having him for a year or not? I think KSU will be in the NCAA next year, still has Bill Walker, Frank Martin, and probably Delonter ****(Which means Beasley), and there is one person you can thank... Bob Huggins. Again, I'm sure it wasn't easy, but in the long run, who wouldn't jump from KSU to their Alma Matta...

It's business not personal.

By the way, In the End Huggins honored 100% of his Contract at KSU. What's wrong with that?

[Catmandu]

I think either way you slice it, it was a low move on Huggins part. KSU gave Huggins a second chance that very few schools were willing to do and he stabs them in the back. I do think you can blame KSU for a poor contract, but either way, Huggins still took advantage of KSU in every regard.

SLM

I don't buy this "Second chance" thing.. you all act as if KSU was the only place that would give him a job, like no one wanted a perenial top 25, ncaa, 2 time national coach of the year... I don't by the second chance thing... Huggins had 3 mill ++++ to sit out another year and wait for the next opening. You all act like no one wanted him, and frankly that wasn't the case. He had been approached by tons of teams, including WVU(But due to his LOYALTY to Belien he declined!!!!!!!!!)

Come on.

[Catmandu]

Keith, at the risk of you deleting this post, that might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard a smart person say. Why should Huggins go in and say that? His only $100k buyout was the escape clause. Let's take the KSU admin to task for that. That is their fault. Coaches have escape clauses because of 1, 2, or 3 million dollar buyout clauses. He did not need one.

Also, do you think Huggins was even thinking about leaving for WVU at that time? I seriously doubt while he was negotiating with KSU that he was thinking, "I bet Beilien (sp) is leaving after this year and I will try to get that job, and...." C'mon! Besides, you never let someone else know your cards during a negotiation anyway. I think you are turning so anti-Huggins lately you cannot see straight. :D

It sucks for them. I agree. It sucks how it went down, but no way should Huggins have done any of twhat you said. I know you have changed jobs a few times. What info did you give your potential employer during negotiations? I bet you did not give them much if ANYTHING the could use against you.


wow jon... bold words.. I agree with you, I'll give you your $25 now! :)

[Catmandu]

I feel your pain. It has become obvious over the past couple of years that Bob Huggins is all about Bob Huggins. He spent his year off recruiting players for Bob Huggins U. and ended up sticking it to them by leaving for West Virginia. I have talked to many people about this and one of the prevelent theories on why he did it was the opportunity to return to 5th 3rd Arena and "stick it" to UC President Nancy Zimpher. One thing Bob likes is to be "loved", he expects to return to 5/3 Arena and be wildly cheered. I for one will be booing as loud as I possibly can. Bob did wrong by Kansas State and the players he recruited to Bob Huggins U., he should not be honored for this but dispised.
KState Fan have you read the article in Sports Illustrated last October in the NBA preview issue about Huggins written by Rick Reilly? Reilly explained what Bob is all about in that article, as he stated "buyer beware".
I think it is going to be difficult for Bob to attract top players to WVU. It will be fairly easy to recruit against him, all the rival coach will have to say is "look what he did to Bill Walker, Michael Beaseley, and Kansas State".
Once again, I feel your pain, K-State deserved better.

LMAO.. right...
let see,
1.)WHO wouldn't keep working on their profession even when they were "off" He knew he was coming back why not keep recruiting... by the way KSU benefitted from his diligent work ethic in this area

2.) The idea that he LEFT KSU to "stick it to Zimpher" is ludicrous. HE left to coach for WVU, it was widely known he wanted to coach WVU, it was widely known he wanted to coach in the Big East. If he also thought it would be fun to play UC more power to him, But I am certain it wasn't anywhere near the TOP of his reasons.

3.) Loyalty to the recruits????? you mean the ones that won't even be at KSU in a year or two? How does he put their needs for two years ahead of his OWN kids needs for the rest of his life? This is a career choice... Who's being selfish in thinking he should sacrafice his life long Dream Job, for a couple of kids who may or may not quit on him and will end up in the NBA making millions no matter what he does?

4.) The Sports illistrated article was a hacthet job, based on one mans opinion, had the untimely move of Belien leaving WVU not happened, none of this would be discussed.

[jkwuc89]

It is no secret that there are coaches out there who have clauses in their contracts about being able to leave for certain jobs. Clearly, Huggins and his agent knew how strongly Huggins felt about WVU. Perhaps that is why the buyout amount was so low. Regardless, right or wrong, college sports especially men's basketball and football is a business. And if a better opportunity comes knocking, coaches have all the freedom and and power to move. As evidenced by recent changes, coaches will move if a better opportunity comes knocking. Unfortunately, players and recruits have almost no power in this regard.

With regards to Huggins in particular, regardless of his affection for WVU, his leaving after just one season leaves a bad taste in my mouth. K-State gave him a golden opportunity to resurrect his career at a school that is deeply passionate about its basketball. And I think K-State fans have every right to be disappointed and angry about this.

[SLMadiCat]

Huggins had been extremely loyal in the past and it got him kicked out to the street.

Loyalty is not what got him kicked out to the street. And why do you keep giving Huggins all this respect for showing loyalty, and then say that Huggins is not at fault because loyalty is dead? Which one is it?

He had been approached by tons of teams, including WVU(But due to his LOYALTY to Belien he declined!!!!!!!!!)

Where did you see this? I didn't see his name popping up for too many schools. If you have a link that proves this, I'll admit that I'm wrong. So you're saying WVU wanted Huggins last year, but he declined because he, for some reason, has loyalty to Belien? And Belien was going to be fired if Huggins accepted? Sorry, that just doesn't make sense.

SLM

[Catmandu]

It is no secret that there are coaches out there who have clauses in their contracts about being able to leave for certain jobs. Clearly, Huggins and his agent knew how strongly Huggins felt about WVU. Perhaps that is why the buyout amount was so low. Regardless, right or wrong, college sports especially men's basketball and football is a business. And if a better opportunity comes knocking, coaches have all the freedom and and power to move. As evidenced by recent changes, coaches will move if a better opportunity comes knocking. Unfortunately, players and recruits have almost no power in this regard.

With regards to Huggins in particular, regardless of his affection for WVU, his leaving after just one season leaves a bad taste in my mouth. K-State gave him a golden opportunity to resurrect his career at a school that is deeply passionate about its basketball. And I think K-State fans have every right to be disappointed and angry about this.

I agree i understand and would also feel angry and dissappointed if I was a KSU fan... however, your post points to the fact that he didn't expect this either, as Jon B and others(myself included) have pointed out, NO ONE expected The WVU coach to leave for Mich (no one knw when Mich to open up either) .. evidence is righ there he didn't write it in.. also with only a $100,000 buy out, why would he write it in? To avoid paying $100,000??? Heck UC paid it FOR him.. (and he still has 2.9Mil of their money to spare)


WVU is not a "golden Opportunity" Better history, better league, his alma matta. I never thought he needed "resurrect his Career? He was a pereenial Top 25 coach with a 14 year NCAA Streak! Everyone acts as if KSU was his only option which is not true.
For someone that doesn't like to have posts about Huggins,.. you sure do help keep the threads going.

[Catmandu]

Loyalty is not what got him kicked out to the street. And why do you keep giving Huggins all this respect for showing loyalty, and then say that Huggins is not at fault because loyalty is dead? Which one is it?



Where did you see this? I didn't see his name popping up for too many schools. If you have a link that proves this, I'll admit that I'm wrong. So you're saying WVU wanted Huggins last year, but he declined because he, for some reason, has loyalty to Belien? And Belien was going to be fired if Huggins accepted? Sorry, that just doesn't make sense.

SLM

1.) He was VERY loyal prior to being burned and two there is NOTHING disloyal about what he did at KSU, he honored his contract 100%

2.) I forget where I learned it, but I don't have to "prove" anything to anyone on a message board... disregard the comment if you don't believe it. The fact is, there are plenty of teams that would have loved to have a perennial top 25, 2 time National Coach of the Year, perennial NCAA participant, coach on a 14 game NCAA Streak... it's downright silly to think otherwise. I believe there are others here that know he was approached by WVU During his job hunt.. they can choose to back this or not. They don't put negotiations like this all over the place which is why you might not have seen "names popping up all over the place"... particularly when there is already a coach there under contract, it's unrealistic to think otherwise

[incroninitrust]

Huggins has been a bad omen to cincy. After all every year he makes the ncaa tourny he doesnt even get past the 2nd round in the ncaa tournament except for a few years. Im glad Huggins is gone and Cronin is here he could be the next MATTA.

[SLMadiCat]

1.) He was VERY loyal prior to being burned and two there is NOTHING disloyal about what he did at KSU, he honored his contract 100%

2.) I forget where I learned it, but I don't have to "prove" anything to anyone on a message board... disregard the comment if you don't believe it. The fact is, there are plenty of teams that would have loved to have a perennial top 25, 2 time National Coach of the Year, perennial NCAA participant, coach on a 14 game NCAA Streak... it's downright silly to think otherwise. I believe there are others here that know he was approached by WVU During his job hunt.. they can choose to back this or not.

1) If that is the case, didn't NZ honor his contract as well? She bought it out same as Huggins did to KSU. I'm sure you don't think NZ was loyal?

2) I know you don't have to prove it, I would have just liked it if you did. Can you at least name me other schools that were interested in Huggins at the time? Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember any. Maybe Wright State. So after Belien took his team to the Sweet 16, they decided to approach Huggins for the job that Belien still occupied? I highly doubt it.

[Catmandu]

1) If that is the case, didn't NZ honor his contract as well? She bought it out same as Huggins did to KSU. I'm sure you don't think NZ was loyal?

2) I know you don't have to prove it, I would have just liked it if you did. Can you at least name me other schools that were interested in Huggins at the time? Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember any. Maybe Wright State. So after Belien took his team to the Sweet 16, they decided to approach Huggins for the job that Belien still occupied? I highly doubt it.

I'm not going to find the list, it was widely reported he had multiple offers,... and agian.. to think he wouldn't with his resume is unrealistic.

[Josh Rexhausen]

Huggins had 3 mill ++++ to sit out another year and wait for the next opening.

He had a heart attack and was back in what, a couple weeks? Bob loves coaching, I'm sure February and March last year were killing him until he got the K-state job.

I agree with the others, Turn WVU down once, maybe they will come back, turn them down twice, it's gone for good.

K-state is definitely better off having hired Huggs, for a year, than not at all, they got money and national attention. Any fans who became fans of the program because he was there, I have no sympathy for, I do feel sorry for the existing fans prior to the announcement of him being the head coach. But you are better off.

And about his loyalty, who really thinks Huggs will leave WVU, his alma mater, his hometown, volantarily? Who thinks he want's to leave ever for any reason? He will keep his life in order to never let that happen, I'm sure he learned his lesson here.

[jon b]

K-State gave him a golden opportunity to resurrect his career at a school that is deeply passionate about its basketball. And I think K-State fans have every right to be disappointed and angry about this.

I don't disagree with that. I'd be pissed if I was a KSU fan. I just see both sides of it.

[jon b]

I'm not going to find the list, it was widely reported he had multiple offers,... and agian.. to think he wouldn't with his resume is unrealistic.

I am not sure I remember the multiple offers. I know there was a group at USF that wanted him but the AD and President were pretty firm with their NO the whole time. There were rumors about Wright State and a few other places of similar quality, but the only Big 6 conference team I remember is KSU. Now, if he did not take that job last year, I do think he would have gotten one of the Big 6 openings this year, so in that respect, I agree that that KSU did not resurrect his career.

[jkwuc89]

For someone that doesn't like to have posts about Huggins,.. you sure do help keep the threads going.

I have never said that I don't want posts about Huggins. I wanted these posts to be put in the proper place. That is one of the main reasons why we went with a web based board. Posts about past Bearcats are now properly categorized and for those who don't want to read them, they can easily ignore them. Same goes for general discussion topics.

Subscribers now have the ability to follow those topics that interest them without having to deal with the noise.

[MicksTheGuy]

Huggins had been extremely loyal in the past and it got him kicked out to the street.


Wrong Huggs DUI got Huggs thrown out on the street. The biggest mistake the admins at UC made was waiting so long to do it. They did the right thing, he did the wrong thing! I'm so sick of people justifing everything for him. How pathetic a society we are these days. The administration was wrong to wait for so long to do it. They made mistakes but ultimatley Huggs did it to Huggs. How would you have felt if Huggs would have killed someone's faimily or a recruit? Would you be defending him then? Why do we have to wait until he actually does this? What he did was sad and anyone that defends him or his actions disgust me as well. Huggs hasn't changed at all. I thought/hoped going to KSU would give him a new perspective on life and change his habits. However, one look at the screaming manic on the sidelines who looks as fat as ever tells me he hasn't. He has only gotten worse from the looks of what he just did to KSU and its fans. Someday KSU fans will realize they are lucky he is gone so quickly after watching what happens in the future at WVU.

[MikeInClifton]

I have never said that I don't want posts about Huggins. I wanted these posts to be put in the proper place. That is one of the main reasons why we went with a web based board. Posts about past Bearcats are now properly categorized and for those who don't want to read them, they can easily ignore them. Same goes for general discussion topics.

Subscribers now have the ability to follow those topics that interest them without having to deal with the noise.

I can back up Keith on this. BearcatNews Email Forum never said no to Huggins-based posts. We simply asked them to go on the 'General' board, which seemed to have about 5 subscribers.

[MikeInClifton]

This is why I'm here. . . .

KStatefan - here is an article (http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/apr/07/keegan_huggins_bashed_unfairly/) from a Kansas based writer that might help.

[Bryan]

I feel your pain. It has become obvious over the past couple of years that Bob Huggins is all about Bob Huggins. He spent his year off recruiting players for Bob Huggins U. and ended up sticking it to them by leaving for West Virginia. I have talked to many people about this and one of the prevelent theories on why he did it was the opportunity to return to 5th 3rd Arena and "stick it" to UC President Nancy Zimpher. One thing Bob likes is to be "loved", he expects to return to 5/3 Arena and be wildly cheered. I for one will be booing as loud as I possibly can. Bob did wrong by Kansas State and the players he recruited to Bob Huggins U., he should not be honored for this but dispised.
KState Fan have you read the article in Sports Illustrated last October in the NBA preview issue about Huggins written by Rick Reilly? Reilly explained what Bob is all about in that article, as he stated "buyer beware".
I think it is going to be difficult for Bob to attract top players to WVU. It will be fairly easy to recruit against him, all the rival coach will have to say is "look what he did to Bill Walker, Michael Beaseley, and Kansas State".
Once again, I feel your pain, K-State deserved better.

Horrors... Bob likes to be liked... what an awful human being:rolleyes: On top of that, he spent his year off preparing for the future... the monster.

I doubt very much that Bob's move to WVU can be used by rival coaches. Bob has ONE alma mater... and he is coaching there now.

I definitely feel for the KSU fan. It's a tough pill to swallow. I hope it works out well, the program appears revitalized and I think Frank Martin could be a good fit there.

[Catmandu]

I can back up Keith on this. BearcatNews Email Forum never said no to Huggins-based posts. We simply asked them to go on the 'General' board, which seemed to have about 5 subscribers.

I missspoke,
second...
I should have said, "someone who doesn't like this type of discussion you sure do help keep the threads going"


also... my posts were in the general board.

Jon, I know multiple people talked to him he did have options and the main point was it wasn't has if he didn't take the KSU job his career was over... which was the main point

MikeinClifton... cool article!

[Bryan]

Huggins has been a bad omen to cincy. After all every year he makes the ncaa tourny he doesnt even get past the 2nd round in the ncaa tournament except for a few years. Im glad Huggins is gone and Cronin is here he could be the next MATTA.

To paraphrase, if Bob Huggins was bad for UC Basketball, I don't want anything good for the program... lol

And your last sentence mad me throw-up a little... you hope Cronin is the Next Matta?!?! eech. My hopes are much higher for Mick!

[Bruce Monnin]

Huggins has been a bad omen to cincy. After all every year he makes the ncaa tourny he doesnt even get past the 2nd round in the ncaa tournament except for a few years. Im glad Huggins is gone and Cronin is here he could be the next MATTA.

When I went to school at UC in Yates last five years, basketball was a joke. How anyone can think Huggins was a bad omen just shows a lack of intelligence and history.

I hope Cronin does well and takes us back to where Huggins had the program and beyond. But to blindly assume it will go there instead of back to where Yates had it is wishful thinking at best.

[kstatefan]

Ugh! Some of you UC fans that are still defending Huggs left and right are making me ill!

As a KSU fan that REALLY REALLY wanted Huggins, I followed last years coaching search left and right. KSU WAS HIS ONLY BCS COACHING OPPORTUNITY. Missouri president passed, Nebraska laughed at the thought, Iowa State didn't think twice about Huggins, Oklahoma job opened after the fact, Indiana would have never hired huggs, Oklahoma state hired sutton's son, WSU hired Bennett's son.

The reason KSU gave him a chance? Our university president TRUSTED huggs. He didn't even call zimpher, he trusted Huggins so much. I feel ill for him...you don't think Zimpher is snickering at our president today?

HE DID NOT HAVE A CLAUSE FOR THE WVU JOB!!! NOT ONE PERSON IN THE KSU ADMINISTRATION WOULD HAVE HAD BELIEVED HE WOULD LEAVE AFTER ONE YEAR.

We all knew the WVU job would open up soon, belien was flirting with other jobs for awhile. But after one year? What a bastard.

Also, June and his daughter didn't want to go. They wanted to stay in Manhattan. This was all about Huggins going home to his drinking buddies. I hope he gets in trouble there.

If anyone comes out good in this deal it's the UC fans. You guys should now support Cronin 100% now that you know that garbage about huggs and loyalty is out the window.


Thanks for giving me a place to vent to a group of fans that dealt with this greatcoach, horrible person for 16 years.

[MikeInClifton]

HE DID NOT HAVE A CLAUSE FOR THE WVU JOB!!! NOT ONE PERSON IN THE KSU ADMINISTRATION WOULD HAVE HAD BELIEVED HE WOULD LEAVE AFTER ONE YEAR.

If he had a buyout for just $100K, he didn't need a specific clause about any college!

Also, June and his daughter didn't want to go.
How could you possibly know this?

[Brian H.]

Wrong Huggs DUI got Huggs thrown out on the street. The biggest mistake the admins at UC made was waiting so long to do it. They did the right thing, he did the wrong thing! I'm so sick of people justifing everything for him. How pathetic a society we are these days. The administration was wrong to wait for so long to do it. They made mistakes but ultimatley Huggs did it to Huggs. How would you have felt if Huggs would have killed someone's faimily or a recruit? Would you be defending him then? Why do we have to wait until he actually does this? What he did was sad and anyone that defends him or his actions disgust me as well. Huggs hasn't changed at all. I thought/hoped going to KSU would give him a new perspective on life and change his habits. However, one look at the screaming manic on the sidelines who looks as fat as ever tells me he hasn't. He has only gotten worse from the looks of what he just did to KSU and its fans. Someday KSU fans will realize they are lucky he is gone so quickly after watching what happens in the future at WVU.

Ok, I couldn't resist. You complain about society and then call another person a manic (I assume you meant maniac) and fat. That's a good example you are setting. We should all aspire to be like you and attack other's for their opinions. Where's Don when we need him for a funny comment?

So does everyone that thinks Huggins is wrong also think Mick was wrong for leaving Murray State? It's the nature of business. If Huggins would have lost 20 games this year fans would be calling for him to be fired. Since he created a winner there is a lot of emotion. He didn't leave for more money, better facilities or a better talent, he left to go home. I would guess a lot of schools would love to have a one year coach that increased attendance, built a winner, set them up for a top recruiting class next year and left a foundation for a top 25 team for the next few years. He even found their next head coach for them. Calm down and enjoy the winning. We that are UC fans hope that we can have the success the K-state should next year.

[mlb]

How could you possibly know this?

From my understanding both June and Jenna were still spending a lot of time in Cincinnati. It seems to me they never liked Manhattan.

[kstatefan]

Comparing Mick leaving MSU for a BCS school and Huggs being given a 2nd chance at KSU and stabbing the entire fanbase/administration in the back is a retarded comparison and could only be done by someone that has been defending a scumbag for 17 years now.

His reputation is shot. That loyalty garbage he spews is out the window.

[bearcatmark]

Ok why are we letting Kstate fans on the Bearcat News Forum these days??? wasn't that one of the major differences.


Huggs took his dream job, just like Cronin took his dream job. It's a very valid comparison. The best comparison is probably Roy Williams.... Who like Huggins could not say no to his dream job a second time. Kansas and UNC are pretty equal programs, much like Kstate and WVU. Huggs had no idea if the opportunity would arise again.


Kstate fans should relax...be happy they have a good up and coming coach in Frank Martin(huggins coaching tree expands)... as they have a top 5 recruiting class. They are in better shape than they have been in decades. They have Huggins to thank for that.

Huggins turned down his best chance at a National title, since Kenyon Martin's leg snapped... he did it to go home. There is no shame in that.

Huggins was loyal to UC to the end, then was kicked to the curb when the administration got image concious. He knows loyalty does not go both ways at all times. It was time for him to go where his heart was. Stop being bitter, and be happy that he put your program on solid footing...ready to be a national player.

[MikeInClifton]

Ok why are we letting Kstate fans on the Bearcat News Forum these days??? wasn't that one of the major differences.

His first post was fine. Last one . . . not so much.

[MikeInClifton]

Comparing Mick leaving MSU for a BCS school and Huggs being given a 2nd chance at KSU and stabbing the entire fanbase/administration in the back is a retarded comparison and could only be done by someone that has been defending a scumbag for 17 years now.

I think if the roles were reversed and a former KState player and magna cum laude with 500+ wins under his belt was leaving WVU after one year to 'go home' to Kansas State, you may feel differently.

[colucat]

When I went to school at UC in Yates last five years, basketball was a joke. How anyone can think Huggins was a bad omen just shows a lack of intelligence and history.

I hope Cronin does well and takes us back to where Huggins had the program and beyond. But to blindly assume it will go there instead of back to where Yates had it is wishful thinking at best.

I hope that Cronin takes us back to where Ed Jucker had the program and then goes beyond!

[cincycpaw]

I feel your pain. It has become obvious over the past couple of years that Bob Huggins is all about Bob Huggins. He spent his year off recruiting players for Bob Huggins U. and ended up sticking it to them by leaving for West Virginia. I have talked to many people about this and one of the prevelent theories on why he did it was the opportunity to return to 5th 3rd Arena and "stick it" to UC President Nancy Zimpher. One thing Bob likes is to be "loved", he expects to return to 5/3 Arena and be wildly cheered. I for one will be booing as loud as I possibly can. Bob did wrong by Kansas State and the players he recruited to Bob Huggins U., he should not be honored for this but dispised.
KState Fan have you read the article in Sports Illustrated last October in the NBA preview issue about Huggins written by Rick Reilly? Reilly explained what Bob is all about in that article, as he stated "buyer beware".
I think it is going to be difficult for Bob to attract top players to WVU. It will be fairly easy to recruit against him, all the rival coach will have to say is "look what he did to Bill Walker, Michael Beaseley, and Kansas State".
Once again, I feel your pain, K-State deserved better.

No one will hear your boos at 5/3rd. I'll certainly be cheering.

The Kansas State situation is very unfortunate. Can you imagine how hard a decision that was? I don't feel bad at all for the admin at Kansas State as his buyout was exactly what they knew it was. I do feel extremely bad for the K-State fans as they lost an incredible coach. And I also feel bad for all the players that went to Manhattan, KS for Huggs. It sucks for them.

If I were in Huggs shoes not sure what I would have done. Personally, I hope it works out great for him...and while I want the Bearcats to beat WV everytime from now until the end of the world, I'll always cheer for Huggs and will always wish for a UC-WV National Championship Game.

[ralph1950]

Dream job? Then why did he not take his dream job 4 years ago with WVU? Yes, he wanted it, but the President of WVU said no. Huggins loyalty to UC is an Urban Legend. Huggins was able to con UC fans for years, I included. Huggins is a great coach, absolutely no doubt about it, and I let all the wins cloud my judgement. While he was at UC, Huggins went after, but did not get because they did not want him, the following jobs: Ohio State twice (when Ayres was fired and when O'Brien was fired), Tennessee when Green was fired, WVU 4 years ago, Miami Heat, LA Clippers, and Cleveland Cavaliers. Bob spent his off year recruiting for Bob Huggins U. when working coaches were unable to contact recruits because of NCAA rules. He talked them into coming to KSU and then abandoned them. Bob owed K-State a tremendous debt, they hired him when no one else would, he wound up at K-State because that was his only offer, if he had a better offer he would have taken it. He burned K-State bad. Bob is loyal only to himself, no one or no University else. He trashed John Loyer's career to save himself, he will not speak to lifelong friend Dan Peter's who went to OSU for double the pay at UC. K-State fan you have every right to be upset.

[Bryan]

While he was at UC, Huggins went after, but did not get because they did not want him, the following jobs: Ohio State twice (when Ayres was fired and when O'Brien was fired), Tennessee when Green was fired, WVU 4 years ago, Miami Heat, LA Clippers, and Cleveland Cavaliers. \

And your source for all this?

[Brian H.]

Speaking in general about big time college sports - Loyalty isn't worth the air it takes to say the word. Every coach, administration, and fan base are only loyal if the wins keep coming, the pay isn't better, and season tickets are sold. Ask Pirtle what loyalty and a squeaky image get you if you don't win. Ask Tubby how loyal a fan base is if it has been a few years since you won the NC. Loyalty didn't keep Donovan at Florida any more than it kept Heath from getting fired at Arkansas. Kstate fans can spit fire and where anti-Huggs t-shirts but that won't keep them from enjoying the successes next year that he built.

[MicksTheGuy]

I think if the roles were reversed and a former KState player and magna cum laude with 500+ wins under his belt was leaving WVU after one year to 'go home' to Kansas State, you may feel differently.


Mike, this is the problem. People love a winner. We loved him while he was here because he was a winner. We ignored the ugly truth. We defended his graduation grades, his bringing in questionable character players, his negative attitude and then his DUI.

We blamed the media for it having something against UC and Huggins. I hit my boiling point with the DUI. Parts of Huggins are great. I think his community involvement, his loyalty (while at cincinnati) and his player developement. However, he had lots of negatives and they were really bad as mentioned in the paragraph above. The man still wants Tyree Evans to be a player on his team. We could list player after player of questionable character Huggs brought in.

This is the first year I can remember of not hearing a lot of issues within our program. The only negative news you can find is that we were 11-19.

The point is we loved Huggs because he was a winner, KSU loved him because he was a winner and WVU will love him because he is a winner. We are wrong for this. He does whatever it takes to win. I for one want to win the right way from now on. I don't want to win the UNLV or the UC of the past way any more.

I trust in Mick!

[MikeInClifton]

Dream job? Then why did he not take his dream job 4 years ago with WVU?

This was already covered (http://forums.bearcatnews.com/showpost.php?p=473&postcount=69).

[bearcatmark]

Mike, this is the problem. People love a winner. We loved him while he was here because he was a winner. We ignored the ugly truth. We defended his graduation grades, his bringing in questionable character players, his negative attitude and then his DUI.

We blamed the media for it having something against UC and Huggins. I hit my boiling point with the DUI. Parts of Huggins are great. I think his community involvement, his loyalty (while at cincinnati) and his player developement. However, he had lots of negatives and they were really bad as mentioned in the paragraph above. The man still wants Tyree Evans to be a player on his team. We could list player after player of questionable character Huggs brought in.

This is the first year I can remember of not hearing a lot of issues within our program. The only negative news you can find is that we were 11-19.
The point is we loved Huggs because he was a winner, KSU loved him because he was a winner and WVU will love him because he is a winner. We are wrong for this. He does whatever it takes to win. I for one want to win the right way from now on. I don't want to win the UNLV or the UC of the past way any more.
I trust in Mick!


Ok first.... I think the only negative was that we went 11-19 is a PRETTY HUGE NEGATIVE... I don't blame Mick, however, generally speaking that was to be expected.

I also do not think Huggins tried to win the wrong way. I think Huggins liked giving kids the opportunity to better themselves as people. The chance he took on a guy like Tony Bobbit really paid off for the kid. I really appreciate that. Huggins has been loyal to Tyree Evans throughout, and wants to give him a chance to grow up and make something of himself. I for one do not mind that. I can remember Huggins suspending guys for missing classes among other things. When kids messed up with the opportunity Huggins gave him he was on their case. The DUI was very unfortunate. I for one really hope he has grown since then. I know many good people who have messed up and had a DUI. It's not excuseable..but it is part of being human. Some people may hate taking chances on kids, what I admired about Huggs was he tried, and when they messed up he was on them.

[SLMadiCat]

Ok first.... I think the only negative was that we went 11-19 is a PRETTY HUGE NEGATIVE... I don't blame Mick, however, generally speaking that was to be expected.

I also do not think Huggins tried to win the wrong way. I think Huggins liked giving kids the opportunity to better themselves as people. The chance he took on a guy like Tony Bobbit really paid off for the kid. I really appreciate that. Huggins has been loyal to Tyree Evans throughout, and wants to give him a chance to grow up and make something of himself. I for one do not mind that. I can remember Huggins suspending guys for missing classes among other things. When kids messed up with the opportunity Huggins gave him he was on their case. The DUI was very unfortunate. I for one really hope he has grown since then. I know many good people who have messed up and had a DUI. It's not excuseable..but it is part of being human. Some people may hate taking chances on kids, what I admired about Huggs was he tried, and when they messed up he was on them.

Mark, if you honestly believe that Huggins took Bobbit, Tyree, etc.. because he wanted to give them a second chance, well then your just naive. Huggins took them because they were the best players he was able to get at the time. That is why he took Whaley. He took a chance on them because he had a difficult time getting the upper echelon players. You really think Huggins would have been this "loyal" to Tyree if he wasn't an incredible basketball player? C'mon, get real.

[bearcatmark]

Ok well honestly...of course Huggins is not going to take chances on guys that cannot play basketball... He is trying to win games!!! However, many many coaches would not even give those kids opportunities to succeed. I think that kind of action is commendable, and he did handle them with great discipline while here. Some of them messed up and they were certainly punished. MANY of them grew up and are leading successful lives. Paint that how you want to paint it, but it is still something I admire greatly.

[SLMadiCat]

Ok well honestly...of course Huggins is not going to take chances on guys that cannot play basketball... He is trying to win games!!! However, many many coaches would not even give those kids opportunities to succeed. I think that kind of action is commendable, and he did handle them with great discipline while here. Some of them messed up and they were certainly punished. MANY of them grew up and are leading successful lives. Paint that how you want to paint it, but it is still something I admire greatly.

I agree, Huggins did a great job with many of the players he took chances on. My point was that, IMO, he took chances on many of the players because he had too in order to field a highly competitive team. If it was between Whaley and some other 6-10 good character, good player type guy, I believe he'd pass on Whaley.

[shaunsimpson]

I have stayed out of this part of the Huggins discussion, but I will say a few things here.

1) Huggins has not had a recent history of loyalty, but he had been loyal in the past. Huggins hired Hill from his good friend Lutz to get a recruit. Many coaches are hired for recruting reasons, but he did this from a good friend. He also then abandoned these guys to go to WVU.

2) Huggins doesn't care. I am sure he thought about how this would look and how disloyal it would be. I am sure that he did some sort of cost/benifit analysis before he took the job and he desided that he would rather spend his remaining days coaching in Morgontown. He knows what Morgantown is and he is fine with it being a little behind in the times.

3) Did anyone lose in this entire situation (and I am leaving Cincinnati out of this since my email knows very well that we have been throught that before):
- K State still has very talented players and has the oppertunity to build on the program
- huggins is at WVU where he wants to be
- Martin is now a head coach
- Hill has a more pronounced position at KSU
- WVU has a good coach that will most likely stay for a while
- The kids that he recruited are left out in the cold, but they are still given the oppertunity to play their one or two years of college ball that they are planning on playing.

The only person who may have lost in this is Bobby Lutz. Not only did he lose out on a top 3 recruit, but he lost him to a guy who isn't coaching the kid.

[bearcatmark]

The kids he recruited have also said they understood Huggins' decision... Beasleys mother still said she considered Huggins a good man, and understands why he made the decision.


I really do not see there being losers in this situation. I think Huggins connection with Lutz is a part of the reason who knew that guy so well, and was willing to take him on.

Huggins learned the hard way that you cannot depend on the same loyalty from your bosses that he showed them. He made the decision he felt was best for himself..but he left Kansas State in amazing shape

[cpawfan]

Frank Martin, Dalonte Hill and Andy Kennedy have received huge raises because of Huggins. If that isn't loyalty than I don't know what is ;)

[ralph1950]

If you really think K-State is going to be better off for Huggins staying the year think again, the recruiting class is going to fall apart. From Beasley

"I haven't talked to (Huggins) yet. He had to do what was best for him, but he still didn't look out for his recruits. He supposedly had the best recruiting class in the nation, but he didn't look out for us."

Beasley said his phone hasn't stopped ringing since the news broke, and also that he has formalized an early list of schools that could be a good fit for him if released from Kansas State.

"I'm really thinking about Memphis right now. N.C. State and Florida State, too," he said.

[cpawfan]

If you really think K-State is going to be better off for Huggins staying the year think again, the recruiting class is going to fall apart. From Beasley

"I haven't talked to (Huggins) yet. He had to do what was best for him, but he still didn't look out for his recruits. He supposedly had the best recruiting class in the nation, but he didn't look out for us."

Beasley said his phone hasn't stopped ringing since the news broke, and also that he has formalized an early list of schools that could be a good fit for him if released from Kansas State.

"I'm really thinking about Memphis right now. N.C. State and Florida State, too," he said.

Nice way to use several day old quotes to support an argument. If you check out any quotes from Beasley's mom after it was announced Martin would be hired, you wouldn't have a point.

[shaunsimpson]

I don't think Beasley will follow Huggins. He sounded upset with him regarless. But after Hill stayed I expect him to stay at KSU.....of course, I don't really know anything about it, but that is my gut.

[ralph1950]

These are not old quotes, Beaseley made them at the Junior World Games on Sunday, after the quotes from his mom. He is going to do every thing he can to get out of K-State. In my opinion, he and his buddy will never play a game for K-State.

[Bearcat_DF]

I understand the bitter emotions from the KSU fans. I would have been bitter if Huggins left after 14 seasons to go to WVU. Still, I think it is helpful to realize that most people do things that are in their best interst. Actually, it is usually considered rational for people to do things in their self interest.

KSU hired Huggins because they determined it was in their best interest.

Huggins recruited players during his off year, because it was in his best interest.

The players who chose to commit to KSU did so because they thought it was in their best interest.

Huggins has chosen to go to WVU because he has determined it is in his best interest (I am not sure I agree with this assessment. Mike DeCoursey has opined that Huggins is unlikely to coach a team as talented as the KSU team will be in 07-08).

KSU has hired Martin and promoted Hill because they think it is in their best interest.

Also, for the record, last year Huggins did not have a better BCS team ready to hire him. (Missouri flirted with the idea but backed off. I think Huggins sought the So. Fla job, but the administration would not go for it. After being in C-USA for so long, I think Huggins was set on being in a power conference, so while Marshall and Wright State were interesting rumors, I do not think Huggins would have taken them.) Who know what Huggins would have done if KSU did not come through. He was somewhat on the clock with his recruiting class and I do not think he really wanted to wait an additional year.

A final point - we should take the one year of recruiting more than it was, the reality is that Huggins had long relationships with these players and that he was lining up a very good class for UC. I think that part of the reason the situation in Clifton heated up was that Huggins was eager to land a great recruiting class and there were others who did not want him to land that recruiting class. (From what I read, Huggins was pretty close to getting verbals from Mayo and Walker, if those verbals had occurred, it would have been a lot harder to get rid of Huggins.)

Go Cats!

DF

[kstatefan]

I don't think Beasley will follow Huggins. He sounded upset with him regarless. But after Hill stayed I expect him to stay at KSU.....of course, I don't really know anything about it, but that is my gut.

From today


"I have talked to Coach (Frank) Martin already about the whole situation," Beasley said. "I think that is real good that they hired him. He knows the system and will keep things very similar there at Kansas State.

"I've talked to him a little bit about me playing and the style of offense that he will want to run. It sounds good. He talked to me about me being a part of what is going on at Kansas State. Hopefully he can take us a long ways. I am all set to come to Kansas State."

Beasley was also happy to have his longtime friend and former AAU coach Dalonte Hill retained as associate head coach for the Wildcats.

"I'm happy to have Dalonte staying there, too," he said. "That was big."

[cpawfan]

These are not old quotes, Beaseley made them at the Junior World Games on Sunday, after the quotes from his mom. He is going to do every thing he can to get out of K-State. In my opinion, he and his buddy will never play a game for K-State.

You don't know what you are talking about.

1) Those quotes are from the Nike Hoops Summit, not the Junior World Games

2) The game was on Saturday, not on Sunday

3) Those quotes were absolutely made before the most recent ones by his mom.

You do get half a point of credit for the fact that they were made after some quotes from his mom, but those are absolutely not the most recent quotes on the matter.

[ralph1950]

Cool on Beaseley, I hope he does play his year at K-State, although I think it is still a far way from being reality.

[Catmandu]

Mike, this is the problem. People love a winner. We loved him while he was here because he was a winner. We ignored the ugly truth. We defended his graduation grades, his bringing in questionable character players, his negative attitude and then his DUI.

We blamed the media for it having something against UC and Huggins. I hit my boiling point with the DUI. Parts of Huggins are great. I think his community involvement, his loyalty (while at cincinnati) and his player developement. However, he had lots of negatives and they were really bad as mentioned in the paragraph above. The man still wants Tyree Evans to be a player on his team. We could list player after player of questionable character Huggs brought in.

This is the first year I can remember of not hearing a lot of issues within our program. The only negative news you can find is that we were 11-19.

The point is we loved Huggs because he was a winner, KSU loved him because he was a winner and WVU will love him because he is a winner. We are wrong for this. He does whatever it takes to win. I for one want to win the right way from now on. I don't want to win the UNLV or the UC of the past way any more.

I trust in Mick!

I don't see him wanting to give Tyree evans a chance as a bad thing. I see it as a good thing, he's always been loyal and here is another example. A guy gets accused of things he didn't do, so the reduce the charges, he pleas out and you want to send him to the street... I don't know how some people can live with themselves.

[Catmandu]

1) If that is the case, didn't NZ honor his contract as well? She bought it out same as Huggins did to KSU. I'm sure you don't think NZ was loyal?

2) I know you don't have to prove it, I would have just liked it if you did. Can you at least name me other schools that were interested in Huggins at the time? Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember any. Maybe Wright State. So after Belien took his team to the Sweet 16, they decided to approach Huggins for the job that Belien still occupied? I highly doubt it.

1.) NO, she forced him to resign. if he didn't except it he would have been fired.

2.) West Virginia, but Huggs didn't want to "unseat" a coach. You know, he's loyal like that.

[jkwuc89]

Beilein was the WVU coach at the time of Huggins' departure. And based on this $2.5 million buyout clause, it sounded like WVU wanted to keep him. So, I doubt very much that WVU was prepared to dump Beilein when Huggins left UC.

[Catmandu]

Beilein was the WVU coach at the time of Huggins' departure. And based on this $2.5 million buyout clause, it sounded like WVU wanted to keep him. So, I doubt very much that WVU was prepared to dump Beilein when Huggins left UC.

whatever believe what you want.

[Josh Rexhausen]

I have no leagl background, but just because the Buyout is $2.5 mil for Beline to leave, doesn't mean it was $2.5 mil for the School to get rid of him does it?

[Catmandu]

I have no leagl background, but just because the Buyout is $2.5 mil for Beline to leave, doesn't mean it was $2.5 mil for the School to get rid of him does it?

not necessarily. they could be an "at will" state, they could have a clause, they could "find a reason for cause" and they may not have written it that way, no one knows unless they read the contract... but OBVIOUSLY Beliene(sp) doesn't think he has to pay it... so why would WVU....

[jon b]

whatever believe what you want.

Why was he willing to unseat the USF coach, but not the WVU coach? He sent feelers to USF and some of their boosters then started that campaign. It does not make sense that he was "loyal" to Belien (sp) and not McCollum.

[richard k.]

I realize this is off topic - but most of this thread seems to be off topic with respect to UC athletics - so talking about other coaches - why would Bobby Lutz want to leave Charlotte to go to South Alabama? Wouldn't that be a step in the wrong direction?

[ralph1950]

While highly unlikely the crazy situation at WVU could have Huggins out of a job. Michigan is not going to pay the $2.5 million buyout, Beilien has to pay it himself and he supposedly does not have the money and has hired an attorney to negotiate it downward. If he is unsuccessful at negotiating it downward what happens then? It has been years since my business law classes at UC and I have no clue. If Belein does not have the $2.5 million does he come back to fulfill his contract? Does WVU then have to buy him out? Is Huggins then out of a job? It certainly is a crazy situation.

[shaunsimpson]

I don't have a law degree, but I imaginet hat Beline is gone no matter what. WVU hiring Huggins has put them in a position where they have to keep him. I think that Beilien's actions and atempts to go to Michigan give them a right to let him go due to conduct detrimental to the team. I imagine that the buyout will be negotiated down.