ND signs deal wth Orange Bowl

Lobot · 07-05-2012, 12:31 AM

@Mengus22 Mark Ennis reports that ND has signed a tie-in with the OB. This would block a BE team from taking that opening. Ennis makes the point that ND no longer has any benefit to the BE and they should essentially kick them to the curb.

IMO: They have one foot out the door. Embarrass them. Kick them out and to **** with the exit fee.

BearCatMarcher · 07-05-2012, 01:09 AM

Holy crap. Hate, rage.

CaptainProbasco · 07-05-2012, 06:55 AM

What will kicking them out accomplish, other than making MSG more likely to boot the Big East to the curb in favor of the ACC tournament?

It won't hurt ND as much as you might think; the Big 12 or A-10 would snap them up in a heartbeat for a non-fb membership.

Ran513 · 07-05-2012, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainProbasco

What will kicking them out accomplish, other than making MSG more likely to boot the Big East to the curb in favor of the ACC tournament?

It won't hurt ND as much as you might think; the Big 12 or A-10 would snap them up in a heartbeat for a non-fb membership.

Why would msg kick the big east to the curb over notre dame?

RedRocker · 07-05-2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobot

@Mengus22 Mark Ennis reports that ND has signed a tie-in with the OB. This would block a BE team from taking that opening. Ennis makes the point that ND no longer has any benefit to the BE and they should essentially kick them to the curb.

IMO: They have one foot out the door. Embarrass them. Kick them out and to **** with the exit fee.

Agreed. Boot them now. This is a treasonous act by a non-football league member. This action hurts the entire league.

ND football has been irrelevant for 20+ years and counting. Enjoy irrelevancy OB.

GoCats1994 · 07-05-2012, 10:38 AM

I think it is very difficult to argue that ND football is irrelevant when 950K people saw them play in person last year.

Bowl games, including the Orange Bowl, have never been about getting the best teams on the field. The goal of each bowl's organizing committee is to draw the largest attendance possible. The OB would be crazy to not negotiate with ND if given the chance. Simply put...ND draws a crowd.

1977 BearCat · 07-05-2012, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobot

@Mengus22 Mark Ennis reports that ND has signed a tie-in with the OB. This would block a BE team from taking that opening. Ennis makes the point that ND no longer has any benefit to the BE and they should essentially kick them to the curb.

IMO: They have one foot out the door. Embarrass them. Kick them out and to **** with the exit fee.

I can't find any other outlet reporting that.

GoUC11 · 07-05-2012, 10:47 AM

This level of damage this does to the Big East largely depends on the terms of the deal. If this deal only requires ND to win 9 games, and be ranked in the Top 25...then yes, everyone else is screwed.

What I (hopefully) foresee is an arrangement where the BE has some sort of agreement with the Orange Bowl that is similar to the Champs Sports Bowl.

On the Orange Bowl's end I'm not sure how great of an image move that is. ND hasn't been relevant in terms of truly competing in decades. If they were to take a 9-3 ND team over a 10-2, 11-1, or undefeated Big East team I think they would take a huge hit standpoint on a national level.

Yes, ND brings $$$$, which is what its all about. But it doesn't really bring credibility at this point.

I don't think this is a death sentence for the BE yet, but isn't good either. Apparently the BE front office is working out a variety of arrangements for the BE Champion due to our Coast-Coast presence.

Personally, the OB is foolish not to have some sort of inclusion for the Big East. The best Big East team in the past (with the exception of the UConn year) would beat out any 3rd or 4th best Big Ten Tea. The OB settling for any other other conferences left overs would also be a further image hit as well.

CaptainProbasco · 07-05-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ran513

Why would msg kick the big east to the curb over notre dame?

Because the schools that currently make Big East basketball a big draw in Manhattan are, in order: St. John's, Syracuse, Notre Dame, and UConn. To a lesser extent, Rutgers, Louisville, UC, Villanova, Georgetown, and Memphis will also draw attention, but they aren't top-level draws and are easily replaced. A lineup of Syracuse, Duke, and North Carolina is more attractive to New Yorkers than the Big East without Notre Dame (having BC, Maryland, Miami, and Pitt doesn't hurt either).

Going forward, the ACC is arguably more attractive than the Big East with Notre Dame, but if you take ND out of the equation it's practically a no brainer for them.

CaptainProbasco · 07-05-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoUC11

This level of damage this does to the Big East largely depends on the terms of the deal. If this deal only requires ND to win 9 games, and be ranked in the Top 25...then yes, everyone else is screwed.

What I (hopefully) foresee is an arrangement where the BE has some sort of agreement with the Orange Bowl that is similar to the Champs Sports Bowl.

On the Orange Bowl's end I'm not sure how great of an image move that is. ND hasn't been relevant in terms of truly competing in decades. If they were to take a 9-3 ND team over a 10-2, 11-1, or undefeated Big East team I think they would take a huge hit standpoint on a national level.

Yes, ND brings $$$$, which is what its all about. But it doesn't really bring credibility at this point.

I don't think this is a death sentence for the BE yet, but isn't good either. Apparently the BE front office is working out a variety of arrangements for the BE Champion due to our Coast-Coast presence.

Personally, the OB is foolish not to have some sort of inclusion for the Big East. The best Big East team in the past (with the exception of the UConn year) would beat out any 3rd or 4th best Big Ten Tea. The OB settling for any other other conferences left overs would also be a further image hit as well.

Completely agree with this.

OCASCM07 · 07-05-2012, 12:01 PM

Why is no one else anywhere reporting this? I've seen nothing on any credible news outlet that this is the deal.

Ran513 · 07-05-2012, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainProbasco

Because the schools that currently make Big East basketball a big draw in Manhattan are, in order: St. John's, Syracuse, Notre Dame, and UConn. To a lesser extent, Rutgers, Louisville, UC, Villanova, Georgetown, and Memphis will also draw attention, but they aren't top-level draws and are easily replaced. A lineup of Syracuse, Duke, and North Carolina is more attractive to New Yorkers than the Big East without Notre Dame (having BC, Maryland, Miami, and Pitt doesn't hurt either).

Going forward, the ACC is arguably more attractive than the Big East with Notre Dame, but if you take ND out of the equation it's practically a no brainer for them.

I understand what your saying, and I somewhat agree with your examples, but I don't think that they would abandon the BEast like that. Granted a lot of that thought is me not wanting to see that happen, its just hard for me to fathom the tourney not being in New York. Do you know if ND is a founding member?

Lobot · 07-05-2012, 06:02 PM

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/po...ange-bowl-ties

Warning: Joe Tessitore and Andre Ware appear in this video.

swilsonsp4 · 07-05-2012, 08:16 PM

The link below doesn't state that ND has a spot in the OB locked up, but does suggest that ND could be placed in that game once every four years, provided they have at least eight (count 'em, 8) wins.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...fb#articleFull

shadyo · 07-06-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoUC11

This level of damage this does to the Big East largely depends on the terms of the deal. If this deal only requires ND to win 9 games, and be ranked in the Top 25...then yes, everyone else is screwed.

What I (hopefully) foresee is an arrangement where the BE has some sort of agreement with the Orange Bowl that is similar to the Champs Sports Bowl.

On the Orange Bowl's end I'm not sure how great of an image move that is. ND hasn't been relevant in terms of truly competing in decades. If they were to take a 9-3 ND team over a 10-2, 11-1, or undefeated Big East team I think they would take a huge hit standpoint on a national level.

Yes, ND brings $$$$, which is what its all about. But it doesn't really bring credibility at this point.

I don't think this is a death sentence for the BE yet, but isn't good either. Apparently the BE front office is working out a variety of arrangements for the BE Champion due to our Coast-Coast presence.

Personally, the OB is foolish not to have some sort of inclusion for the Big East. The best Big East team in the past (with the exception of the UConn year) would beat out any 3rd or 4th best Big Ten Tea. The OB settling for any other other conferences left overs would also be a further image hit as well.

From a business standpoint this is a brilliant move. ND won't make the 4 team playoff and what bowl wouldn't want to have ND locked up for every year? Remember bowls aren't about football they're about money.

cincycpaw · 07-06-2012, 09:34 AM

I'm increasingly frustrated with NCAA football. It actually ruins watching the "big 4" conference games for me at times.

If you are so much better than everyone else, prove it on the field, not in a meeting room with really no representation for anyone other than yourselves.

The NCAA tournament may not reward the regular season enough, but at least it rewards the fans and allows access to everyone.

GoCats1994 · 07-06-2012, 11:13 AM

Good teams are seldom rewarded or given credibility in college football. Rather, good programs are given the credibility.

If Kentucky, Washington, Duke, Iowa State, or Northwestern went 10-2 or 11-1 this coming season, people would not believe what they were seeing either. It would take a few seasons of sustained success before the voters would respond.

Similarly, UC would not have made it as high as 3rd in the BCS standings in 2009 had it not been for their good season in 2008.

If UC continues to win, good things will happen. And we need to avoid another clunker season like we had in 2010. Patience...

1977 BearCat · 07-06-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoCats1994

Good teams are seldom rewarded or given credibility in college football. Rather, good programs are given the credibility.

If Kentucky, Washington, Duke, Iowa State, or Northwestern went 10-2 or 11-1 this coming season, people would not believe what they were seeing either. It would take a few seasons of sustained success before the voters would respond.

Similarly, UC would not have made it as high as 3rd in the BCS standings in 2009 had it not been for their good season in 2008.

If UC continues to win, good things will happen. And we need to avoid another clunker season like we had in 2010. Patience...

I wish I was as confident. I think we will continue to have good teams but a big part of the currently developing scam is "strength of schedule." I think it will be very difficult to get any of the "Big 4" plus acc to schedule us anywhere and almost impossible to get them in Cincy. Then, when we get ignored, it will be because our "strength of schedule" was inferior.

cincycpaw · 07-06-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1977 BearCat

I wish I was as confident. I think we will continue to have good teams but a big part of the currently developing scam is "strength of schedule." I think it will be very difficult to get any of the "Big 4" plus acc to schedule us anywhere and almost impossible to get them in Cincy. Then, when we get ignored, it will be because our "strength of schedule" was inferior.

Exactly. They've somehow managed to make it less inclusive and they've used the media to convince college football fans. It's crazy.

DMoney1080 · 07-06-2012, 04:22 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if the big 4 seceded from the NCAA in the near future. Honestly, that is where this headed for football. The problem is that the big schools have the fan base to support such a measure - at least for the time being.

What could happen is what I think a lot of college football neutral or fans from the 2nd and 3rd tier programs (and yes, we are 2nd tier, because if we are not sitting at the adult table, we are sitting at the kiddie table), is that they are getting fed up with the ESPN/ABC bias and looking elsewhere. I think what we will find is a division between the big power conferences and the have nots. The tipping point will be the ACC - it's too strong in Basketball to be ignored and it's past for football - like Miami and FSU, are reasons why it's not on life support like the BE. If the ACC is left out, then I could see the this tipping into a lawsuit between the have and have-nots. It's going to be interesting in 2014, there is no question.

As for ND, kick them out. Why on earth would you keep them in the league. Look ND can go anywhere, let them. Say thanks but no thanks. The problem sometimes is that you have to kick the bully to the curb. Do you think ND brings that much $$$ to the BE in other sports - I would doubt it. I think if you do it - there are two outcomes - 1.) you cause a final realignment where the superconferences are born, or 2.) ND realizes what it needs for it's athletics, and we leverage ND to build out a better FB contract for the entire BE. Let ND keep most of it, but leverage their relationship to put us on NBC Sports. At some point, you cannot worry about it. You have to move forward. If I was the BE commissioner, you threaten ND to commit to FB or move out of the league. It's that simple, either ND responds by leaving for the B12 or ACC or they realize that in other league, they are not as likely to have the say that they have with the BE.

I don't think they would want to give up their independent football contract and share the wealth. Who knows maybe they will, but I think you have to put it out there and force a decision. Who knows, maybe with the formation of the superconferences, we get picked up by the ACC or B12. Or ND joins the BE, and the BE becomes relevant again.

07-05-2012, 12:31 AM	#1
Lobot Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Coppell TX	ND signs deal wth Orange Bowl @Mengus22 Mark Ennis reports that ND has signed a tie-in with the OB. This would block a BE team from taking that opening. Ennis makes the point that ND no longer has any benefit to the BE and they should essentially kick them to the curb. IMO: They have one foot out the door. Embarrass them. Kick them out and to ** with the exit fee. __________________ Brent Wyrick** 92 Final Four Front Row

07-05-2012, 06:55 AM	#3
CaptainProbasco Distinguished Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: West Lafayette, IN	What will kicking them out accomplish, other than making MSG more likely to boot the Big East to the curb in favor of the ACC tournament? It won't hurt ND as much as you might think; the Big 12 or A-10 would snap them up in a heartbeat for a non-fb membership. __________________ UC MBA '08 Purdue '15

07-05-2012, 12:01 PM	#11
OCASCM07 Member Join Date: Jan 2011	Why is no one else anywhere reporting this? I've seen nothing on any credible news outlet that this is the deal. __________________ Walter Merritt "If you're the fan of a team then you should support that program no matter how you feel about who is coaching them. Because if I'm not doing my job I will be gone but the program will still be there." - Mick Cronin

07-05-2012, 06:02 PM	#13
Lobot Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Coppell TX	http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/po...ange-bowl-ties Warning: Joe Tessitore and Andre Ware appear in this video. __________________ Brent Wyrick 92 Final Four Front Row

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07-05-2012, 01:09 AM	#2
BearCatMarcher Veteran Join Date: Dec 2010	Holy crap. Hate, rage.

07-05-2012, 10:38 AM	#6
GoCats1994 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2007	I think it is very difficult to argue that ND football is irrelevant when 950K people saw them play in person last year. Bowl games, including the Orange Bowl, have never been about getting the best teams on the field. The goal of each bowl's organizing committee is to draw the largest attendance possible. The OB would be crazy to not negotiate with ND if given the chance. Simply put...ND draws a crowd.

07-05-2012, 10:47 AM	#8
GoUC11 Member Join Date: Oct 2010	This level of damage this does to the Big East largely depends on the terms of the deal. If this deal only requires ND to win 9 games, and be ranked in the Top 25...then yes, everyone else is screwed. What I (hopefully) foresee is an arrangement where the BE has some sort of agreement with the Orange Bowl that is similar to the Champs Sports Bowl. On the Orange Bowl's end I'm not sure how great of an image move that is. ND hasn't been relevant in terms of truly competing in decades. If they were to take a 9-3 ND team over a 10-2, 11-1, or undefeated Big East team I think they would take a huge hit standpoint on a national level. Yes, ND brings $$$$, which is what its all about. But it doesn't really bring credibility at this point. I don't think this is a death sentence for the BE yet, but isn't good either. Apparently the BE front office is working out a variety of arrangements for the BE Champion due to our Coast-Coast presence. Personally, the OB is foolish not to have some sort of inclusion for the Big East. The best Big East team in the past (with the exception of the UConn year) would beat out any 3rd or 4th best Big Ten Tea. The OB settling for any other other conferences left overs would also be a further image hit as well.

07-05-2012, 08:16 PM	#14
swilsonsp4 Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Batavia, OH	The link below doesn't state that ND has a spot in the OB locked up, but does suggest that ND could be placed in that game once every four years, provided they have at least eight (count 'em, 8) wins. http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...fb#articleFull

07-06-2012, 09:34 AM	#16
cincycpaw Veteran Join Date: Apr 2007	I'm increasingly frustrated with NCAA football. It actually ruins watching the "big 4" conference games for me at times. If you are so much better than everyone else, prove it on the field, not in a meeting room with really no representation for anyone other than yourselves. The NCAA tournament may not reward the regular season enough, but at least it rewards the fans and allows access to everyone.

07-06-2012, 11:13 AM	#17
GoCats1994 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2007	Good teams are seldom rewarded or given credibility in college football. Rather, good programs are given the credibility. If Kentucky, Washington, Duke, Iowa State, or Northwestern went 10-2 or 11-1 this coming season, people would not believe what they were seeing either. It would take a few seasons of sustained success before the voters would respond. Similarly, UC would not have made it as high as 3rd in the BCS standings in 2009 had it not been for their good season in 2008. If UC continues to win, good things will happen. And we need to avoid another clunker season like we had in 2010. Patience...

07-06-2012, 04:22 PM	#20
DMoney1080 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Cincinnati, OH	I wouldn't be surprised if the big 4 seceded from the NCAA in the near future. Honestly, that is where this headed for football. The problem is that the big schools have the fan base to support such a measure - at least for the time being. What could happen is what I think a lot of college football neutral or fans from the 2nd and 3rd tier programs (and yes, we are 2nd tier, because if we are not sitting at the adult table, we are sitting at the kiddie table), is that they are getting fed up with the ESPN/ABC bias and looking elsewhere. I think what we will find is a division between the big power conferences and the have nots. The tipping point will be the ACC - it's too strong in Basketball to be ignored and it's past for football - like Miami and FSU, are reasons why it's not on life support like the BE. If the ACC is left out, then I could see the this tipping into a lawsuit between the have and have-nots. It's going to be interesting in 2014, there is no question. As for ND, kick them out. Why on earth would you keep them in the league. Look ND can go anywhere, let them. Say thanks but no thanks. The problem sometimes is that you have to kick the bully to the curb. Do you think ND brings that much $$$ to the BE in other sports - I would doubt it. I think if you do it - there are two outcomes - 1.) you cause a final realignment where the superconferences are born, or 2.) ND realizes what it needs for it's athletics, and we leverage ND to build out a better FB contract for the entire BE. Let ND keep most of it, but leverage their relationship to put us on NBC Sports. At some point, you cannot worry about it. You have to move forward. If I was the BE commissioner, you threaten ND to commit to FB or move out of the league. It's that simple, either ND responds by leaving for the B12 or ACC or they realize that in other league, they are not as likely to have the say that they have with the BE. I don't think they would want to give up their independent football contract and share the wealth. Who knows maybe they will, but I think you have to put it out there and force a decision. Who knows, maybe with the formation of the superconferences, we get picked up by the ACC or B12. Or ND joins the BE, and the BE becomes relevant again.